Excalibur Revisions Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[(PSN)Faustx19]

Most just see the damage done by one hit.To look at dps (Damage per seconds )  every gun can do a lot more damage as exalted blade without the loss over distance and greater distance at all.So for exalted blade we need to mod not only the frame,also melee weapon.Still weaker as a gun and just need mods on the gun. That was a fact even before the nerf. We all are humans and do not everything right.No one is mad at DE if they fix that broken excalibur.

[TopSpeed]

On 5/28/2016 at 1:46 AM, ThatOddDeer said:

I find the fact that it incentives you to get head-to-head with enemies good.

However, the drain on slide attacks does not justify the massively reduced power of the mini-radial blind. I suggest it either be removed, only active when channeling, buffed to compensate or reverted back to the original function.

Secondly, by not allowing body count or blood rush, and even just body count would suffice, and having combos with almost non-existant multipliers, exalted blade  only incentivises E spam rather than combos and does 15-20% the damage of a melee using the shadowdebt mod combination. If the ability is to drain energy, it should be more powerful than the cost-less alternative.

Edit:After doing some basic math, a full power strength excal that sacrifices everything to pump up EB, if shadowdebt mods were enabled on it, only deals about 60%~ more damage than a nikana prime using blind justice combos. That is an acceptable power difference considering the very weak nature of the stance, and the other exalted melee stances, because of how  expensive a super high strength EB can be.

Dame. Right !

[Azyrt]

Then DE should nerf everything based on their range... frost avalanche must be nerfed cause hey it kills everything in range even with overextended, ember kills everything without even getting close (specially infested) ivara's bow is currently a boss killer, but lets nerf it based on how far she is from the target, saryn molt+explosion combo must be nerfed too... and we can give example of op stuff that actually kills everything without even aiming at least a lil bit like the exalted wave...

[Ikusias]

On 13/6/2016 at 3:00 AM, (PS4)supersocc11 said:

Really can't believe people are complaining so much. The fact that exalted blade can still utilize life strike means you'll never die. That didn't change, therefore, EB is still borderline overpowered. Am I complaining? No, I love it. And you guys should quit complaining.

Please keep your "opinion" for yourself - anyone who's complaining about the nerf on excalibur is in his full right to do so, your "quit complaining" is inappropriate and offensive!

I'd like to see your reaction if the goddamned tonkor finally got nerfed into the ground, it would be hilarious!

Excalibur is a frame that doesn't perform in its intended role unless you heavily invest in mods and formas, and even then remains overshadowed by "one button full room kill" Ash and "immortal" valkyr (although now she is a bit less immortal apparently), current balancing doesn't address the problem and it's rightly felt as an uncalled for nerf, expecially considering the extra insult of the energy tax on a common maneuver of a stance, the slide attack was quite useful to close or widen the distance with targets and now it become horribly expensive.

Apparently Excalibur is being "punished" for being half-decent at its supposed role: damage, ok the waves from exalted blade are quite anime style, but are the only cool solution to going melee in a run and gun game other frames go at it differently and benefit from gimnics that remove them from damage, without considering that:

-  generally a good melee weapon correctly modded outperforms exalted blade melee damage no small thanks to the latest mods (incompatible with EB),

- guns outperform EB waves in damage and precision - those waves are slow so if you are able to hit something at max distance, good for you and your aim, don't see a reason why skill deserves punishment

- shooting trough doors etc? there are two mods for that so it's not an advantage exclusive to exalted blade

- you can't directly mod exalted blade like you could any equipped weapon;

- channelling does nothing;

- the actual "blade" is hilariously small

- excalibur passive is a joke considering how few melee weapons it covers and how low the bonus is -don't know if EB even qualifies for it

All the arguments in favour of nerfing excalibur are moot - excalibur needed a buff to survivability and a better look at radiant javelin and slash dash, as both perform poorly, slash dash in particular has got an end animation that locks you down for an instant and prevents consecutive castings why? it's autotargeting is mediocre if not annoying as instead of hitting multiple targets in a single pass in its cone of effect ofthen missess all of them... radiant javelin has mediocre damage and auto aiming

So DE gave a second loock at excalibur... considering that most reworks have been abismal or forced players to drop the frame or use it in a single different way, really the time they wasted should have been spent on the rest of the things falling to pieces in the game, like enemy logic, RNG generator, lack of variety in content and game modes that have grown quite stale.

