Volt Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[Exodess]

1 hour ago, Lijka said:

Riiiight, because Saryn is totally not one of the highest damage frames now.

On what data is this based? Let's observe the top-of-the-line nuker, the Nova. 

• Nova has an AoE Damage Multiplier.
• Nova has AoE CC (Slow). 
• Nova has higher damage.
• Nova has beneficial utility powers.

Any frame whose powers are spec'd for damage or AoE is immediately going to be considered a "Nuker" role, which means that any time you run a Raid, it is going to be competing with other frames in the same role. To consider a class balanced, you have to ask yourself: If I were running The Law of Retribution and we needed a Nuker, would I bring A) Volt, B) Saryn, or C) Nova. Be honest now -- which one would you pick and why?

If you can't imagine any raid scenario where you would bring a particular frame in favor of another, it is not considered balanced.

If the Devs finally start nerfing the high-end frames, I'll reconsider my aggressive position on their balancing decisions. Until then, it's clear that they aren't considering the optimum content to balance Warframes on (or if they are, they definitely aren't balancing them on high-end content, this despite actively producing high-end content.) I can only imagine the uproar that would happen if the bread-and-butter frames got swatted by the dreaded bat.

Edited May 27, 2016 by Exodess

[Toramaru]

Why are we even giving feedback on ES?! Who cares about that garbage!

Where's my FoV on Speed, the Duration increase (much needed), making it a self buff so other people stop complaining about being buffed (first game in my gaming career I see people complaining about speed increase. SERIOUSLY...)!

Shock's stun time is still unmoddable...

We already knew this was coming, but having it patched like this is repulsive. "Potent alternative to gunplay"...

[Stratego89]

1 hour ago, OverlordMcGeek said:

His survivability is over the top with the capacitance mod.

This. This is the FIRST thing I checked (surprisingly enough to me) when I saw it was changed. I'd considered that it would need rebalancing but I was surprised at how spot-on of a job they did with it. I always felt it needed a slight buff to % but the new balance matches that slight buff perfectly in comparison to the old one.

[Toramaru]

2 minutes ago, Rekkou said:

DE clearly won't balance any warframe to be press 4 to win anymore, you should get used to it because they will not revert it back and other warframes will receive the same treatment sooner or later.

This is actually good. I like that Idea, never bothered to use Overload anyways,

Issue is they shouldn't have called this a rework. It is a flat out nerf.

[Stratego89]

2 minutes ago, Toramaru said:

Why are we even giving feedback on ES?! Who cares about that garbage!

ES... garbage. This guy's opinions on volt are not worth the electricity they cost to view on your computer screen people. Move on, nothing to see here.

[RazulDarkwood]

The rework is not bad for my style of gameplay, however I don't like that picking up the shield drains my energy SOOOOOO FAST! What the hell is that all about? Not only that I still have its time limit on the shield but it eats my energy with the speed of me eating food when I'm really hungry. :D

Joke aside, remove or reduce the energy consumption please. This is absurd and makes using that option way too costly. If you want see how much exalted blade consumes energy and make as close to that.

(Excalibur consume 1.13 per sec with exalted blade, while my shield consumes 3.50! Please do explain the logic in that.)

Edited May 27, 2016 by RazulDarkwood

[Kyrak_Drakhar]

Ok, i played around with Volt some more.

1. Shock: no change here, though i would like to be able to mod it with Power range to increase the amount of enemies your able to chain to. Or possibly mod for duration to increase the time proc'd.

2. Speed: The speed drop idea is ok, though it does not work well in team play as your teammates would need to go back to find it since with Volts 1.0 speed, he will probably be in the back of the group. An option to fix this is to say hold the interact button to accept buff to yourself (non volt players), or to be able to recast Speed on the fly. So if volt is in the back/behind the team, he could cast speed, sprint past teammates then recast speed again to allow them to continue on and  get Speed without stopping.

3. Electric Shield: I like whats been done to it, and the RES is awesome. The energy drain is fine (though it could be a "bit" lower) with it as to balance it since its still indestructible.

