Status vs Crit in Melee

[Vidsurfer555]

With introduction of mods such as blood Rush and Body Count, Status chance has lost the battle yet again. Therefore the term "Crit is King" reigns supreme in the hearts of many tenno. I can attest to this because most of my builds are crit builds in a majority of my melees. Status chance builds have diminished to the point that only one melee weapon in my arsenal have a status build. And that is because that weapon is a full fledged status weapon. Now I feel that the status procs effects needs to be more developed. For example Gas and Viral procs are similar.

All in all I just want something that will make me mod my melee weapon into a status build 

[(PSN)ManOfFailures]

Crits are superior because they have a damage multiplier, most builds have elements to add damage. 

The problem with status is that status builds are made on weapons with pure elemntal damage to not waste the proc.

Made a corrosive hek? Prepare to get puncture mods more often.

[tnccs215]

47 minutes ago, (PS4)pastard323 said:

Crits are superior because they have a damage multiplier, most builds have elements to add damage. 

The problem with status is that status builds are made on weapons with pure elemntal damage to not waste the proc.

Made a corrosive hek? Prepare to get puncture mods more often.

Basically this.

Crit is rng based, granted. But you have only three states, two of which are beneficial: Non-crit, crit, red crit.

On the other hand, Status not only is rng based, it is also dependent on damage proportion-- and since IPS damage not only is almost always prevalent and has a 3x boost on status chance... You have much less control over what status effect you can get.

Not to mention how enemies have different resistances to different damage types, how status chance doesn't go over 100%, how status, with the exception of some cases (like slash, toxin and fire-- and this is not that linear even), all status effects always benefit from high rof-- which renders slow firing status weapons substantially more gimped... Etc etc. A lot of reasons really.

[hukurokuju5]

until you are fighting level 100+ eximus, crit is better than status.  or if you are running 4 cp then crit will always be better

[Gurpgork]

You say that like you think crit and status are mutually exclusive. 

Do you have any idea how much status benefits from crit? Slash procs benefit from the crit multiplier. Just think about that for a second: stacking DoT's that deal finisher damage and can be boosted by crits. If you don't have a 4 CP setup, that's the best way to disentigrate high-leveled Grineer and Corrupted with a melee weapon. 

[tnccs215]

37 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

You say that like you think crit and status are mutually exclusive. 

Do you have any idea how much status benefits from crit? Slash procs benefit from the crit multiplier. Just think about that for a second: stacking DoT's that deal finisher damage and can be boosted by crits. If you don't have a 4 CP setup, that's the best way to disentigrate high-leveled Grineer and Corrupted with a melee weapon. 

even with 4cp it is a very effective way. Each slash proc deal 35% damage 7 times. That means a total of 2.45 times non-added (as in elemental, not serration) damage. If you go 4 cp, chances are you'll take viral damage-- which not only deals very high bonus damage to flesh, it also reduces health by half for 8 seconds. that means that taking a build with status mods for viral instead of pure elemental viral might deal much more damage in the long run.

[RealPandemonium]

Why do people always compare crit and status like they are competitive?  Crit increases your damage; status lets you inflict status effects.  Apples/oranges comparison.  Some weapons have one or the other, some weapons have neither, and some have both.  

[IceColdHawk]

3 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

Why do people always compare crit and status like they are competitive?  Crit increases your damage; status lets you inflict status effects.  Apples/oranges comparison.  Some weapons have one or the other, some weapons have neither, and some have both.  

I think he merely tries to figure out when he should ever pick status over crit.

[Gurpgork]

Just now, IceColdHawk said:

I think he merely tries to figure out when he should ever pick status over crit.

But thanks to Maiming Strike and Blood Rush, you don't have to choose. 

[RealPandemonium]

Just now, IceColdHawk said:

I think he merely tries to figure out when he should ever pick status over crit.

He also says that Gas procs and Viral procs are similar.  He doesn't understand the system very well, making this attempt at feedback unfounded.  

