Volt Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

Copy pasting myself:

Volt can easily be so much more mobile now while still keeping his previous traits of stop, position, protect, kill, but the Riot shield improves where he lacked, though the shield does not switch back to Primary weapon when dropped, which causes additional itches if you want to conserve Secondary ammo to only use with the shield. Concept is good, execution is good, and not changing to primary when dropping is my only gripe.

Discharge seems buggy, enemies some times are affected and the next second they start moving while keeping the energy visual effect on them. Other times they stay in place but doesn't suffer or deal damage. Due to Volt needing alll stats, he kinda of balances himself, as Discharge, when not being buggy, seems quite a powerful ability, so you have to give up on something to make it good at something else, rather than good at everything, I like that (well, usually I don't, but in Volt's case it still works fine if you don't increase all stats, while in other frames they almost entirely lose abilities when doing so).

 

Adding this though.

Pick up shield prompt doesn't go away when aiming, this is somewhat annoying, more if you are snuggling a tight place and can't move to the sides.

Pic showing that:

 

Good job on the new shield with that "cup of water" effect (I don't know my science terms, but that's a reliable description!).

[PsiWarp]

- Shock sound effect is nice, less shocking to the ears and has a more electrifying feel.

- Speed with reload speed buff is pretty dandy. Although I wish I could see an indicator of where the hastened coil is left at, perhaps even let me waypoint it so teammates can see it's location at a glance.

- Electric Shield visuals are awesome! I like that when charged by Shock, a border of electricity appears. My gripe is that the Shock enhanced damage doesn't appear to proc Electric stun, which I think it ought to for being an electric fence. I only wish that the riot shield pick up button is bound to a different key, so if I need to deploy shields when reviving an ally I don't accidentally interact with the shields instead.

- Discharge seems like a good power. I only hope it can be made castable while midair like Overload used to.

[Inmemoratus]

Problems with new Volt.

- Limit of 4 shields. There was no gameplay reason to put this limit on him. It just makes certain scenarios more frustrating such as when specific placement of a shield is difficult and takes more than one try.

- Can't place new shields while carrying a shield. Along with the limit on weapons while carrying, this makes me never want to use the new feature. It's too limiting on my actions. There's more incentive to just drop a new shield whenever I move to a new position.

The new feature isn't worth what we lost. It's merely a novelty compared to the functionality and flexibility it replaces.

[Yazeth]

Although Electric Shield synergies with Shock now, it's slow debuff and energy drain upon movement makes it counter-intuitive with Speed. I feel that the slow debuff should be removed and the energy drain decreased.

[Aquasurge]

i've just quickly tested the discharge ult in a 20 min t3 survival using efficiency as a dump stat.

here are some changes i would like to point out that may make discharge better:

1. tesla coils should be immune to all forms of cc for the remaining duration. i've noticed cc from like wyrm's crowd dispersion can knock enemies down when it was said that Discharge is a form of hard cc.
2. enemies within the tesla coil's range for the first time should be knocked back and knockdowned with reduced accuracy on volt and all allies (i was tempted to say give a radiation proc but that was too op). its annoying that enemies can shoot at you - a very big complaint that has been around for a long time.
3. if volt is in the air, he creates a storm cloud above him which spreads out  in a ring and strikes enemies with lightning, turning them into tesla coils. you should be force to be on the ground after all, lightning can travel in any direction it wants to.
4. damage should increase for every enemy that enters discharge's initial cast range (oh and buff the range too please, it's to small).  it only insta kills at lvl 25 with the max passive dmg bonus. dmg fall of should start at lvl 60-70.

on another note, if all his abilities were was cheaper to use and could spam cast constantly, then volt may actually be great in terms of modding to build. this would be very useful, especially for negative efficiency builds - the only reasonable option I can see for volt's future. which will help - heaps. after all, volt tends to use a lot of energy then he gains as a caster; so much so infact, i feel you are pretty much required to have an EV trin along with you or use zenurik.

to solve these energy consumption problems volt has i propose the following:

-on that note i propose shock should get the combo counter treatment and scales off secondary mods (combo multiplier increases stun). buff stun to 3 seconds and/or is affected by duration. the stun should interrupt any animation the enemy is performing like ground pounds.