4:Discharge: I like they way it functions, and the CC is pretty big but it does (to my eyes) too little dmg for an ult. It does not need to be a press 4 to clear power (nor do i want it to be), but it should function like a dmg ult until late game where it tapers off into more of a cc ult. Its also random in the enemies it selects, it should either prioritize higher danger potential enemies or proc on everyone in range. Though probably my biggest complaint is that we are unable to cast midair.

 

TL;DR - I like the way the direction he has been taken, but i believe he needs some QoL changes and some tweaks to his kit. As Scott said, he wants Mag and Volt to be on par with Excaliburs lvl of rework. With a little more work i believe he can be. (not dmg wise)

[Tricky5hift]

Little disappointed with the energy drain on Volt's shield whenever he carries it.

There's already a time limit AND it slows you down.

Really seems a little excessive for just being able to hold your shield.

[Drufo]

I have tested him in the simulacrum and I concluded that:

-his passive is really nice and original, even though I'd like it affects only abilities or weapons with electric damage, because it's difficult to get high numbers when you use fast firing weapons, and it's a bit of a waste

-shock is nice as it was before

-I welcome the changes to this ability. Volt should never be left behind by mates ;) It could have been the opportunity to give a little more duration though (something like 15 s would be fine IMO)

-Electric Shield is really nice looking and protects against AoE (finally!), but the pick-up has too many downsides. They should get rid of at least one. Also, when using Shock on it, could it have a little stun/chance to proc? A proof that it actually did something to the enemy...

-Discharge is nice... it does a lot of damage (exept high level Grineer because of that freakin' armor) making Capacitance really shine, but I don't like that the more the enemies are closer and clustered, the less it will last. I tried with a bunch of enemies in the simulacrum and the stun lasted for 1 sec! Lastly, I hardly noticed a difference in Shock when cast on Tesla Coils. edit -  a big problem I saw is that it doesn't expands in 3D nor it follows terrain, so if you're higher than your enemies, you totally waste your energy

                -edit 2- after reading many comments about Discharge, I'm starting to ask who's the one who understand how it works. Many says the damage is less when enemies are far away, but from my tests the damage is the same no matter the distance enemy-to-enemy. What changes is how fast an enemy is damaged: faster when they are clustered, slower when they are alone. Who is right?

Edited May 28, 2016 by Drufo

[hawk2251]

10 minutes ago, Kyrak_Drakhar said:

Ok, i played around with Volt some more.

1. Shock: no change here, though i would like to be able to mod it with Power range to increase the amount of enemies your able to chain to. Or possibly mod for duration to increase the time proc'd.

2. Speed: The speed drop idea is ok, though it does not work well in team play as your teammates would need to go back to find it since with Volts 1.0 speed, he will probably be in the back of the group. An option to fix this is to say hold the interact button to accept buff to yourself (non volt players), or to be able to recast Speed on the fly. So if volt is in the back/behind the team, he could cast speed, sprint past teammates then recast speed again to allow them to continue on and  get Speed without stopping.

3. Electric Shield: I like whats been done to it, and the RES is awesome. The energy drain is fine (though it could be a "bit" lower) with it as to balance it since its still indestructible.

4:Discharge: I like they way it functions, and the CC is pretty big but it does (to my eyes) too little dmg for an ult. It does not need to be a press 4 to clear power (nor do i want it to be), but it should function like a dmg ult until late game where it tapers off into more of a cc ult. Its also random in the enemies it selects, it should either prioritize higher danger potential enemies or proc on everyone in range. Though probably my biggest complaint is that we are unable to cast midair.

 

TL;DR - I like the way the direction he has been taken, but i believe he needs some QoL changes and some tweaks to his kit. As Scott said, he wants Mag and Volt to be on par with Excaliburs lvl of rework. With a little more work i believe he can be. (not dmg wise)

I highly Agree with this, but as for discharge i feel like its lacking alot. Its damage is fine apart from the lack of power strength you need for duration for this ult to work at all but also the Damage takes way to long to kick in then it feels like it should. I really enjoy this change but i dont think its quite up there to the standard of other frames still. Perhaps increase the rate of damage or perhaps a % of instant damage then into ticks rather then having to wait a good minute or 3 before they take any damage

[----Dante----]

can Volt get an additional passive thou?

like lighting dash for example?

