Why DE were right to nerf Prism, and why other mapwide disabling powers must be next

[Lijka]

Haven't you had enough?

I swear, it seems like you're spending more time on the forums demanding nerfs to everything to suit you and you only than actually playing the game.

Oh, and of course, everyone disagreeing with you are wrong, provide straw man arguments and are blind, narrow-minded noobs. Yes, we've heard that before.

Let's nerf everything and pretend that the real problems are not an issue and that the majority of the players, which is the people who use so called "cheese" are irrelevant part of the community and they do not deserve to play the game the way they want.

Let's just tailor the game to one group of players instead of pushing, petitioning and asking for more diverse content that would provide players with more choice and that would lead towards the ultimate goal of multiple game difficulty modes, several grouping tool options and that would be fun for everyone, those who like cheese and those who always have to do everything the hard way.

Bravo, well done. Again.

 

[Slaviar]

OK. Just remember, no restores, no invisibilty, no cc, no ev. Oh, and no op weapons

[Fifield]

2 minutes ago, Lijka said:

Haven't you had enough?

I swear, it seems like you're spending more time on the forums demanding nerfs to everything to suit you and you only than actually playing the game.

Game is too easy.  Of course I don't play it much.  Most veterans just quit and you never hear from them again.

DE need the feedback.

4 minutes ago, Lijka said:

Bravo, well done. Again.

Thanks.

[Lijka]

Thank you for proving my point.

[Kaisty]

1 hour ago, fatpig84 said:

Before we even question balance, we should question why people want to sit through and grind missions.

Survival and Def used to be ABC rotation, increasing the rotation to AABC resulting into people needing to cheese harder.
Because scaling goes out of whack from then.

DE should take the first step and back down from the grind first. When people need to farm less, they naturally won't cheese as much.
 

DE won't lower the grind because if they did that, then a majority of players won't spend money on buying those nifty Prime packs or plat if the items can be farmed easier. While consumables and customization (I.E. Colors and skins) are nice, DE relies on people buying the boosters, the prime packs, and plat to trade for items in order to keep afloat.

And I do agree with the other posters on tightening their wallets. If you don't like something, keep your money. If DE is smart, they might notice a drop in revenue and then hopefully investigate the situation instead of leaving the problem like they have done with previous instances. I still remember how long it took for them to FIX the interception gate issue. 

[Fifield]

42 minutes ago, Warfoxzero said:

Has anyone tried to kill level 100 enemies without an OP weapon or ability to help cc? It's quite deadly. And it's not fun unloading many clips into 1 enemy, especially when there's many to kill.

Did you know, without any Corrosive Projection, or corrosive procs, they have about 800% more effective health?

Edited May 28, 2016 by Fifield

[Zari2015]

1 minute ago, Kaisty said:

DE won't lower the grind because if they did that, then a majority of players won't spend money on buying those nifty Prime packs or plat if the items can be farmed easier. While consumables and customization (I.E. Colors and skins) are nice, DE relies on people buying the boosters, the prime packs, and plat to trade for items in order to keep afloat.

You don't buy platinum... actually you donate money and the reward is platinum because you can share that platinum with player who never put a penny in this game.

When you trade platinum with players who never throw a penny in this game that platinum becomes = 0$.

Also DE gives "free plat" by streams and "support tickets refund because i bought something by mistake" and that mean DE doesn't care about the platinum you have in inventory.

The bad part is your beloved DE has hide very well by advertisement the name "DONATE" under the name "BUY PLATINUM". Open your eyes next time...

The multi account 75% discount exploit hurts Digital Extreme profit...

[Hedasker]

1 hour ago, Fifield said:

I don't care about my image.  If you're saying I don't have the right to seek challenge in the game, I'd have to disagree with you.

I don't get your point and I don't know why you're playing Warframe. Space ninjas with abilities are the core of the game. Some players have had fun while using capacities in Warframe. Accept that.

Your story about squad leaving is annoying and simply proves how intolerant you are. You want to play without "cheesy abilities" ? Simple, don't use them. You don't want to play with abilities spammers ? Well, don't play with random guys, make your own clan of narrow-minded like you and go have fun playing the way you want but let others enjoy the game for what it is, what it was... Or go play a more standard TPS. You have the choice, don't spit on those who want something else.

Balance Prism was needed. But nerf all abilities in the game for a handful of elitists like you sounds stupid.

