Dev Workshop Part 4: Hotfix 18.13.2 information & more!

[(PSN)toaha48]

Just now, ShardsSuperior said:

I miss Xini. :'(

What would you really miss about Draco, though?

the elevator. Every time I go up it feels like things are about to go down

[Laidain]

3 hours ago, Prinny13 said:

Why did this burnt me?

Can we get a prompt that allows us to use our melee weapons to "deflect" these grenades like QTE?

IF our abilities scales with enemies by % instead of just flat numbers then am ok otherwise give enemies the aim of these guys 

:)

Oh man,my sides hurt.Thank you for that.

Edited June 1, 2016 by Pratigious

[Cerenax]

Please address the issue of Nullifier bubbles taking an arbitrary amount of hits in order to be downed, it makes those units unfairly overpowered against low firerate weapons.

[achromos]

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

And now.... for Part 4! Dev Workshops: now officially with more parts than The Hobbit!

 

 

To continue from where we left off from Part 3, let's talk about enemy cheesiness.

 

 

Shovel in the ground on enemies: short term & long term.

 

 

In the short term there are enemies and enemy mechanics we are changing to reduce their cheesiness. These short term changes are coming in Hotfix 18.13.2 (should be tomorrow).

 

 

Enemy Plasma Grenades:

 

 

If you're like me and you have been playing a lot of Void Defense lately, it's more than likely you've had a mission failed due to one stray grenade from the enemy. These seemingly infinite-damage-scaling grenades of doom can be a death sentence, so here's what's coming:

 

 

Before enemy Plasma Grenades explode, they will live for 3 seconds after coming to a rest on the ground. Plasma Grenades can now be shot in air or when they are on the ground. When an enemy Plasma Grenade is shot and killed, it will explode and damage any enemies in range with no damage to you. A Tenno with a keen ear will be able to identify these threats and counter them with an accurate shot before it's too late.

 

 

Ballistas:

 

 

Ballistas will have telegraphing when they are winding up to fire off a round from their deadly Vulkars. An observant Tenno will be better able to identify and prioritize these threats.

 

 

Hyekka Masters: 

 

 

For now this is as simple as fixing the Hyekka Master’s Ignis dealing damage through walls.

 

 

Should you have anything else in mind, leave a comment below linking to your existing feedback thread, or simply discuss here.

 

 

Long term:

 

 

The bigger picture is the way enemy damage and EHP scales in the higher level content. We are discussing a few options at this time on the way scaling works, but ultimately we will preserve increased difficulty over time that demands a 'be careful and get out or get killed' set of stakes the longer you spend in a mission. The long term of this will demand a greater Dev Workshop as we make decisions on the topic - more to come here.

 

 

Warframe Feedback:

 

 

We've reviewed and made some changes to the following Warframe abilities. Everything is subject to change pending testing, but here are our current plans for Hotfix 18.13.2. Please note we also have a stack of fixes coming, but those are rooted in bug squashing and not principle design so aren't covered here.

 

 

Trinity: Blessing: Damage Resistance is no longer calculated based on an Average, but instead a flat value simply capped at 75% (which can be achieved via use of Strength mods). We are working on making the squad UI show who is in range with the Tenno Affinity markers, it might not be ready for 18.13.2.

 

 

Valkyr: Hysteria: Each kill reduces her Hysteria Aura by 1 meter, the aura will continue to grow but killing frequently will keep it tight around you so you can control its range.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you so much for the ballistas, and grenade and even hekka change.  Thank you so much for listening to the community, DE.  I think, at least as far as things go, I can live with a trinity change that let's the whole squad see immediately if they leave the range of the healer or if their healer leaves them.  Awesome as always! :D

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

4 hours ago, Darkwave1098 said:

Where are the fun-nullifier changes?

Looks like with all the Mag problems (as they were counters for Mag's Shield Polarize ... which now how it works, slower also than the Osprey's laying EMPs and bombs, too). -_-

[achromos]

Just now, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Looks like with all the Mag problems (as they were counters for Mag's Shield Polarize ... which now how it works, slower also than the Osprey's laying EMPs and bombs, too). -_-

Aside from bugs, I don't know what you guys are doing.  I'm dealing most damage with Mag nowadays, yea it takes a bit more work/effort and min/maxing but especially on corpus I feel like I have a advantage to a point.

[Nightange1]

Did you guys forget you didnt want trinity to simply spam blessing actively but wanted it done reactively? Which brought about her original change in the first place. Don't do this find a alternative this may seem like a simple fix but 6 months later you are going to have to face all the people saying trinity should change again. Do this right the first time don't cop out.

