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Turbulence still not fixed


ZizWing

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Ever since the (grineer) hit-scan accuracy changes a while ago, Zephyr's turbulence has been broken causing all kinds of "inconsistency" complaints. The issue lies in jumping, yes that's right jumping. Being airborne as a birdframe can kill you quicker than anything else. Allow me to explain:

When you jump, bulletjump or aimglide at a certain height above the position you jumped from, your turbulence WILL NOT DEFLECT ANY HIT-SCAN BULLETS. The horizontal position does not matter. Whenever you jump, there will be a height everywhere on the map for about your frame's height (maybe more, hard to tell) where you will not deflect these bullets. (see EDIT 2 for exact issue, found thanks to reddit comments) I tested this quite a while ago when I finally started noticing it specifically when jumping. I highly recommend you watch the following video as I go through nearly every parkour move I could think of and tested it against high level heavygunners. The result is extremely clear.

 

 

Feel free to skip through it a bit since I first show only 1 heavygunner. the issue becomes instantly apparent when facing a group, which is the case in... like... the entire game...

So please DE, please just fix this ability of my favorite frame to date. I have tried multiple times to get your attention on this issue but all attempts have failed. People often complain Zephyr is inconsistent and underused. This is one of the reasons, so please fix it! She can be tonnes of fun to use once you get accustomed to her playstyle and it makes me sad this is still an issue.

EDIT: Made a post on reddit too now. it seems to be getting a lot more attention there. I will remain active on both the forums and reddit as much as I can so choose whichever you prefer. I do recommend the reddit post since it is slightly more up to date due to the comments there: https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/4nsj44/bug_turbulence_hitscan_inconsistency_source_found/

EDIT 2: Source of the issue found!

I did some more testing today and it seems u/so_says_sage was correct. It is not a specific height that is the issue. It is the issue with the enemy's line of fire. When turbulence is active and they are within range, their vertical aiming seems to be disabled. They only shoot straight forward even though they do look up towards the player.

A possible fix for this would be having them aim next to the player by 1 * (insert range modifier here) meters. Depending on how AI aiming works this can be difficult although mirage's hall of mirrors is already able to have offset clones, so why not offset invisible targets? The same could be applied to the enemy's vertical aiming. When you are above their Y position they will aim 1 * (range) meters below you and when you are below them 1 * (range) meters above you. This would keep Zephyr alive in the air for the most part but it would keep the current system (minus the vertical aim bug) when on the ground. It would still be balanced and also work according to her suggested playstyle.

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I tested this back before in like u16 and the same problem happened.

I'm tired of the DE ignoring the Zephyr players, when they announced the next frame they were going to rework was limbo, my jaw dropped.

I was done.

It's like the Majority of the Forums has negative thoughts about Zephyr, Yet DE doesn't really care at all. They reworks and changed a bunch of frames in u18.13, yet they couldn't even fix the turbulence problem with Zephyr since u13...

She's so outdated, and to see her being left in the dust of other frames is Sad. She's literally hanging from a string. If they don't rework her soon, I'm done, I'm probably going to quit warframe.

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11 hours ago, (PS4)abb12355 said:

I tested this back before in like u16 and the same problem happened.

I'm tired of the DE ignoring the Zephyr players, when they announced the next frame they were going to rework was limbo, my jaw dropped.

I was done.

It's like the Majority of the Forums has negative thoughts about Zephyr, Yet DE doesn't really care at all. They reworks and changed a bunch of frames in u18.13, yet they couldn't even fix the turbulence problem with Zephyr since u13...

She's so outdated, and to see her being left in the dust of other frames is Sad. She's literally hanging from a string. If they don't rework her soon, I'm done, I'm probably going to quit warframe.

I know what you mean, though I don't think the forums is completely negative about her... more neutral because not many players actually use her. What did surprise me though is that her passive did not get looked at. I mean, sure the floatyness is nice to have but... compared to some other passives it's quite lackluster. Not as much as loki's passive though.

Anyway, I'm happy to see someone finally paying attention to this topic after 2 or 3 attempts of reporting it. Though as I expected it's a fellow Zephyr player. Normally when these kinds of bugs happen where it comes down to survivability being completely broken, the amount of hate and spam about it is all over the forums and it's fixed within a week. Yet it's been over 4 months since I discovered the exact issue and even longer since it has been present, but no replies ever until now. I hope this will get noticed more soon.

