"Broken Abilities"

[(PSN)EVILFLUFFMONSTER]

Back in early warframe before certain mods existed, those powers were just fine. Invisibility lasted for little time and cost more out of your smaller energy pool so you used it situationally and instead crept around missions carefully.

Same for most powers tbh, we didnt have the energy pool or the mods to make duration builds on anything sustained. Nobody used EV trinity back then at all because blessing and link were so powerful, but that wast so bad either because everything other than rhino was like wet tissue paper on high levels(or what passed for high back then lol)

[Gelkor]

On 5/28/2016 at 8:59 AM, AEP8FlyBoy said:

I'm not sure the passive for the Zenurik or Naramon tree are unbalanced, they are end-game systems afterall.

The other three schools just have relatively weaker (in fact, nearly useless) passive/active abilities. Madurai especially, dealing 0 damage to certain Eximus Units, because of Blast Damage... When it should be an unknown type/Void-based Damage, that nobody could be resistant to, but would deal extra damage to Sentient units. Such as like in the Second Dream, when we carry our Operators back to the Orbiter.

This has always bugged me about madurai, especially since Umbra Lance from Zenurik essentially gets this treatment.  Madurai is terrible and was REALLY poorly advertised for early adopters. 

"Overwhelm the enemy with speed" =/= Crummy Non-Scaling Iron Man Chest Laser. 

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

Honestly I feel like this is just bait.  and said OP is probably upset at some of the nerfs.

Trin was nerfed because it was doing something that DE previously tried to take away from us.  At the end of the day you can still get high DR out of it, bless is still the best heal in the game.  And trin is still the best support frame in the game.

Excal's nerf is happening because the ultimate wasn't a very interactive ability.  You'd stand in a spot and spin around flailing your waves.  Which is basically the same as standing still and spamming pre nerf radial javelin.  He's still going to be a superb damage frame.

Mirage nerf puts it inline with all other blind abilities being LoS.  So consistency.

etc.

Blade storm is only on the chopping block because of 2 reasons.  It's not a very interactive ability for the power it gives.  Which DE has been nerfing things like this for awhile.  On top of the fact that targeted enemies are invulnerable to friendly fire.  Which means until Ash gets to it they are free to hurt your allies without them being able to defend themselves.

 

EV on the other hand isn't broken.  Nor is the amount of energy a player can have.  It's been said over and over that us having unlimited energy isn't what makes certain abilities broken.  It's the abilities themselves.  And besides that DE doesn't want to limit how often we can use abilities.  If they wanted it to be slower paced and more gun focused they would have stuck with cool downs.  DE want's a fast paced flexible game that lets players have the freedom of approaching the situation in a way they want to.

 

Lets say excalibur still had his p4tw radial javelin.  Having good energy efficiency and a huge pool of energy lets me spam the ability.  But if I was limited to only being able to fire it every 20-30 seconds it would still be a strong ability.  all i'd have to do is hide in a corner until I could use it again.  Or stick in the room I just cleared and then move into the next room and fire it off again.  Removing my ability to use an ability frequently VIA energy doesn't change the power of the ability.  It side steps it.

If DE deems the power to be a problem they either change how it works or they mess with how much energy it consumes upon use.  Both ways are an effective way to balance out a problem without a blanket nerf. and it actually addresses the problem.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

Honestly I feel like this is just bait.  and said OP is probably upset at some of the nerfs.

Trin was nerfed because it was doing something that DE previously tried to take away from us.  At the end of the day you can still get high DR out of it, bless is still the best heal in the game.  And trin is still the best support frame in the game.

Excal's nerf is happening because the ultimate wasn't a very interactive ability.  You'd stand in a spot and spin around flailing your waves.  Which is basically the same as standing still and spamming pre nerf radial javelin.  He's still going to be a superb damage frame.

Mirage nerf puts it inline with all other blind abilities being LoS.  So consistency.

etc.