[FoxyKabam]

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Enemy Plasma Grenades:

 

 

If you're like me and you have been playing a lot of Void Defense lately, it's more than likely you've had a mission failed due to one stray grenade from the enemy. These seemingly infinite-damage-scaling grenades of doom can be a death sentence, so here's what's coming:

 

 

Before enemy Plasma Grenades explode, they will live for 3 seconds after coming to a rest on the ground. Plasma Grenades can now be shot in air or when they are on the ground. When an enemy Plasma Grenade is shot and killed, it will explode and damage any enemies in range with no damage to you. A Tenno with a keen ear will be able to identify these threats and counter them with an accurate shot before it's too late.

GRENADE! RUN! DUCK FOR COVER! (brave rhino jumps on the grenade to save his fello tenno)

no just shoot it, this is warframe you idiot geez (rhino dies, jack &#! forgot to cast iron skin)

 

sorry, but that change is just weird to me and it will never not be weird. I'll have to shake my head or sigh every time I see it and its just gonna be exhausting.

 

you could, you know, just cap the grenade damage objectives take

too easy? fine I'll stop, but I will say this: I feel like you guys are overthinking things, maybe take a breather

 

[achromos]

2 minutes ago, Nightange1 said:

Did you guys forget you didnt want trinity to simply spam blessing actively but wanted it done reactively? Which brought about her original change in the first place. Don't do this find a alternative this may seem like a simple fix but 6 months later you are going to have to face all the people saying trinity should change again. Do this right the first time don't cop out.

 

Hmm, well maybe give blessing a cooldown effect period on players?  Not a actual cooldown but... for instance...

If you heal someone with blessing, that person has a debuff that last's X amount of time until he can be blessed again.

 

Think that would work?  I mean, Triniy does have WoL.

Edited June 1, 2016 by achromos

[Hellmaker2004]

1 hour ago, Fifield said:

This is just nonsense.  I've literally never seen an Equinox or Nezha asked for in Recruitment chat.

 

And yet, in a world with a shortage of air, one does not poison it in a attempt to lower the demand to breath.

Edited June 1, 2016 by Hellmaker2004

[CY13ERPUNK]

+1 OP

these are the kinds of dev workshop posts that so many of us were initially excited to see

the dev workshop forums have often been considered a forgotten/abandoned concept in that they rarely ever see any kind of regular input/feedback, always being incredibly sporadic with not even a once a month consistency

sad that it took over 2 yrs to get to this point, but glad that it has finally arrived =]

[achromos]

4 hours ago, Stratego89 said:

Yep. They listened to the whining fools and ruined the PERFECT trinity change they made. It's over. You guys either need to stop listening to these people or this game is going to end up dying because of them. People are going to complain because they've become entitled and lazy and don't actually want to play your game. These people's opinions should not be listened to. I'm not going to stick around long enough to watch that happen, it's too sad to watch your favorite game die.

Welcome to a community game.  Your side isn't the only point of view that is valid as this game has a community with MANY opinions.

 

If you are going, though...  Can I have your stuff?

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

1 minute ago, achromos said:

Aside from bugs, I don't know what you guys are doing. 

Nothing, because...

HOW MANY TIMES HAS SHE BEEN NERFED ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[-CM-Emptiness]

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Enemy Plasma Grenades:

 

If you're like me and you have been playing a lot of Void Defense lately, it's more than likely you've had a mission failed due to one stray grenade from the enemy. These seemingly infinite-damage-scaling grenades of doom can be a death sentence, so here's what's coming:

Before enemy Plasma Grenades explode, they will live for 3 seconds after coming to a rest on the ground. Plasma Grenades can now be shot in air or when they are on the ground. When an enemy Plasma Grenade is shot and killed, it will explode and damage any enemies in range with no damage to you. A Tenno with a keen ear will be able to identify these threats and counter them with an accurate shot before it's too late.

May I suggest also implementing a visual aid similar to the one used in COD to warn of nearby grenades? Will assist those who don't have the luxury of headphones, or who simply do not hear it in the midst of battle. While we are talking about this, it would also be nice to have a similar function (just a notification maybe) to notify of nearby caches, since the idea is that only players with keen ears or the opportunity to wear headphones will be able to sniff these out, unless of course you know all the hiding spots :P

Long term:

 

The bigger picture is the way enemy damage and EHP scales in the higher level content. We are discussing a few options at this time on the way scaling works, but ultimately we will preserve increased difficulty over time that demands a 'be careful and get out or get killed' set of stakes the longer you spend in a mission. The long term of this will demand a greater Dev Workshop as we make decisions on the topic - more to come here.

