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[DE]Rebecca

Dev Workshop Part 3: 18.13.0 Aftermath & Beginnings.

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DE please before super nerfing stuff like trin take a look at enemy scaling. It needs a rework more than anything else in game. I love the game and am happy with its progress. This needs however immediate attention. So please before the voide, star chart, draco, or any more reworks please please fix enemy scaling.

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25 minutes ago, PhantomGaming27249 said:

DE please before super nerfing stuff like trin take a look at enemy scaling. It needs a rework more than anything else in game. I love the game and am happy with its progress. This needs however immediate attention. So please before the voide, star chart, draco, or any more reworks please please fix enemy scaling.

This inevitable necessity has been ignored by DE for the longest time.  Why is it that now, as opposed to all the other times enemy scaling could've been adjusted, it should be adjusted?  

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1 minute ago, shootaman777 said:

This inevitable necessity has been ignored by DE for the longest time.  Why is it that now, as opposed to all the other times enemy scaling could've been adjusted, it should be adjusted?  

2 reasons :

1.They've mentioned the lack of attention and their intention to really investigate how to reduce enemy scaling.

2. This nerf is the 1st crucial step, they've gotten rid of 2 of the dominant abilities for combating said scaling, so they can identify where they need to scale back too. I give serration another couple of months and quite possibly an across the board reduction in mod percentages or frame base stats.

Will WF ever make it back to these dizzying heights? Probably, but MR30s will be dashing about.

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A lot of criticism here, some more constructive than others. Too bad there are all these "They're just cry babies, DE keep up the good work Kk? lol kiss kiss wuvs uuu's bwunches" responses to them instead of in-depth back and forth to see where some of you are coming from. I've been reading the forums for the updates since Saturday morning, i'm on consoles so i like to see what exactly is going on before it comes my way and it seems like i'm gonna have to brace myself for the storm that's coming, the Bladestorm that is. The update was made to rework certain frames to "deter" cheesiness  but instead it seems like it will "defer" it to Ash and his Prime counterpart. A lot of you are airing your grievances and i would just like to say that i understand many of you to a certain extent. It seems like DE has quarter-circle quarter-circle strong-nerfed a lot of go-to frames that people have come to love which are also an alternative to the posterchild Killframes that people usually pick. Remember when everyone and their immediate next-of-kin used Saryn? and then they "nerfed" her ulty so many people stopped using her? I feel as though, at least from what i've read that this is what has happened to Steely Mags. Now i don't feel that it's a legit nerf (Hence the quotation marks) to Mag, i feel like they've taken her nuke-ability and decided to make it take far too long to actually nuke enemies which is sort of unfair considering that pass certain enemy levels a single stray bullet can quite possibly cause a chain reaction that ultimately destroys your whole team (seriously, imagine one bullet downs you and everyone who opts to pick you up ends up kicking the bucket?). In certain situations you need that 1 move that either has crazy CC or will kill most everything and combine that with limited weapon options for missions with overly lengthy durations (Survival, interception, Defense) it gets to be aggravating that some combos whether it be certain Warframes put together or maybe that Warframe alone or even with a weapon, get hit with Ser Gregor Clegane's almighty Mountain Nerf while other combos get left untouched is a big debbie downer. Now i'll also admit that some nerfs were warranted such as the almighty swoosh-swoosh and the god-damned Solar Flare, but in some of the frames cases such as mirage who has like only 2 useful abilities now should at least have her Prism damage scale better for higher tier missions especially considering how ferociously the enemies appear and also the lethality of their weapons (I mean seriously it's like their mods have limit breakers on them) now you blind LoS and new enemies walk in and Pew Pew Lasers ftom behind or like from mad far across the map and then your dead.

Considering how enemies scale and how they seem to multiply like cockroaches on higher end missions it would've been nicer if the enemy scaling rework at least came out with this up date so you guys wouldn't get so many snares and glares, but that's just my opinion.

Edited by (PS4)panellgpierre
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45 minutes ago, (PS4)panellgpierre said:

A lot of criticism here, some more constructive than others. Too bad there are all these "They're just cry babies, DE keep up the good work Kk? lol kiss kiss wuvs uuu's bwunches" responses to them instead of in-depth back and forth to see where some of you are coming from.

