Dev Workshop Part 3: 18.13.0 Aftermath & Beginnings.

[RAZORLIGHT]

42 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

It bears repeating that more changes are coming soon. We will be hotfixing like mad next week, and getting deeper into difficulty discussions in terms of the enemy. It's been a long time since we have looked at enemy scaling and their spiky damage output, and in that time you've found ways to deal with it.

since you killed the only engame viable frame (valkyr) who wasnt oneshottet all the time you should rebalance the enemies ASAP

[S0ulCal1ber]

can't the warframes themselves just get a massive rework in terms of scaling with rank? 

mods are hardly of any use when you're limited to space and capacity. add more mod slots to the frames might make some improvement to survival chances?

why is the max rank 30 when the "end-game content" can reach levels 100+? would it not add more balance to increase the rank cap on the frames to 50 so hey can scale a bit further?

cap the enemies to 100 tops and reduce there stat scaling? if you're not willing to try the above.

can't mastery rank it's self have a built in passive that have stat modifiers depending on level? 

ex: MR5 = adds 3% (or any chosen number agreed by devs obviously) to all stats, % increases every 5 MR levels? 

can also effect weapons you take into the mission with you.. etc...

just a thought on the scaling.

 

reworks on abilities etc wont cause such a fuss if there was something to help keep a fair fight against high level enemies

[TheEternalJester]

Just now, DemonUnicornLV said:

Backwards thinking at its finest.

Seems to me that my line of thinking is perfectly fine compared to your stagnant, pessimistic thinking.

[Vali]

40 minutes ago, Megakruemel said:

woah. That's a lot of forum activity... What happened at that huge interruption after January 2016 were the graph hits the bottom of the chart?

 

That's most likely when they moved the forums to a new website, it was down for about 3-4 days so the dip makes sense.

[DemonUnicornLV]

Just now, TheEternalJester said:

Seems to me that my line of thinking is perfectly fine compared to your stagnant, pessimistic thinking.

How is it stagnant and pessimistic? That i say you should reconsider the priorities and fix that actualy need fixing? Hinying at-should be fixing them not hinting and thinking about them.

[Joel_The_Jackle]

leave it to DE to break the internet harder than Kim Kardashian's photo....

For real though I think the biggest part of this debacle could have been prevented with better play testing. There are plenty of streamers and youtubers showing how, even when building fully for a skill, it wasn't getting the job done. If a player can see that hours after the update, a play tester should have noticed that within the months and weeks prior to release.

The second thing is communication. Bits a pieces of the re-works were released and it was hyped like getting a new released game for christmas. Then christmas came and it was last years game for a console you don't own....If players knew what was coming ahead of time it could have been hashed out in the forums for a couple weeks rather than getting everyone cosplaying as sargus ruk in a fuel depot. I know alot of the players are angry and I imagine the devs who worked on this for the last several weeks are not the happiest in their lives either. This is one of the most vocal communities of any game I have ever played and if its a bad idea or something needs to be addressed before you release it, put out the ideas and I'm sure you'll get more feedback than you were looking for...

[Cerenax]

Please DE don't listen to the crybabies. If you gave them a literal "press 4 to win" button and then nerfed it they would still complain. Listen only to constructive feedback and keep making the necessary changes to make the game well balanced.

[Slaviar]

That's good you acknowledge enemy cheese. I just hope you will take closer look at that and it will not end on taking a look

[motorfirebox]

49 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

It is with the best intentions that we are committed to reducing cheese. At this time – even with these best intentions of more engaging play - the fundamental issue for many of you is: no amount of engagement counters the enemy's cheese. A select few abilities that we touched 'worked' in the eyes of the players because you could fight fire with fire once you entered a specific threshold of content.

We will be... getting deeper into difficulty discussions in terms of the enemy. It's been a long time since we have looked at enemy scaling and their spiky damage output, and in that time you've found ways to deal with it.

YES. Yes, this. THIS is what I've been waiting for you guys to tackle head-on. This is what needs fixing.

[motorfirebox]

11 minutes ago, DemonUnicornLV said:

Backwards thinking at its finest.

Btw, thx for the effort and updates but this time it is taken too far.

"... and getting deeper into difficulty discussions in terms of the enemy. It's been a long time since we have looked at enemy scaling and their spiky damage output, and in that time you've found ways to deal with it. "

And now you take those means away from us.

...Because they're looking at fixing the problem that those means address.

[RahuHordika]

I hope this means you'll finally be looking at the utter nonsense that are nullifiers (and leeches to a degree) that you kept continuously buffing despite your claims in the past.

Edited May 28, 2016 by RahuHordika

[SiriusStarr]

1 minute ago, motorfirebox said:

...Because they're looking at fixing the problem that those means address.

Once more, if someone has a broken leg, you don't take away their crutches and then try to fix the leg Soon (TM) [probably in a few months].  You fix the leg first and then take away the crutch once they're better.

[(XBOX)ToothlessApollo]

It's ok DE, just if you unintentionally make something suck, just make it unsuck again, that's all. 

[(PSN)decogold]

Similar to a system that you have with the Design Council, you should consider adding a system where a select few members test builds before they are released to the public; instead of testing them in a in-house environment. This way you can gather up feedback based on their experience, and adjust as necessary. These individuals would need to provide a clear line of "non-biased" improvements however, and to not favour a buff/nerf which is not needed.

[Norbac-]

51 minutes ago, giantconch said:

........

 

........

