Valkyr Revisions Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[[DE]Danielle]

Hey Tenno! 

This megathread will be used to host your discussions regarding the recent Valkyr ability changes in Update 18.13:

Quote

Valkyr Changes

•    Hysteria is Valkyr's Rage Mode - we teased and released her as a Berserker frame and we've iterated on Hysteria a couple of times since release. We are returning to this power to reign in its issues but still thematically invoke her ultimate rage. 

•    The relationship between time spent in Hysteria and energy & incoming damage has changed in two ways.

•    Firstly, the longer you stay in Hysteria, the more Energy it'll cost you. (but the energy drain ramp up is capped). 

•    Secondly, while in Hysteria you are still invulnerable - the current Hysteria indicator on the UI tells you how much incoming damage you've absorbed and mitigated. The longer you stay in Hysteria, the less effective the mitigation of incoming damage is on the 'End Hysteria' phase. Ending your Hysteria session should be done with care - ensuring no enemies are in the range of Valkyrs Hysteria Aura (20 meters max, they have to be able to see you), or you will take the damage. How you choose to dispose of these enemies is up to you - either kill them, or get a safe distance away to deactivate Hysteria. 

 

Please be respectful and keep your feedback constructive. Thank you! 

[(XBOX)Drvnzer]

Noooooooooooo GOD NO PLS NOO DO NOT GIVE XBOX THIS UPDATE 

[TheSteelRat]

So hysteria is now useless against nullifier bubbles.  and Valkyr under hysteria has to find a quiet place now to let off her steam.

Not only is the Energy drain increased, you also have to recast it more now.

[Tsunero]

Revert it, it's disgusting.

I did a test with Narrow Minded and Primed Flow alone. Before the nerf I was able to stay in Hysteria for 3 mins and 20 seconds (didn't do anything).

After the nerf I was only able to stay in Hysteria for one minute (again I didn't do anything). The suicide bubble is no longer affected by negative range so you can't even get rid of it now.

You need a ridiculously expensive build to make her useful for ONE minute BUT if ONE energy leech creeps up on you then you are finished. You can't channel without losing precious TIME. You can't do anything about the suicide bubble. You still can't steer her during Hysteria combos.

She is effectively useless now.

[ThatOddDeer]

Despite the changes, which I feel are alright, the rest of valkyr's kit could be looked at.

Rip line is redundant post parkour 2.0. 

Warcry is massively over-costed for what it does and the armor bonus is totally worthless for hysteria. I suggest reducing the cost and changing the armor bonus to crit chance or crit damage (thematically berserker type things)or maybe lifesteal.

Paralysis is redundant because hysteria charge attacks do the same thing for free.

[(XBOX)Dr Desflurane]

The second part of the hysteria change seems rather unnecessary since you are already handicapping the ability quite a bit.  Doesn't the energy requirement increase by itself effectively eliminate the god-mode?

Edited May 27, 2016 by (XB1)Dr Desflurane
clarity

[Tsunero]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)Dr Desflurane said:

The second part of the change seems rather unnecessary since you are already handicapping the ability quite a bit.  Doesn't the energy requirement increase by itself effectively eliminate the god-mode?

It already had many downsides there was no need for this change at all. Now Hysteria is really just a panic button which you need to time very carefully. Forget using it for actual  you know...killing.

Edited May 27, 2016 by Momo93

[TennoOfShadow]

So testing the Hysteria in a mission, I can confrim it no longer lasts as long as it used too. I used to be able to perm Hysteria with my her and now Now i can not.

[Bizzaro21]

so, you guys say that this is to support her rage theme? how about this:

getting more angry causing more damage and exhausting her?

simple really, she gets so pissed that she drains her own energy, BUT does more damage as she hits harder with her claws....

also, I was saying sarcastically in workshop that drain will be 10 energy/sec at max rate, i didnt know i could be this right.......... I now have full duration on her (cost should be frikking low right?) it can eat my 300 energy in like 10 secs..........

or make damage mitigated relate to her energy, it seems tiring to get all these melee whacks and bullets, maybe every 500 damage or so it drains a 20 energy? (on high levels, one nulli shot can drain u dry here, trust me)

just, figure something out, as it is, she is back to the trashcan where she was before her rework

it makes no sense that getting more angry consumes her and doesnt make her hit more like a truck

Edited May 27, 2016 by Bizzaro21

[Burnthesteak87]

The change has been made to stop Immortality abuse and permanent Immortality.
I'm fine with this and it's a good point.