 

Now i'll also admit that some nerfs were warranted such as the almighty swoosh-swoosh and the god-damned Solar Flare, but in some of the frames cases such as mirage who has like only 2 useful abilities now should at least have her Prism damage scale better for higher tier missions especially considering how ferociously the enemies appear and also the lethality of their weapons (I mean seriously it's like their mods have limit breakers on them) now you blind LoS and new enemies walk in and Pew Pew Lasers ftom behind or like from mad far across the map and then your dead.

 

Considering how enemies scale and how they seem to multiply like cockroaches on higher end missions it would've been nicer if the enemy scaling rework at least came out with this up date so you guys wouldn't get so many snares and glares, but that's just my opinion.

Thanks for saying this.  Someone had to say it, and I'm glad it was sooner, rather than later, on your first point.  

I'd agree that those nerfs were justified, in that they trivialized midgame content, but they made endgame content which already barely doable, slightly easier, and now these abilities are gone.  Also, Prism scaling would be useless, as it does radiation damage, which only works well against a few Grineer and the Phorid.  

I'd agree with that third point, also, but at least they made the claim that they would be hotfixing next week for this issue.  We'll see what they do about it.  They created this mess, let's see how they solve it.  

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I'm sure DE knows to ignore White Knights who kiss their &#! as much as they ignore those who just flame them with no constructive feedback.

 

By "I'm sure", what I really mean, is I've been playing two months, and have high hopes....though after this patch..I worry.

 

As I've said in another thread, love the game, but this patch has seriously killed my motivation to actually play til they take a longer look at some of the changes.  My Main frame, Inaros, is just as ungodly strong as he was before, but now I have little reason to use some of my other frames, such as Valkyr, etc. I don't really want to play this game for one frame, I want to use all the frames I spent time collecting and putting forma into, this is PokeFrame, correct?  

 

Here's my tip for greatest long-term viability of Warframe- Give us a reason to use any frame, instead of an incredibly limited meta where only 4-5 frames dominate everything, and you're kicked out or not allowed to use fun frames, simply because they tend to not work all that well.  It's PVE, it really, really should not be all that hard to balance.....Sorry, but it's not like there's a massive PvP presence in this game, no one cares, so ignore that balance, make more frames fun, usuable, and end-game worthy, and you'll have some happier players.

 

And I say again...Oberon's passive is a cruel joke, just as Rebecca seemed to predict during the stream....It was a bad idea then, it's still a bad, lame ability, and what's his face should feel bad for championing it.

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On 5/28/2016 at 7:39 PM, DarkOvion said:

Ok, so, that is one place, in the forums.

One thread, stating it's an open beta, posted in 2012, locked and 4 sub forums in.

The End User License Agreement, Terms of Use and Privacy Policy make no mention of it.

The EULA even states:

Warframe® (the “Game”) is a free-to-play computer game developed and operated by Digital Extremes Ltd.  In this agreement, “Digital Extremes” or “DE” means Digital Extremes Ltd., an Ontario, Canada Corporation; “you” and “your” mean the user of the computer on which the Game will be or has been installed.

Not that it's a Beta, open or otherwise.

The Steam Page doesn't list it as 'Early Access', as Beta, or anything, it lists it as a full, Free to Play, Action, Co-Op, Third Person Shooter, with a release date.

Either Digitial Extremes is delusional, 'forgot' to include it, or is being deliberately misleading so if anything happens, they can absolve themselves of all blame, dredging up an ancient, hidden document touting 'Open Beta'. (which sadly appears to be the case).

As much as I love the game (1,800 hours, spent £120+ recommended to at least 12 friends, and still playing despite burnout / disappointment at the latest wave of horrendous grind)  ... that's bad.

Either be honest and clearly label it as open beta, adding a .ob. to the version to make it clear, or drop the pretense.

You asked , so i provided. 
The login screen used to have a beta tag.

But i totally agree , haven't seen it in a while.