One of our community has discussed an interesting concept of enemy-scaling, might want to look into it.

Warframe Feedback:

Trinity: Blessing: Damage Resistance is no longer calculated based on an Average, but instead a flat value simply capped at 75% (which can be achieved via use of Strength mods). We are working on making the squad UI show who is in range with the Tenno Affinity markers, it might not be ready for 18.13.2.

Since the bless DR is now capped at a fairly useful but not OP value, which now requires Str incorporated builds to achieve, it would be more balanced if the range could be moved back to unlimited, as the reason for the rework was solely due to the use of bless as a near-invulnerable support ability. Since it is now affected by all of str, range, dur and eff, it seems too limited in application especially considering the flipside relationship between Str and Eff, and Range and Dur, which caps its use in a specialized build. After all, we want players to still use Trinity and her bless; just not as an OP ability taken for granted. Also, reversing the range will resolve the issue with Archwings unable to receive damage reduction and healing in the last stage of Jordas Verdict. I know a healing AW is coming, but surely we deserve more options than that.

 

 

 

 

[Issxi]

How to fix Excalibur, Mirage, Trinity, & Valkyr:

Excalibur

Exalted Blade: MELEE ONLY

Swinging the blade DOES NOT create waves, but acts as a conventional melee weapon. Still retains mod configuration of currently equipped melee weapon.

Energy cost on enemy hit instead of energy drain. Channeling costs more energy per enemy hit but sends out waves of slash damage (like it does now) that loses damage the further it travels.

Remove the spin-attack RB and replace it with an outward slash that sends a wave forwards that widens then disperses at no energy cost. Lets face it, costing half the amount of RB but doing 1/6 the amount RB does is not worth it.

Mirage

Hall of Mirrors:

Spawns four EXACT clones (armor and all DE, don't be stingy) that mimic your every move, action, and item you currently have equipped. Clones do NO damage but shoot 'fake' projectiles causing enemies to panic, take cover, or fall back. You yourself still do damage but enemies will be 'tricked' into thinking 5 Tenno are simultaneously firing at them when in reality it is a smoke and mirrors trick giving her substantial CC directly in front of her as to not replace other Warframes CC abilities.

Sleight of Hand:

Does exactly what it does now, but has multiple casting variants much like Ivara's arrows.

Variants:

Enemies get blasted in the face on activation with Mirage's trademark confetti particles getting it in their eyes causing a temporary Blind proc based on duration mods.

Enemies get hit with a loud ear-piercing sound on activation stunning them and deafening them for a duration.

Enemies become startled by sudden noises on activation and fall back due to a small Fear proc.

Enemies get thrown back by a colorful explosion on activation dealing damage and also knocking them onto their backs.

Trinity

Blessing:

Either two things -

Have the range be effected by Range Mods.

- OR -

Retain the global healing as before BUT the further a teammate is from Trinity, the less health is received. Will still allow her to be a useful healer but give people a reason to not run off.

Damage reduction remains the way it is as of now.

Valkyr

Hysteria:

I feel like she is good right now, but dear god remove the ring. We didn't need it before and we don't now. Makes the ability look very... bad.

 

 

[ograzzt]

5 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Trinity: Blessing: Damage Resistance is no longer calculated based on an Average, but instead a flat value simply capped at 75% (which can be achieved via use of Strength mods). We are working on making the squad UI show who is in range with the Tenno Affinity markers, it might not be ready for 18.13.2.

It's another nerf to solo Trinity. 

[Stratego89]

1 minute ago, ograzzt said:

It's another nerf to solo Trinity. 

And just when they had finally gotten Blessing perfect. Figures.

[keen211]

1 hour ago, lvl999ArchNecromancerIRL said:

Please address the issue of Nullifier bubbles taking an arbitrary amount of hits in order to be downed, it makes those units unfairly overpowered against low firerate weapons.

^That^ ...Its been too long since I've used my bows on any serious run. Punchthrough working through bubbles would be nice too. 

[CrazyFisher]

Just retyr game to U14 state

Edited June 1, 2016 by CrazyFisher

[-PP-Sonicz]

I hope for near future where enemies have capped levels, while in survival or endless defense, they will still reach the level cap possible in the specific mission or tier, but they will not deal more damage but the same damage, except that their armor increases or shield increases which is a solution to not be able to be one-shotted easily or die too easily with an end-game build. While buffing frames and weapons if necessary to scale with the enemy cap, as well as to ensure the frame to survive in a end-game environment.

