Volt Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[(PSN)CaptainIMalik]

12 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

@(PS4)CaptainIMalik Quick Thinking scales with armor mitigation, so the armor boost from 15 to 100 in addition to the energy boost from 100 to 200 was massive. 

15 armor = 4.76% damage reduction

100 armor = 25% damage reduction

The EHP of Volt Prime is many times that of Volt. Volt Prime is an absolute massive buff over regular Volt, I do believe Volt should be brought up more in line with the prime version.

I use to have quick thinking on but I found the stagger annoying...

[(PSN)CaptainIMalik]

I would like shock to open finishers. 

[YagoXiten]

4 hours ago, (PS4)CaptainIMalik said:

I would like shock to open finishers. 

I'd like to cast Volt's abilities more, and get more use out of them.

I do not want to waste hours in finishing animations that won't kill the target when I could just melee something to death in a quarter of the time.

[Mekyo]

I want all of Electric Shield's cool hidden properties back. Extended range on beams, damage falloff cancelling for shotguns...

And just make Discharge's stun duration based, not damage based, I don't know why this hasn't been changed yet.

Also if Volt is never gonna be able to deal scaling damage or something, just change that darn "potent alternative to gunplay" description please.

[Vafthrudnir]

9 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Are they?

When for example, electrical explosions actaully exist in the game already in the form of grineer arc traps, but instead of that, they chose to use a miniature version of the animation they used for banshees sound quake and call it an "explosion"?

But actually i just came by to see what you guys where up to, i just log on and off warframe for the daily attendance rewards....i have nothing new to add because they have changed nothing and it feels like its been months since the last update to ps4 warframe. Also, there is no other frame i wish to invest that same amount of time into, epsecially if it will just be nerfed and given horrible excuses for synergies and a unnoticeable passive with stupid limitations sprinkled throughout the whole kit. Cus i could go on again how vanilla volt still shows as my most played frame at 21 percent, and i threw him away when volt prime came out who is my second most played frame at 12%, but stats arent going to budge if you never play the game and theyve been like that since the rework...

Personal problems. Ill just sit back in silence amd watch the conversations.

In Volt's case they are negligible, shock discharged target for a radial electric explosion, for what reason? They are already under CC, Shock shield to do extra low damage on contact, carry the shield to deplete all your energy, get slower and restrict your weapons, Valkyr has this too but she's totally immune and exalted weapons are good.

Passive, run all over the map to do negligible damage on your next cast or attack. It should've been power strenght or get energy for how long you move. Instead the rework was "Let's add useless features!" The riot shield was not even meant to be, it was added after player complaint that the rework did nothing, they did not say what the requirements to use it were.

Edited April 12, 2017 by giovanniluca

[(PSN)CaptainIMalik]

8 hours ago, YagoXiten said:

I'd like to cast Volt's abilities more, and get more use out of them.

I do not want to waste hours in finishing animations that won't kill the target when I could just melee something to death in a quarter of the time.

Yes. I was playing Nidus for the first time,his first ability: it doesn't need to do CC for you to reload or shoot or give time to melee, it just KILLS. And saves time. 

Edited April 12, 2017 by (PS4)CaptainIMalik

[FitzSimmons]

On 4/10/2017 at 6:11 AM, giovanniluca said:

That only happens if the squad uses crit chance weapons.

well isnt it obvious since what he said is critical damage lololol

 

On 4/10/2017 at 6:11 AM, giovanniluca said:

Source? And any reduction he brings would still be huge. A CP or 2 would be enough.

well it will be more efficient for squad to use CP than rely on frost armor reduction, besides even in sortie 3, without CP and any damage reduction, my soma and volt shield kill really fast on enemy physical enhancement condition.

 

On 4/10/2017 at 6:28 AM, giovanniluca said:

The only status Saryn applies is Viral and Toxin

thats it, half enemy hp is a great debuff tbh,and if your enemy is corpus toxin is a great element because it bypass corpus shield.

[Vafthrudnir]

2 minutes ago, FitzSimmons said:

well isnt it obvious since what he said is critical damage lololol

As party buff it requires a party setup of crit weapons.

 

2 minutes ago, FitzSimmons said:

and if your enemy is corpus toxin is a great element because it bypass corpus shield.

Saryn's toxin damage from molt is like nothing.