Blade storm is only on the chopping block because of 2 reasons.  It's not a very interactive ability for the power it gives.  Which DE has been nerfing things like this for awhile.  On top of the fact that targeted enemies are invulnerable to friendly fire.  Which means until Ash gets to it they are free to hurt your allies without them being able to defend themselves.

 

EV on the other hand isn't broken.  Nor is the amount of energy a player can have.  It's been said over and over that us having unlimited energy isn't what makes certain abilities broken.  It's the abilities themselves.  And besides that DE doesn't want to limit how often we can use abilities.  If they wanted it to be slower paced and more gun focused they would have stuck with cool downs.  DE want's a fast paced flexible game that lets players have the freedom of approaching the situation in a way they want to.

 

Lets say excalibur still had his p4tw radial javelin.  Having good energy efficiency and a huge pool of energy lets me spam the ability.  But if I was limited to only being able to fire it every 20-30 seconds it would still be a strong ability.  all i'd have to do is hide in a corner until I could use it again.  Or stick in the room I just cleared and then move into the next room and fire it off again.  Removing my ability to use an ability frequently VIA energy doesn't change the power of the ability.  It side steps it.

If DE deems the power to be a problem they either change how it works or they mess with how much energy it consumes upon use.  Both ways are an effective way to balance out a problem without a blanket nerf. and it actually addresses the problem.

[DatDarkOne]

Wow, I can see how some of these would need some tweaks.  I'm really on the fence about some of the nerfs/tweaks that have already happened.  Some made sense.  While others might have been executed poorly (Excal's sliding radial attack one).  

Yet some of these suggestions sound like nerf out of spite or envy.  Prime example, "Nerf Invisibility".  Which Invisibility and why?  Loki, only limited by time so possibly.  Ash, don't know enough about his to even say.  Ivara's Prowl, the most balanced one of the bunch with enough drawbacks to keep it in check.  Now why even nerf invisibility at all?  I don't see how any of it's forms interfere with group play.  From my experience group play hinders the invisible player more because they take double damage when caught in crossfire.   Which is dead because almost every Invis frame has low health and armor.

Of all of Ivara's abilities, the only ones that directly effect group play (not counting utilities) are Sleep and Artemis Bow.  Don't even bother with nerf suggestions for Artemis Bow.  That leaves Sleep as the only one left for any logical discussion of tweaking.  The interesting thing is how.  How do you tweak a skill that still requires you to do something else after you use it?    Stratego89 had some interesting ideas regarding that.  

 

Edited June 6, 2016 by DatDarkOne
added stuff

[Hesyol]

Can we stop with nerfs for some time, ok? I think last patch had enough nerfs for next 6 months

[DeFragMe]

4 minutes ago, Hesyol said:

Can we stop with nerfs for some time, ok? I think last patch had enough nerfs for next 6 months

nah, will continue. simple because they were not nerfs but mostly changes in usage.

[Hesyol]

4 minutes ago, DeFragMe said:

nah, will continue. simple because they were not nerfs but mostly changes in usage.

Some of them were clearly nerfs because they made powers obviously weaker. Well I know a lot of abilities need to be fixed, but lately I'm not sure they know what they are doing, so it would be nice if they stop for some time

[DeFragMe]

Just now, Hesyol said:

Some of them were clearly nerfs because they made powers obviously weaker. Well I know a lot of abilities need to be fixed, but lately I'm not sure they know what they are doing, so it would be nice if they stop for some time

oh they do, its just testing with a few tousand players is easyer and better then testing with just 4-5.

moreover... most people tend to forget that they said that they are not finished yet. also wanting to change a few more things. ... but who knows, maybe after u19 release they will take a break to balancing again?

 

also... weaker , i only noticed on sorties with bad modifiers and level 100+ runs in void.

[DuskLegendary]

So to the people that keep claiming that EV is broken, even if it is, why is this an issue? How is EV broken to you? Yes, Trinity grants unlimited energy and healing, but she's a pure support frame. I don't think DE wants Warframe to be a slow paced, generic shooter. They do like to give us a lot of different options to tackle any given situation. So my question for the Trinity haters: Why do you want Warframe to be a slow paced shooter with very limited use in abilities?