For what I tested, I can say that the Energy cap just stops the player from abusing Channeling and eventually reduces Hysteria duration to a reasonable amount of time.
It's probably going to clash really hard with Energy Drain mechanics and Parasitic Eximi,

The energy Drain over time is smooth, it doesn't really pose a threat for the player.
I feel it's just an expedient to justify the neat duration reduction of Hysteria. Nothing more nothing less.

About Hysteria Damage Deterrent:
If Hysteria ends for whatever reason, the damage you sustain is ridicle, it wouldn't harm anybody.
Plus the player can avoid that damage by staying out of enemy sight line, intentionally ending Hysteria or moving away from the fight and then ending it.
There's too much control in the hands of the player.
Still people complain. Ok...

Another point: with the high Armor Valkyr has and Rage you can get in Hysteria just a second after it ends cause the Energy's gonna get refilled in a blink of an eye.

I'd say it's been a step in the right direction, but once again a show of poor design choice.
You can nerf something and still make it feel funny and entertaining.
This change seems to be lazy and rushed.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Burnthesteak87

[(XBOX)Dr Desflurane]

7 minutes ago, DarthMelchom said:

So testing the Hysteria in a mission, I can confrim it no longer lasts as long as it used too. I used to be able to perm Hysteria with my her and now Now i can not.

Isn't being able to permanently be in an invincible state something that needed to be fixed though?

[Baskakov_Dima]

I don't like the new update because it made an actually OP frame useless. You don't need here for non-toptier missions, and you can't really use here out of star chart. Not useless frame, but others will just perform better. 

Not even a good medic now, I think. 

[Tsunero]

2 minutes ago, Burnthesteak87 said:

The change has been made to stop Immortality abuse.

For what I tested, I can say that the Energy cap just stops the player from abusing Channeling.

If Hysteria ends for whatever reason, the damage you sustain is ridicle, it wouldn't harm nobody.
And people complain. Ok...

To conclude, with Armor and Rage you can get in Hysteria just a second after it ends.

I'd say it's been a step in the right direction, but once again a poor design choice.

Abusing channelling? How?! If you channelled during Hysteria it ate your energy in a few moments, it wasn't even a viable way to dish out damage and now it's completely impossible. Way to have an ultimate which can't even utilize melee 2.0 properly on a MELEE frame.

Edited May 27, 2016 by Momo93

[TennoOfShadow]

Just now, (XB1)Dr Desflurane said:

Isn't being able to permanently be in an invincible state something that needed to be fixed though?

But Why though.. She is meant to be played as a tank and the one that does all the Damage in a mission. 

Am I wrong to think this ?

[Xekrin]

47 minutes ago, Momo93 said:

Revert it, it's disgusting.

I did a test with Narrow Minded and Primed Flow alone. Before the nerf I was able to stay in Hysteria for 3 mins and 20 seconds (didn't do anything).

After the nerf I was only able to stay in Hysteria for one minute (again I didn't do anything). The suicide bubble is no longer affected by negative range so you can't even get rid of it now.

You need a ridiculously expensive build to make her useful for ONE minute BUT if ONE energy leech creeps up on you then you are finished. You can't channel without losing precious TIME. You can't do anything about the suicide bubble. You still can't steer her during Hysteria combos.

She is effectively useless now.

Everything said here makes me smile, especially the red part.  Nerf Anyo strikes again

9 minutes ago, DarthMelchom said:

But Why though.. She is meant to be played as a tank and the one that does all the Damage in a mission. 

Am I wrong to think this ?

yes

Edited May 27, 2016 by Xekrin

[(XBOX)Dr Desflurane]

7 minutes ago, DarthMelchom said:

But Why though.. She is meant to be played as a tank and the one that does all the Damage in a mission. 

Am I wrong to think this ?