So we have quite a lot of right to complain: it's called feedback and it's what this forums are for, considering this game is still in beta (and this it's a joke that isn't even remotely funny) so supersocc11 give your opinin, maybe with an explanation as well, on the change but refrain from telling others to stop complaining: you have no more right to express your opinion than anyone else here.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Ikusias

[(PSN)supersocc11]

1 hour ago, Ikusias said:

Please keep your "opinion" for yourself - anyone who's complaining about the nerf on excalibur is in his full right to do so, your "quit complaining" is inappropriate and offensive!

I'd like to see your reaction if the goddamned tonkor finally got nerfed into the ground, it would be hilarious!

Excalibur is a frame that doesn't perform in its intended role unless you heavily invest in mods and formas, and even then remains overshadowed by "one button full room kill" Ash and "immortal" valkyr (although now she is a bit less immortal apparently), current balancing doesn't address the problem and it's rightly felt as an uncalled for nerf, expecially considering the extra insult of the energy tax on a common maneuver of a stance, the slide attack was quite useful to close or widen the distance with targets and now it become horribly expensive.

Apparently Excalibur is being "punished" for being half-decent at its supposed role: damage, ok the waves from exalted blade are quite anime style, but are the only cool solution to going melee in a run and gun game other frames go at it differently and benefit from gimnics that remove them from damage, without considering that:

-  generally a good melee weapon correctly modded outperforms exalted blade melee damage no small thanks to the latest mods (incompatible with EB),

- guns outperform EB waves in damage and precision - those waves are slow so if you are able to hit something at max distance, good for you and your aim, don't see a reason why skill deserves punishment

- shooting trough doors etc? there are two mods for that so it's not an advantage exclusive to exalted blade

- you can't directly mod exalted blade like you could any equipped weapon;

- channelling does nothing;

- the actual "blade" is hilariously small

- excalibur passive is a joke considering how few melee weapons it covers and how low the bonus is -don't know if EB even qualifies for it

All the arguments in favour of nerfing excalibur are moot - excalibur needed a buff to survivability and a better look at radiant javelin and slash dash, as both perform poorly, slash dash in particular has got an end animation that locks you down for an instant and prevents consecutive castings why? it's autotargeting is mediocre if not annoying as instead of hitting multiple targets in a single pass in its cone of effect ofthen missess all of them... radiant javelin has mediocre damage and auto aiming

So DE gave a second loock at excalibur... considering that most reworks have been abismal or forced players to drop the frame or use it in a single different way, really the time they wasted should have been spent on the rest of the things falling to pieces in the game, like enemy logic, RNG generator, lack of variety in content and game modes that have grown quite stale.

So we have quite a lot of right to complain: it's called feedback and it's what this forums are for, considering this game is still in beta (and this it's a joke that isn't even remotely funny) so supersocc11 give your opinin, maybe with an explanation as well, on the change but refrain from telling others to stop complaining: you have no more right to express your opinion than anyone else here.

Wish you weren't 'offended' so easily...I stand by my OPINION of thinking that everyone should quit complaining about the Excalibur nerf.  Clearly by your novel of a post, you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.  Will you be 'offended' again by this post? probably.  That is your fault for letting my OPINION offend you. 

P.S. what is a tonkor???

