So a MR4 in starter gear joined Sortie 1 today...

[achromos]

I'll agree that MR matters for very little, but there IS going to be a distinct difference between a MR-4 and a MR-22, isn't there?  With that said...  I really think they need a new way to gauge "Mastery"  taking into account Time-spent, Daily-Logins, and Weapons leveled to max.    I do agree that with Draco there could be a awesome MR 4, and a very, very unskilled MR-22.   However, this is unlikely (usually...) to happen.  I feel like the MR should be 8, to do sorties because at least players would have been required to level up more stuff and POSSIBLY get mods and POSSIBLY get more acquainted with the games mechanics.

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

2 minutes ago, achromos said:

I feel like the MR should be 8, to do sorties because at least players would have been required to level up more stuff and POSSIBLY get mods and POSSIBLY get more acquainted with the games mechanics.

What they really need is a % playtime indicator for a frame -- not account like MR -- because what folks want when they ask for MR++ is the experienced players. Experience only comes from playing a frame for more than 10hrs with MR21 and already maxed out mods.

[achromos]

Just now, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

What they really need is a % playtime indicator for a frame -- not account like MR -- because what folks want when they ask for MR++ is the experienced players. Experience only comes from playing a frame for more than 10hrs with MR21 and already maxed out mods.

 

True, but how does the game know that the person who is playing the frame isn't well, as smart as a doorknob?  I know it's hard to believe, I didn't until I seen it but some people just cannot learn, but they have a indispensable amount of time and a good supply of money to get those mods.

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

1 minute ago, achromos said:

True, but how does the game know that the person who is playing the frame isn't well, as smart as a doorknob?  I know it's hard to believe, I didn't until I seen it but some people just cannot learn, but they have a indispensable amount of time and a good supply of money to get those mods.

It's better than judging a player by an account bound achieve like MR (which doesn't give any idea that a frame wasn't taken to Draco in one pass!).

Someone playing a frame for 90% of their hours played won't tell a host they weren't AFKing or carried, but basic stats like missions completed say solo; and amount of kills are good indicators they're not AFKers and can arrive at least to play their role. MUCH better than trying to find competent MR18+ players.

[YasaiTsume]

Ok here we go :

The issue at hand : Low MR players are joining Sorties unprepared, simply because they could be curious, or they just wanted to have some fun and they finally reached the requirements. 

This shows a few things :

1. Newer players are slow to get decent gear for intermediate missions.

2. Newer players are jumping into missions above their level standard. 

3. No one is helping them get into the game and they are still stuck with starter gear.

So what do we do?

We need an expanded Tutorial stage. 

There is literally no reason not to at this point. Warframe has expanded far enough for newbies to be intimidated by the content. Other MMOs have training guides, newbie training areas, class masters, NPCs which provide mini quests and resources.

Warframe has none of those, players are literally thrown into the world with Lv 0 Frame and Weapons, Damaged mods, and no guidiance. 

 

I was one of the more fortunate ones who managed to find an extremely nice person while on Apollodorus years ago who decided to pick me into his Clan since he needed Clan members. 

Not so many players are fortunate, and half of them are shunned away in Region and Recruit chat when looking for Clans. 

I'll say it here : To be perfectly honest ,no one really enjoys baby sitting a newbie from scratch.

I also don't like spoon feeding newbies, so DE should either expand the Tutorial stage, or give them tools to help themselves.

 

My suggestion :

Spoiler

>Recruitable NPCs for Missions : these guys will be the newbie's squad members when they cannot find anyone to do missions with. 

Now with the Second Dream out and open, it is easier to put a face to a character instead of someone in a Rhino Warframe who just lumbers by for assistance. 

They can be Syndicate members, agents of Lotus, or even a Tenno who have awakened from the Second Dream. 

 

>Give players full ranked basic mods for Warframes

Vitality, Redirection, Steel Fiber, Stretch, Streamline, Intensify, Continuity. 

Very basic base mods for any Warframe. 

 

>Give the player one weapon of their choice per Rank when they have ranked up.

Rank 1 : they get to choose between the Regular versions of the starting weapon.