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1 hour ago, Neo_182 said:

You asked , so i provided. 
The login screen used to have a beta tag.

But i totally agree , haven't seen it in a while.

AY, and as much as anything, I was folding it into my question for the devs.

I really would like an 'official' answer here.

It's honestly either an error, or the dodgiest thing they've done.

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Give Ember a toggle ability that can shoot fireball like Staticor, charge, and melee with it. (Scales with Secondary mods and Melee)

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1 hour ago, --Valkyr said:

Give Ember a toggle ability that can shoot fireball like Staticor, charge, and melee with it. (Scales with Secondary mods and Melee)

In place of the first ability?  And how would this work?  Before you say 'make this happen', you may want to specify what exactly it is that you would like to happen.  

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Love this game so much that i completely forgotten how long i have been playing. Nevertheless how great the Dev team is. You know the game is good if you acknowledge the devs and know their names, know which devstream has which contents, the lovable personality of the devs, how they contributed into improving warframe.  

Though lip service is one thing, but what matters is the actions taken to solve the problems.

Once that is solved, I believe the community will be satisfied as a whole. But i think I must say that the increase of forum posts and threads by the community just shows that how warframe is part of our life and that many of us have already acknowledge it to be an inseparable entity. 

I can bet that those that says that they spent 2000 hours and they said that they quit, sounding really cold-hearted, aren't really meaning it. Needless to say that they have a founder status or no founder status, the matter is that they contributed to the thread as a reply just shows how the game matters to them. 

This thread, just shows how great the community is alone. 

Make current priority to this and it will be great (not sure if anyone has said this, but i'll write it just in case) : 

1) Enemy scaling (Top Priority) 

While various warframes are getting a look at, the ability to be be able to "Press 4 to win", "Press 2 to win" or etc, are mostly mainly because of how immeasurably overpowered the enemies are. It should be a case where enemies are still within the manageable range even though it is hard for players, while giving a rationale reason behind the death of the players. By implementing enemy scaling changes, It could allow a good balance to the game, but still, it's not complete yet.   

2) Trinity's Blessing and Mag Changes (Top Priority) 

I can believe that it's because of these two changes that give mixed reviews. 

  • Trinity
  • Though I agree to a certain extent that Trinity's infinite-like range is quite overpowered, the range should be restricted to a point where squad is able to receive easily. Make it exception to only trinity and giving a better range of at least 150/200 instead of 50m, just for trinity. This is extremely important for tough missions like raid, jordas verdict which is built for trinity's blessing before nerf, and other conditions that affects.
  •  Mag 
  • Mag's polarise should be scaled enough to a level where it is able to kill enemy, but not entirely kill sortie level enemies easily. Make it to a point where it's still potent to low level missions, good example will be sayrn's miasma or spores, which is still able to kill level 20 grineers easily. 

That's all for my opinion, thanks. 

 

 

Edited by -PP-Sonicz
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On 28.05.2016 at 8:41 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

It bears repeating that more changes are coming soon. We will be hotfixing like mad next week, and getting deeper into difficulty discussions in terms of the enemy. It's been a long time since we have looked at enemy scaling and their spiky damage output, and in that time you've found ways to deal with it.

I'm happy that there is a finely a movement in the right direction, so not all things will feel broken and all skills will have a purpose.
But the assumption if we (the players) have "found ways to deal with it" is at the same times right and wrong. Players mostly found a easy way around the difficulties for a easy kill- like the LoS-less prism, or heavy hitters like tonkor. 
Both weapons and enemy scaling STILL need a lot of attention.

I just hope that devs dint drop the idea of mentioned long time ago of weapon leveling, mandatory mod and enemy scaling rework.
 

