Hotfix 18.13.1

[Kairo-Kuraku]

1 minute ago, MercuryDoll said:

You could always try to take Oberon or Zephyr to the next Eximus Survival.

hahaha i could do that,

I get There is more Massive update with Damage 3.0 and Enemy 3.0(?) i believe. so hopefully that helps

I'll have to stick to your idea for now I guess though

[MercuryDoll]

6 minutes ago, Kairo-Kuraku said:

Massive update with Damage 3.0 and Enemy 3.0(?) i believe.

There will come a time where you stop weighing someone's word in gold, regardless of their position. Until then, stay cheerful, my child.

[MistressInsomnia]

Mesa arise and die again. 
Stop punish her, leave her alone.

[Lazarous_Schmidt]

FFS DE you have screwed over the game. LoR NM is damn near impossible now. Oh unless we bring your cash-grab frame, Vauban. Between the Mirage Blind nerf, and the Blessing Nerf, you're telling us that Vauban is the only CC you want us using. I hope to get a large number of people together to write a petition telling you to fix these changes, or we will take our money elsewhere. Ya know, WoW has a new expansion coming out, after all.

[Youre_Waifu]

15 minutes ago, ivalec said:

why allways deploy updates without testing?

it's a beta 10o

[Aexic]

1 minute ago, Youre_Waifu said:

it's a beta 10o

Doesn't mean they can't test it first.

[Youre_Waifu]

1 minute ago, ZaeXithos said:

Doesn't mean they can't test it first.

I'm not sure you understand. WE are the QC team.

[Shemarria]

NOT happy with the nerfs to Exlacibro (who actually had become useful and fun to play; albeit resorting to 4 key'itis) and to Trin & Rage-kitty (re; Valkyr).

It smacks of blanket F/U to all players both creative AND lazy.  As for Mag *waggles hand* I'm neither here nor there about the changes. to her so I'll let this slide for now.  For the first three listed; Sadly D.E., I think you really have relegated (and do NOT use the trite "use the other powers"... I do use them all the time) them to early to mid game use only.  Sorry but some of the enemies you brought in, Nullifiers & Bursas to name just two of many deal-breakers, make things difficult enough as is.

As for the others and the passives? MMmmmmm again; reserving judgement. 

For the most part I'm willing to go on faith that we haven't been shafted by the company too badly all around, but yeah... un-fix the fixes to Exc Trin & Valk.  These nerfs (though I can see in a myopic and mean spirited devils advocate way that yes, the suit powers may have been broken) just came across as spiteful.

That being said, I truly do believe you will somehow make up for this pain in trade... but until then, do at least have the courtesy of acknowleding you HAVE taken away value to certain 'frames.

[FollowTheFaceless]

1. Still no fix for DE continuously INTENTIONALLY ignoring OBVIOUS BUGS.
2. Still no fix for OBVIOUS female Operator faceswap BUG after first transmission.

[Lazarous_Schmidt]

1 minute ago, Shemarria said:

NOT happy with the nerfs to Exlacibro (who actually had become useful and fun to play; albeit resorting to 4 key'itis) and to Trin & Rage-kitty (re; Valkyr).

It smacks of blanket F/U to all players both creative AND lazy.  As for Mag *waggles hand* I'm neither here nor there about the changes. to her so I'll let this slide for now.  For the first three listed; Sadly D.E., I think you really have relegated (and do NOT use the trite "use the other powers"... I do use them all the time) them to early to mid game use only.  Sorry but some of the enemies you brought in, Nullifiers & Bursas to name just two of many deal-breakers, make things difficult enough as is.

As for the others and the passives? MMmmmmm again; reserving judgement. 

For the most part I'm willing to go on faith that we haven't been shafted by the company too badly all around, but yeah... un-fix the fixes to Exc Trin & Valk.  These nerfs (though I can see in a myopic and mean spirited devils advocate way that yes, the suit powers may have been broken) just came across as spiteful.

That being said, I truly do believe you will somehow make up for this pain in trade... but until then, do at least have the courtesy of acknowleding you HAVE taken away value to certain 'frames.

I will say this about Valk; I haven't seen much of a difference. Sure it's a slightly higher energy drain at 100%, but you can drop that by dropping Hysteria. Just have to get away from enemies before you do it. However the others, and Mirage's blind were nerfed too damn hard.

[Ceekur]

4 minutes ago, LordOfInsomnia said:

Mesa arise and die again. 
Stop punish her, leave her alone.