[(PSN)Faustx19]

To tell us we schould quit complaining and complain yourself is offensive . You can complain and tell others to quit?What is your problem?Still,if you do not even know Tonkor it seems you are not realy familiar with warframe and still you will know it better and tell DE how to balance their game.It seems you are not best qualified to talk over the frames and They're abilitys untill you know them.

[TuxPenguino]

Let me start off by saying, that I only use Excalibur. 160,000,000xp and gaining. 

His abilities are perfect. If anything it makes more sense an feels like what it should have been. 

Changes, (increase range of the slide blind by 10m or make it to where it is relational to the range mods he has equiped)

A 5%boost in movement speed while in ult would also be a little bit more authentic. (After all, he is basically channeling his energy into his blade it has to flow through hisframe. Makes sense that he would be more agile)

[TuxPenguino]

On 6/14/2016 at 6:32 AM, Legion216 said:

You're still fairly close to the enemy with those weapons. Aside from the Dread, but there's a fire rate penalty there+your aim needs to be solid.

 

Yes, but it's also a HUGE boost in survivability for Excal.

 

In this, sir, we are in TOTAL agreement, the slide blind cost is absurdly silly and has no logical justification.

 

Bringing an excal to an excavation is a bad idea to begin with.

Plus, they're going to rework enemy scaling so it's not as absurd anymore. Also, Excal is nothing compared to Rhino? What even....

I see where you're coming from in that there is less of a REASON to play Excal now but please realize that these changes might make more sense after the enemy scaling rework. Except the slide blind cost, that one's just plain stupid.

You fail to understand what 45sec. Of blind can do...

[(PSN)Faustx19]

45 sec. Do not see a reason to mod for such a time.If you do you mod other abilitys down , just a waste.In this case you may need the time cause its the only thing usefull . What is not bad,do not get me wrong.In a time before exalted blade added to excalibur he was most usefull moding for radial blind.But half of that time is more than enough mod the radial javelin more of use. Also he has the exalted blade ability, to nerf that and let him go blind for endgame missions destroys a 4 ability.Others 4th are realy another league . You say you play only excalibur ,maybe try ivara and her bow,or vauban who have more than one extrem abilitys.Nova's 4 and a good gun are a force far beyond many frames. Realize how excalibur look like compared to other frames and you realize how useless the nerf was. Now ivaras bow looks overpowered compared to exalted blade . Nerf it? No, thats the endless circle DE gets trapped in. Nerf some , others shine.Thats not the way. Balance the enemy had done more sense in the first place.

[(PSN)Faustx19]

Exalted blade wave lose power on range and with every enemy or surrounding it punctures trough.So,many enemys hide,still you can see and aim at part of em.Exalted blade's wave size hits the obstacle and loose power , every other gun or ability would deal full damage here,not exalted blade . Maybe i could agree with the power loss on range OR power loss with each passed obstacle or enemy. But not both and not that drastically as it is right now. Every other frame i use are more effective and less work as excalibur . 

[DatDarkOne]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Faustx19 said:

Now ivaras bow looks overpowered compared to exalted blade

That's a potentially misleading statement.  Artemis Bow's damage comes from the arrows.  Those arrows spread out farther from each other with distance.  It's more damaging at close range because more of the arrows can hit the target.  Artemis Bow already had damage reduction with range.  There is no chance that all the arrows will hit the same target as the distance increases.  Not sure if you knew this or not. 

[(PSN)Faustx19]

Warframe is a horde based game,7 arrows at once are devastating to many enemys in the line of fire.Thats not a rare situation.Not sure if you knew this or not.

[SamuraiPizza]

11 hours ago, Tuxpenguino said:

You fail to understand what 45sec. Of blind can do...

You fail to understand that I have been harping on this thread about the effectiveness of radial blind. You have not bothered to read my earlier posts. Having said that, I will simply add this: I'm sorry but I will not build for 45 seconds worth of a blind to dock my damage or range. 

 

Although I take Faustx19's point about losing kill time efficiency by relying on finishers. 