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On 5/28/2016 at 9:41 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

In direct respect to 18.13.0:

More changes are coming – I wish I could give you a list now of exactly what but the list can only be built over time this weekend the longer we spend playing and extrapolating feedback. It is with the best intentions that we are committed to reducing cheese. At this time – even with these best intentions of more engaging play - the fundamental issue for many of you is: no amount of engagement counters the enemy's cheese. A select few abilities that we touched 'worked' in the eyes of the players because you could fight fire with fire once you entered a specific threshold of content. The tight-rope of frustration is high, and the changing of the meta can be painful. In our eyes some meta elements simply harmed the quality of the gameplay taking place. However, 'finality' is not a word I'd ever associate with our Dev process, and as flawed as that may sound I think it's one of the reasons we're such a tight-knit community is because time and time again we set the course together. As the say, if you want an omelette you have to crack a few eggs (I don't actually know if they say that).  

THANK YOU!!!!! thank you thank you thank thank you thaaaaaaaank you!!!! Hmm i think i need a change of pants, the fact that this is finaly directly acknowladged by the devs gives the so much hope. I said it back then to the saryn rework was absolutely awsome... in a differant game , fact of the matter is past a certain point you simply do not have the 3-4 seconds it takes to cast spores, put up toxic lash, meele the enemy then miasma (and then wait for them to die to dots) , you'll be dead ten times over.

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"Every time we shake things up – no matter how lightly - the impact is objectively better."

Objectively?

Seems more to me like every time you shake things up the impact makes the game more tedious to play. Affinity nerfs, focus nerfs, removing coptering (I'm still sad), countless ability nerfs- everything seems to increase the grind and decrease my desire to play the game and have 

Spoiler

fun.

Honestly, if you guys don't pull out something amazing soon to justify this latest batch of aggravated assault with the nerf stick, I'm probably going to be done with this game and spend my time on others that I actually enjoy.

Edited by Youre_Waifu
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15 minutes ago, -PP-Sonicz said:

Love this game so much that i completely forgotten how long i have been playing. Nevertheless how great the Dev team is. You know the game is good if you acknowledge the devs and know their names, know which devstream has which contents, the lovable personality of the devs, how they contributed into improving warframe.  

Though lip service is one thing, but what matters is the actions taken to solve the problems.

Once that is solved, I believe the community will be satisfied as a whole. But i think I must say that the increase of forum posts and threads by the community just shows that how warframe is part of our life and that many of us have already acknowledge it to be an inseparable entity. 

I can bet that those that says that they spent 2000 hours and they said that they quit, sounding really cold-hearted, aren't really meaning it. Needless to say that they have a founder status or no founder status, the matter is that they contributed to the thread as a reply just shows how the game matters to them. 

This thread, just shows how great the community is alone. 

What was the point of mentioning this?  

16 minutes ago, -PP-Sonicz said:

Make current priority to this and it will be great (not sure if anyone has said this, but i'll write it just in case) : 

1) Enemy scaling (Top Priority) 

While various warframes are getting a look at, the ability to be be able to "Press 4 to win", "Press 2 to win" or etc, are mostly mainly because of how immeasurably overpowered the enemies are. It should be a case where enemies are still within the manageable range even though it is hard for players, while giving a rationale reason behind the death of the players. By implementing enemy scaling changes, It could allow a good balance to the game, but still, it's not complete yet.   

2) Trinity's Blessing and Mag Changes (Top Priority) 

I can believe that it's because of these two changes that give mixed reviews. 

  • Trinity
  • Though I agree to a certain extent that Trinity's infinite-like range is quite overpowered, the range should be restricted to a point where squad is able to receive easily. Make it exception to only trinity and giving a better range of at least 150/200 instead of 50m, just for trinity. This is extremely important for tough missions like raid, jordas verdict which is built for trinity's blessing before nerf, and other conditions that affects.
  •  Mag 
  • Mag's polarise should be scaled enough to a level where it is able to kill enemy, but not entirely kill sortie level enemies easily. Make it to a point where it's still potent to low level missions, good example will be sayrn's miasma or spores, which is still able to kill level 20 grineers easily. 

That's all for my opinion, thanks. 

I'd agree that enemy scaling is a large issue, and the need to find a way to 'cheese' content arose from it.  

In regards to Trinity, what are you talking about with the range numbers you threw out there?  Are you talking about the healing?  The damage reduction?  This seems unclear.  

