Volt Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[Vafthrudnir]

Changes to Hydroid "Oh look it melts stuff in seconds and it's ultraboring" DE:"We'll probably keep it like this"

Changes to Volt "Your rework it's just that? Where's the cool stuff?" A week before the release at the last moment DE:"Uh now you can carry a shield but it has so much maluses that you better not carry it and you don't scale at all, also your sinergies are fake, your ult is capped, the passive is capped and the shield bonus does not scale with power strenght, and as usual you're still slower than anyone, also nerfs, but hey speed now gives you some reload speed which is less than a mod" 

And after a while they release Octavia and Harrow, and even Oberon/Hydroid  scale now.

[BarneyD2]

It certainly is regrettable that Volt's supposed synergies don't really exist. Speed is probably the only real thing keeping him usable. I really can't understand why Volt got so many negatives on his shield; it was not such a ludicrously overpowered idea to let him carry his shield that it warrants a higher base energy drain than things like Nyx' Absorb AND features a bonus drain based on distance travelled. Worse than that, it slows an already slow-by-default frame, limits you to secondaries, and shrinks the shield size to just about cover your body. That is an insane amount of negatives for one ability to have, especially on Volt who relies so much on his weapons to deal any meaningful damage. If you really want to keep negatives, pick one, at most two, out of the FIVE.

Additionally, with the exception of Capacitance, a couple of his other augment mods suffer from "Why isn't this just part of the base ability" syndrome, specifically Shocking Speed and Transistor Shield. You should not have to expend a mod slot for either of these to be in effect. Speed should already have those visual arcs actually do something, and allies should be able to pick up the shield by default as well—except that nobody would do that anyway given how absurdly punished they are for even picking it up in the first place.

Capacitance is a good mod for a terrible ability. Discharge doesn't deal enough damage to be a damage ability, but because of its damage cap, it can't be used as crowd-control either, meaning that this is another case where an augment mod is necessary to turn a trash ability into an at least usable one. Even if those other two factors weren't an issue, its base range is also laughable, and given how Volt wants to build duration, it's very likely you'll go negative range, resulting in spitting distance Discharges. AND it animation locks you for the cast, just like Overload did. Overload was better, and that's really saying a lot. At least when Overload did work, it killed most things in its aoe. I cannot hate on this ability enough. I play Volt the same way now, as I did in U7, mostly pressing 2, sometimes 3, and avoiding 4 as much as humanly possible.

The devs have not made their reasoning clear for why Volt's changes have been so underwhelming and disappointing, and yet they allow frames like Octavia and Harrow to exist in their current state, offering substantially more than Volt ever could whilst also being unkillable. Oh but of course, Volt makes you go quick. Evidently this is enough to justify all the other nerfs and negatives. Literally Speed is the only reason Volt is still played by anyone other than hardcore fans.

If you're going to add stuff to existing abilities to try and get them to be used in a new way, don't then release what is essentially a nerfed version of what the original suggestion was; as it stands, I'd rather not have the ability to pick shield up at all, because if I really wanted to shield a different area, I would place down another shield for substantially less energy, and: have twice as much coverage, still be able to use my primary weapon, and I wouldn't be Hobbled.

Now would be a perfect time for DE to at least consider putting Volt back on the table, since they've already said they're done with Hydroid for the time being. The makings of a fantastic frame that's already fun to play is there. Like Oberon, it just needs some more work to reach that state, but UNLIKE Oberon, I don't want to have to wait half a year or more for that to even be considered. Their other proper reworks have all come out very well so I have a lot of faith in them. Just, please don't call this a Volt "rework" because it really isn't, and it's a bit insulting to the players who love Volt.

Edited August 19, 2017 by BarneyD2
Typos

[Vafthrudnir]

9 hours ago, BarneyD2 said:

Now would be a perfect time for DE to at least consider putting Volt back on the table

I don't like Hydroid changes tbh, wrong turns. Ok to work on Volt but not like that.

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

On 12/08/2017 at 2:03 AM, Cytobel said:

I have seen on NUMEROUS occasions Corpus foes break out BEFORE I can even finish my animation.

A bug report would be the way to go with that, that's not supposed to happen at all.

[Vafthrudnir]

13 hours ago, God_is_a_Cat_Girl said:

A bug report would be the way to go with that, that's not supposed to happen at all.

Not a bug, it's a feature, Volt sucks.

[Cytobel]

14 hours ago, God_is_a_Cat_Girl said:

A bug report would be the way to go with that, that's not supposed to happen at all.

That's no bug.