 

 

 

[DatDarkOne]

I said this.  Which I have proven to be true multiple times. 

8 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

 There is no chance that all the arrows will hit the same target as the distance increases. 

 

While your response below is technically true, it is ignoring the above statement which is very true. 

6 hours ago, (PS4)Faustx19 said:

Warframe is a horde based game,7 arrows at once are devastating to many enemys in the line of fire.Thats not a rare situation.Not sure if you knew this or not.

Once you go past a certain distance with the target,  there is no chance that all 7 arrows will hit the same target because of the spread.  Artemis is great for crowds at distance because of the spread.  It's also great for boss killing at closer range because the arrows are still grouped together.  I wasn't trying to be snarky with my earlier post.  Was only offering clarification.  If you didn't see it that way, I'm sorry. 

Edited June 16, 2016 by DatDarkOne
added content

[(PSN)Faustx19]

I offer clarification to you.Ivara's bow is much more powerfull and usefull as excalibur's exalted blade.As i said , that does not mean ivara is overpowered . No, many other frames can keep up with that.It just shows that excalibur is only played now by beginners as start choice or the older warframe players that play him with love. Otherwise there are better frames to chose for the hard stuff.The nerf was not necessary . My brother for example , only excalibur player, just do not play warframe anymore and did not even try him after the nerf.Read it and quit.I can understand that.All of us who played excalibur so long and with heartblood can feel with him. 

[(PSN)SPdub]

The bottom line is, imo. We put so much time into these frames. reguardless if it's excalibur or Trinity etc. And after months and months of modding, formas buying skins, helmets, farming mods, cores, weapons. DE can basically turn your favorite frame into something that basically disgusts you. (Tried excal out havent played him since) Without a darn thing we can do about. but sit and vent. Quitting aside, say we move on cut our losses and find another favorite. Who's to say in a few months the same wont happen to our next main frame?? It's basically a feeling of putting time and effort etc. into something that can be changed and changed so extremely. reguardless if we like it or not. It's not a good feeling...

[(PSN)Faustx19]

SPdub exactly say it how i feel. I tried,experimented with excalibur today and all i found out i can not reach the damage output to were it was.Thats not even the bad thing.I can get close to it but with loss of health,what is a bad thing for excalibur and his low defense .Also i slide attack often in the past,now the enormous energycost prevents me from slide attacking , force me to go more distant . Today a t3 survival shows for my own surprise i use him now as a turret.Never did that before the nerve but its now more effective .Loss of health and no slide attack force me to do so and its just horrible . In my opinion DE has not achived what they want with this nerf and excalibur now is one of those rare,useless frames.Everything he can do , other frames can do it much better. 

[(XBOX)C0gnitive 0n3]

The only problem I run into with the Excalibur rework is feeling the need to run Naramon for when I go past 60 minutes in Survival missions (T4, Egeria, etc). I rely on his Radial Blind more than anything but for those moments when things get a little hairy, going invisible can't hurt.

Let's face it, Excalibur is godly when he's facing the enemy - that auto parry, tho - but he goes down pretty easy if a Ballista takes aim from his flank or from Bombard blast damage.

And, therein, lies the problem. Players are now forced to run a certain build or load out if they expect to go deep into endless missions.

[(PSN)SPdub]

6 hours ago, (PS4)Faustx19 said:

SPdub exactly say it how i feel. I tried,experimented with excalibur today and all i found out i can not reach the damage output to were it was.Thats not even the bad thing.I can get close to it but with loss of health,what is a bad thing for excalibur and his low defense .Also i slide attack often in the past,now the enormous energycost prevents me from slide attacking , force me to go more distant . Today a t3 survival shows for my own surprise i use him now as a turret.Never did that before the nerve but its now more effective .Loss of health and no slide attack force me to do so and its just horrible . In my opinion DE has not achived what they want with this nerf and excalibur now is one of those rare,useless frames.Everything he can do , other frames can do it much better. 