[BBOTAA]

Yes, all powers are cheesy.Lets make them boring  and useless, and focus on the guns thats what wf is about afterall.
Also I agree with someone above,maybe just remove the powers, no? Whats your opinion op? They are so annoying to you and other players what would you do with them to fix them and not make ''super powers'' cheesy?
Turn Warframe into CoD in 3rd person,or doom, make it a cover shooter. Maybe add killstreaks too.
+1 op. I support it.
No scalling problems also...no one hits from balistas,bombards,corruputed nullifiers and the list ends here it doesn't go on, (trust me i know) no 3 sec stagers or knock downs that will get you killed instantly,no mid air grapling hooks or enemies ignoring stuns,no hit scan hits 50m away mid air, stacking eximus auras and more.. none of that is scalling problem.. its AI and general design, well maybe besides the one shots and the armor...
 

2 hours ago, Littleman88 said:

Endless modes weren't meant to be played endlessly.

Sorry didn't understood the tough.
Endless not so endless or not meant to be endless? hmmm.Or broken enemy progression? aka scalling?

Edit: Forgot to say, about prism I do agree, it was too much even for a super power,but now try not to put everything on the same bag.
 

Edited May 28, 2016 by BBOTAA

[Fifield]

25 minutes ago, Hedasker said:

Space ninjas with abilities are the core of the game.

There's nothing space ninja-ish about pressing 4 to disable every enemy on the map.  Sorry.

27 minutes ago, Hedasker said:

You don't want to play with abilities spammers ? Well, don't play with random guys, make your own clan of narrow-minded like you

I have thought about it.  But it's hard work both growing a clan and leading it.  Playing games shouldn't be a job.

Hilarious projection on narrow-mindedness...

 

[GarrisonStewart]

5 minutes ago, Fifield said:

There's nothing space ninja-ish about pressing 4 to disable every enemy on the map.  Sorry.

I have thought about it.  But it's hard work both growing a clan and leading it.  Playing games shouldn't be a job.

Hilarious projection on narrow-mindedness...

 

I'm sorry but Hilarious Projection sounds like a mod name, especially when stacked with Narrow Minded

[Achaix]

It's easy to say "This weapon/ability/warframe is too powerful and removes all challenge from the game, please do something DE" without adding "Also please nerf enemies because otherwise we're helpless". You think those who got to 25 kills in Endless Rathuum played "fairly", without any cheese? There must be a few, of course, but those few were not having fun. It's not fun to be instantly killed if you make a wrong turn, unless you're into Dark Souls - and that game is built around the concept of "Get ready to die" from the tutorial onwards. Warframe isn't, and if it is, I missed that part.

Warframe is in a vicious cycle right now. If you don't have cheese, it's highly unlikely you'll go very far in high level missions. But this statement relies on the community having the same opinion as I do on what is "cheese". Is Loki's Irradiating Disarm cheese? Is Naramon's Shadow Step cheese? Are any of Vauban/Trinity/Mesa/Mirage/Hydroid's abilities cheese?

One could very well say yes and be correct, just as someone may say no and be right as well. On the one hand, skills that destroy/incapacitate enemies ludicrously quickly or give the players invulnerability of some form or another are, undoubtedly, incredibly powerful or even overpowered - they trivialize the game, and should be nerfed in some way. But on the other, one could say these abilities are meant to be that powerful and are necessary if you want to be of any use in a high level mission due to very strong/durable enemies.

As it is right now, there seem to be only two possible outcomes when facing enemies intended to be a "challenge", as ambiguous as that definition is: either the enemy is destroyed immediately, or the player gets roflstomped hard. Have any of you had a confrontation against an Isolator Bursa that had you thinking "Hey, this one is pretty tough, better be careful" instead of "Oh, free credits" or "JESUS CHRIST"? If you have, then more power to you, but most people don't.

If you want cheese to stop, insanely hard enemies have to be stopped, and viceversa. It's not so easy as "nerf this guy".

[Slaviar]

1 hour ago, Fifield said:

Game is too easy.  Of course I don't play it much.  Most veterans just quit and you never hear from them again.

DE need the feedback.

I must yet see veteran who left because game was too easy. But I know quite a few who stopped playing because they got tired of nerfs and grind

[BBOTAA]

4 minutes ago, Slaviar said:

I must yet see veteran who left because game was too easy. But I know quite a few who stopped playing because they got tired of nerfs and grind

Now this I've seen too.
Altough seems like the nerf patrol knows what's best for the game and whats best to keep the players engaged on the grindfest.
Nothing like a good choice of priorities.