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7 hours ago, zY_Spartan_Yz said:

 Normally when these kinds of bugs happen where it comes down to survivability being completely broken, the amount of hate and spam about it is all over the forums and it's fixed within a week. Yet it's been over 4 months since I discovered the exact issue 

Ik, if there was a problem or glitch with a popular frame like Loki, DE would instantly fix it because it the community would flip out. 

But with Zephyr, there are 2 options, they know, but there are not enough players talking about it to care, or they don't know, but in this case, we know they know because they talked about these inconsistencies many times.

I feel like I'm despite at this point, I'm losing hope. It feels like they will never fix this problem even though it has been apparent for the last 2 years.

It would be better if DE looks at all there frames equally. In DEs eyes a popular frame has lots more priority then a Non popular frame. That's something that needs to end.

 

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59 minutes ago, (PS4)abb12355 said:

Ik, if there was a problem or glitch with a popular frame like Loki, DE would instantly fix it because it the community would flip out. 

But with Zephyr, there are 2 options, they know, but there are not enough players talking about it to care, or they don't know, but in this case, we know they know because they talked about these inconsistencies many times.

I feel like I'm despite at this point, I'm losing hope. It feels like they will never fix this problem even though it has been apparent for the last 2 years.

It would be better if DE looks at all there frames equally. In DEs eyes a popular frame has lots more priority then a Non popular frame. That's something that needs to end.

 

I do think that is somewhat fair though. As a developer you want to improve your game in the most efficient way, especially an ongoing one like warframe. this will ensore most players stay interested aka they will be able to keep working and make money.

About the inconsistencies... I'm pretty sure they meant the random chance to let bullets through the shield. It's supposed to do this with hitscan weapons in order to balance it a bit. It puts it in line with other abilities like mesa's shatter shield that gets an armor reduction. In a way their survivability is similar, yet the type of deflecting is different. What the devs probably don't know is about this jumping issue. Since not many people use Zephyr as actively as we do, they probably assume it is the "inconsistency" of the ability or in other words the random chance to let the bullet through. This then makes people think Zephyr deflects too few bullets and then they move on to other frames.

To be fair it took me quite a while before I noticed Zephyr had this issue. At first I too thought it was some random inconsistency. With over 20% usage on Zephyr alone I'm pretty confident in saying that this is a bug they are not aware of. If they were, it would have been fixed long ago. DE are not the kind of people to let an important bug like this in the game just because few people use it.

Sadly all we can do now is pray to RNGesus that one of the devs reads this. Last time nobody did so I hope this time things will turn out different.

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2 hours ago, zY_Spartan_Yz said:

I do think that is somewhat fair though. As a developer you want to improve your game in the most efficient way, especially an ongoing one like warframe. this will ensore most players stay interested aka they will be able to keep working and make money.

About the inconsistencies... I'm pretty sure they meant the random chance to let bullets through the shield. It's supposed to do this with hitscan weapons in order to balance it a bit. It puts it in line with other abilities like mesa's shatter shield that gets an armor reduction. In a way their survivability is similar, yet the type of deflecting is different. What the devs probably don't know is about this jumping issue. Since not many people use Zephyr as actively as we do, they probably assume it is the "inconsistency" of the ability or in other words the random chance to let the bullet through. This then makes people think Zephyr deflects too few bullets and then they move on to other frames.

To be fair it took me quite a while before I noticed Zephyr had this issue. At first I too thought it was some random inconsistency. With over 20% usage on Zephyr alone I'm pretty confident in saying that this is a bug they are not aware of. If they were, it would have been fixed long ago. DE are not the kind of people to let an important bug like this in the game just because few people use it.

Sadly all we can do now is pray to RNGesus that one of the devs reads this. Last time nobody did so I hope this time things will turn out different.

Good luck, personally I doubt a dev will read this because I made a thread with 24 Favorites, and no response from the Devs

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hey, thereygo. some sort of reliable repro, according to what you say.
which then means something could be done about it, like fixing it.

good on you, actually proving that there is a problem rather than just whining that you're a special snowflake or 'something broken' and that blah blah this or that. because that doesn't get anything changed.