I also think that in the abilities section of each warframe, you could possibly show an animation for each skill-set (if narration of lotus on how to use the frame possible), to help further aid new-player experience. The best is to make many things obvious enough in the game so that new-players are able to have the grasp of understanding how to play. Though the new-player experience quest does explain unlocking the liset part, but most are stuck afterwards because they don't know where to go afterwards. Though market is obvious after unlocking it, It's still not obvious enough in a way that they'll be able to understand how to buy the blueprints.

Make tons of tutorial messages in inbox or cinematic play like second-dream, or display in a list as tutorial messages that they can easily wind up in the game; which displays how to:

• Modding [Teach them by increasing duration/power strength/range/efficiency and etc, or weapon mods, the effects on a demo-frame and weapon.] 
• Forma [Teach them what forma is, how they are used in the game and can be found.] 
• Finding real mods by scanning the type of enemies [Show them how to find the mods with complete understanding without having to rely on other players and sources] 
• Campaign mode? [Which allows players to easily identify the link of each various quests and understand more of the lore] 
• Prime gear drops [Teach them where the prime parts are achieved and possibly showing them to a forum link where prime parts are, as well as explaining rotA, rotB, RotC.] 
• In-game rules? [Show them the rules within the game, what they can do and what they can't. Direct them the link to support which they are able to seek assistance if necessary. ] 
• Syndicate [Once they hit MR 3, I suggest that before each syndicate is available to reach at the relay, cinematic message where lotus talks about the syndicates and how they have hidden medallions in the missions, and how they can use them to exchange for syndicate points in the relay.] 
• Factions [Lotus briefing through the various types of factions, for example showing nullifier "One can make you powerless", like sort of a hint to the enemy and how they can prepare themselves.]
•  Missions [Show them the different game-modes [Possible by either player hover the new type of mission in their map for the first time or in-game cinematic with lotus explaining.One which teaches them in survival, how they could extend life-support with life support bags which are dropped by enemies. Life supports which will increase the duration by another 30%./ Excavation which shows them how to gather the battery cell from a specific type of enemy, and show them that the excavator gets destroyed./ as well as other mission modes. ] 
• Simulacrum [Shows them how they are able to practice mastery rank tests before actual test and the cool-down of 24 hours before the next available chance. How they are able to discover more on the lore by scanning the targets.] 
• Raid-type missions [ Show them an overview map of the stages, what they can expect but not reveal how to play with what mods or frame (which is for the player to discover) and must show them at least hint of how to do the raid without actually telling them how it is done. Eg for the LOR raid, first stage ("These injectors must be vulnerable to intercept vay-hek's goals. Find a way to destroy them.") or similar dialogues to show it.]

Trinity's blessing buff is great. It's now (U18.13.2) at least fair and easy to play in a raid compare to before (as in u.18.13 without trinity's buff).

Hope there is a look on Mag's abilities and Excalibur's exalted blade as they are both equally a concern, as well as showing an underside of having enemy scaling problems that might impose. 

Thanks for the work as always.  Keep up with the good work. (: 

[RazrOutlaw]

I'm not sure how to feel about this Trinity change, she is taking another hit directly, trading 24%DR when solo for more%DR when in a squad (since 75% was almost unreachable with the recent changes)

My feedback on the 18.13 changes:

1.  Please revert the range nerf (It's just frustrating to be running around big tilesets trying to heal your teammates, then get blamed on because you couldn't heal them, some tilesets are huge and in some others you have to be away from your team for mission progress like Uranus Interception, also if we take into account only the healing aspect of blessing and compare it to other healing skills, Oberon's Renewal has got infinite range, and we are talking about a frame that needs a great buff in either his offensive or supportive capabilities)
2.  Trinity should always get 99% damage reduction when "X" is at 1% HP, while allies/squad/companions get either a base amount (numbers can be defined at your choice, either 50%,65%, 75% or what you feel it's balanced), current DR systems just feels like it's encouraging me to play solo, since I can't get the most out of my skills because I'm in a squad (which happened with Mesa's shooting gallery and you made a positive change about that, however I feel you made the same mistake you originally made with Mesa right here.)
3. Take the self damage feature away from Blessing (damage reduction wise, the heal is still needed in case you blow yourself up by accident), If you want to remove cheesing from the game, this is the first change you should've done, I know it's WAY easier said than done, but I trust you guys can manage a way to do it.
4. Final thoughts: if you wanted to change Trinity because you felt she was either overperforming or cheesing, I feel like just hard-nerfing Blessing wasn't the right option, sure, blessing needed changes, like the ones I mentioned above, but there's a bigger problem and it's the way Energy Vampire functions, you see, 3 out of her 4 skills benefit from building extra duration, except EV, you've done changes in the past to certain abilities that benefited from negative duration, because it messed up some of the same Warframe abilities or kits by a whole (Drain abilities, Saryn, Mag recently), my last proposal it's to make the pulse range on EV affected by duration (much like Nova's Molecular Prime & New Mag's Polarize), EV pulses now expand based on how much duration you have, casting range it's still affected by range mods, this change would promote a much more balanced build ,which is what I believe you as developers focused with almost all recent changes and fixes one of the biggest problems in the game which is the huge amount of instant energy and the spamming of this skill which contributes to spamming almost all other skills in-game (if the enemy gets killed before EV expires should work exactly as it is now).