[Schnips]

Dear Digital Extremes,

do you realize that Warframe is a game with a very fast movement system?

So why do you force us to stay on the same place to prevent this ridiculous energy consumption per meter.

If you pick up the shield you are still vulnerable from behind, so it's neccessary to stay in motion

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2016 by Schnips

[SultanofSnipe]

So...the Volt Rework we have all been looking forward to is here. Aaaaand, it has a ton of problems that Volt didn't even have before. I will make this in a list form from some testing I have done so far, though these could be bugs.

• Shock: Can't tell any differences in it to be honest though the text is different and says it does more damage to the initial target. Still TBD but not a huge deal.
• Speed: The main thing I am noticing is the delay before it even kicks in now. It takes about .5 seconds or so to even bump up the speed boost, which could be a bug or working as intended, either way, it's very annoying and after years of playing Volt, is something that shouldn't be a thing. Please if anyone is looking at this feedback, look into it. The other part ties somewhat into his 3rd ability.
• Shield: Great work on the visual and the pick up animation is smooth and fast, kudos. This ability is better overall, but has some flaws. One of which in my opinion is the decrease in speed when you have an active shield held. Simply why? Why does the frame that is about movement and speed need to be slowed down by his own shield? This makes no sense to me and the whole point of the shield being a pick up was to increase mobility, not give him some, but dial it back cause he just isn't a tank type of frame. Another thing is that teammates can't pick up a shield. I can somewhat see why, cause it does have the smell of ultimate defense tactic to it that can be abused, but I think he should be able to have a bit more team play through this ability rather than just CC. He almost feels like Wukong in that he has limited team play now. The last thing that seems rather high is the energy cost of actually holding the shield. If we look at some other abilities that drain energy, I think the only 3rd ability that drains energy is Prowl, someone correct me if I'm wrong, and that drains 3 energy a second at max base. Then the other close ability is Cloud Walker from Wukong which is 5 energy per second at max base. These two abilities make the frames invisible and at least on Ivara, it adds multiple benefits, but the big thing here is they become unseen and won't draw attention. Which Wukong becomes completely invulnerable in his state, though slowed. The thing I'm getting at here is that Volt gains the benefits of the shield as far as increased critical rate and damage along with electric status, but at the cost of being slower and not as protected as them along with a rather high energy cost.
• Discharge: Hmm. Was great on paper, but it seems as though it lost a lot of luster in game. Firstly, the spread speed is fantastic. Now the problems I see with it. The biggest one of which is that this ability can only be cast on the ground, which I guess that makes sense science wise..but this is Warframe!! You can no longer cast it in the air which is a huge drawback. Then we have the damage and proximity range which the proximity range is okay, could stand to be a bit further, maybe a meter or two. Though the damage is good at first glance, after a bit, you notice it only does great damage in crowds, which brings me back to the first point I mentioned. Solo enemies with nothing to shock take damage in long intervals and sometimes it seems as though they either go through their duration prematurely or another factor is "kicking" them out of it like certain weapons, abilities or damage types like blast. The short delay before they start taking damage is also something I think needs to be addressed. Please don't get me wrong, but this ability in comparison with what Mag got is just sad. It doesn't seem to scale well on corpus higher than rank 40 and anything with a resistance or armor just laughs at it above rank 40 unless you pile on ton of power strength to get a few more ranks that it's able to kill. The ability should lower resistance to electrical damage to some degree for better scaling cause even the health scaling that it's supposed to have seems like it doesn't even work. Even shocking them with his Shock seems to do nothing.

I guess what I'm getting at is that this rework is welcomed, the amount of cons that came with it seem to outweigh the pros. I've been a Volt lover since day one and think he is a fine frame. I don't want some overpowered frame that can one shot rank 200 grineer with ease, all I would like to see is a frame that can scale with the battle and do just fine with some skill and currently, that isn't what Volt got. He has some problems now that somewhat contradict his theme and builds. Which if you build for duration which three of his abilities benefit from, you lose out on damage and range, because he isn't the greatest frame for survival and you only have so much space to work with. If you build for power strength, you get great 1st, 2nd and 4th abilities, but you still lose out on damage and range. I can keep going but I think the cons of his abilities that got reworked prevent a really solid build for him, because you are almost forced to build a certain way if you simply wish to survive now. Though at the end of the day this is personal choice, I think it's pretty clear that most people will try to better all their abilities to the fullest rather than having a one trick pony with Volt. If the range on Discharge was a bit better, then we could have more to work with, but it still suffers the problem of being on the ground to cast it and subjecting yourself to damage rather than being able to soar through the air and reign down destruction on dudes. One more thing though....his passive...please delete this idea an never speak of it again lol. It's horrible, Energy Channel is horrible and much better if you want a one hit bonus on your melee. At least give it a duration or make it scale higher and faster so you can pick off a heavy with your melee to ease tension on the battle.