[FitzSimmons]

5 hours ago, giovanniluca said:

Saryn's toxin damage from molt is like nothing.

doesnt have to be saryn actually, chroma with ignis imbued with toxin/gas with his vex armor is awesome, and too bad if that setup is wasted

[Vafthrudnir]

4 hours ago, FitzSimmons said:

doesnt have to be saryn actually, chroma with ignis imbued with toxin/gas with his vex armor is awesome, and too bad if that setup is wasted

Lucky post, that configuration is useless anyway.

[FitzSimmons]

21 minutes ago, giovanniluca said:

Lucky post, that configuration is useless anyway.

i didnt say toxic chroma tho, i said chroma with ignis with toxin/gas element when fight corpus (especially if the ignis is radiation + toxin) they're 2 different things, toxic chroma is chroma with toxic energy color. 

[Cytobel]

Back to Volt, I see multiple good uses for Electric Shield's weapon buffs:

First, it combos with elements on the weapon.  Firing Radiation//Corrosion projectiles instead of Radiation//Toxin has repeatedly proven DEVASTATING against the Kuva fatties.  It's why my Twin Grakatas are so effective in Floods tbh.

Second off, if you've got no uncombined elements you can have a chance at an AoE, but if there's an Electricity combo you're seeing not only a buff but a skew towards that combo for the purpose of proc chance.  Hell even just a possible stun isn't the worst thing out there (too bad it's so damn short).

Thirdly, people who run higher-end content tend to use weapon builds that focus crit or status chance (sometimes both).  If they understand how ES works, you can often encourage them to take positions based off your shield placement.  Naturally this doesn't work all the time, but I've found I can not only help someone survive a heavy wave but also cover a critical angle with solid shield placement.

As for Speed, it tends to make people run around a lot, thrashing with melee wildly, and then die.

And people ask me why I say Speed build is cancer....

The point is that Volt brings multiple options to a fight, but they are not equal in utility.  Volt himself isn't much of a body (Primed or not), his kit has diverse requirements that wind up making you feel punished for trying to just use all his skills at once, and many of those skills have significant drawbacks which can outweigh their effect if you don't specialize in them in particular.

I feel like he needs a reworked-rework to address basic issues in his kit, preferably WITHOUT another goddamn stack of extra costs and penalties.

[(PSN)CaptainIMalik]

Volt rework

New sprint speed: 1.3

 

Passives:

Passive 1: Old passive kept but does not goes down all the way to 0. Electricity damage contributes to build up. It charges up much slower (0-1000) for more natural progression. Volt becomes more powerful as he builds up more static electricity which includes the following:

• Electricity does 30% more damage
• Coated in Electricity that gives resistance to status
• Shock can act as a defibrillator to downed allies
• Volt gains 100 bonus armor (which Volt Prime takes full advantage of) 

 

Passive 2: His Speed now becomes his passive. When you press the roll button, you do a blink and you are now in the state of Speed that drains 2 energy per second. 

In the state up speed, you shrug off Status effects a lot quicker and have a 50% knockdown recovery

Shock: Shock remains largely the same but it scales much better. It does a lot of damage in comparison but it's not trying very hard to kill, it's just a simple quick shock like before which can be useful for reloading etc. However, the electricity damage can stack and do more damage for every time an enemy is shocked. 

There is also a toggle Shock that you hold down your Shock that does serious damage and is trying to kill you. 

Ability two: I don't know what kind of ability could be here. Like somesort of ability that resets your heart and gives you like a buff? An ability that does good CC and is a good support. Volt summons lightning bolts? I don't know.

Electric shield: Largely the same. But there are no cons when using the riot shield. There is no timer on how long you can use the ability, 3 energy per second, does not slow you down and you can use your primary. 

 

Discharge: No damage cap. You can discharge in mid air. Discharge also super powers you:

• 10% more Electric damage
• You run 10% faster
• You melee 50% faster
• Reload 20% faster 
• Idea: This can be his second ability or part of his fourth, enough electricity generated that Volt has a 45% chance to phase through damage

Edited April 14, 2017 by (PS4)CaptainIMalik

[SylvenStar]

Here's an idea for a passive: Ground movement builds static charge. Activating an ability consumes all stacks of static charge. For each stack, Shock deals an extra 10 electric damage to all targets, up to 1000. Speed grants only Volt an extra bonus strength on the movement speed boost, from 5% per stack up to 50%. Electric shield is .5% larger per stack, up to 50%. Discharge deal an instantaneous bonus 300 damage per stack, almost up to 3000 distributed between enemies. If Discharge is used with maximum stacks, Discharge instead deals 1% of target max health+shield per damage tick.
Actual effectiveness of the passive is dependent on warframe level, these stats are at level 30.