[IceColdHawk]

Just now, Gurpgork said:

But thanks to Maiming Strike and Blood Rush, you don't have to choose. 

Well, status is still extremely strong especially on ninkondi or lesion. In fact, lesion is my melee of choice mainly because of it's high status chance and good damage.

 

[tnccs215]

51 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

Why do people always compare crit and status like they are competitive?  Crit increases your damage; status lets you inflict status effects.  Apples/oranges comparison.  Some weapons have one or the other, some weapons have neither, and some have both.  

They aren't competitive as damage providers, indeed. They are, however, competitive for mod space.

Most of the times, you simply cant have it all.

[RealPandemonium]

2 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

They aren't competitive as damage providers, indeed. They are, however, competitive for mod space.

Most of the times, you simply cant have it all.

If it has substantial-enough crit stats, use crit mods to increase damage substantially (more relevant if you use berserker or are scoring headshots with guns.)  If the weapon has a good status chance and you can apply relevant statuses with it, use the event status mods instead of elementals (make sure to grab the Electric ones from Baro when he comes around.)  Pretty clear-cut to me.  

[tnccs215]

48 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Well, status is still extremely strong especially on ninkondi or lesion. In fact, lesion is my melee of choice mainly because of it's high status chance and good damage.

 

Meh. There are times in what you said becomes easier said than done: if the weapon requires large amounts of QoL mods in order to be effective, doesnt sport the necessary fire rate to be able to ditch out utilyty status (such as corrosive) fast enough, or doesn't possess the necessary IPS distribution to be effective with a low RoF (lets be honest: Both fire and toxin are not easy to mod for, simply because the are simple elements, resulting in requiring another complex element in order for status chance to be close to 100%-- which is a double edged sword, since it also reduces the chance it is applied.-- in the end, the only great DoT worth modding for is slash.).

A good example of this is the Daikyu. Hella beautiful bow, also the one with the most status. It is also the slowest and puncture focused, which prevents build for both utility and DoT status. Not to mention how you need at least 2 RoF mods to make it as fast as other bows.

Of course, there are cases in which your are utterly right. The new Akstilleto prime, for example. Its ability to ditch out corrosive procs, coupled with the lack of necessity for mod such as ammo mutation, as well as a really good accuracy, make it better destroying High level armored targets than the aksomati, arguably the best crit high rate secondary.

The Nikana prime is another great example. I swear: Build it for crit and viral status, substitute life strike for weeping wounds, and I am almost sure it beats War on the long run.

I honestly don't know why am I even talking about this. We all are very, very familiar with this mechanics

[IceColdHawk]

8 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

The Nikana prime is another great example. I swear: Build it for crit and viral status

You don't have to mod for status if you're going for viral. You'll only need to proc it once.

Also:

8 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

in the end, the only great DoT worth modding for is slash.

My gas Lesion strongly dislikes this statement :<

And also my anti-corpus gas Akstiletto Prime

Edited June 1, 2016 by IceColdHawk

[cittran]

31 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

If it has substantial-enough crit stats, use crit mods to increase damage substantially (more relevant if you use berserker or are scoring headshots with guns.)  If the weapon has a good status chance and you can apply relevant statuses with it, use the event status mods instead of elementals (make sure to grab the Electric ones from Baro when he comes around.)  Pretty clear-cut to me.  

Last I checked, all 4 of the Tethra's Doom mods are now included in the drop tables for the Hive Sabotage missions on Eris -- you just need to make sure you find all 3 caches for a chance at them.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Hive_Sabotage

[tnccs215]

21 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

You don't have to mod for status if you're going for viral. You'll only need to proc it once.

Only if you take less than 8 econds killing an eemy. on late game, that doesnt always happen. plus, the Status is more for the slash than anything.