Thank you for your hard work DE! Been a fan of this game for over three years now and will remain a fan...unless you guys mess up Banshee..then all bets are off. Continue to have fun and give us players a great game!!

Edited May 28, 2016 by SultanofSnipe
typos

[Faeduin]

This is going to be long and I won't be offering a TL;DR, if you are here you should care enough to read it and if you don't, it's not meant for you anyway.

I've been with Warframe for quite a while now and I've primarily played Volt over my almost 1800 hours in the game, I consider myself a master with him and use him even when others think it's foolish. On some occasions (the very tiny amount I play public) I'll even be insulted for it but I shrug it off and continue on to shock the doubt out of them.

 I have stayed completely silent on the subject of his changes, watching the opinions and threads many of which begging him to be left alone (which I'll say I do not agree with here and now, he did need some adjustments) while trying to remain optimistic that any change would indeed be for the better and reserving any final judgement.

 So here I am adding my voice to the growing pile. I will not say he is broken, because I honestly do not believe he is, but some of the changes have had a negative impact where I was hoping for a positive one. 

 First up, Shock and Volt's new passive: Shock largely has stayed the same, coupled with the new passive it can put out some impressive numbers, though you'll never want to waste it on an ability as long as it can be used with weapons. Is this a bug? If isn't it needs to be seriously reconsidered, by far the most prevalent playstyle with Volt is high mobility and this encourages you to still go fast (albeit while grounded, effectively punishing you for jumping or being airborne...) but actively discourages you from attacking too soon to get any benefit from it. The passive in my opinion should work while in motion period and only affect abilities and in different ways: for Shock the extra damage is fine; for Speed increase it's effect and/or duration; For Shield increase it's size and/or duration; For Discharge increase it's radius and/or make the coils tick faster on targets.

 Speed is also largely the same, the people I do play with on a regular basis will appreciate not being forced into receiving Speed though I'm not sure plopping out a buff on the ground is the best solution in a game where mobility is the most emergent aspect. As others have said, Speed needs to be re-castable or we need to see a concrete excuse as to why it is not or won't be, personally I feel that if I want to chug gas (energy) by revving my engine (recasting) I should be allowed to do so.

 -Edit: After running with a squad I constantly had to communicate when I was about to drop Speed as, for some ridiculous reason I'll never know, Volt's base sprint speed is 1.0. So you are either forced to run Rush and/or Armored Agility and parkour like a demon (which again is now discouraged on Volt) to insure you are in front of squad mates or be in constant verbal communication so they know to stop, turn around, find the pick up and then finally continue on which is arguably slower then just ignoring it completely.-

Electric Shield, I LOVE the new design on it, much easier to see through and actually looks like it would stop a space bullet. The new mechanic of being able to pick it up is brilliant and I have been having a blast with it. However, again as others have said, the energy drain increasing and movement speed reduction while in motion is ridiculous and again discourages Volt's entire raison d'être. To clarify again, the energy drain itself is absolutely fine and even needed with such a powerful addition to the ability but the movement speed reduction and increasing energy drain on movement need to be removed.

 Discharge, after first playing around with this I was left shaking my head in disbelief. The mechanic itself is fine and I love the idea, it isn't just straight up boring damage being radiated out with a light CC effect anymore. However I can't stress how disappointed I am with the clunky ability radius and what I can only hope is bugged damage spread. Clustered with a large group of various Corpus units it took 1.8 seconds for the first crewman to die from the tesla coils, it took 3.8 seconds for an Corpus Tech unit to die from the coils, if this is not bugged what the hell is it balanced around? I can think of no other frame's offensive ultimate that takes that long to kill anything and this is besides the fact that in that time frame, if you happen to play with others, that enemy would most likely be killed by them before your power even achieved half of it's lethality. The passive in my short testing spree also had no effect on Discharge at all.