Rank 2 : they get to choose between a selection of assault rifles

Rank 3 : they get to choose between a selection of Melee weapons. 

etc etc etc, they get to pick a free weapon every rank to help them get mastery rank, also to encourage them to explore different weapon types. 

 

 

 

[Voltage]

5 hours ago, Pepperdy said:

Honestly... I don't think MR matters anymore, because I've had useless MR 21s. I'd rather help someone who is obviously new to the game than tell a MR 21 guy why you should stack frost bubbles in T4D.

The only reason MR doesn't matter is because of the way DE designed it. MR should account gear, hours played, total mob kills, mods that are R10. Just showing something you level allows people to power level way to much. What if you could play a certain mode in cod, where u could prestige every 2 games, everyone would be master prestige, some good some not. Draco wouldn't be an issue if Mr wasn't based purely off ranked gear and instead take into account what I listed above. I helped a friend and told him you can experience the game or power level. He chose power level and I said ok fine. I got him to MR 13 in 3 weeks and he didn't play a whole lot. That's sad how Mr is.

[DuskLegendary]

I agree that MR really doesn't mean all that much. I'm currently MR17 and the only thing that's changed from when I was MR12 is a number and few more mods added to my collection. I feel sorry for that MR4 guy though, he was probably just wanting to try out his very first Sortie and wanting help from the community. I doubt he'll be doing anymore Sorties anytime soon.... that is, if he can get into anymore sorties. People have a rude tendency to immediately leave upon seeing a frame or weapon they don't like, or seeing someone with too low of an MR.

Now in this case, I can understand why you were upset. It's not fun carrying people in higher tier content at all. But at the same time, I like to show new players like that what the game has to offer, so I don't generally get too flustered when things like this happen., I understand exactly what it feels like starting out, as I've only been playing roughly 3 months now.

So, my proposal? Simply raise the Sortie minimum MR requirements to 8. Alongside this, maybe we should be able to see the mod rating of whoever we're paired with, or something of the sort. Take this with a grain of salt though, I'm just brainstorming at this point. Maybe you should be able to see people's complete loadouts as well while in a lobby with them, mods and all. 

[(PSN)SupeBoss]

3 hours ago, BeeOverlord said:

I came here expecting to hear about how helpful you were to this poor guy.

 

Instead I listen about people reveling in the suffering of new players for  no damn reason.

Imagine for a second. I'm a new player. Warframe has a great community, so I take on a sortie, hoping that the great community will help  and understand.

The players stand and watch while I die.

 

Horribly disappointed in you all.

-Bee

a new player should see the LEVEL 80-100 condition and know better. They shouldn't go in expecting to be carried by everyone else. That can be done beforehand in premade groups or chat.

If they say that they want help - fine. If they go in EXPECTING to not contribute to the team and die (had several lower MR's equip Undying Will), then that's a problem.

Edited June 3, 2016 by (PS4)SupeBoss

[KnaveOfSwords]

4 hours ago, Hesyol said:

Lol yeah, it's better to solo all spy missions really

This.  Spy missions offer the least benefit to bringing along other players, and doing anything other than solo or grouping with people you know and trust leaves you open to stupidity and trolling in a way that most other missions don't.

[Voltage]

5 minutes ago, KnaveOfSwords said:

This.  Spy missions offer the least benefit to bringing along other players, and doing anything other than solo or grouping with people you know and trust leaves you open to stupidity and trolling in a way that most other missions don't.

and rescue

[DxAdder]

Or Perhaps NOT PUG it ?

 

[SharkPot]

Solution use Conclave rating over MR for sortie's. Put it low enough so that people can go in with any weapon, But not that low that a MR 4 player who most probably has no required mods and all on his gear. This should make him realize that he is under geared. For example a Mk-1 Braton and Lato can do T4 40+ mins/waves, But to do that you need the forma and the mods for it. Thus this would encourage new players to try out new weapons/frames but also they can try to maximize a weapon themselves and also try to get the mods as well.

The reason MR shouldn't dictate which mission should be allowed to player is MR is not skill but time spent at Draco these days. I have a clan mate he is MR 4 uses Dread and Loki and can solo T4 40 min + no problem. The only reason he never leveled up is because he likes number 4 and there is no MR 44. And he has played for more than 900 hours.