It's called "Discharge's damage cap" and it's a TERRIBLE nerf to the 'Frame

[Cytobel]

On 8/19/2017 at 8:01 AM, BarneyD2 said:

*snip*  Additionally, with the exception of Capacitance, a couple of his other augment mods suffer from "Why isn't this just part of the base ability" syndrome, specifically Shocking Speed and Transistor Shield  *snip*

I agree with Shocking Speed, but WHY THE HELL do I want other players picking up my shields?  I'm not trying to jump you or anything, but HELL NO!

Oh, the other bits to it weren't AWFUL, but that one thing means I'm not using it, ever.  I'm not subjecting my team to that (unless they say "it can't be THAT bad" or similar crap), and I'm not giving trolls more ways to screw with me.  Also, I'm including malicious stupidity into trolling here, just because it's a thing I've witnessed too often.

I would also argue that the idea of Volt as a Speed buff dispensor is a clear indicator something is WRONG with him.  A 'Frame should do more than just 1 thing that's beneficial to the team, ESPECIALLY more than just buff the team.

Oh, and while I disagree with some of your points, I don't disagree with the sentiment.  I recommend you look at this build (if you have the required mods, otherwish use Vitality in place of Primed Vigor.  This won't fix everything but, when combined with gear that lets you CC and Sataus large numbers of foes quickly, you become much more potent.

Oh, by the way, double-stacking Arcane Barrier is decent. Just an FYI there.

Edited August 20, 2017 by Cytobel

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

31 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

That's no bug.

It's called "Discharge's damage cap" and it's a TERRIBLE nerf to the 'Frame

Except the ability shouldn't do any damage on the initial 4 seconds of the ability and so it shouldn't reach any cap whatsoever.

 

[Vafthrudnir]

1 hour ago, God_is_a_Cat_Girl said:

Except the ability shouldn't do any damage on the initial 4 seconds of the ability and so it shouldn't reach any cap whatsoever.

• Volt emits a powerful electric pulse, any enemies that are hit with the initial pulse or that enter the pulse's area in first 3 / 3 / 4 / 4 seconds after the cast will become stunned and emit arcs of electricity like Tesla Coils, shocking hostiles who come within 4 meters.
• It means that everyone inside the area in those 4 seconds will be shocked, not that it won't do anything for this time.
• How did I write "white"?

Edited August 20, 2017 by giovanniluca

[Ikusias]

What pisses me off most about all this Volt rework fiasco is how DE staff wasted most of it's time on Vol'ts Speed opt-in/opt-out method, then adding the useless riot shield mode instead of rechecking everything else... we ended with a mostly cosmetic rework that broke more than fixed the frame.

What the rework missed completely is that Volt is one of the starting frames, it should be easy to use and moddable to be strong at endgame once the players get access to better mods, at the same time should be able to let you learn how to balance the needs of it's powers and survivability mods... it fails, badly, at all of this.

Prior to and during the rework the community posted a lot of interesting ideas, none were ever considered by the staff, all feedback except praise for a badly done work was considered.

What hurts is the fact that DE showed that they can do reworks done right, look at Hidroid, there's no justification for the crapsack mess they left Volt in.

And I have jet to see any of DE developers responsible for this mess answer here in the forums and get deservedly criticized by the community considering how mediocre the work done on Volt was.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Ikusias
corrected a few tiping tipos

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

1 hour ago, Ikusias said:

What pisses me off most about all this Volt rework fiasco is how DE staff wasted most of it's time on Vol'ts Speed opt-in/opt-out method, then adding the useless riot shield mode instead of rechecking everything else... we ended with a mostly cosmetic rework that broke more than fixed the frame.

What the rework missed completely is that Volt is one of the starting frames, it should be easy to use and moddable to be strong at endgame once the players get access to better mods, at the same time should be able to let you learn how to balance the needs of it's powers and survivability mods... it fails, badly, at all of this.

Prior to and during the rework the community posted a lot of interesting ideas, none were ever considered by the staff, all feedback except praise for a badly done work was considered.

What hurts is the fact that DE showed that they can do reworks done right, loock at Hidroid, there's no justification for the crapsack mess they left Volt in.

And I have jet to see any of DE developers responsible for this mess answer here in the forums and get deservedly criticized by the community considering how mediocre the work done on Volt was.

Look back at page 35,36 and 37 of this.

Edited August 24, 2017 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Edit

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

On 8/19/2017 at 7:27 PM, giovanniluca said:

I don't like Hydroid changes tbh, wrong turns. Ok to work on Volt but not like that.

What was wrong?:( im trying to picture this. The only thing i see people complaining about is undertow, but they talk as if the whole kit was messed up. No examples that really make sense are given.

And people being upset about hydroids undertow doesnt make sense to me either, unless they were also upset about Saryn keeping toxic lash as an ability after her "rework". And i dont remember anyone making half as much of a fuss.

Im trying to put things in perspective. Toxic lash is a gimmick. Its less useful than some augment mods are other frames have for their actual abilities. 