My 1st expirament was draco, focus farm. Easily earn under half the focus/kills I used to. That alone was a clear indicator Ex wasn't the same.  That's also the main reason i think it's a waste of a greater lens i applied to him pre-nerf. There's frames out there that can meet or beat the amount of focus i used to get with Ex. But not as fun, imo. 

Anyone else notice that EB's crits come a lot less?

And.... yea i found myself having to hit circle while in EB way more than i ever used to. Just trying to come close to the stats i used to put up. 

Nothing is safe as far as I'm concerned. One thing i do know is my dedication and interest level to this game has dropped. Granted, i love this game. But the main thing that got me into this game (Ex) has just been put away probably for good. As far as ever putting as much time, money, formas.... oh lord, the formas! Into another frame. Never again. So there lies the problem... I like to perfect every character i play in games. Buy when my perfection can be turned to shhh in a single update... That's a kick in the sack. I think I'll just play a little less seriously and see what happens.

[(PSN)Faustx19]

What i do not understand is what DE says.They say they feel excalibur was played like a turret.I play for a long time,i can say i have more ours playtime as anyone at DE .I seen many excalibur gamer,from beginners to high rank excalibur maxed , from all over the world.Not even one of them i sam use him like a turret.All rushing over the maps and only a few used exalted blade.Not even that,no,especially excalibur players i see more running and engaging as any other frame. Also to those haters that tell us we want just overpowered frames,i got platin trophy on Bloodborne,run trough Dark Souls 3 with no death and achived 1000G in Ninja Gaiden , i am a rare one who did not get the 0G Achievement Die 200 times.Im not afraid of challenges and if i say Excalibur is one of the most useless frame now than everyone can believe me.Im close to 3000 hours of warframe , maxed everything possible , got all rare and event mods.I play videogames since 30 years and i know what im talking about. Excalibur is dead to me and DE needs to revive him.Excalibur , as the first of all frames DE have to realize that more players have a special relationship to him as to any other frame. We all do not write here for fun and its the first time i ever joined a forum only for the excalibur nerf. I am getting more and more frustrated the more this threat grows and nothing happens. So a few haters cry and excalibur gets wrecked , many beg nothing happens. Where are the answers or statements? The one in the patchnote just is completely missing reality.

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Faustx19 said:

if i say Excalibur is one of the most useless frame now than everyone can believe me.

Subjective.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Faustx19 said:

I play videogames since 30 years and i know what im talking about.

That doesn't mean anything.  Also, I have almost 40. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Faustx19 said:

Excalibur is dead to me and DE needs to revive him.Excalibur , as the first of all frames DE have to realize that more players have a special relationship to him as to any other frame.

This is also subjective.  As someone who has been gaming for 30 years, you should know better than to think this.  It's unrealistic and possibly not a healthy attitude. 

Edited June 17, 2016 by DatDarkOne
correction

[(PSN)Faustx19]

Its not the only excalibur topic and it shows that it is how i say and not subjective .

[(PSN)Faustx19]

At least DE could remove the energy cost for slide blind,that can not be such a big deal that we have to wait years for.In a game like warframe where endless hordes of enemys attack you it is not a question of a tactic to slide attack , on higher missions its slide or die.Slide and run out of energy facing a horde of high level enemys is death. I myself do it as a reflex. Even if i do not want to waste energy i do slide attacks.Its an essential part of melee and movement , completely non logic having that extra cost only on the so called swordmaster frame.

[DatDarkOne]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Faustx19 said:

At least DE could remove the energy cost for slide blind

That I can totally agree with.  I don't play Excal, but even I can see that one went a little too far.  

[(PSN)Faustx19]

Just did the alert for orokin katalyst,enemy lv.120 - 200.Without slide attacks all the time there is no chance to survive or kill the elders.Even the strongest excalibur build goes on that mission just to die.