*confused* Weren't her two changes a pure buff? While Peacemaker's base damage was lowered, it now scales with her equipped pistols, allowing far deadlier potential depending on how she mods them. Shooting Gallery also stays with you in addition to duplicating to your allies, doubling her ability to jam guns and stay safe.

[LornMind]

What ZaeXithos is saying gets the heart of the issue behind much of the problems this game has suffered from for years. There is no culture in the forums or in DE's approach to balance that promotes examination of frames that are doing poorly and asking seriously how to make them better - instead, like we saw with Mag, Mesa, Mirage and Trinity, they have the parts of their kits that they feel are invalidating content nerfed into near worthlessness. In the case of poor Mag, a frame who's single solitary niche was her only "real" use, they've taken a frame and Oberon'd it.

The fact that I can say that too - that I can tell you, "she's been Oberon'd" and that you register in your head that I mean to say "this frame is exceptionally weak", is a mark of failed design. There is nothing wrong with balancing your game if you have a set power-cap in mind. If you have a very clear idea of the bar to which enemies will scale to, of which players can reasonably attain or come within reach of, then you can create a game that has healthy, engaging gameplay. Instead, we have this terrible game of whack-a-mole. Something is too good? Into the ground. Something else? Into the ground. Meanwhile, the things that were already in the ground are left to rot, relegated to a life of being used by the have-nots and the genuine fans.

If you are going to hold this game to a concept of balance, to the idea that players should not be able to rise above a given power level, then you must look to your enemies and their designs and do exactly the same thing to them. Yes, you've mentioned that we're getting updates to damage, updates to enemy scaling, updates to everything relating to this game becoming a race to the asymptote, but the fact that we are getting it 19, 20, 21, however many patches into the game's life cycle when it has been a clear problem for ages, then is it really any wonder that players are trying to defeat it? They're players, it's their job to defeat your content. Yet you (DE) say and the misguided say, "But not too well, not too easily, not this, not that, as we can't have you trying to get the thing you really want that is behind a single digit drop percentage too easily because we don't want the game to feel like a grindwall." Paradox at its finest.

Worse still, the players have it in their heads that we should be holding frames to the concept of balance you promote to a nearly zealous degree - and it is unhealthy. The forums are aflame with constant finger pointing - Frame A is too strong, nerf it, Weapon B is too good, nerf it, Strategy C is too effective, make it impossible - and this does not a good game make. There is not a call to nerfing the way enemies are designed or their scaling, and all the while the calls for buffs just fall deeper and deeper away from the front page (and therefore the forefront of people's minds.)

So, with that said, DE please fix your level scaling and reconsider your balancing doctrine. Players are always happier to hear of buffs to things that have fallen by the wayside than nerfs of what is popular as one removes content while the other reintroduces it. There will always be dissent about nerfs, but if you have a better system, a fairer system for how enemies scale in place, it feels less like a race to the next exploit and more like an actual adventure that rewards experimentation.

[Lazarous_Schmidt]

1 minute ago, LornMind said:

What ZaeXithos is saying gets the heart of the issue behind much of the problems this game has suffered from for years. There is no culture in the forums or in DE's approach to balance that promotes examination of frames that are doing poorly and asking seriously how to make them better - instead, like we saw with Mag, Mesa, Mirage and Trinity, they have the parts of their kits that they feel are invalidating content nerfed into near worthlessness. In the case of poor Mag, a frame who's single solitary niche was her only "real" use, they've taken a frame and Oberon'd it.

The fact that I can say that too - that I can tell you, "she's been Oberon'd" and that you register in your head that I mean to say "this frame is exceptionally weak", is a mark of failed design. There is nothing wrong with balancing your game if you have a set power-cap in mind. If you have a very clear idea of the bar to which enemies will scale to, of which players can reasonably attain or come within reach of, then you can create a game that has healthy, engaging gameplay. Instead, we have this terrible game of whack-a-mole. Something is too good? Into the ground. Something else? Into the ground. Meanwhile, the things that were already in the ground are left to rot, relegated to a life of being used by the have-nots and the genuine fans.

If you are going to hold this game to a concept of balance, to the idea that players should not be able to rise above a given power level, then you must look to your enemies and their designs and do exactly the same thing to them. Yes, you've mentioned that we're getting updates to damage, updates to enemy scaling, updates to everything relating to this game becoming a race to the asymptote, but the fact that we are getting it 19, 20, 21, however many patches into the game's life cycle when it has been a clear problem for ages, then is it really any wonder that players are trying to defeat it? They're players, it's their job to defeat your content. Yet you (DE) say and the misguided say, "But not too well, not too easily, not this, not that, as we can't have you trying to get the thing you really want that is behind a single digit drop percentage too easily because we don't want the game to feel like a grindwall." Paradox at its finest.