[IANOBW]

4 hours ago, Fifield said:

I don't care about my image.  If you're saying I don't have the right to seek challenge in the game, I'd have to disagree with you.

I wasn't, of course you should have the right to seek a challenge in the game. I was saying the part of your post was unnecessary. But whatever.

[Fifield]

11 minutes ago, Achaix said:

It's easy to say "This weapon/ability/warframe is too powerful and removes all challenge from the game, please do something DE" without adding "Also please nerf enemies because otherwise we're helpless".

You do realise this would be self-defeating?

12 minutes ago, Achaix said:

You think those who got to 25 kills in Endless Rathuum played "fairly", without any cheese?

You're forgetting:
1. This is a mode that mostly stopped us from using powers.
2. The enemies were designed and the numbers chosen *based on Tenno power levels*.
3. The enemies were still heavily nerfed within hours.

Comparing Warframe to Dark Souls is laughable.  I died about 20 times before beating the 'tutorial' boss in Dark Souls 3.  If Dark Souls is a 10 on the difficulty scale, Warframe is a 2.

 

[Fifield]

16 minutes ago, Slaviar said:

I must yet see veteran who left because game was too easy.

Why do you think you would see anything?  My whole clan left for this reason last year.

[CaliburxZero]

4 hours ago, ograzzt said:

The problem is not nerfing itself, problem is how they nerfed these abilities. Prism has terribly slow animation speed, it just won't work with LoS at all, because you'll be killed in front of the enemies instantly. Was animation speed buffed to compensate it? No.

Excalibur's radial blind on spin was never a problem, but still they added energy cost to it. Why? Was it OP or what? It wasn't at all. A lot of people used this spin attack for mobility and not for radial blind itself. They could just left radial blind on spin for channeling attacks only. But they didn't.

Mag was known for her good scaling in late game, they completely destroyed it. Yes, her 2 is now much better and 3 can be used to clear low-mid level enemies, but... 400 armor and shields stripping (with 100% energy strength), are you for real? Corrupted heavy gunner on lvl 135 has 13k+ armor, good luck with stripping all this. You'll only need 35 cast without modding power strength and 11 casts with maxed power strength.

Trinity's blessing was nerfed without thinking about the fact that missions like The Jordas Verdict exist. You physically can't be near Trinity if you are the part of Archwing team. Trinity can't even heal you in this case. They could at least wait until they make "medic archwing", but of course they didn't.

Affinity range on interception was nerfed, yet there are huge maps like Cerberus and former Viver (which previously was completey destroyed by DE, I think even if I'd blindly choosed the places for interception towers it still could be better that what they did to it). And now they removed affinity range multiplier for interceptions, good job, DE. Draco is relatively small map, it won't be so damaged as many other maps. Why did they do this? Just because. Let's not talk about Archwing interceptions, it will be even more horrible now to level our gear.

Despite all this nerf army is finally happy, I guess. Keep it up, guys, keep it up.

You.  If I ever meet you in-game I will be your friend.

[Achaix]

11 minutes ago, Fifield said:

You do realise this would be self-defeating?

You're forgetting:
1. This is a mode that mostly stopped us from using powers.
2. The enemies were designed and the numbers chosen *based on Tenno power levels*.
3. The enemies were still heavily nerfed within hours.

Comparing Warframe to Dark Souls is laughable.  I died about 20 times before beating the 'tutorial' boss in Dark Souls 3.  If Dark Souls is a 10 on the difficulty scale, Warframe is a 2.

 

Of course it's self-defeating. That's exactly why it's a problem: it's a vicious cycle either way. Either difficulty increases to combat the cheese, or both sides are nerfed to the ground and the game becomes a -50 on your imaginary difficulty scale (That was hyperbole/overstatement, btw. I have the feeling you need that kind of thing to be pointed out). In both cases, it's a bad scenario.

Admittedly, I did most of my Rathuuming before the nerf. I concede.

I read through some of your other posts in this thread. Dude. You "don't play the game much", but you feel that as a "veteran" you are qualified to give DE complete feedback? Sure, some things are clear as day to everyone, but that's not very logical reasoning.

[Kaisty]

1 hour ago, Zari2015 said:

You don't buy platinum... actually you donate money and the reward is platinum because you can share that platinum with player who never put a penny in this game.