-speed costs 15-20 energy and the pick up should drop near allies and not dropped by volt. (would be cool if speed created after images)

-ES should only have the reduction in movement speed that goes to 1.00 which decreases with power strength. (after a buff to his sprint speed to 1.1) remove the energy drain. reduced casting cost to 30 energy 15 for riot shield.

-discharge reduced cost to 90 energy considering it is an ult.

these changes alone should solve about 45-75% of volt's problems

Edited May 28, 2016 by Aquasurge
I am a stromrider! (aka volt main)

[climatiseur]

I found out cerata (one of the thrown melee) cannot goes through his electric shield ability. It will bounce away as if it hits a wall.

Can others confirm it is a bug for all the thrown melees?

[Horlokx]

Hello, I have not completely read the megathread but has anyone noticed that Volt's speed ability is also delayed like half a second when you click?

[Kyrak_Drakhar]

2 minutes ago, Horlokx said:

Hello, I have not completely read the megathread but has anyone noticed that Volt's speed ability is also delayed like half a second when you click?

Yes, i and a couple of others have noticed this also.

[Aquasurge]

i have also notice his passive works in the dojo.

[weezedog]

When dropping your shield you do not automatically switch back to your primary like when dropping a datamass/powercore. That's a bug that needs fixed.

Also the timer on the shield needs to stop when you pick it up. Having a duration and an energy per second power cost while moving is like double charging for the shield. At base efficiency you have to pay 75 to drop the shield, then a bunch of energy to move it and that is just too expensive.

[Cytobel]

Okay, so here's what I'm thinking with a re-rework for a Warframe with no War in it anymore:

Passive: The key here is to remove it's ability to discharge on anything EXCEPT for Melee attacks, Shock, and (please dear God rename it) Discharge.  The worst part of the move to a damage boost over a power Strength boost is that a Strength boost would WORK with Speed, making Speed viable even in low-strength builds.

Shock: I like that this is a "keystone" ability; that's great.  I wonder if we could get some knockdown chance there, because Volt's toolkit NEEDS this BADLY now.

Speed: Is dead.  If it weren't based on Power Strength then I'd probably feel better here, but it's currently worthless if you're building for his other moves.

Electric Shield:  The part where we can carry this seems good, but I will NEVER USE THIS. It costs DRASTICALLY too much, making it more worth my time to just recast.  Also, what's up with only having 4 ES?  The synergy with Shock is without meaning if we can't drop these landmines where we need, and still have others to protect againsto incoming fire.

Overload (Because I will be DAMNED if I'm talking about Volt's "Discharge"):  Alright, here's the problem:  Now we need a grouping utility for Volt.  Worse, we can't survive groups of enemies before they've coalesced into a pack ripe to catch Discharge, and the limits on ES casts mean we can't even rely on out "defensive skill".  The cherry on this mud pie is the fact that air-casts are locked, so floor textures keep preventing me from casting it.  Locked air-casts SUCK.

Solution options:  Give us an expanded toolkit that includes a knockdown, remove the cast limit on ES (so we MIGHT have a shield in position to catch incoming fire BEFORE radial damage can slaughter us), and PLEASE DE, KILL THE AIR-CAST LOCK OUT.  I HATE a misshapen floor panel preventing me from using the only move Volt has that's worth something (due to the stun).

 

Edited May 28, 2016 by Cytobel

[Toramaru]

26 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

Okay, so here's what I'm thinking with a re-rework for a Warframe with no War in it anymore:

Passive: The key here is to remove it's ability to discharge on anything EXCEPT for Melee attacks, Shock, and (please dear God rename it) Discharge.  The worst part of the move to a damage boost over a power Strength boost is that a Strength boost would WORK with Speed, making Speed viable even in low-strength builds.

Shock: I like that this is a "keystone" ability; that's great.  I wonder if we could get some knockdown chance there, because Volt's toolkit NEEDS this BADLY now.

Speed: Is dead.  If it weren't based on Power Strength then I'd probably feel better here, but it's currently worthless if you're building for his other moves.

Electric Shield:  The part where we can carry this seems good, but I will NEVER USE THIS. It costs DRASTICALLY too much, making it more worth my time to just recast.  Also, what's up with only having 4 ES?  The synergy with Shock is without meaning if we can't drop these landmines where we need, and still have others to protect againsto incoming fire.