In regards to Mag, I would say, not to be insulting, that you've got the ability backwards.  The reworked Polarize is meant to debuff enemies, not necessarily to kill them.  However, it fails miserably at that, as a max strength built Polarize cannot reduce the armor enough on a level 135 Heavy Gunner to make any weapons viable enough to kill said Heavy Gunner, nor does it affect shield of enemies drastically enough, by the same token.  In fact, the augment for Mag's 4th ability that reduces enemy armor by a flat 50% is far more effective in doing the same thing, which is why I find this new Polarize to be absolutely useless, as an augment on a build with no added power strength and an Overextended can produce a better result than an entire power strength build dedicated to an ability (Polarize).  Also, Saryn's Miasma and Spores are on the level where they can kill level 135 Heavy Gunners easily, so comparing the newer, S#&$tier Polarize to such a good ability pair is just short of a sacrilege.  I've tested out what I am telling you in the Simulacrum while a friend was watching through screen sharing on Skype, so we could both tell you that what I am telling you in this paragraph is true.  

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Some reworks need some tweaks, some passives are way better then others but overall i'm happy about it (i love new mag) and you need to continue this trend, there are still some things that trivialize content out there.

On 5/28/2016 at 8:41 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

It's been a long time since we have looked at enemy scaling and their spiky damage output, and in that time you've found ways to deal with it.

And finally we deal with this problem too. 

angstrum Comba / corpus tech / osprey / napalm / scorch / arson bombard / physical enhancement sorties / knock down bursa / too many energy leech spawn / grineer commander just to name a few.

Anyway, thanks again for finally addressing a little bit balance in this game (from both side). 

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22 minutes ago, Youre_Waifu said:

"Every time we shake things up – no matter how lightly - the impact is objectively better."

Objectively?

Seems more to me like every time you shake things up the impact makes the game more tedious to play. Affinity nerfs, focus nerfs, removing coptering (I'm still sad), countless ability nerfs- everything seems to increase the grind and decrease my desire to play the game and have 

  Reveal hidden contents

fun.

Honestly, if you guys don't pull out something amazing soon to justify this latest batch of aggravated assault with the nerf stick, I'm probably going to be done with this game and spend my time on others that I actually enjoy.

fun or not fun - some things that where completely broken (and e.g. destroying the whole concept of creating maps - like coptering) need to be changed or completely removed if we want a fair gameplay for all players who are and do not use a certain mechanics.

as i remember the same uproar when devs removed ability mods and reduced the mod slot count. in both cases - players where using certain builds that have exploiting broken mechanics.
the game and its mechanics still need some work. and as i mentioned earlier -  weapon leveling, mandatory mod and enemy scaling rework could help will all our problem if done properly.

for the content like sorties/ trail most of us are using mechanics that can be broken in a way. and that is a fact.

Edited by Kracken

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7 minutes ago, Youre_Waifu said:

"Every time we shake things up – no matter how lightly - the impact is objectively better."

Objectively?

Seems more to me like every time you shake things up the impact makes the game more tedious to play. Affinity nerfs, focus nerfs, removing coptering (I'm still sad), countless ability nerfs- everything seems to increase the grind and decrease my desire to play the game and have 

  Reveal hidden contents

fun.

Honestly, if you guys don't pull out something amazing soon to justify this latest batch of aggravated assault with the nerf stick, I'm probably going to be done with this game and spend my time on others that I actually enjoy.

That's just the problem.  DE seems to be ignoring the fact that swinging around the nerf stick demoralizes players and gives them less of an incentive to play this game, and only paying attention to the people that say "Keep up the good work!" without considering the fact that DE has not done good work with these nerfs to begin with, as the underlying problems that led to the prior 'abuse' of the nerfed abilities have been substantially ignored.  