Agreed, she is a tank and she is meant to do damage but being permanently invincible is broken.  Am I wrong to think this?

[Nesit1]

I think people should start using Hysteria just for "some situations", not as permanent state. Build hp + armor + rage - you can tank everything (HER 600 ARMOR, M8). Use Hysteria sometimes just to shred huge crowds or something like that, I don't know. I played A LOT OF games with Valkyr using no 4. She is tanky. Specially with warcry up.

Haven't tested it by myself though. But looks like I finally have a reason to use Hysteria.

[Tsunero]

Just now, Nesit1 said:

I think people should start using Hysteria just for "some situations", not as permanent state. Build hp + armor + rage - you can tank everything (HER 600 ARMOR, M8). Use Hysteria sometimes just to shred huge crowds or something like that, I don't know. I played A LOT OF games with Valkyr using no 4. She is tanky. Specially with warcry up.

Haven't tested it by myself though. But looks like I finally have a reason to use Hysteria.

Yeah, an ultimate which you can rarely use now whereas all other frames can just spam theirs happily all day.

 

3 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

Everything said here makes me smile, especially the red part.  Nerf Anyo strikes again

yes

I take it you find my tears tasty. I have to come up with a slighlty different build. I can still perma hysteria with enough orbs around but it's harder to pull off now.

[TrinityLover]

Revert it now!

[Mak_Gohae]

How about this. Hysteria gives you an attack speed and movement bonus and the longer you stay the slower you become to the point where you basically are basically just walking around?

eating up all your energy just stops you from using other powers and that's not what a player wants.

Give the actual power a detriment instead of giving it to the frame that ends up affecting everything else.

[mrrobotto67]

At least for me and i main Valkyr ... the energy consumption overtime is not something that wont make me change the way i play her since i use more warcry (even tho warcry should cost 50 energy aside from 75 but thats another issue) but that second change feels like an idea they had in a dream and wanted to put it just to put it ... it does not improve the ability in any way

 

[Orthelius]

Evening, I have found that after this update Valkyr's 2 no longer has an effect, at least in the T1 survival I tested it in.

Initially there was no particle effect: 

http://prnt.sc/b9aa4w

Then with Hysteria also:

http://prnt.sc/b9a9vs

There was also no increase in attack speed on a 170% Strength build, although eternal War still worked. 
No increase in armour that was apparent either.

 

Edit: Upon further testing Valkyr's 2 will also not work on allies:

http://prntscr.com/b9aiif

Edited May 28, 2016 by Orthelius

[Tsunero]

1 minute ago, mrrobotto67 said:

At least for me and i main Valkyr ... the energy consumption overtime is not something that wont make me change the way i play her since i use more warcry (even tho warcry should cost 50 energy aside from 75 but thats another issue) but that second change feels like an idea they had in a dream and wanted to put it just to put it ... it does not improve the ability in any way

 

I did a bit of testing and you can sustain 12k dmg from the suicide bubble (assuming you have steel fiber and vitality) and not die while still having around 120hp if you can't get out of enemy range in time.

[Ryddem]

1 minute ago, Orthelius said:

Evening, I have found that after this update Valkyr's 2 no longer has an effect, at least in the T1 survival I tested it in.

Initially there was no particle effect: 
http://prntscr.com/b9a9vs [/img]

 

Then with Hysteria also:
http://prntscr.com/b9aa4w [/img]

There was also no increase in attack speed on a 170% Strength build, although eternal War still worked. 
No increase in armour that was apparent either.

Dude! i just felt something was horribly wrong when i was testing out some stances in the simulacrum, thought it was just me.

[B0N3M4N]

For me the rework is fine, tried with some high level units, switching from hysteria to normal melee in order to get the energy needed and changing a bit my current playstyle, seems pretty good.

The only problem actually comes with Nullies, but the fact is that isn't Valkyr the problem here, the Nullies are, like they were since their release in order to contrast those "Nuke-Frames" with Anti-Fun bubbles. Those indeed are needing to be looked at.

I mean even just removing those and leaving the Comba and Scrambus unit alone could be a better thing right now, then if you want to get deeper on the problem I think you'll have the time for that, DE.