Overload (Because I will be DAMNED if I'm talking about Volt's "Discharge"):  Alright, here's the problem:  Now we need a grouping utility for Volt.  Worse, we can't survive groups of enemies before they've coalesced into a pack ripe to catch Discharge, and the limits on ES casts mean we can't even rely on out "defensive skill".  The cherry on this mud pie is the fact that air-casts are locked, so floor textures keep preventing me from casting it.  Locked air-casts SUCK.

Solution options:  Give us an expanded toolkit that includes a knockdown, remove the cast limit on ES (so we MIGHT have a shield in position to catch incoming fire BEFORE radial damage can slaughter us), and PLEASE DE, KILL THE AIR-CAST LOCK OUT.  I HATE a misshapen floor panel preventing me from using the only move Volt has that's worth something (due to the stun).

 

Or boost speed, make a self buff only, Shock with 0 damage and moddable Stun time, no ES, get something to help Volt on his melee/cast quest and simply remove the Discharge.

[Cara360]

I gotta say, I'm piss off of the fact they limit Volt shield to 4. How am I suppose to well in defense missions but also protecting myself while reviving others? It never have been a bothersome and not a game breaking as other powers. I haven't try the rework a lot yet, but disappointed of the outcome so far. The only good thing out of it was the passive and Capacitance mod is a bit useful now.

[Faeduin]

2 minutes ago, Toramaru said:

Or boost speed, make a self buff only, Shock with 0 damage and moddable Stun time, no ES, get something to help Volt on his melee/cast quest and simply remove the Discharge.

We get it, you like melee Volt.

It's my preferred playstyle as well, but wanting to force everyone into that is ridiculous and selfish.

His abilities are fine, it's how they had functioned and how they now function that is the issue at hand.

[Toramaru]

1 minute ago, Kedai said:

We get it, you like melee Volt.

It's my preferred playstyle as well, but wanting to force everyone into that is ridiculous and selfish.

His abilities are fine, it's how they had functioned and how they now function that is the issue at hand.

Not forcing anything sir. Presenting the options. You could even say people who liked the "rework" are the ones "forcing" anything. Pointless bravado.

The issue at hand is that DE seems lost with how they will set Volt henceforth. That's where we should at least try to come in. I'm sincerely into the save Speed, forsake the rest (new kit) team. At least considering how things are turning to be.

[xiaodenden]

I like some of the suggestions so far.  After you drop the Riot Electric Shield, you should switch back to your primary or whatever weapon you were wielding before you picked up the shield.  RES's current cost is too high and duration + high energy cost is too much and redundant.  I like some of the suggestion of pausing the duration in RES form or, as I suggested in my previous post, lower the energy cost.

I also like idea of having knock down abilities so it's yet another crowd control as well as allowing him and his teammates to perform finishers.

[Faeduin]

7 minutes ago, Toramaru said:

Not forcing anything sir. Presenting the options. You could even say people who liked the "rework" are the ones "forcing" anything. Pointless bravado.

The issue at hand is that DE seems lost with how they will set Volt henceforth. That's where we should at least try to come in. I'm sincerely into the save Speed, forsake the rest (new kit) team. At least considering how things are turning to be.

 I didn't say you were forcing anything, only that you wanted him to be built around Speed, which you again stated.

 The changes you proposed being implemented would force others into a more singular playstyle and that is again, selfish.

 Also I fail to see how it's pointless bravado on the part of those who generally like the rework so far, I've seen no intimidation tactics or anyone trying to impress another over to their way of thinking outside of the post you made showing damage/kills which ironically, is actually bravado itself. Their opinion matters just as much as anyone else willing to spill it out here and their voice is a welcome addition even if you don't agree with it.

I also disagree with DE seemingly lost with his design direction, it's pretty obvious the direction they want to take him in, it's the same direction he's been going for years. They wanted to rework him not redo him and that shows here after the patch, the issue that the majority is having is not what they did, but how they did it.

 

[Aquasurge]

38 minutes ago, xiaodenden said:

I like some of the suggestions so far.  After you drop the Riot Electric Shield, you should switch back to your primary or whatever weapon you were wielding before you picked up the shield.  RES's current cost is too high and duration + high energy cost is too much and redundant.  I like some of the suggestion of pausing the duration in RES form or, as I suggested in my previous post, lower the energy cost.

I also like idea of having knock down abilities so it's yet another crowd control as well as allowing him and his teammates to perform finishers.

agreed, I feel like they should take a leap and make all of his powers cheaper and all of his dmg on the verge of being good, which encourages negative efficiency build that scales well with mods.