In addition, DE ends up siding with players that say that 'people posting that they will or may not play Warframe anymore thanks to the nerfs are just *@##$ing and moaning', and etc., in how they referred to 'players predicting the end of days' in the OP of this thread.  Now, if only a few people were saying that 'oh, no, this is the end of Warframe, DE nerfed ____', then I would see DE's and related players' point.  But first, consider this.  For someone to take their time to go to the forums and even bother posting this means that they at least feel that there is a concrete reason that these nerfs that they speak of are ruining the game altogether.  In addition, the fact that many people are doing this indicates that this is a sentiment shared by many Warframe players, and that there is a substantial problem that needs to be addressed, as many people saying the same thing generally have at least one collectively good point to offer to anyone willing to listen.  Instead, they are ridiculed, and their potentially constructive criticism just gets labelled as complaints and abuse at DE.  Sometimes, that is exactly what it is, but can DE really blame players for being frustrated with them when they nerf much-loved abilities?  Who knows?  But what I can tell you is that every player who comes onto the forums and writes something has at least one reason they perceive to be valid for writing whatever they write, and instead of being ridiculed due to the content of their writing, they may just have great ideas with really S#&$ty presentation which could be unveiled by actually communicating with these players, as opposed to marginalizing and ignoring them.

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11 minutes ago, Gilmaesh said:

Some reworks need some tweaks, some passives are way better then others but overall i'm happy about it (i love new mag) and you need to continue this trend, there are still some things that trivialize content out there.

And finally we deal with this problem too. 

angstrum Comba / corpus tech / osprey / napalm / scorch / arson bombard / physical enhancement sorties / knock down bursa / too many energy leech spawn / grineer commander just to name a few.

Anyway, thanks again for finally addressing a little bit balance in this game (from both side). 

How you can love the new Mag, as it has little to no squad synergy, and has even less endgame usability than it had prior to the rework, is a mystery to me.  

In regards to the enemy scaling fix that is supposedly coming, we'll just have to wait and see how well that goes.  Also, why would you thank DE for balancing the game from both sides, when they have done nothing yet of any sort to balance enemies since the nerfs to the Tenno in update 18.13, meaning that all they've done is take away your Tenno capabilities with only a blanket 'We'll try to make some changes to enemies maybe next week' (which is not addressing the issue from both sides, as the only major changes so far have been to the Tenno)?  

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15 minutes ago, Kracken said:

for the content like sorties/ trail most of us are using mechanics that can be broken in a way. and that is a fact.

Not by choice, by necessity.  And no, endgame content is nowhere near enjoyable, since the enemies are so broken that players must resort to using broken and overused abilities to combat these broken enemies, which is the not enjoyable part, but this is the only reliable and efficient method of acquiring gear such as arcane enhancements.  I think that you're ignoring the fact that broken abilities are necessary to deal with broken enemies, by saying that 'the abilities are broken, which is not a good thing, so it's good that they were removed', while not mentioning the large causation for using these abilities - that there is content that almost demands brokenness.  

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1 hour ago, shootaman777 said:

In place of the first ability?  And how would this work?  Before you say 'make this happen', you may want to specify what exactly it is that you would like to happen.  

uhm, I never say "make this happen", I just say it casually. Why are you triggered by such a brief reply?

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1 hour ago, shootaman777 said:

Not by choice, by necessity.  And no, endgame content is nowhere near enjoyable, since the enemies are so broken that players must resort to using broken and overused abilities to combat these broken enemies, which is the not enjoyable part, but this is the only reliable and efficient method of acquiring gear such as arcane enhancements.  I think that you're ignoring the fact that broken abilities are necessary to deal with broken enemies, by saying that 'the abilities are broken, which is not a good thing, so it's good that they were removed', while not mentioning the large causation for using these abilities - that there is content that almost demands brokenness.  

No i did not forgot about it . 
I hope that DE have not dropped the mentioned long time ago weapon leveling, mandatory mod and enemy scaling rework. that would help a lot in many ways. any news about it ceased. and now we have to deal with abilities balancing for more competitive/ challenging / tactical approach of smaller scale problem.

the big problem what is causing all this is the mentioned enemy scaling (and other factors) by a lot of us.

I also pointed a possibility of adding cooldowns to warframe abilities without resorting to bigger nerfs as a nessesary balancing mechanics way before that idea was shoot down by Scot on a devstream.

