General Update 18.13 Discussion

[(PSN)gabitronic02]

On ‎27‎/‎05‎/‎2016 at 6:05 PM, Latiac said:

What was DE thinking with this update. It reminds me alot of the viver crisis a year back, and the forums don't seem happy about it one bit, Every rework since Mesa and Saryn have been very heavy nerfs, I'm not a fan of this trend.

 

Why not revert this update and pretend it never happened?

Excal is pretty much GG from what i've heard.

Mag was already in a coffin and that has now been placed in another.

Don't get me started on Volt either - Dropping speed boosters instead? Volt was used for speed runs and i'm sure no one wants to go back during one of those.

And then there is Trinity. Poor Trinity.

 

Other Deaths :

Mirage? - Added by request

Potentially Valkyr? - Added by Request

 

Now I'm not saying this update doesn't have it's ups. - Mesa is great now. But the downsides far outweigh the ups.
 

 

I think you guys are exagerating, you guys shouldnt be complaining its a FREE game that updates WEEKLY (for PC), what could you want?.

console players have to wait 1-2 months for an update and we didnt even get the complete update! ( we are missing mod capacity scaling with MR).

Bye!!

[(PSN)bad_dreams]

I honestly think that people are overreacting a bit. I say a bit because a lot of this is way past due. Mirage blind is the way it should have been from the start. Exalted blade will be fine, that makes perfect sense. The main problem is as others have said the timing. I'm getting afraid to drop a forma into anything. The changes to the frames will do nothing if the real issue isn't fixed. There are several things that need actual work before the frames. I hate to complain. Warframe is an amazing game and I've played it exclusively since I downloaded it. The devs work does not go unnoticed, the notes and all the crazy small fixes is insane. DE actually seems to value the opinions of the community enough to listen. But instead of nerfing frames and draco etc, let's spend time reworking drop tables, adding something to the derelict missions, another tier in the void. There's no reason for the farm to be that strong. I have always hated the repeating aabc then guess what? Aabc. I'm bored to death at 40-60 waves or minutes trying to farm a part. There has to be a better way. Aabcbcbcbc? Spread some of those parts around or something. 1 planet in the universe that drops neural sensors still? I have to run the SAME mission 3x in a row to get 1 fieldron, really? Put that on a points system, or make a kiosk in maroos bazaar for rare resources that you buy with points from doing invasions. Kind of like ducats from the different factions. I don't get a whole lot of time to play, but when I do I loathe having to spend an entire night running the same crap over aND over. It's torture for the higher Mr players who have the game figured out, but are mainly crafting mastery fodder and formaing frames and stuff.

[Cryostasisprotoss]

5 hours ago, (PS4)bad_dreams said:

I honestly think that people are overreacting a bit. I say a bit because a lot of this is way past due. Mirage blind is the way it should have been from the start. Exalted blade will be fine, that makes perfect sense. The main problem is as others have said the timing. I'm getting afraid to drop a forma into anything. The changes to the frames will do nothing if the real issue isn't fixed. There are several things that need actual work before the frames. I hate to complain. Warframe is an amazing game and I've played it exclusively since I downloaded it. The devs work does not go unnoticed, the notes and all the crazy small fixes is insane. DE actually seems to value the opinions of the community enough to listen. But instead of nerfing frames and draco etc, let's spend time reworking drop tables, adding something to the derelict missions, another tier in the void. There's no reason for the farm to be that strong. I have always hated the repeating aabc then guess what? Aabc. I'm bored to death at 40-60 waves or minutes trying to farm a part. There has to be a better way. Aabcbcbcbc? Spread some of those parts around or something. 1 planet in the universe that drops neural sensors still? I have to run the SAME mission 3x in a row to get 1 fieldron, really? Put that on a points system, or make a kiosk in maroos bazaar for rare resources that you buy with points from doing invasions. Kind of like ducats from the different factions. I don't get a whole lot of time to play, but when I do I loathe having to spend an entire night running the same crap over aND over. It's torture for the higher Mr players who have the game figured out, but are mainly crafting mastery fodder and formaing frames and stuff.