[BiscuitLord12]

My opinion: The idea for the rework sure is awesome, BUT, i would change some stuff before doing a Volt Profile revisited. First: Please let me cast discharge in the air, and give it a little love because it sucks ATM. Second: The sound upgrade to his shock is pretty poo, make it more WOOOOOW THUNDER. Third: Reduce the energy drain on Riot Shield, like really this change was supposed to make him move alot more but if you do that for 5 secs you lose 200 energy. Fourth: plz make an option to have the motion sicness effect to his speed ( Put it on the display thingy (i use to love that) ). AS I SAID, good ideas but it came out wrong. (There are some problems that i didn't cover over here) Love you DE <3

Edited May 28, 2016 by BiscuitLord12

[RedLord5]

8 hours ago, Satinpuppies said:

Speed most noticeably has had its FOV reduced on cast, which should help with motion sickness complaints. Other players in range now get to 'opt-in' to Volt's Speed buff, by activating a pickup that Volt leaves behind on cast. This activation occurs on contact.

wow motion sickness complaints. HOW THE HELL DO YOU GET motion sickness in a god damb game with volt

let me say this DE has ficked up Volt's SPEED abialty, Volt is bascikly a support on many missions

[RedLord5]

8 hours ago, Gilmaesh said:

what about the speed thing, i don't quite get the volt will drop something that other players need to take to gain the volt speed.

i agree with you

[Aquasurge]

37 minutes ago, RedLord5 said:

i agree with you

I want to be able to see the pick up too.

[Toramaru]

1 hour ago, Kedai said:

 I didn't say you were forcing anything, only that you wanted him to be built around Speed, which you again stated.

 The changes you proposed being implemented would force others into a more singular playstyle and that is again, selfish.

 Also I fail to see how it's pointless bravado on the part of those who generally like the rework so far, I've seen no intimidation tactics or anyone trying to impress another over to their way of thinking outside of the post you made showing damage/kills which ironically, is actually bravado itself. Their opinion matters just as much as anyone else willing to spill it out here and their voice is a welcome addition even if you don't agree with it.

 

Ok.

1 hour ago, Kedai said:

I also disagree with DE seemingly lost with his design direction, it's pretty obvious the direction they want to take him in, it's the same direction he's been going for years. They wanted to rework him not redo him and that shows here after the patch, the issue that the majority is having is not what they did, but how they did it.

 

That we certainly don't agree. The point for a rework for me was to enable Volt to scale along the game premises. Speed pre-rework had a somewhat acceptable scalability. It kept that, as it had a single buff (reload speed) and nothing else. I don't consider any of the graphic overhaul or the picking up speed buff as a rework, as it was simply not needed. It even breaks the flow of the skill at some point. Still, Speed is the only skill that somewhat kept it scaling.

Shock certainly didn't scale, and their rework changed its zapping sound... Again, graphic/sound overhaul with no buff/change whatsoever.

ES is still as weird as ever. It displeases me and I don't use it. But aside from my perspective on the skill, let's look at how it is, shall we? It is a board that interrupts travel of objects, mostly bullets, in a small area, with little addition to a game and specially to a Frame that is as Mobile as Volt is. It synergyzes with Shock to some extent, which I haven't tested, will not comment. Now, this is where it gets even weirder: you may pick up your shield and stroll amidst playful shooter. You cannot, however, enjoy said stroll, as you'll be HEAVILY penalized picking up the shield, loosing speed, which Volt already doesn't have, and loosing energy/sec, which our Caster is quite dependent on. Broken mechanics. Again, graphic overhaul, completely negligible. No scalability per se, as the idea behind being static is dreadful on the current end game scenario.

Passive had a lot of potential, but this is where I get perplexed. I do get that damage is cool, but where did the 1.000 damage came from? Should I comment on scalability here?

Last, but not least, Discharge. I liked the idea behind the skill. I liked the proposed mechanic. I even liked the name. But I certainly don't like the skill. Shocking speed does the same job with a twist: you're not locked, you are hitting things, and you're stunning with a 100% chance proc without cast time. Again, Speed has scalability to some extent. The other skills don't, at least not to me. and this sir, lead me to imply DE seemed lost when granting us this utmost "rework". Unless by U19 badies get 1.000 total HP by the 100th level.