Do you like throwing down tons of pizza pads for energy? Do you like relying on Zenurik Overflow for energy? Do you like dying in tight situation where simply casting one ability could have saved you, had you had enough energy to do so? Sorry, maybe I'm just an idiot, but I just don't understand why EV is an issue here. You guys played many MMORPGs? Every one of them has a Mage class that can heal, debuff/buff, CC, and grant either themselves or team members energy depending on what MMO you're playing. So, Trinity is our Mage class, the Mage of Warframe. Why do people want to throw Trinity under the bus and make her mediocre? 

I mean, I understand that the Oberon players get mad when Trinity is brought up because Trinity > Oberon, but that's an Oberon problem and it just means that Oberon needs a major buff if anything, as he's mixed support and doesn't do it that well.

So... what I'm saying in the end is, I would really rather not rely on Zenurik Overflow, Energy Siphon, and pizza pads just because people are salty that Trinity is good and decide to push for a nerf until it happens. No doubt we'll see less Trinity's around, but why do you want that? How is having more energy so you can use your abilities to complete the objective ever a bad thing? Masochist.

But. I didn't post just to rant. My top broken abilities

1. Bladestorm- This is press 4 to win at it's core. Frames of invincibility, low cost, insane damage output. Might as well use a macro, go afk, and have some dinner.

This is the only true broken ability in my eyes. All the other frames have niches, one or two powerful abilities to build around that I think are okay for the most part.

Edited June 6, 2016 by DuskLegendary

[DeFragMe]

11 minutes ago, DuskLegendary said:

So to the people that keep claiming that EV is broken, even if it is, why is this an issue? How is EV broken to you? Yes, Trinity grants unlimited energy and healing, but she's a pure support frame. I don't think DE wants Warframe to be a slow paced, generic shooter. They do like to give us a lot of different options to tackle any given situation. So my question for the Trinity haters: Why do you want Warframe to be a slow paced shooter with very limited use in abilities?

Do you like throwing down tons of pizza pads for energy? Do you like relying on Zenurik Overflow for energy? Do you like dying in tight situation where simply casting one ability could have saved you, had you had enough energy to do so? Sorry, maybe I'm just an idiot, but I just don't understand why EV is an issue here. You guys played many MMORPGs? Every one of them has a Mage class that can heal, debuff/buff, CC, and grant either themselves or team members energy depending on what MMO you're playing. So, Trinity is our Mage class, the Mage of Warframe. Why do people want to throw Trinity under the bus and make her mediocre? 

I mean, I understand that the Oberon players get mad when Trinity is brought up because Trinity > Oberon, but that's an Oberon problem and it just means that Oberon needs a major buff if anything, as he's mixed support and doesn't do it that well.

So... what I'm saying in the end is, I would really rather not rely on Zenurik Overflow, Energy Siphon, and pizza pads just because people are salty that Trinity is good and decide to push for a nerf until it happens. No doubt we'll see less Trinity's around, by why do you want that? How is having more energy so you can use your abilities to complete the objective ever a bad thing? Masochist.

regarding the reason why at least I say that EV is broken... is simple the speed.

if you use focus, you have to wait a bit to have energ, if you use a plate you also have to wait or place multiple at once.

but on EV you can fill a warframe instant full withou waittime. endlessly on multiple wf in the whole room at once.

Edited June 6, 2016 by DeFragMe
smartphone

[friendofvampires]

2 hours ago, DeFragMe said:

i only noticed on sorties with bad modifiers and level 100+ runs in void

gratz to you? I did some testing with the changes (except mirage. I never use her so no idea) and my results were basically

volt is better
excalibur was deserved except for the slide attack RB cost
valkyr is basically unchanged
mag was nerfed but magnetize is ok I guess

 

[WeebHoodLazy]

·Naramons Shadow step with a crit. weapon is pretty broken. Just because you can stay invisible like the whole mission

Edited June 6, 2016 by Ragurachi_is_love
Misspelled