As far as hydroid goes, he was reworked without any limitations added (that i know of). Thats a first for DE. A first. Well, oberon wasnt bad either...

Undertow is better and more useful than cloud walker (pretty much the same ability). Its still the campiest ability ever made, but its there. Somehow loki gets away with having duration based invisibility as an ability instead of something closer to the archwing variant of him, and people will tell you he is fine as is, but people are losing their minds over undertow...???

And Volt? Thats makes this super easy by comparison. This is how you know DE didnt mess up hydroid. 

There are lots of horrible abilities and terrible frames, but this one horrible frame with terrible abilities is not as horrible or terrible anymore. I dont get what was messed up. But its probably because i wasnt a hydroid main.

 

[Cryone]

I'm glad that this thread is still in some way discussed, and there's still some pity little chance that devs will notice and make some thoughts about re-rework Volt. And now, as always, we will wait when it happens. 
PATIENTLY! 

[Xyhon]

3 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

What was wrong?:( im trying to picture this. The only thing i see people complaining about is undertow, but they talk as if the whole kit was messed up. No examples that really make sense are given.

And people being upset about hydroids undertow doesnt make sense to me either, unless they were also upset about Saryn keeping toxic lash as an ability after her "rework". And i dont remember anyone making half as much of a fuss.

Im trying to put things in perspective. Toxic lash is a gimmick. Its less useful than some augment mods are other frames have for their actual abilities. 

As far as hydroid goes, he was reworked without any limitations added (that i know of). Thats a first for DE. A first. Well, oberon wasnt bad either...

Undertow is better and more useful than cloud walker (pretty much the same ability). Its still the campiest ability ever made, but its there. Somehow loki gets away with having duration based invisibility as an ability instead of something closer to the archwing variant of him, and people will tell you he is fine as is, but people are losing their minds over undertow...???

And Volt? Thats makes this super easy by comparison. This is how you know DE didnt mess up hydroid. 

There are lots of horrible abilities and terrible frames, but this one horrible frame with terrible abilities is not as horrible or terrible anymore. I dont get what was messed up. But its probably because i wasnt a hydroid main.

 

Well, umm, at least you can PUT that shield in place to protect something. IE, yourself casting ;) Also, I know 4th is damage capped, but, it still is more reliable than Hydroids barrage + tentacles in terms of some CC considering it ignores terrain. DE tends to forget, that minority which actually likes rework, is playing on such low levels, that any frame with no mods would do... And sure, we can take any frame to Sortie level. But then, it becomes tedious job to do, not actually enjoyable playstyle.

For me, Volt lacks the trademark it was given. Speed. It is nowhere near the speed he had back then, and reducing his capability to be flash in this game with shield picked up by even more nerfs to movement, is just wrong. Also, dependencies which require you to build him all around, cripple him even more.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

13 minutes ago, Xyhon said:

Well, umm, at least you can PUT that shield in place to protect something. IE, yourself casting ;) Also, I know 4th is damage capped, but, it still is more reliable than Hydroids barrage + tentacles in terms of some CC considering it ignores terrain. DE tends to forget, that minority which actually likes rework, is playing on such low levels, that any frame with no mods would do... And sure, we can take any frame to Sortie level. But then, it becomes tedious job to do, not actually enjoyable playstyle.

For me, Volt lacks the trademark it was given. Speed. It is nowhere near the speed he had back then, and reducing his capability to be flash in this game with shield picked up by even more nerfs to movement, is just wrong. Also, dependencies which require you to build him all around, cripple him even more.

When volts ult was reworked, it was limited by the terrain as well. The new spread mechanic they had planned for it didnt work right, and it took them a few weeks. Im not saying that you should have your hopes up, but they sometimes fix these things. 

 

 

[Vafthrudnir]

5 hours ago, Ikusias said:

Vol'ts Speed opt-in/opt-out method, then adding the useless riot shield mode instead of rechecking everything else... we ended with a mostly cosmetic rework that broke more than fixed the frame.

Considering people still hate speed, it was a huge waste of time, cosmetic rework? The animations look all worse from when they removed the phys x from him, also old shield  was the best, all they had to do was to remove the central rod from it and make it larger.

5 hours ago, Ikusias said:

What the rework missed completely is that Volt is one of the starting frames

Volt is not good to be a starter, you need 300% power strenght to start to feel "fast", how can a new player get that much? Also base Volt is unplayable with that power capacity.

5 hours ago, Ikusias said:

Prior to and during the rework the community posted a lot of interesting ideas, none were ever considered by the staff, all feedback except praise for a badly done work was considered.

The rework was a hurried mess, like Mag's, look at her magnetize animation it looks horrible.