Reduce Discharge and Shock base damage, remove damage cap on Discharge. Maybe replace Riot Shield with some other utility. Otherwise, leave the rest of his kit as is.

Edited April 18, 2017 by SylvenStar

[Cytobel]

Part of me is hesitant to consider a redesign of Volt's passive as of right now.

With Limbo's rework all other passives in the game have become obsolete.  They're relics from a design era when passives were considered to be an extra little something to add flavor.  To say Rift Dash craps all over that school of thought is like saying that thousands of generations of bats make the floor of a cave a bit mucky -- completely true, but also a truely epic understatement.

To be fair, I like it and think it was a needed change, but that rework opened Pandora's Box on the subject of passives.  We now exist in a time when Ash's direct-to-DPS passive looks slightly anemic...

I may be mis-stating the Rift Dash mechanic as a "passive".  It feels like Inaros' res mechanic or Nidus' Undying (which is far more like "welp, now I'm ACTUALLY gonna die" because of the stack cost change), but these really aren't passive parts of the 'Frames they're part of.  They're central mechanics.

While I'd love to see Volt with a central mechanic I'm not certain we have a good grasp on what this should look like yet.  Just going by flavor I'd like to see something based off of polarity or charge, but electricity offers many good options.  Quantum tunneling, charged particle interactions, plasma manipulation, ranged induction...  to say I feel spoiled for choice...

You know what I mean?

[Ikusias]

Suggestions for Volt actual rework:

keeping in mind that it is one of the starting frames, makes sense if all powers teach something on balancing builds

 

Passive: LIGHTNING SPEED

When dashing Volt's passive kicks in granting it the effects of the old speed ability:

- progressive increase in rushing speed so it doesnt stamp itself on doors and obstacles;

- faster weapon swapping;

- accellerated melee;

- accellerated bow draw;

- increased thrown weapons fire rate.

note: only "muscle powered" weapons are affected and passive effect subsides after a few second after stopping dashing/moving

i.e. the passive works mainly while in motion

 

#1 "Lightning bolt"

As current ability only with added possibility of doing a quick tap/single shock or keeping pressed and have the power behaving like the amprex(*).

Targets get stunned for few seconds depending on power duration - but higher duration = longer stun + less frequent damage ticks.

 - energy drain increases with duration of power activaton similarly to banshee's resonating quake augment mechanics.

 - Stun duration and damage ticks need to be balanced so that players have to choose between damage, crowd control or a middle ground of both.

 - Targeting needs to returno spot on aiming reticle with secondary bolts propagating outwards from main target to nearest secondary targets, items with HP bars are viable targets, current targeting is bugged and shock hits werever it likes instead than on target.

 - enemies hit are "electrically charged" marking them for interaction with the remaining powers.

Power is affected by Strenght, Duration, Range and Efficency. Augment remains unmodifed.

(*)could be based on the weapon ummodded stats with range reduced to pistol levels or less considering we have access to range mods.

 

#2 "Clad in lightning"

Volt's hull is electrically charged while draining shields similarly to Inaros scarab armor power mechanics  - it is now literally covered in lightning

- melee is electrically charged, adding extra damage based on overall "Clad in lightning" charge, this grants extra electric damage and potential stun on hitting enemies;

  if an enemy is marked the stun is guaranteed and a shock is passed to nearby enemies with chance to stun them as well;

- enemy that attack Volt in melee get stunned and receive minor shock damage;

- enemy shields in range suffer ongoing damage with visual effects marking their position - think something like Saint Elmo's fires, light fixtures in area flicker.

Power is affected by Strenght, Duration and Efficency. Range is fixed. Augment "Shock Soldier" now adds ongoing shock damage to enemies in the vicinity much like Shock Eximus aura damage.

 

#3 "Electric Shield"

Volt can lay down up to 6 Electric Barriers that deflect enemy fire, what changes:

- charging a shield with "Lightning Bolt" "stores" its damage in it, enemies attempting to cross the charged shield are flung back and shocked for the full damage accumulated in it and the charge is spent;

- shooting trough a charged shield grants the extra damage and guaranteed stun to the shot and consumes the charge;

- passing trough the shield with volt when "clad in lightning" is active automatically picks up the shield in its "riot shield" form, switching armament to a secondary weapon if using a primary, switch back is automatic if the power ends due to duration or nullification.

   - if the shield was charged when picked up with "clad in lightning" damage is applied on first enemy hit, generating a stun on all enemies in a small area of effect,

   - marked enemies propagate the damage and the stun to their neighbours.