Edited by Kracken

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Before I start its not my desire to be critical of the development process here, far from it I hope this is taken by any staff who read the following as constructive critique with a desire to see a new positive process change intended to improve the game for all players and perhaps put the development and testing team in a space where they can be seen as a positive influence on the game, instead of a destructive force that breaks things. With that said, I begin:

Something I've been thinking reading this very long thread is that DE never seemed to care at all about enemy scaling until the forums made an uproar about it after this patch. What that says to me is that this is only a problem in DE's eyes because we made it be a problem in their eyes by talking about it nonstop this week.

This raises the question... Does the DE Development team play this game? Who actually does these beta tests before they go out to the playerbase? Is there an actual employee of DE who has somewhere in his job description: "Test new changes before they are released out to the public"? Is this theoretical person only checking if a new weapon/ability works without crashing the game or if it is also useful in the majority of content and functions in a way that isn't a sad joke past level 60? Does anything at all get checked or tested in content before it goes out to players in any kind of realistic inside public Warframe environment? An environment where cheat codes aren't turned on for testers and the enemies are above level 60? A place where there isnt an infinite pool of energy and health sitting next to the tester? A place where Nullifiers and Eximus and other high level nonsense is standing around waiting to be hit by these new weapons and powers? What I'm basically asking: Is testing of new weapons and powers done literally in the Simulacrum with a single enemy spawned at level 20 or 40 before its handed off to the players?

I know this all sounds like I'm being facetious, but consider that this might actually be the testing environment being used in reality for Warframe If thats the case then all of these changes begin to suddenly make a lot of sense from a developer/tester's balance perspective. I find it difficult to believe that there is a way a developer could make these extreme balance changes, who also happens to play Warframe themselves on a regular basis doing endgame content, who could also possibly think to themselves that this change they are making isn't a complete and total waste of time because it literally doesn't function in the content its being made for because of how obnoxiously cheesy and bullet spongy the enemies already are.

The only explanation that make sense of it all is if the Development team doesn't have any time at all to actually play the game itself in anything remotely beyond mid-game content, and the testers also aren't checking if this stuff functions for end game content as well. If that happens to be the case then I get it, there is probably a monetary reason for that if its true. If this happens to be exactly what the situation is though, then why are balance changes not discussed with the public prior to being implemented in the first place? It cant possibly be good for the games longevity and long term income potential to intentionally irritate the players like this.

To the Developer team I say this, if the situation happens to be how I suspect things are being run behind the scenes. Where you aren't given any time to test things yourself because of budget and/or time constraints by Management, and whatever testers you have are not checking things to a satisfactory level for the players to not get upset over immediately. Why not bring this discussion to upper managements attention? Surely they cant be upset with you for taking an active interest in preventing people from wanting to leave or quit the game?

Maybe the take away from all this is that is the development team and the tester team needs to hire an employee who's job is just to balance the game out. A DE employee comes to work every day and checks statistics on what weapons and abilities are in need of changes. Someone who tests out builds to find out what balance adjustments need to be made where. An employee who is given the time to sit down with a high quality test environment and check what things combine to add cheese where perhaps a nerf is needed, or what things are so low tier that they are only mastery rank trash and desperately need to be brought up in power (I'd estimate 85% of the games weapon library and 60% of the Warframes currently fall into this category in post level 60 content). This is easily a full time position considering the scale of the games massive weapon library and Warframe power list. The job would likely even pay for itself considering if these older weapons were getting new balance passes every other week, think of the volume of formas that would sell on the storefront and the increase in player interest, which inevitably leads to larger player bases and more cash shop activity... It would be a fiscal mistake to not invest in a position like this with this kind of reaction coming from the players after balance sweeps. Sure nerfs will always cause some to be upset, but if the players see its being done with reason instead of haphazardly then balance changes will turn to a thing players can get (and remain) excited about instead of resulting in crushing disappointment.

Just something to consider DE, in the off chance someones actually reading this who works in your office.

Edited by Khlamydia
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15 hours ago, shootaman777 said:

Thanks for saying this.  Someone had to say it, and I'm glad it was sooner, rather than later, on your first point.  