When you trade platinum with players who never throw a penny in this game that platinum becomes = 0$.

Also DE gives "free plat" by streams and "support tickets refund because i bought something by mistake" and that mean DE doesn't care about the platinum you have in inventory.

The bad part is your beloved DE has hide very well by advertisement the name "DONATE" under the name "BUY PLATINUM". Open your eyes next time...

The multi account 75% discount exploit hurts Digital Extreme profit...

First, they may have plat giveaways, but that does not mean players do not purchase play. As for the refunds for accidental purchases, they do it to show some loyalty to the spender. If they had the setup of "too bad, next time watch where you click" they would lose out on those "great reviews" that people give them. 

Second, those discounts are there to entice people to open their wallets when normally the player would spend that money on something else (E.G. Spend steam cash on a game or get that high end plat pack since I got 75% off.) I can attest that back when I would buy platinum, if it was not 50 or 75% off, I would save my money.

Third, they are going to keep having those problems as long as they allow for the discounts. SOE had problems back when they allowed the use of their station cash for certain in game purchases (I.E. DCUO expansion packs and other character extras) because players would wait till double or triple sales and spend wildly. 

Finally, I don't hold DE to any standard that I would not expect from any other company. They may be somebody's beloved company, but I am not them. So trying to tell me that they hide the "donate" button under a "buy plat" tag is a stretch of the imagination. My eyes are open and I don't let fan boyish pride blind me to what Warframe is.

[Slaviar]

51 minutes ago, Fifield said:

Why do you think you would see anything?  My whole clan left for this reason last year.

How do I know this? Hmm... maybe because all my veteran friends are no longer logging? Because all of them got tired of grind? Because they heavily dislike route taken by DE? Is it enough, mister know-it-all?

Edited May 28, 2016 by Slaviar

[Fifield]

30 minutes ago, Achaix said:

Of course it's self-defeating. That's exactly why it's a problem: it's a vicious cycle either way. Either difficulty increases to combat the cheese, or both sides are nerfed to the ground and the game becomes a -50 on your imaginary difficulty scale (That was hyperbole/overstatement, btw. I have the feeling you need that kind of thing to be pointed out). In both cases, it's a bad scenario.

Neither of these are a bad scenario.  It's widely acknowledged that both Tenno and their opponents use way too much cheese.  But the game is still far too easy so you tackle the Tenno cheese first.

34 minutes ago, Achaix said:

I read through some of your other posts in this thread. Dude.

Good, it's not a very long thread.

34 minutes ago, Achaix said:

You "don't play the game much", but you feel that as a "veteran" you are qualified to give DE complete feedback? Sure, some things are clear as day to everyone, but that's not very logical reasoning.

I'm afraid it's your logic that fails.  I don't play the game much because it's far too easy and boring.  I used to play a lot.

 

[texrei]

24 minutes ago, Fifield said:

 I don't play the game much because it's far too easy and boring.  I used to play a lot.

 

So it was time when the game wasn't be easy? 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

I can't help but ask you a question:
 

if you don't want to be in a game where people are spamming ults, then why are you joining random squads? do you expect these randoms to immediately adhere to YOUR way of play? could you not just get friends in your squad that share the same playstyle as you and won't use Ults constantly?

and more nerfs will be OK, as long as they aren't overzealous and there are a few enemy adjustments thrown in there too.

 

Edited May 28, 2016 by (PS4)robotwars7

[DuskLegendary]

Hold on, are you implying that any and all CC such as Vauban's Bastille and Nova's Molecular Prime need to be removed from the game? Because I think CC frames are necessary on certain mission types, and frames like this make those missions tolerable. You gimp Bastille and Molecular Prime for example (The main reason any normal person uses Nova and Vauban) and what's left for those frames? Take away CC in general in this game because it's considered cheese, and we're left with nothing but DPS frames, and that's what concerns me.

I don't want a game that's too easy, nor do I want a game focused around nothing but DPS frames, and I fear if the CC nerf keeps up, this is what the game is going to turn into. I cheese enemies because they cheese me by one shotting me. In today's Interception Sortie the moment I let down my guard with Nova I got overtaken and killed in 2 seconds, literally, I counted. CC is needed, maybe not in the form of Prism map wide cheese tactics, but it is. If extremely difficulty is what you desire, go play Dark Souls.