DE said that with the upcoming update to the starchart would do something about the void. I hope that they do something with the drops too.

[(XBOX)KalDavos]

i live the variety in this game.. i love how theres many different frames with many different playstyles.. 

but then there are the meta frames.. it sucks how with all the variety there is always 1 valkyr in every squad.. always 1 Excalibur being a turret.. you see my point here?

the game loses its variety once a frame is mas exploited until the game loses any fun. 

this is why im thankful for the changes it keeps the game evolving.. sure its not perfect.. but it will continue to evolve.. thanks DE 

[(PSN)arkain07]

So pretty much what happened is Blessings Trinity can't make everything Immortal for the entire mission.

Mirage can't blind through walls.

Biggest 2 hits and people complain.

Yes at first I was a bit upset about Trinity's nerf but was needed. Now not everyone can cheese the raids. Mirage is still good none the less. I still run her and just has to throw her blind around now. Just add in more CC.

 

Everything else is fine and all these things needed to happen. Basically people just want to get things done and get out rather than run it the way it was meant to be ran.  

 

I do however feel we need more things for archwing. Its kinda lacking in mods and the Archwings itself. So pretty much going to run things with people with more skill based rather than cheese everything. Its still free to play. So 0 complaints from me and love the new banshee skin. 

 

Trinity will still be useful for her EV and bless still heals just need to be in range. So she will still be useful. Mirage still has 2 builds just bling got a small hit.

 

If you need these frames with their OP abilities to play than quit.

[Kaltriya]

Being a Long Time Trinity Player (Almost exclusively Since I started playing some 6+ months ago) I feel 2 things to the changes imposed on Blessing:

1: Over correction.  Limit the range by all means.  That makes some kind of sense and might even encourage Team Play.  Trinity Heals being omnipresent was always a little God Mode-ish.  But to go so far as to, AT THE SAME TIME, nerf the damage reduction by a entire square root seems a bit harsh.  Particularly before evaluating the degree of the "Balance" that just limiting the range will affect.  I feel like Trinity, though still playable, went from being The Final Word in Team Support, to being the Paragon of Marshmellow Multi-tasking.....  And Trinity is the primary reason why I play and spend money in this game.  I love healy support characters that at the same time can hold their own.  Trinity could do that without giving me a headache before.  Now?  Not so much, stay tuned and we'll find out just how much of a headache.

 

2: I feel like nerfing what basically amounts to the only major support frame in the game, basically to save fixing a few key other features added after the fact (Raids notably since this is, as other people have mentioned where most of this cheese was being directed), is quite frankly Lazy, uninventive, counter-intuitive, and ultimately an insult to yourselves.  Changing something for theme reasons, or for truly accidental Over Power Creation is one thing.  But Trinity has been the way she has been since release.  Now you guys add Raids, decide that the way you had Trinity from creation breaks your new toy, so nerf her instead of fixing the new toy to fit?  If Trinity was that OP?  I would question why not just make the raids that much more demanding to fit what you guys obviously thought at the time was a good way for Trinity to be in the first place?  Is this WarFrame (Warfarm, w/e), or War-until-we-come-out-with-something-new-then-make-everything-else-fit-around-it?  This is mostly a complaint about seemingly poor fore-thinking or beta testing or wherever the failure here was to plan ahead with Raids.  You guys really didn't see a Map Wide 100% healing 99% Damage reduction Skill as being something to take into account when you planned raids out on the drawing board??  Really?

I'll reiterate, I actually think the Range limiting makes some kind of sense.  Not just for Range, but for playability of Trin.  Lord knows we've all met EV trins in Draco that sit there and Macro #2 while they watch movies or something and maybe reach over and press #4 once in awhile when they see caps lock letters.....  Personally I think there are too many Cheese heads playing trin that don't have a clue about the better or fun ways she can be played.  But I feel like what has been done, and the way it was done, Is too much, too quickly, and ultimately too far in the wrong direction.