 

22 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

 

My gas Lesion strongly dislikes this statement :<

And also my anti-corpus gas Akstiletto Prime

fair enough, let me refrase:

Only DoT worth modding for when against armored targets is slahs :)

[Ferrari5646]

Viral procs half the maximum Health of the affected target. when the proc wears off, only the maximum health value returns, the enemy's current health doesn't magically return

 

[Ferrari5646]

Also, The current question is Status vs Crit in MELEE. Primary and Secondary weapons are not the subject in this question

And my answer to this is that it depends entirely on the type of build that the melee weapon lends itself to. If it has high crit chance (20% or higher in my opinion makes a good crit based weapon), then I make a crit build. If it has a high status chance(again, about 20% or higher, preferably 30%+), then I would build for status. If it is a combination of the two, (20% crit and 20% status), then I put my maxed blood rush on it, along with berserker and organ shatter, if it has a good crit multiplier, and I use the dual stat mods. I don't really use weeping wounds because the dual stat mods give higher status chance and additional damage, but if I were trying for a physical based weapon, then I would use it.

If the weapon doesn't lend itself to either status nor crit, then I don't really use it. I like my tipedo-crit-berserker-with-fury build. It is also a lot of personal preference. How do you like to use your melee? Do you enjoy whipping the melee around 1000 times a second with a crit berserker build? or do you prefer to inflict status effects on the enemies and take them down that way? 

[taiiat]

5 hours ago, Ferrari5646 said:

the enemy's current health doesn't magically return

yes it does. that's why you can (no longer) randomly Spray Viral Status on Enemies and Kill them without ever actually dealing any significant Damage.
because that was a huge exploit.

[crackbeard]

It doesn't matter that crit is better than status, it matters that status isn't that useful until your'e fighting enemies that you wont see unless you do the same mission for an hour+ lol. 

[RagingGrizzly]

If status had the same mechanic as crit does, when it goes over 100%.

If status your status chance goes over 100%, it should either proc 2 damage types/elements with a single shot or have the proc be more effective. (like corrosive pulling off double the armor it would before) With the addition of Weeping Wounds, it would actually be pretty cool to see it happen.

 

[Sh0ck-Wave]

7 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

But thanks to Maiming Strike and Blood Rush, you don't have to choose. 

So true, maiming strike is a required inclusion in my most loved melee's.

Now waiting for Primed Organ Shatter :)

[CY13ERPUNK]

bottom line : atm dmg is king, mostly becuz enemies scale up into huge EHP tanks and dmg is the only method of dealing with them [besides loopholes like finishers]

not only are the crit mechanics in the game exponential in that they are either too low to be worthwhile at all, or they are high enough to be the only factor that matters [ie some builds gain more dmg from modding for crits than with base dmg mods, which is bonkers] ; but status fx just dont really bring that much to the table, even arguably useful status fx than can effectively proc perma-cc on units, are often reduced to single tgt or small aoe with melee/guns so they just cannot provide the kind of battlefield advantage that huge raw dmg from crits can

IMHO we need an overhaul of the critical hit/chance/dmg/multiplier system ingame, making it more of a skill-based effect and less of an rng system [or with some weapons, just another form of base dmg by having over 100% chance, thus removing the rng and blurring the lines]

additionally we need some form of 'red-status' fx, ie double-procs or super-procs, whatev u want to call it

lastly we probably need an overhaul to the status procs themselves, in that some are pretty great atm but others need some help, and maybe even a more involved method by which to select elemental combos on weapons and/or a few more 3 or 4 part elem combos to further kill whats left of the 'rainbow' build [ie elem combos that involve 3 or all 4 of the base elem dmg types]

[RealPandemonium]

10 hours ago, cittran said:

Last I checked, all 4 of the Tethra's Doom mods are now included in the drop tables for the Hive Sabotage missions on Eris -- you just need to make sure you find all 3 caches for a chance at them.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Hive_Sabotage

Ah, cool.  Thanks for the heads-up.  Hopefully I can collect some spare electric status mods.

Edit: Looks like only the Rifle and Shotgun mods are available from there.  Baro is still necessary for the Secondary and Melee mods.  

Edited June 2, 2016 by RealPandemonium