5 hours ago, Ikusias said:

What hurts is the fact that DE showed that they can do reworks done right, loock at Hidroid

Hydro rework is not good, he'll be nerfed after prime eventually.

4 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

What was wrong?:( im trying to picture this. The only thing i see people complaining about is undertow, but they talk as if the whole kit was messed up. No examples that really make sense are given.

Hydroid got stupid as banshee 4 gameplay, Just in a more localized area.

People on hydroid wanted the damn mark on death for loot on pilfering swarm, which people want on every frame that has a mechanic like this(Mag, Oberon, Trinity 1 augment?)

They also wanted for him to carry enemies with his pool around and not release them when he moves a little, also for loots to drown in the pool.

Apparently DE has a thing for this"when you move/heal you consume extra energy" citing oberon 3 and curative undertow here, other healers don't have these xentity extra costs.

They could've fused hydro 2 and 3 together to go in a water movement mode or something, 2 is only used to move around anyway and no one is ever gonna use the mod that removes statuses, his 3 makes him immune already.

[Vafthrudnir]

1 hour ago, Xyhon said:

For me, Volt lacks the trademark it was given. Speed.

Volt is an electrict frame but has lowly to do about electricity, shields? sublight speed?

[Xyhon]

1 hour ago, giovanniluca said:

Volt is an electrict frame but has lowly to do about electricity, shields? sublight speed?

Again in English please? Can't quite figure out what You have in mind?

[Vafthrudnir]

12 minutes ago, Xyhon said:

English please?

1 hour ago, giovanniluca said:

Volt is an electricity frame but has lowly to do anything about electricity or shields? and goes at

sublight speed?

I lost some parts of the post while writing in a mission.

[Xyhon]

Volt used to be speed frame. You used him to run around enemies, and make party go zoom. Now his builds are mediocre, they can't be really diverse, and also, you can't build negative power Volt for max range and CC, because it affects his movement speed and his CC capability with dmg cap on skill.

[Vafthrudnir]

7 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

What was wrong?

AAAlso I forgot the aspect of corroding barrage which should be integrated to the base ability and the frequency of cannons should scale with power strenght, and the charge mechanism pretty much nerfed all the other skills.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

6 minutes ago, giovanniluca said:

AAAlso I forgot the aspect of corroding barrage which should be integrated to the base ability and the frequency of cannons should scale with power strenght, and the charge mechanism pretty much nerfed all the other skills.

How? You cant just say something vague like that. How were the other abilities negatively impacted?

I agree with some points previously posted. 2 and 3 could have been merged, but DE likes to limit things like that. Volts riot sheild and Excaliburs exalted blade come to mind.

Edited August 25, 2017 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Edit

[Vafthrudnir]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

How? You cant just say something vague like that. How were the other abilities negatively impacted?

You now require natural talent to spam cast 1 and it takes more time to cast 4, also uncharged abilities are way smaller than before the revisit.

And they also nerfed puddle radius with the revisit with the possibility to move 1m/h.

Edited August 25, 2017 by giovanniluca

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

2 minutes ago, giovanniluca said:

You now require natural talent to spam cast 1 and it takes more time to cast 4, also uncharged abilities are way smaller than before the revisit.

Ah, i do use natural talent... But im glad that they didnt implement out right power cast delays. I do use stretch...but again, im glad they didnt have some befuddled range cap on one of his abilities. It could be so much worse. It has been. For so long...

DE for some reason always, always has to find some limitation to add to a frame when they rework them. I believe this to be fact. I think they use a point system like dungeons and dragons or fallouts special and roll dice to decide how many points an ability has.

You know they are going to limit something, everytime they touch a frame, there is some limit. But these limits are nothing compared to the training wheels and foam padded helmet they stuck on volt.

Maybe im being too stubborn. But what limitations were you expecting? Because they always limit something. Even Frost, the golden child with perfect rework and perfect augment mods was limited to 4 snowglobes and his first ability is still slightly silly...

[Vafthrudnir]

Just now, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Ah, i do use natural talent... But im glad that they didnt implement out right power cast delays. I do use stretch...but again, im glad they didnt have some befuddled range cap on one of his abilities. It could be so much worse. It has been. For so long...

DE for some reason always, always has to find some limitation to add to a frame when they rework them. I believe this to be fact. I think they use a point system like dungeons and dragons or fallouts special and roll dice to decide how many points an ability has.

You know they are going to limit something, everytime they touch a frame, there is some limit. But these limits are nothing compared to the training wheels and foam padded helmet they stuck on volt.

Maybe im being too stubborn. But what limitations were you expecting? Because they always limit something. Even Frost, the golden child with perfect rework and perfect augment mods was limited to 4 snowglobes and his first ability is still slightly silly...

They also limited the number of electric shields, you know they are so op. Well Octavia is unlimited still.