Worse still, the players have it in their heads that we should be holding frames to the concept of balance you promote to a nearly zealous degree - and it is unhealthy. The forums are aflame with constant finger pointing - Frame A is too strong, nerf it, Weapon B is too good, nerf it, Strategy C is too effective, make it impossible - and this does not a good game make. There is not a call to nerfing the way enemies are designed or their scaling, and all the while the calls for buffs just fall deeper and deeper away from the front page (and therefore the forefront of people's minds.)

So, with that said, DE please fix your level scaling and reconsider your balancing doctrine. Players are always happier to hear of buffs to things that have fallen by the wayside than nerfs of what is popular as one removes content while the other reintroduces it. There will always be dissent about nerfs, but if you have a better system, a fairer system for how enemies scale in place, it feels less like a race to the next exploit and more like an actual adventure that rewards experimentation.

You hit the nail on the head. DE discovered some frames were better at certain roles, and others were slipping, so instead of figuring out how to improve the weaker frames, they nerfed the stronger ones.

[Shemarria]

3 minutes ago, LornMind said:

So, with that said, DE please fix your level scaling and reconsider your balancing doctrine. Players are always happier to hear of buffs to things that have fallen by the wayside than nerfs of what is popular as one removes content while the other reintroduces it. There will always be dissent about nerfs, but if you have a better system, a fairer system for how enemies scale in place, it feels less like a race to the next exploit and more like an actual adventure that rewards experimentation.

"SING IT preacher!"
(and no, not being facetious.  I'm am VERY sincere.)

[MistressInsomnia]

9 minutes ago, Ceekur said:

*confused* Weren't her two changes a pure buff? While Peacemaker's base damage was lowered, it now scales with her equipped pistols, allowing far deadlier potential depending on how she mods them. Shooting Gallery also stays with you in addition to duplicating to your allies, doubling her ability to jam guns and stay safe.

" Multishot Secondary Mods are now properly inherited with Mesa’s Peacemaker. "
Do u test Mesa in 18.13.0 and in 18.13.1?
I think 18.13.0 scale with secondary weapon and mods is the final result. But it was just a "wrong scaling"
(sry for bed Eng)

[K4r4k4s4]

I sincerely thanks DE for all these nerfs needed for long ago! This is like... the third dream was ended.

[-S-O-Yetili]

The Trinity "balancing" has just revealed what problems we really have.

Only being able to complete some content successful with 99 % invulnerability is really alarming. But nobody cared. Now people getting one-shotted and DE (and the community) needs to realize that there is something extremly wrong with the enemy-scaling in general. 50% damage reduction would be fine without a messed up enemy-scaling. In which other game you need 99%(!!) damage reduction? Be realistic. That's insane.

 

[Chroma_Bak2]

Why did you make stupid affinity aura range. It doesn't make sense

[Glitch-172]

*twiddles my thumbs just wanting the skins to get fixed so my OCD can stop flaring hard* i cant tell which one is the prime and the grost shoulder...because the grost armor doesn't exist on my end yet it does....this paradox is driving me nutty.

[TyrannosauRayz]

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

Hotfix 18.13.1.1

- Possible fix for GeForce 1080 users being unable to play Warframe.

 

omg thanks :) 

[Megakruemel]

1 hour ago, Sennera said:

Valkyr wasn't meant to always sit in Hysteria, I'm sure it was meant to be used when you're getting pissed that enemies just won't stop hitting so hard... It gives you a moment of beating the crap out of everyone without worrying about repercussions! Anyway, she's still got her insane armor value, the ability to slot in rage, and the possibility of equipping life strike.

^This.

As a Valkyr main i can finally play her without getting crucified by the majority of community because they are so blind to think i only use her 4, even though i play her for gunplay, due to her high armor, which actually lets me use guns without abilities in high level missions. I know the high armor is kind of the same thing as just spamming abilities all over the place but i would rather have high armor and get withered down slowly by hard hitting enemies and restoring life by blinking in and out of hysteria than being one of those ability spammers or perma hysteria player. I think people get angry at hysteria because it is (or was) actually really easy to just sit in hysteria all day doing nothing. This update limits exactly that and i am fine with it.

Survivals over an hour are just such a giant cheese fest that i am okay with being limited at that point in some way. I normally play to 60 minutes and extract and that is more than fine.