-Kalt

[friendofvampires]

I've said it elsewhere and I'll say it here: I've tested all the reworks/nerfs and:

Mesa: big ol' buff
Mag: Nerfed pretty hard. Her scaling is now flat damage, but magnetize is cool
Volt: better, thought the riot shield drain is too high
Mirage: Deserved it
Excal: I agree with the damage falloff on the beams, but dear god don't make the slide blind cost energy. Take it out or make it free

So that's my tested 2 cents

[Guest]

On 14.6.2016 at 5:22 PM, (XB1)KalDavos said:

i live the variety in this game.. i love how theres many different frames with many different playstyles.. 

but then there are the meta frames.. it sucks how with all the variety there is always 1 valkyr in every squad.. always 1 Excalibur being a turret.. you see my point here?

the game loses its variety once a frame is mas exploited until the game loses any fun. 

this is why im thankful for the changes it keeps the game evolving.. sure its not perfect.. but it will continue to evolve.. thanks DE 

its mostly new players or players which arent the high MR rank

its a need for them after farming and working hard to explode and use their excal and it gives them a feeling of how things are in warframe

im always happy when a mr8 or smth starts freaking out beside my prime frames to show their duties and powers and sometimes i support this all

i like that more then running with socalled pros on MR 20 or more, as im always glad to get a helping hand im always ready to give a helping hand for sharing warframe to each other

Edited June 15, 2016 by Guest

[Beatrix7hearts]

This is my opinion on the current state of things...

If DE keeps ignoring the big issue of enemy scaling, WE the players will feel any major rework to be nothing more than a gimp to our favorite frames.

They want us to be more engaging? Then DE should think about what made the frame special in the first place and adjust it to make it more engaging in the game when enemies don't cheese you out of revives. The forgot they made an event that proved how broken the enemy scaling was and why people cheesed the hell out of these abilities, that should have been an eye opener.

 

Mag's Rework: The appeal of being the female magneto is kinda dissipated now. Sure now her Bullet Attractor willl shine but, at what cost? She got plenty of nerfs due bad desicions but to be honest, people only used her for the polarize which was like Molecular Prime for Corpus, which helped her survive. Now it feels weird having the same mechanic as Nova, the reason being that Polarize needs many enemies to be helpful and do good damage. The Attractor Polarize combo will never be as effective though, now she is viable to other factions. My suggestion is to make it so that it pins all enemies that touch the wave and when the wave is gone then BAM the polarize activated its damaging phase. You are rewarded by patience and careful use of something that can now be use quick and sweet or long and destructive. 

Excal's "Nerf": If the moonligh wave (as i call it due to being an armored core fan) is going to have falloff either let it be affected by range mods or have the falloff range of a shotgun. That would be the carrot on top of the stick to make Excal reach the middle range with his sword. The mini bling should be removed, right now its bothersome and I use more the RB and the slide thing just to be funny. 

Trin "Nerf": This most likely will either make her more of a solo player thing or now she will have to be hunting players to get the blessing. The reality is that it would be better if the resistance loss would be gradual. Like if you are at 51 meters from trin, you only get 70% damage reduction at a 99% blessed trinity. At 60 you get down to a 45% and 70 - 25%. This pick your poison range will encourage players to either be close to trin or to benefit of a percentage at their discretion. That will give the fault not to Trin but the player itself for being foolish to not be close to trin when things get though. 

Valkyr seems more or less a stop for god builds that rely on just never get hit or damaged. 

This still doesn't fix the core of the problem: Our enemies as the level progresses They become bullet sponges and our abilities is what keep us alive. DE should adress that before any more reworks should be done. That way I can choose which strategy should be best for me to survive. 

 

Also the reworks will only bring new meta to the game, which then DE will touch and players will go to other builds for meta which sucks! It should be that you use your frame because its fun, right now everyone or most want only to use the meta. I have a friend who just started the game and people who were in MR14 told him stupid stuff to make his first choice Inaros to be good but instead they only just gimped his mod selection. He ran at lvl 1 at draco WITH Mk1 weapon(he only bought Inaros because he liked him) and these mr14 were running Volt Prime Trin Prime and i dont remember the other. They were trying to force the new player to stay on one point and CC the hell out the middle point. Using only melee he saw his partners dying and he went to rescue them constantly while killing enemies. They lost but instead of being happy that a new player who knows nothing more than what they have told him, survive and out killed the enemies than the rest of the group, they, specially the one that had a "Meta" frame blame the loss to him. I had to convince him to leave the game due to this sour experience.