When I was a newb it took me about 10 months to reach MR 6,6 months to get my first ever hornet strike and about 5 months for my serration to drop as my network issues at my college prevented any kind of multiplayer interaction. I did the events myself failed them and did not complete them and I learnt how to do everything in Warframe

Honestly these days all you see from newbie's is plat plez for my syndana and gift me frames plz. They don't care about mods or anything. And if anybody is too ungrateful I just leave him for the sharks in sorties.You people would be surprised about how many people actually know how to read stats and mod stuff.

Edited June 3, 2016 by SharkPot
Sorry for getting a bit sidetracked

[Dizzle22]

Maybe MR doesn't matter..... after a certain point. Player skill aside, a MR 4 player is probably going to have crap gear and will not be able to help in a Sortie, and that is the OP's entire point. Now, there may be special cases where a low MR player with the right frame that knows what they are doing and/or is guided can help though...

My friend (MR12) and I (MR20) brought his GF (MR5) to a sortie last week to get her some quick credits for something. She was out right admitting that she could do zero damage to anything, and we've even given her some stuff. Luckily she was playing Nyx prime, so I told her to not worry about it and just focus on CC with Chaos as that scales indefinitely. She struggled, as we all did, on an Eximus draining BS mission, but otherwise she was at least able to contribute with CC. 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Easy solution. To join a Sortie players must have gear that equals a high Conclave total. These points will be from the following. The warframe level, the weapon levels, the sentinel or kubrow AND CRUCIALLY, the mods and amount of forma in ALL of their gear. This points total in order to join a mission would be fairly high and will completely block out those who are not ready to attempt such missions. FIXED.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Zilchy

[(PSN)robotwars7]

5 hours ago, BeeOverlord said:

I came here expecting to hear about how helpful you were to this poor guy.

 

Instead I listen about people reveling in the suffering of new players for  no damn reason.

Imagine for a second. I'm a new player. Warframe has a great community, so I take on a sortie, hoping that the great community will help  and understand.

The players stand and watch while I die.

 

Horribly disappointed in you all.

-Bee

thing is, different people have different levels of patience when it comes to carrying random newbies: some are like monks, while other like me have patience that burns faster than Black Powder. and as others have said, they really should read what level the missions are, as well as the modifiers. they shouldn't go in expecting other s to just carry them, that's simply abusing and taking advantage of our good community.

personally I think there should be a low MR restriction on events too. when I was doing the last part of the Proxy weekend we just had, I was matched with an MR2, and the only weapon he had was level 29 Fangs. unsurprisingly he was going down just about every 5 seconds but eventually decided to leave. there are jkust some places where the newer players shouldn't be as they become a burden on the rest of us.

[Waspyeh]

15 hours ago, CrimsonDalekanium said:

I do what DW described above, but I do not leave, I merely step back for a couple minutes and watch them get steamrolled. I only even do this whenever the players get vocally overconfident in the chat (or start questioning my build without reason).

same :)

[Cryostasisprotoss]

5 hours ago, BeeOverlord said:

I came here expecting to hear about how helpful you were to this poor guy.

 

Instead I listen about people reveling in the suffering of new players for  no damn reason.

Imagine for a second. I'm a new player. Warframe has a great community, so I take on a sortie, hoping that the great community will help  and understand.

The players stand and watch while I die.

 

Horribly disappointed in you all.

-Bee

I help them at least for one mission, however I can understand the frustration that the players here has, I also kind of frustrated but I can manage it. I talk to the MR 4 or one that have starter gear that he shouldn't be here and that I would help him just for that mission if we manage to complete the mission, I revive him as I usually do in every mission I take in the game. I am a pug warrior I play like this all the time but in a sortie is different because even if its not that hard it is still hard enough for failure if people don't do or don't have at least appropriate gear. At least I don't know a normal paris with at least some crit mods in it.

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

5 hours ago, BeeOverlord said:

I came here expecting to hear about how helpful you were to this poor guy.

 

Instead I listen about people reveling in the suffering of new players for  no damn reason.