 All in all I feel the biggest disappointment is in his passive, being applied to weapons takes away from an interesting synergy with the frame itself and in fact, furthers Volt away from his redundant tagline of a 'potent alternative to gunplay' while simultaneously discouraging parkour maneuvers, it ends up being more restricting then amplifying.

 If you stayed with me through all of this, thank you. I love this world and Volt has been my reliable transportation through it for 3 years now so I unabashedly am passionate about him. 

Edited May 28, 2016 by Kedai

[clemza]

1 hour ago, [DE]Danielle said:

 Speed: Speed most noticeably has had its FOV reduced on cast, which should help with motion sickness complaints. Other players in range now get to 'opt-in' to Volt's Speed buff, by activating a pickup that Volt leaves behind on cast. This activation occurs on contact.

This is so bad, now how do we speed run things ? Like i have to search for the speed buff if its not on my way ...

I feel useless with the speed buff now, i don't know why i would use volt if nobody take the speed buff ... Nobody use my nova speed buff augment when i use it, because they don't bother going in the portal . if they missed it ...

 

At least if the duration was inceased, maybe it could work.

 

 

[Cytobel]

Lets start with the damages.

1.) Shock:  No major changes here, so this move hasn't gotten anything useful in terms of CC capability or damage.  I LOVE Shock, don't get me wrong, but that won't make it worth using in level 15+ missions.

2.) Speed:  No Shocking Speed built in.  I care not what happens to other people's experience when I cast speed, but all I'm getting are "why play him?" or "wtf is wrong with you, drop speed buff close 2 me" crap.  Basically, a bone of contention has been made WORSE.

3.) Electric Shield:  Okay, here's where things get a bit "meh".  If I COMPLETELY IGNORE THE ABILITY TO CARRY SHIELD, then it's been visually and mechanically overhauled to function more usefully (aside from the fact that it detonates grenades, so instagibs a-HO!).  IF I PICK IT UP Electric Shield eats my entire energy pool in seconds, even with duration and effeciency.  Basically, NEVER PICK IT UP, so that function is worthless.

4.)  Overload:  Nerfed abilities make me sad.  New Overload does no real damage, has no real range, can't be cast in air, and is generally a waste of an ability.  If it scales to be equally useless to all enemies then cool, I will never know.

Passive.):  Great story.  Great concept.  It hasn't been implemented at ALL, so far as I can see.  Maybe it's because it ever procs off me shooting things, so it's a buff to gun damages that were already FAR beyond the relm of a piddly little boost to electric damage.  Maybe it's because I don't have a way to tell if it's even frikkin there.

Stat-wise:  Volt is still up the creek, still requiring 200%+ Strength, all the duration EVER (at LEAST 200%+, no joke whatsoever), and non-prime still needs Effeciency cap.  Only now we HAVE TO HAVE RANGE TOO, since we have to build Range to support an Ult that feels less threatening than a pile of old laundry.  Worse, we HAVE TO DO THAT, because this BARELY FUNCTIONAL ULT IS OUR ONLY TOOL!!!

TL;DR:  Welcome to 2012, where Volt just spams Overload all the time, BUT DON'T WORRY ASH, HE'LL NEVER GET KILLS ANYWAY.  No need to even Bladestorm, just use ANY GUN and be more effective than Volt ever...

---------------------------------------------

What's sad about this is that it's so many intuitive decisions bludgeoned by a circus of nerfs.  Volt isn't playable.

EDIT:  I HATE myself for saying this, but I need to see if there's a way to make this work.  I have to test this.....  hot mess...  

So, one thing I've noted is that Volt now needs something new:  He HAS to have something to move, attract, or somehow group enemies.  Previously this was kind of peripheral, but now it's utterly required to make what little he has do anything at all...

 

Edited May 28, 2016 by Cytobel

[Ciaus]

I'm just here to talk about his 4. 
Discharge. It is... pretty close to useless. Volt used to be really great to quick-clear low and mid-tier content, and provide solid damage against corpus. But now the damage is so terrible that even with light crowding of enemies it does nothing. 