That was a sidenote story but the point still remains, if DE wants us to be engaging make it so that even new players dont feel bad at the choice of their frames when others will tell them "if its not meta its garbage." 

[Kaltriya]

On 6/16/2016 at 4:07 AM, Beatrix7hearts said:

Trin "Nerf": This most likely will either make her more of a solo player thing or now she will have to be hunting players to get the blessing. The reality is that it would be better if the resistance loss would be gradual. Like if you are at 51 meters from trin, you only get 70% damage reduction at a 99% blessed trinity. At 60 you get down to a 45% and 70 - 25%. This pick your poison range will encourage players to either be close to trin or to benefit of a percentage at their discretion. That will give the fault not to Trin but the player itself for being foolish to not be close to trin when things get though. 

Having done quite a bit of experimentation with Trin at this point, I respectfully disagree in part, and agree in another.  I quoted you Mr/s. Beatrix7hearts, mostly out of convenience to give some structure to my reply, please don't feel that my response is directed solely at you, but rather at DE and the Trin using public in general.

-Solo:

Shes actually seems alot squishier to play now then she used to be.  Like, ALOT squishier.  This might be due to Blessing taking the Sentinel/Kubrow into account, but she just doesn't hold her own the way she used to.  2HP > Bless just doesn't offer what it used to, which was a guaranteed 10+ second essentially immunity to give you time as a non-Damage Frame (IE damage solely reliant on Weapon Damage), to burn down the mobs most likely making your life hard, or to accomplish other tactical tasks (Up to and including running away).  Its now more like, when things get tough, stand there and hammer 3, 2, 2, 4, 3, 2, 4, 4, 2, 2, 3, 2, 2, 4, 2, 3, 2, 3, 2, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, > Dead.  They made it so that some approximation of that rotation WILL BE how Trin Plays every single time going forward in her old stomping ground, which was always wherever mobs got so hard they would murder most other frames. 

So I guess I should thank DE for making Trin play like a World of Warcraft Class?  Except I stopped playing that game for in part this very reason.....

Ok, there's an argument to be made that we don't want Trin to ever be OP sure, but I don't feel like she was OP before?  If anything I feel like her Solo play just got to be weaker for basically -No Real Reason- Other then, "DE's New Toy MUST BE SAVED~!"   Really DE??

-Range Buff Scaling:

I also disagree here for a few reasons.  First is that if there was ever going to be a change I would have recommended for Trin to improve party play, it would have been to remove the "Map Wide Range" on Blessing.  As awesome as it was before, it was essentially easy cheese healing.  No other game that I know of made a healy skill with such a wide range combined with such easy spammability, and if you want to talk about thematically, aside from being a "God", how the hell are you going to actually explain that kind of ability anyway?  Bless was litterally One Stop Shop for Team Immunity.

By limiting its range, you make it so teams actually have to know where their players are and where they need to go/be to accomplish various things.  An FPS-Trope I actually happen to agree with and can find rather fun and entertaining as long as its productive/rewarding (Which with the Square Root added to this formula, is questionable in Trins case, more like a Pain in the &#! Headache).