   - All other limitations on riot shield mode are removed, duration of riot shield is based on remaining duration of the original fixed electric shield.

Power is affected by Duration and Efficency. Range is fixed / optionally can also slightly enlarge/widen the shields. Strenght could be used to determine how much damage can be stored in a shield with "lightning bolt".

 

#4 "Thunderstorm"

Cionsidering how cluncky is the current verison a workable revork could be based on a mix of the old Overload and the actual underwhelming Discharge with addition of a few twists and rewamped graphical effects:

On cast enemies are first shocked and locked in position by the charges running along the ground.

Volt can then sustain the effect and unleash a veritable electric thunderstorm in the area, with enemies, the ground and the ceiling, light fixtures and objects all hit and connected by chain lightning.

- power can be air cast, with Volt stopping midair during casting animation like in the old Warframe trailers;

- no line of sight bullS#&$: the attack is an area effect, electricity runs trough materials, if an enemy is in range it's toasted, period

- new enemies entering the area are hit and stun as well;

- objects with health bars are hit and broken, light fixtures fizzle and break apart, reducing illumination in the area to hath provided by the electric show, much like old Overload - might be graphics intensive but was much much more satisfying than current iteration;

- damage is listed per enemy with no maximum limit, Volt's energy reserves are the deciding factor here, like most frames sustained #4 powers;

- marking enemies with "lightning bolt" causes them to generate an initial area of effect of additional damage on "Thunderstorm" cast;

- if Volt is "Clad in lightning" when casting "Thunderstorm" - lightning armour is "detonated" for knockdown and additional damage on nearby enemies;

- any "electric shield" in the area is charged with electric damage as if it was hit by "lightning bolt" for the duration of the power;

Power is affected by Strenght, Duration, Range and Efficency. Augment remains unchanged.

Optimal usage is obtained by both charging enemies with "lightning bolt" beforehand and by detonating "clad in lightning" in their midst for an initial burst of damage and survivability thanks to the sudden CC, while sustained use grants more cc and damage.

Graphically this is what it could look, with lightning becoming the only light source in enclosed spaces or reaching up to a thundercloud in open spaces

Edited April 22, 2017 by Ikusias
Fixed language and corrected spots were explanation wasn't much clear

[Cytobel]

On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 8:10 AM, Ikusias said:

Alright, I like some of this.

I'm really taken with the thought of focusing towards making Speed a passive and building lots of power interactions.  Taking Speed out of the main kit may well be the best part, because it lets us have a more potent (and thematically-fitting) skill in its place while also opening up build flexibility.

The idea of seeing Strength change the way an ability actually deals it's damage as well as the amount of damage is VERY powerful.  That could be an appropriate way to handle armor scaling or faction resistances.  VERY GOOD IDEA.

[Ikusias]

Also most problems other players have with Volt's Speed are:

- volt remains the slowest member of the squad even whit speed up

- Speed messess up other players control of their frames I personally lost count of the times I faceplanted in the scenery due to a nearby Volt suddenly activating Speed

- Squadwide Speed can be relegated to a mod, for example the augment for Volt's #1 could include or be changed to giving allies Volt's innate speed buff for a time

Edited April 22, 2017 by Ikusias
typo correction

[Vafthrudnir]

Speed should increase on how much you run.

[Music4Therapy]

Volt is an amazing frame. You guys are just bad. This is literally how you succeed as Volt:

1)Throw up electric shield.

2) Stand behind electric shield, kill anything that tries to bypass the shield.

3) If you need to move to another spot, press 4, pick up your shield, press 2, then move. Use his 1 or recast 4 for additional CC while moving.

4) Watch those epic crits as you trivialize missions. GG.

The mistake the bad players seem to be making is that they are building around his Speed ability instead of his 3/4. Sure, the speed builds work to a point. But if you want to carry teams to victory no matter what level the mission, build around his 3. If you want to derp in the middle of crowds of enemies while swinging epicly fast, play Valkyr.

Edited April 23, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[SylvenStar]

3 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

Volt is an amazing frame. You guys are just bad. This is literally how you succeed as Volt:

1)Throw up electric shield.

2) Stand behind electric shield, kill anything that tries to bypass the shield.

3) If you need to move to another spot, press 4, pick up your shield, press 2, then move. Use his 1 or recast 4 for additional CC while moving.

4) Watch those epic crits as you trivialize missions. GG.

The mistake the bad players seem to be making is that they are building around his Speed ability instead of his 3/4. Sure, the speed builds work to a point. But if you want to carry teams to victory no matter what level the mission, build around his 3. If you want to derp in the middle of crowds of enemies while swinging epicly fast, play Valkyr.