 

........

 

DE makes Ash an even more P42W frame, while taking away squishy frames survivability powers...

 

Waiting to see what you "fix" next...

 

Hopefully frosts globe, walls, roofs, floors can at some point in the future stop explosions and flames from magically passing through their surface...

Don't worry, ash will get ̶r̶e̶w̶o̶r̶k̶e̶d̶ dumpstered soon™.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Norbac-

[Myscho]

Hopefully now we will see some changes at the others side of barricade, not just frames becuase you with nearly immortal enemies at high lvls make perfect conditions to cheese and abusing game mechanics

[Gurpgork]

Having been playing through the update and looking at the numerous changes to the Warframes, it's good to see that you're working on exactly what I've been hoping you're working on. 

Keep on keeping on!

[HipsterOctagon]

There is a good reason why everyone I speak to in warframe still loves this game, its in no small part because of DE. The point isn't to always get things right, but to get things wrong then fix them to be better. Small blips and errors happen, but as far as I am concerned they are always fixed, or will get fixed eventually (even if sometimes it takes a while).

Thanks DE, and Keep up the great work.

[Roboplus]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 At this time – even with these best intentions of more engaging play - the fundamental issue for many of you is: no amount of engagement counters the enemy's cheese. A select few abilities that we touched 'worked' in the eyes of the players because you could fight fire with fire once you entered a specific threshold of content.

Know that no rebalancing of enemy survavability and damage will ever solve this. Enemies have to react to powers differently at different stages of play.

Just as we have ways to counter their attacks and protect ourselves, they need ways to sabotage us and struggle against our powers. And not through immunity or flat resistances, but through AI driven actions.

Take a group of blinded Grineer. At first there's nothing they can do about it. As their level increases a blind Grineer will begin drawing a hand tool of some kind and start sweeping it around. It senses the "Tenno Energy Residue" we hear the Grineer talk about on intercepted communications. They use it to trace where Tenno have been and suddenly being blind doesn't mean being helpless, because if you stand still or only move in predictable ways, they can find you. At higher levels they can even mark you and share that information with other Grineer through their neural links.

After a certain level, blinded Corpus troops will stop to activate something on their helmets and start throwing around grenades that pulse sonar. Their helmets are hooked up to their brain waves and let them see the sounds. Eventually those sonar grenades they throw are instead little sonar robots that walk around and climb up walls.

When enemies aren't helpless to our powers, then they won't have to hit as hard or survive so much.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Roboplus
Clarification

[Latiac]

I've been here a long time and don't have any plans to leave.

 

Sure the update didn't exactly leave me happy, but it's actually great to see you respond to the feedback and it's even better to know that it's being worked on. Sure a few nerfs were needed, but probably not to these extremes. - Glad to see we can all work together and find a common ground, one where we can be happy with a nerf AND have the character still be playable.

 

As harsh as I may have been in some of my feedback, I can't possibly be truly mad at a company like you guys, You actually listen (Sometimes we just don't see or notice that).

[Hazzlenut]

10 minutes ago, SiriusStarr said:

Once more, if someone has a broken leg, you don't take away their crutches and then try to fix the leg Soon (TM) [probably in a few months].  You fix the leg first and then take away the crutch once they're better.

correct.

Warframe = legs.

Mobs = crutches

in all honestly. They are even mentioning in the first post that they are gonna be patching like mad upcomming week. they did mention enemy scaling will be looked at as well.

 

[Fifield]

59 minutes ago, Megakruemel said:

It should be possible if enemies stop one-hit-K.O-ing frames. I think this needs work, not only at the player side but also at the AI side.

I agree re: Ballistas but where else do enemies one-hit players?  Melee sure, but where else?  Even level 120 Bursas don't one hit you if you modded properly.

[h41pa]

Nice :)

But. i still wait for cookiez and U19 ! :D

[o.0-]

Cool, nice to hear that enemy cheese and scaling in next on the table, and hopefully no need to buff Flame Repellent!

I hope that Mod tweaks can be considered along side further ability tweaks and enemy cheese and scaling, so that Mods are at least no longer static as they currently are.

For example, allow mods to adjust to enemy levels so that lower level content is not so easily cheesed. Their high values, such as 220% on Hornet Strike, work fine against high level content but does trivialize too much. I think it would be fine to keep such high Mod values against high level content if the Mod values scaled with content. That way it is still worth it to rank Mods up to handle higher level content, and can add more challenge to more mission nodes in the process.

Hope I'm making sense here.

Regarding enemies, two things I'd like to mention, is to give Commanders a different ability, and maybe give Switch Teleport to Manics, it not too bad of an enemy ability, just seems to make sense for Manics and certainly not for Commanders. 2nd is give Hellion Dargyns a look over with either better warning of their missiles or tone down their one shot ability.

 

[Eminem2420]

A lot of people are not happy right now, but i think its because we as humans tend to be against change. We are creatures of habit, and when things change, we tend to be against them at first, and then we get used to it. People should not be directing profanity at you for any reason. These people have no respect for you, and i can't tell you how much i abhor them. Honestly, all of the changes you have made have been justified. Warframe players don't know what they want. They want cheese removed, but at the same time, they don't want "nerfs" as they call them. Do you make mistakes? Absolutely, but you are just humans, everybody makes mistakes. I don't care what people say, EVERYONE does. DE tends to make up for their mistakes, instead of hiding from them like some companies do. You have earned my respect and support. Keep up the good work.