On that score too, I would point out that in theory a team should be able to manipulate Blessing by anyone that has super low HP coming to the Trin, and everyone that doesn't running away.  If the trin is actually playing, their HP should not be 100%, which would mean a garunteed high % Bless for the Trin and the injured party member....  But honestly?  Thats such a complicated scenario intellectually, most people will ditch the Bless Trin in favor Health packs *Rather then do that kind of Math or Critical thinking* (Not saying Trins won't get invited on Raids, all Hail and Worship the Almighty EV Spam).  This all ads up still to Trinity going from the Final word in Team Support to Marshmellow Multitasking.  You're Asking ALOT of players IMHO to figure all of this out AND act on it Real Time in a battle that was designed originally to be overwhelming to begin with (IE Raids, which ultimately I feel it fails at anyway if for no other reason then they have to nerf Frames to make it that way to begin with....).  Either way, this Mechanic is unwieldy, and likely to turn alot of High School Drop Out Players off (Who have been ignoring their math homework in favor of Warframe), to suddenly make them HAVE to be aware of things like Ratios and %s, even with the aid of semi-convenient little Display bars (HP/shield Bars), and then actually ACT on the very rudimentary requirements of math.  I Challenge any DE Dev or Employee to do a google search for the word "Maths" if they want a quick education on how the average Gamer Feels about math in ANY form.

That all said, Range scaling, though honestly thematically would fit better, I think would make any already overly complicated poorly implemented system (The current upgrade), even more complicated, and likely would be just as poorly implemented.  I think the range is fine at a dead stop of 50 Meters.  A team should have access to a Medic, should be able to keep track of where that medic is, and always be thinking about what they have to do to get to that medic.....  The Medic being able to reach accross a Map or even 1/4 of a Map has always been god-modeish in any game thats ever cared to dabble in anything similar (Of which few have for this very reason).  I would also add that the Medic's Job should be able to be made as simplistically aimed at "Keep your team mates alive" as possible, which right now, Marshmellow Multi-tasking doesn't accomplish....  I can't worry about my team when Im CONSTANTLY spamming Blessing Just to keep my self alive......

-Player responsibility:

when I first started playing Trin, I used to apologize to players that died.  Particularly as I had a MAP WIDE ability to prevent that.  I was still learning about how it worked and all of that mind.  Then I met a fellow that said in passing "Don't apologize.  Its a poor Frame Player that Blames a Trin for his own Failings as a player".  I was astounded.  And when I thought about it, hes absolutely right.  A Trins job is Support.  Not "Nobody can ever die".  The better trins will do their utmost to keep people from dieing and know how to do that and will make things like Party Play and Raids run 10x smoother.  That said, every player has a responsibility to themselves to monitor their own HP/Shield Pool, have strategies in place for when it goes low, act on those strategies, and most importantly be able to have some facsimile of recognition of Situations they *Don't* want to engage in because they're gonna get 1 shotted and they know it.....  This is yet another reason why Im ok with the Range Balance.  They even gave us a handy little Icon that appears when we ARE in range making that part of this so much easier.  If you're low HP, you need to have that Icon up until the Trin Blesses Again or you're asking to die..... /kavorkian.....

-Kalt

[AresTheLegendary]

On 6/10/2016 at 4:56 AM, Takkov said:

Hi, I just cut your comment a bit, but I have to say a few words about the affinity range, as I think it is a step in the right direction, but on some missions, it does the opposite.

Since the update I just dont like playing big interception missions (hieracon and other maps with a diameter between the points of far more than 50 meters. Because even if you are doing what you are supposed in these missions, you dont get any shared affinity, which sadly is a huge funstopper for archwing missions in general, especially the interception.

While I played 4 rounds of the interception I only got into the affinity range of other players while reviving them or recapturing a tower, since the affnity range for AW is around 200 meters, which is around one second flying, while the points are at least 1000 meters apart. When I played them before, I was able to get around 3-4 Ranks on my AW in one 4 round interception, maybe a bit more, now i am not able to get event one rank up from 15 to 16 in doing the same amount of work.

So I think DE should reintroduce the shared multiplier at least in Interception, as I dont want to play the Draco buffer/DD/Trin combo, which is just boring. The normal playstyle got a bit punished by this change

I agree with you here somewhat, in that, I disagree that experience and affinity are reduced to this range, since maps can be rather large when defending. I agree, for that alone, the range should be a fair size larger, but not map wide. But what I should probably highlight about my fondness for the affinity range: I think buffs, heals, and -most- skills affecting allies, should be reduced to this range, to keep the group together and group play, actually a thing.