I just ran a T1 Exterminate with 256% power strength and I couldn't consistently kill T1 butchers. On top of this the small radius and being super-vulnerable just make it not worth building for (WAAAIIII no cast while airborne? I got chills from Vaulting above a crowd and mentally screaming "I am THE GOD THUNDER" while raining sweet electric death on them. Now I sit grounded and die).

Also Overload is a cooler name than discharge. 

Suggestion:
Return overload, but make enemies still act like Tesla coils for a brief time. If you do keep discharge the damage, tesla tick speed and range all need to go up and the no airborne casting needs to go. 

[Kyrak_Drakhar]

2 minutes ago, Ciaus said:

(WAAAIIII no cast while airborne? I got chills from Vaulting above a crowd and mentally screaming "I am THE GOD THUNDER" while raining sweet electric death on them. Now I sit grounded and die).

 

This, so much this. I absolutely loved bullet-jumping into the air then dive bombing into an overload. Me sad now. =(

[AutoPhox]

Wow! Volt is really fun to play! I dont mind the energy drain on the shield because i dont expect to carry it around forever. I just use it to brawl with a fresh spawn of enemies, then drop it like a mic.

[Aquasurge]

honestly, discharge needs and animation update so that when you cast it in air, lightning strikes the enemies

[Terrilocks]

Volt rework makes me sad. :(
Edit: Although not as sad as I initially thought. :P

Speed
Adding bonus reload speed is the best thing about this reworked power and is really just a welcome addition. Making the power-up a drop, however, seems really anti-team and doesn't even solve the problem it set out to fix. Assuming there really are people who don't want a speed buff (for reasons of insanity), they'll still occasionally get the pick-up if Volt casts it directly in front of them and they can't stop in time or if it appears in a narrow doorway/corridor they can't avoid. This seems to be more a problem with game mechanics in general (c.f. Limbo Banish) rather than this specific skill, so I'm not sure why it was included in the "rework". It just makes Speed a less useful team-skill. If you really don't want a speed buff, why don't you just stand still? :P

Shield 
In general, the changes to the shield seem good in that they increase its versatility. I don't think I'm going to be picking it up too often due to the many drawbacks from doing so, but it's a nice option to have.

Overload/Discharge
First thing, the new name is horrible. Type "discharge" into google and most of the hits involve embarrassing medical problems. Not a very good association.
Secondly, the power is now massively inconsistent to the point that I hesitate to cast it. Previously, you watched the wave go out, do a consistent, respectable amount of damage with a reasonable stun and everything was over within a few secs. Now, you cast the power, and the damage output varies massively depending on enemy positioning. The power says the tesla will damage enemies who come within range, but hang on, this is an area power that roots all immediate threats to the spot so no-one's going anywhere. Better hope they were already in range of each other to begin with... In short, I'm really not sure whether this is supposed to be a damage power or a CC power. Everything just seems overly complicated and unreliable and I much prefer the old version.
Edit: After more testing, the new ultimate is not as bad as I initially thought. Overloads damage fell off as enemies become more powerful rendering it almost useless. Discharge's damage also falls off as enemies become more powerful, but at least it now roots them in place. A Duration/Range build with as much Power as you can keep (85% in my case) is still pretty useful.

 

Edited May 28, 2016 by Terrilocks
Changed opinion after more testing.

[Schnickens]

Anyone know if you can regain energy through EV or Zenurik while carrying the shield?

[Guest]

Shield energy drain is acceptable. Shield mobility nerf is not.

Lightning is mainly super heated air called plasma, which means it still weighs as heavy as air itself, which should in absolutely no way hinder Volt's mobility. Riot shields are heavy, but not an electric shield. Fix this already.

[Aquasurge]

1 minute ago, Schnickens said:

Anyone know if you can regain energy through EV or Zenurik while carrying the shield?

not while moving.

[Ciaus]

1 minute ago, Schnickens said:

Anyone know if you can regain energy through EV or Zenurik while carrying the shield?

Someone said that they found Zenurik does work while standing still for sure. Can't remember where the quote was though T.T