[Cytobel]

I'm gonna keep working Volt throughout the weekend.  Hopefully I can come up with something that works.

As a "tactical 'Frame" this Volt is pure failure.  The current situation forces you choose 2 abilities (at best) and FORGET the rest of his kit.

-Want a usable Riot Shield and a workable Overload?  Dump strength, build all else, maiming Shock and murdering Speed.

-Want a good Speed and Electric Shield so you can melee?  Build strength and duration, steal ALL the kills while everyone whines about how you (very deliberately) hid the Speed buff.  While you're at it, you need that efficiency up to go Riot Shield, so don't forget it either.

-Want to build for Shock and Overload?  Give up.  Overload requires duration and range.  Shock requires strength and range.  We can BARELY make a half-bad (instead of totally bad) build for this, and Shock doesn't bring you any benefits by doing this.

-Shock, ES, and Overload build sound good?  Welp, time to get as much range, duration, and efficiency as humanly possible and bury power strength in the backyard.

TL;DR:  You can't make a decent generalist build, but have to choose which moves you'll use.  THAT'S NOT TACTICAL, let alone viable for a 'Frame already lacking survivability.

Potential Solutions:

-Up the base range on Overload by 30-50%.  This would let us focus away from a long-range/high-duration build, stacking instead duration and DECENT range.

-Cut the active energy cost for carrying Riot Shield totally, remove the weapons restrictions and speed penalty, or reduce the active energy cost AND remove the speed penalty.

[This is the best of the added effects imo, with the facing determined by camera angle and granting players the ability to drag a damage buff along for the ride.  There's just no point to ever do this if you're sacrificing moves to do it.  Sad, when this could fix a ton of the squishiness of Volt WITHOUT rendering him immune to damage.]

-Volt's current passive isn't tactical and it's always being wasted on every bullet I fire..  Lets consider a new passive based on movement, or go with something like "Volt's shock procs (guns too, maybe) have a 50% knockdown chance".  Heck, that "power strength based on distance traveled" would at least help Speed work on low-strength builds.

I will update as I find work-arounds for these hurdles, if and when I find them.  I'm hoping Volt isn't back to a "pick 'n choose" state for skills.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Cytobel

[Aquasurge]

2 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

I'm gonna keep working Volt throughout the weekend.  Hopefully I can come up with something that works.

As a "tactical 'Frame" this Volt is pure failure.  The current situation forces you choose 2 abilities (at best) and FORGET the rest of his kit.

-Want a usable Riot Shield and a workable Overload?  Dump strength, maiming Shock and murdering Speed.

-Want a good Speed and Electric Shield so you can melee?  Build strength and duration, steal ALL the kills while everyone whines about how you (very deliberately) hid the Speed buff.  While you're at it, you need that efficiency up to go Riot Shield, so don't forget that one either.

-Want to build for Shock and Overload?  Give up.  Overload requires duration and range.  Shock requires strength and range.  We can BARELY make a half-bad (instead of totally bad) build for this, and Shock doesn't bring you any benefits by doing this.

-Shock, ES, and Overload build sound good?  Welp, time to get as much range, duration, and efficiency as humanly possible and bury power strength in the backyard.

TL;DR:  You can't make a decent generalist build, but have to choose which moves you'll use.  THAT'S NOT TACTICAL, let alone viable for a 'Frame already lacking survivability.

Potential Solutions:

-Up the base range on Overload by 30-50%.  This would let us focus away from a long-range/high-duration build.

-Cut the active energy cost for carrying Riot Shield totally, remove the weapons restrictions and speed penalty, or reduce the active energy cost AND remove the speed penalty.

-Volt's current passive isn't tactical and it's always being wasted on every bullet I fire..  Lets consider a new passive based on movement, or go with something like "Volt's shock procs (guns too, maybe) have a 50% knockdown chance".  Heck, that "power strength bugg based on distance traveled" would at least help Speed work on low-strength builds.

I will update as I find work-arounds for these hurdles, if and when I find them.  I'm hoping Volt isn't back to a "pick 'n choose" state for skills.

 I found that using Efficiency as a dump stat was more effective with an EV trin nearby. if you don't use RES of course.

though I'd suggest to only keep speed reduction on RES and let that value decrease with power strength , creating and promoting synergy with speed since speed's buff increases with power strength.

but to be honest if all of volt's abilities were cheaper to cast, he'd be 10x better than where he is now.