I'd agree that those nerfs were justified, in that they trivialized midgame content, but they made endgame content which already barely doable, slightly easier, and now these abilities are gone.  Also, Prism scaling would be useless, as it does radiation damage, which only works well against a few Grineer and the Phorid.  

I'd agree with that third point, also, but at least they made the claim that they would be hotfixing next week for this issue.  We'll see what they do about it.  They created this mess, let's see how they solve it.  

100% agree with Panell as well.  Had to be said.  There's always going to be those shills or 'white knights' for anything who will defend everything, thinking X or Y dev can do no wrong.  basically "I'm Right You're Wrong.  If you don't view the game (or anything in life) the same way I view it, you suck. You don't matter, you just a whiner! keep it up dev, ignore whiners"

Personally it feels like a slap in the face.  This is my SECOND ever post on this forum (first was small mention on a bug. also MR19 here, and supported platinum in the past), and yes Rebecca is right about surge in activity.  When I heard about 18.13  I knew I had to say something.  So my story: when I started playing, I got into it, and I fell in love with it.  as a RESULT, I felt fine buying platinum (during previous updates) because I wanted to support this game. and subsequently the company and income of the employees within. And there's a long post from a user in the "hotfix 18.13.1" topic that mostly shares my feelings on the matter too.  

I concur with other consumers who said the order change was backwards- the enemy scaling and other stuff should've been retooled first, and then the 'nerfs' of 18.13 can come after to match. 

But as for specifics:  

I am actually FINE with the Mirage change.  But Valkyr, Trinity, and Excalibur not as much.  

Excalibur: being a big fav of mine, I felt like DE's explanation in the notes was off.  It's like some of the designers just assumed 95% of Excal users spam E Blade and go into 'turret mode' while crouching all day or something. As a Excal user I do NOT do that.  Hardly ever.  I close distance more often than not, even in void DEF.  Reducing damage over distance and especially enemy puncture doesn't make or force me to be more 'dynamic', but rather it's discouraging for endgame/survival people who want that output as the enemy scales up. Refer to topic and post I linked above- the current state of the grind game and difficulty is as such that we use certain tools/frame/abilities in late game to make said grind more TOLERABLE.  Drop rates can be low enough as is, meaning I would find myself grinding for hours, replaying keys and missions many many times.  At least let me retain an excalibur that isn't gimped.    Suggestion-  KEEP the energy cost on slide attack blind, but revert the changes to PUNCTURE damage dropoff (as its useful in huge groups of late game enemies).  If you want to keep the DISTANCE drop-off effect, then Ok... Because I feel most players close distance anyway.

Valkyr and Trinity:  I'd like to refer to Darth mufins blog on the Wiki.  He has good insights. 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Darthmufin/Update_18.13:_The_Rage_Update%3F

For trinity tho, my personal suggestion would include keeping global range for Blessing, BUT if any allies are outside of an 'ideal' 50m range, they simply receive LESS amounts of healing.  I think global range is useful for teams say on a spy mission or trial, where people would split up to complete objectives, and speed things up.

For Valkyr, I like the last paragraph from Darthmufins post: 

If you were to ask me how i would fix hysteria then, i would make it so it uses more energy at first, and uses less and less the longer it's used, but after a certain period you start doing less and less damage also, and after a certain cap your hysteria starts fading away and you start taking damage again. That would feel like more of a berserker, not hysteria on all the time or just in short bursts.

 

Conclusion

I'm just being 100% honest with my feelings as a Rank 19 paying customer (I've even told friends to check out the game, I said "BEST F2P GAME EVER" to encourage them), don't care what any resident defenders respond with, I'm not even a frequent poster, and probably won't come back here to post more (I'd rather game).  My intent coming here tonight was to voice my personal feelings and let the dev know how IT affects my enthusiasm and MY will to keep playing.  So as of 18.13- I feel DIS-couraged, not encouraged. And for F2P games, player retention is vital is it not.   I was thinking about quitting until U-19 rolls out while playing other games in the meantime. Hopefully by then things will be re rebalanced.

( ^_^)b

Edited by (PS4)Bushido-Rises
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