The overall update does leave a bit of a sour taste in my mouth though. I feel like most passives should be looked at again. Passives should enhance the warframe and actually matter to a point, where i would actually see a difference between frames in every mission. Oberons passive feels lackluster and Lokis passive just feels lackluster in a lot of ways. To make real use of it you would need an arcane and even then it is questionable useful. Banshees passive feels okay and fits her lore but her 3rd ability is just a stun now.

I do believe there is room for improvements everywhere. I can see how Oberons passive would make sense from a lore point but if i look at other passives, like Volts, which is not THAT situational i feel disappointed. You could have given him a more useful passive. He is supposed to be a paladin so you could have given him heals on hammer kills or given him a hammer proficiency, like excalibur has with blades or just given him multiple passives, like the animal passive, which is questionably useful AND a passive on top to keep the "Nature" feeling.

Loki has a lot more potential, too. Instead of the wall-cling you could have just given him a passive, that allows him to backstep enemies who are alerted but not focused on him, which would go incredibly well with his kit, even though it is really OP. Maybe just giving him a buff if enemies are not focused on him would be enough.

Banshees kit feels a bit redundant now. In high level missions, where a squishy frame needs to stay mobile or stun enemies her 3rd already only was used to do exactly that and her 4th was more punishing than rewarding. You might want to look at her kit in general. The Augments are really nice but i still feel like some of them should be included in the ability to begin with. It might seem a bit OP to give her 1st the armor reduction by default but there is not much of a reason to use it without augment, except for short CC which is done better by other frames. Don't get me wrong though, the passive definitely is nice and reinforces her as a silent killer but it has no use as soon as an alert is triggered.

Over all i feel like a look at the more situational passives is necessary.

[Avalona]

1 hour ago, Lazarous_Schmidt said:

FFS DE you have screwed over the game. LoR NM is damn near impossible now. Oh unless we bring your cash-grab frame, Vauban. Between the Mirage Blind nerf, and the Blessing Nerf, you're telling us that Vauban is the only CC you want us using. I hope to get a large number of people together to write a petition telling you to fix these changes, or we will take our money elsewhere. Ya know, WoW has a new expansion coming out, after all.

You know very well Vauban is going to get nerfed to something worse that Grineer's genetic pool after this :^)

[WMan22]

Tl;dr What ZaeXithos and Lornmind are saying is the way DE is addressing the balance issues is like cutting grass they think are weeds until they have no lawn left.

Every time you nerf a frame that is fun to play or actually viable in the endgame, people will always find that new meta, because "We don't want this game to be a grindwall"; We play Warframe because thematically it's AWESOME, I mean, who wouldn't want to play remote controlled ninja death machines in space?

But every time you nerf something cool instead of buffing something the community finds not very useful at the moment, you make the overall experience more of a "grindwall" and the overall theme of being an awesome space ninja just a formality or a skin deep appearance. Sure, there's a very vocal minority of players who enjoy these nerfs, but I'd like to ask you to please consider the silent majority who are upvoting posts that get to the crux of the problem with this game. I'm sure ZaeXithos swore at the developers because like us, he's passionate about Warframe and frustrated at it's current state of affairs.

I mean, after seeing the mesa buff that happened, I bought a tennogen item for the first time ever; Even though she still didn't scale that well, she at least finally felt like a proper gunslinger with that damage buff for a time so naturally because of how happy I was I believed it was finally time to get the Mesa Falcon Helmet that I was initially holding off on until a Akvasto Prime was in the game.

The fact that you even considered nerfing mesa again makes me regret that decision greatly. I'm probably not going to do it again.

Honestly I would have taken no multishot consideration and the original buff over this really underwhelming damage output we now have again.

Edited May 28, 2016 by WMan22

[MistressInsomnia]

1 hour ago, Lazarous_Schmidt said:

FFS DE you have screwed over the game. LoR NM is damn near impossible now. Oh unless we bring your cash-grab frame, Vauban. Between the Mirage Blind nerf, and the Blessing Nerf, you're telling us that Vauban is the only CC you want us using. I hope to get a large number of people together to write a petition telling you to fix these changes, or we will take our money elsewhere. Ya know, WoW has a new expansion coming out, after all.

U can use Banshee with max range and min duration for spaming silence and control enemies.
Not Mirage but better than Vauban.

[SmiteThemNoobs]

Also, is mags 3 suposed to be that small? even with 145% range, it is something like 11m?
wooooooat?

fix plz