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12 hours ago, taiiat said:

hey, thereygo. some sort of reliable repro, according to what you say.
which then means something could be done about it, like fixing it.

good on you, actually proving that there is a problem rather than just whining that you're a special snowflake or 'something broken' and that blah blah this or that. because that doesn't get anything changed.

To be fair I would like to whine to DE about divebomb and tornado a bit but they're both still doing what they're supposed to so there's no real need to.

But yeah I found this issue like 4 months ago, made a similar topic, going into a little more detail explaining the video, but that never got any attention so... here I am again with new found hope in the balancing changes DE is currently making. (hoping to get this fix included when they work on powers and such)

12 hours ago, (PS4)abb12355 said:

Good luck, personally I doubt a dev will read this because I made a thread with 24 Favorites, and no response from the Devs

In that case... rip me... Though I'll still use Zephyr anyway, just not against any high level grineer.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Bowjangelz said:

Thank you for figuring out how the bug works and reposting the topic. I knew something was going on there, but did not figure out exactly what. No flying...

Please notice and fix, DE. 

Don't worry, you can fly. It's just the first meter or 2 after you jump (or just before you land again). But as you can see in the video, you stand literally no chance against anything high-level with that kind of bug. Let's just hope DE notices this quickly now since I can't stand it being ignored for so long. SPREAD THE WORD EVERYONE :)

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  • 2 weeks later...
9 hours ago, Duavey said:

Well that explains some of the random damage I take with Zephyr.

Hope this gets some attention.

Well as you can see here on the forums, it's not getting a whole lot sadly. Yesterday I created a reddit account purely for reporting this issue and hoping it gets noticed more... and boy it did. It's placed at number 3 on the hot page now in less than a day. I just hope the devs notice it since that was my last option.

If you're interested in the reddit post, here it is: https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/4nsj44/bug_turbulence_hitscan_inconsistency_source_found/

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With the help of reddit I managed to find the source of the issue just now. The enemy line of fire does not move vertically when within range of turbulence. In other words you have to jump through their bullets until you are above them. Will edit OP with exact info.

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12 hours ago, zY_Spartan_Yz said:

Well as you can see here on the forums, it's not getting a whole lot sadly. Yesterday I created a reddit account purely for reporting this issue and hoping it gets noticed more... and boy it did. It's placed at number 3 on the hot page now in less than a day. I just hope the devs notice it since that was my last option.

If you're interested in the reddit post, here it is: https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/4nsj44/bug_turbulence_hitscan_inconsistency_source_found/

I hope the reddit helps too, last time I made a post on the forums about this bug, I got a warning point so I just got frustrated and nearly gave up. 

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22 hours ago, (PS4)abb12355 said:

I hope the reddit helps too, last time I made a post on the forums about this bug, I got a warning point so I just got frustrated and nearly gave up. 

I can tell you it did. It got a lot of attention, we even found out more about the issue and I even got a reply from Rebecca stating that she will look into it. No promises yet but I think we can expect a fix some time in the future. Also sorry for the late reply, when I wanted to log in yesterday the forums weren't working for me.

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3 hours ago, zY_Spartan_Yz said:

I can tell you it did. It got a lot of attention, we even found out more about the issue and I even got a reply from Rebecca stating that she will look into it. No promises yet but I think we can expect a fix some time in the future. Also sorry for the late reply, when I wanted to log in yesterday the forums weren't working for me.

I hope this week with all the Changes coming with U19.

Also, it's fine, I didn't log in yesterday either

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17 hours ago, (PS4)abb12355 said:

I hope this week with all the Changes coming with U19.

Also, it's fine, I didn't log in yesterday either

I don't think it will be with U19 since they first have to find the issue in the code and find a way to fix it. Basically we can expect a fix, just not the usual SOONtm

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4 hours ago, zY_Spartan_Yz said:

I don't think it will be with U19 since they first have to find the issue in the code and find a way to fix it. Basically we can expect a fix, just not the usual SOONtm

They fixed it in the Lunaro update hype! Check the patch notes.

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9 hours ago, (PS4)abb12355 said:

They fixed it in the Lunaro update hype! Check the patch notes.

SAY WUT? I didn't see it in the patch notes. Are you sure? I will test it out later when I have some time.

EDIT: nevermind, I was being blind. I did not expect a fix so soon. Can't wait to try out her effectiveness against grineer now :)

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