Are you actually going to say that the majority of players are bad? Don't play special snowflake. It's one thing to come into a conversation and give advice as to how we might change things up and find something that works, it's another to just call everybody bad. Back off, bud.

That strategy you have works up to roughly level 40ish. Once you get past that, enemies are too numerous for electric shield to handle, especially infested. Have fun with that.
On top of that, activating Discharge, Speed, and picking up the shield to move costs a STUPID amount of energy, and Discharge takes a while for the CC to kick in, and doesn't last for more than a second against Corpus. Yes primed flow and a Streamline help with that, but that still ignores a crucial thing: Where most (if not all non-support) frames combo powers like that as a room sweeping manuevre, volt does it just to change spots in the room and hardly damages anything with it.

Once again, you, like many others, ignore our main point: Just because Volt is perfectly viable doesn't mean he's nearly up to par with any of the other frames. He needs to catch up.

Edited April 23, 2017 by SylvenStar

[SylvenStar]

3 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

If you want to derp in the middle of crowds of enemies while swinging epicly fast, play Valkyr.

Or Ember. Or Excalibur. Or Rhino. Or Chroma. Because Valkyr isn't the only one that can swing fast without dying instantly, she just happens to be built specifically for that. 
Better yet, use the nukes from Nova, Frost, Saryn, Nyx, Limbo, Mirage, Nezha, Oberon, Ash, or the super debuff/CC of Hydroid, Mag, Zephyr, Nyx, Vauban, Frost, Equinox, Banshee, Chroma, Nekros, Limbo, Titania, Nidus, or Ivara. Your point is invalid because it applies to every non-support. We're not asking for super nuke or Valkyr 2. We're asking for something that actually compares properly.

[Music4Therapy]

4 hours ago, SylvenStar said:

That strategy you have works up to roughly level 40ish. Once you get past that, enemies are too numerous for electric shield to handle, especially infested. Have fun with that.
On top of that, activating Discharge, Speed, and picking up the shield to move costs a STUPID amount of energy, and Discharge takes a while for the CC

Lol.

1) Level 40? Really? Join me in Mot, I'll show you enemies that are 10x that using that exact strategy. I literally spend the majority of my time in Warframe doing endurance runs. Volt is AMAZING at endurance runs due to his incredible scaling.

2) It doesn't cost a lot if you build for it like I suggested, or use Zenurik. (EDIT: Just so you know, I actually gain energy I pick up the shield, it doesn't turn off Zenurik when you do so) #NaramonIsForBaddies.

3) Discharge does take a while, that's why you use it behind his shield. Nothing touches you between his 1, 3, and 4.

Edited April 23, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[SylvenStar]

4 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

Lol.

1) Level 40? Really? Join me in Mot, I'll show you enemies that are 10x that using that exact strategy. I literally spend the majority of my time in Warframe doing endurance runs. Volt is AMAZING at endurance runs due to his incredible scaling.

2) It doesn't cost a lot if you build for it like I suggested, or use Zenurik. (EDIT: Just so you know, I actually gain energy I pick up the shield, it doesn't turn off Zenurik when you do so) #NaramonIsForBaddies.

3) Discharge does take a while, that's why you use it behind his shield. Nothing touches you between his 1, 3, and 4.

I'm going to ask you again, politely, to please stop acting like I, and so many others, are just bad at the game. It's toxic, insulting, and unwelcome in a thread of people just trying to work things out. And I won't bother arguing against points that have been repeated by you and many others, and correspondingly refuted, so many times in this thread.

[Music4Therapy]

9 minutes ago, SylvenStar said:

I'm going to ask you again, politely, to please stop acting like I, and so many others, are just bad at the game. It's toxic, insulting, and unwelcome in a thread of people just trying to work things out. And I won't bother arguing against points that have been repeated by you and many others, and correspondingly refuted, so many times in this thread.

When you make claims like the strategy of using his shields properly only lasts until level 40 I can just tell you either you haven't tested it much or you rarely do endless runs and is so completely wrong. It's an attempt to discredit what I said, and a terrible one at that.

Seriously, this is an invitation. Please join me at Mot.

Everyone wants Volt to be Sonic the Hedgehog, but he doesn't need that. I go into survival missions and outlast Chroma and Inaros players with Volt. Why? You can say it's because they're bad or I'm good, but it's really because Volt's defense scales infinitely and theirs doesn't. His combination of offense and defense is unparalleled.

Edited April 23, 2017 by Music4Therapy