Edited June 1, 2016 by RazrOutlaw

[Accel1]

I have a suggestion for Bombards: After you kill a Bombard, their rockets should no longer be able to follow you.

[Kinetos]

Grapple hook targeting is crazy. I've seen it hook me through solid objects, behind the attacker's back, and after making a 180 degree change in direction via bullet jump. 

[Punchedface]

20 minutes ago, KinetosImpetus said:

Grapple hook targeting is crazy. I've seen it hook me through solid objects, behind the attacker's back, and after making a 180 degree change in direction via bullet jump. 

Ah the good ol 540 no spin no scope hook. Best part is the fact that dodging only works when the hook is actually launched; animation is a horrible lie

[Gilmaesh]

Good start, here some more enemies that become problematic in sorties and others who need some tweaks :

• Corrupted Bombard : reduce the fire rate in general, the damage from the arson corrupted bombard and less accuracy from their rocket (with better FX too).
• Nullifier : ancient aura should not affect them, spawn decreased a bit maybe, less shot needed for bow / sniper, no more Artic Eximus Nullifier. You could also make speed holster innate so we could finally switch weapons and have better strategies against them.
• Napalm : less explosion radius / damage
• Scorch :  less range / fire rate
• Grineer Commander : remove the disoriented animation / or rework them 
• Enemies grapples : should not be able to catch mid-air and their accuracy need to be town down.
• Eximus energy leech : i suppose as long as ev trinity will be here you won't touch them, that's too bad... But at least add some sort of link between us and them that show there is one close and don't make them spawn in spy vault. Also less spawn in eximus sortie condition
• Sapping Osprey : maybe limite the number of mine they can release and mine should have a better FX to show they can hit you even mid air
• Mine osprey : those are not problematic damage wise but you should update the FX to make the globe glow when it's going to explode ( when the sound change) and we should be able to destroy the mines when they re on the ground.
• Corpus Tech : less damage
• Bursa (the one who shot some rockets) : less damage
• Bursa (the one who knockdown) : decrease the knockdown duration a bit
• Angstrum Comba : reduce damage or number of shots
• Venomus Eximus should leave us with 2 hp maybe
• Artic Eximus : i think their aura stack, it should not be the case.
• sorties conditions that increase damage and Sortie Boss scaling should be looked at.
• Armor and corrosive projection : well it's obvious but you need to do something about that too
• Excavators : not enemies but related to enemies damage, you should scale health / shield on excavator ( or overshield with more power cells ?), i'm tired of frost being almost mandatory.

well that's about it, i can't think of anything else for now.

But i also think you're going the wrong way with endless .Instead of infinite scaling (it can exist but with a much slower rate), you need to find a level where most of our weapons / abilities still have some effect and add some elite enemies with a few more levels than regular mobs like in the Proxy Rebellion / Shadow Debt to spice thing after some time (like after 20min/20 waves they start to appear ). If it's only the same enemies with more damage / hp / armor for 2 hours, it feels pointless.

you can also add some kind of diminishing return on our cc abilities after some time so that we can't CC them for ever, that would be the real : it's time to get the hell out.

About the previous reworks : 

Mag : need an increase of base energy, she is a real caster now. She is fragile so Polarize should give innate overshield and the augment should be change to give overshield to the team.

edit : change crush animation, make her raise both hands at the same time then crush.

Volt : Ultimate should be castable mid air like before. Less energy drain on riot shield, even 0, we are already slowed and with only secondary. The pick up speed is not coop friendly. We should be able to recast speed like saryn toxic lash (warcry / roar need that too).

Mesa : need to be able to dodge / jump with peace maker (like prowl of Ivara)

Trinity :need to be able to cast link mid air (only few abilities should have the ground cast restriction)

( there are still some abilities / mods / weapons on our side that will require some changes. )

But you're going in the right direction, keep the good work.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Gilmaesh