Imagine for a second. I'm a new player. Warframe has a great community, so I take on a sortie, hoping that the great community will help  and understand.

The players stand and watch while I die.

 

Horribly disappointed in you all.

-Bee

Help you we will, Carry you we will not....

[Nijyumensou]

I see newbies in random sorties, I leave. Problem solved. Time is platinum. Though, I have yet join a sorties with low MR recently. Maybe it is time to introduce tier Sortie (prize will differ in term of difficulty) -easy MR 2-4 -normal MR 5-11 -hard 12+(since all weapons are unlock from this point on) along with the new token system.

[Cryostasisprotoss]

Just now, Nijyumensou said:

I see newbies in random sorties, I leave. Problem solved. Time is platinum. Though, I have yet join a sorties with low MR recently. Maybe it is time to introduce tier Sortie (prize will differ in term of difficulty) -easy MR 2-4 -normal MR 5-11 -hard 12+(since all weapons are unlock from this point on) along with the new token system.

Yeah I don't see newbies that often either but I still find the at least in the first mission of the sortie. 

I could see that work out the tier sortie but isn't that going against its purpose that is end game content for veterans? Well no much end game but that is the idea for sorties and the token system would be nice but I have the feeling that it will take some time until DE finally do it because they have other work at hand like enemy scaling or damage 3.0 or starchart 3.0.

[HEVCaliber]

Why exactly do you mention the "MR4" part? This isn't warcraft. A good MR4 player has access to hek and galatine and can pull his weight. And if the player is useless, it doesn't matter if he's MR4004. Grinding to MR22 isn't enough to make you a "good player".

[FrozenArtice]

18 hours ago, Magneu said:

End screen was 26% damage taken...0% damage dealt, zero kills. Downed (and rezzed) three times. To be frank, contributed absolutely nothing to the mission, and was a complete liability.

Remind me again why the limit is only MR4 instead of something like MR6-8?

And yes, I know there are plenty of higher MR players who are terrible at the game, and plenty of lower MR players who are good at the game (just don't have sortie-worthy gear). A large majority of lower MR players simply aren't going to have the gear to contribute at sortie levels.

I mean....If they can get the tonkor...anybody can contribute, especially since mastery 5 is ez pz to reach. I've had stuff like that happen in my sorties as well, but stuff happens even to groups with super decked people. Not everyone can be a god but That's the fun in doing sorties like Kela De Thaym with her new Rathuum tileset, I mean unless you have Limbo, then its just a matter of waiting for 3 minutes while she missile volleys you.....

[Nijyumensou]

9 minutes ago, Cryostasisprotoss said:

Yeah I don't see newbies that often either but I still find the at least in the first mission of the sortie. 

I could see that work out the tier sortie but isn't that going against its purpose that is end game content for veterans? Well no much end game but that is the idea for sorties and the token system would be nice but I have the feeling that it will take some time until DE finally do it because they have other work at hand like enemy scaling or damage 3.0 or starchart 3.0.

Token system is almost 90% confirm to come(it mentioned in some Devstreams, you can check on thread that was talking about that). Scaling is going to take even longer time compare to the next "frame rework".

[(XBOX)Beck117]

5 hours ago, BeeOverlord said:

I came here expecting to hear about how helpful you were to this poor guy.

 

Instead I listen about people reveling in the suffering of new players for  no damn reason.

Imagine for a second. I'm a new player. Warframe has a great community, so I take on a sortie, hoping that the great community will help  and understand.

The players stand and watch while I die.

 

Horribly disappointed in you all.

-Bee

You said it yourself a new player trying to do the end game content, they shouldn't attempt something if they're not near ready for it (Especially end game).

[Cryostasisprotoss]

4 minutes ago, Nijyumensou said:

Token system is almost 90% confirm to come(it mentioned in some Devstreams, you can check on thread that was talking about that). Scaling is going to take even longer time compare to the next "frame rework".

They are supposedly working on enemy scaling for next dev workshop so we may see it soon that everyone is expecting. And yeah I have seen the devstrems and token system would be a nice addition to the game.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Cryostasisprotoss