Taxis should not be a thing.

[(PSN)HarigeVINCE]

35 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

Kindly remove the names from the picture. Before one of the moderators does... There are rules against that, you know.

I beg to differ. He would not be MR0, most likely. But If you go there with a Nyx level 0... Why are you surprised and all annoyed?

Not to mention, if you went there to level, you should be thankful, more kills to you. :-)

But seriously, I can't get people who complain about taxi and level stuff on Draco from 0.

Do you really think that finding someone MR0 on Draco proves  something? You get all sorts of things when playing a public match. From someone obliterating everything in sight, to someone voting to continue and then extracting in the last second, that starts a wave or last second extractions leaving you alone or with just another guy on wave 4 of  that interception.

Your proposition of removing the option of a taxi is akin to proposition or banning kitchen knives longer then 15 centimeters. Just because there are people who used them to murder other people.

Please don't insult the player base with viewing them as immature children that should not be given dessert before they eat all their veggies. This is not a kindergarten, this is more like an all you can eat buffet. If you want to pace yourself, you can do it. Like I did, not going past Jupiter for a long time. And then having to go through a planet and a half worth of nodes to get to the ''Proxi Rebellion'' alert. Solo as the chat just refused to work for me that day, and I could not even get a teammate, forget a taxi. It was not that fun, I can tell you.

 

And no, there won't be more people on those rarely used nodes then now if you remove taxi option. People still would unlock the node to never go there again for anything other then an alert. Or are you suggesting to force people to play those missions? Just rewards won't do, if the missions are not enjoyable. That orokin moon spy mission that I did once by the skin of my teeth to unlock it and failed once to the ''no kills for 15 min = auto fail'' timer can attest to that. I would not go there anymore no matter what they will put there as a reward. As failing is not what I find fun, strangely enough.

 

In one of the recent devstreams Steve told us that after the stream he will go, open the star map and cry. Now we just have to wait till that map will be implemented to see if we will also open it and cry. And if so, how much exactly will we cry?

 

First of all, I'm playing this game for years, I can handle going in with an unranked Nyx, and so do a lot of other veterans.

Second of all, I'm not insulting anyone, I'm sorry you take it personal but you don't have to get all salty now. Look, everyone begins this game as a 'newbie', inclusing myself! It's not offensive, it's a fact. My point is that new players shouldn't be playing those missions until they're ready for it.

Like I said in another thread, to make a point that everyone gets: you can't start a new game on pokemon and expect to own the elite 4 right off the bat. It's called game progression, it's normal that certain content is locked until you reach a certain point in the game. With warframe, beginners can just bypass this and start boosting.

This is not a good thing, for ANY game.

[Flirk2]

3 hours ago, (PS4)HarigeVINCE said:

 

Your point is not that hard to get. What I don't understand is why do you insist on ignoring my arguments against it?

You think that forcing everyone to go through the star map node to node will somehow make them ''git gud''. No it won't. Those mods that you are talking about have a drop chance of next to none more often then not. Or they are put into rotation C. That you can't get to solo without those mods. There is a reason I didn't play anything but exterminations for a long time.

I hear life strike, for example, drops on dark sectors. I hear it from the wiki, from clan mates, from other people. But in my 1400+ hours of playing I had 2 life strikes drop. From transmutation. Not a single one from a dark sector.

My first split chamber was from transmutation. Only then I started to get them from Triton on regular bases. And so on and so forth.

I like having options, you see. And don't like being forced to do something. That's why I feel the current system is better. It was even better then it is before bursa started to appear on Venus...

Again, I reiterate, if someone is going for Draco when he is MR0, he likely doesn't find progressing through the map normally entertaining enough. There could be thousands of reasons for that. But I don't like it when people assume that if there is an option to ''fast travel'', everyone will use and abuse it, so you have to disable that to give a ''challenge''. I would much rather have the option and not use it, than not have the option in the first place. I want to think that majority of this game's player base is mature enough to know how to pace themselves to get a maximum amount of fun out of the game.

I don't think I can make my view on this issue clearer. If it works, don't touch it. Like that Kela fight that made going through the map normally aggravating to impossible. Because some people wanted a challenge from a planet that starts with level 16-18 missions...

Edited June 8, 2016 by Flirk2

[Cosmic_Elf]

I think they should make it that they have to have completed all the rest of the planets and their nodes before doing Draco etc... Draco is usually an end game farm , if you wish to level things up in a rush. When I was a new player if found much more fun working my way up through the planets, and i learned a lot.

[pikaseechu]

I think people forget that Spy missions also grant a butt load of EXP on their own. I've leveled up so many weapons this way before I unlocked Draco. Alot of people that make the trek through the star chart don't always unlock all the nodes either; getting Taxi'd to certain nodes makes sense. Completing an alert should not unlock the regular node however.

[(PSN)HarigeVINCE]

3 hours ago, Cosmic_Elf said:

I think they should make it that they have to have completed all the rest of the planets and their nodes before doing Draco etc... Draco is usually an end game farm , if you wish to level things up in a rush. When I was a new player if found much more fun working my way up through the planets, and i learned a lot.

Exactly, I still have some leftover frames to level, and bc I maxed my Nyx Prime by playing I now use draco to get rid of regular Nyx. But a beginner shouldn't do draco to boost imo. We're talking about MR0 with mk1 weapons of level 8 btw, that was on the picture I had to delete.

 

7 hours ago, Flirk2 said:

 

Let's just agree to disagree then. The devs can do whatever they want after all, we're just brainstorming here anyway.

[JalakBali]

22 hours ago, (PS4)HarigeVINCE said:

You talk about DLC, this is irrelevant, the noobs can ulock all nodes.

And you talk like the game is impossible without taxi, like wth are you even talking about? Why didn't I and thousands of others who never used a taxi quit then?

I'm not assuming the starting nodes will literally be full of players, but there will at least be more activity!

New players aren't 'locked out', people who are in favor of taxi's just don't get what game progression is imo. The beginner nodes are meaningfull for beginners, because the content will be a constant challenge as the enemy level rises along with yours. And you get mods/resources/ credits while you 'git gud', so you can buy and make new stuff.

Noobs CAN'T unlock all nodes. That's why they're noobs. And yes, this is exactly like DLCs because new players would have to play by themselves while vets would play in their favorite spots. Why didn't you quit when you didn't have to rely on taxi? Maybe because you trudged through the lackluster tutorial and progression direction in this game and managed to figure it out by yourself. Most of us who are over rank 20 did. Hoping noobs would do that is not healthy for the game. Because there's no way for them to know they're supposed to do that other than kind souls telling them.

Sure, the first planet is meaningful for newbies since it teaches them the basic missions. But you're underestimating how vague the progression direction of this game beyond the first planet. There's already a pretty high cliff to climb to 'git gud' mid-game when you're required to have the right mods and frames and how to play them. This is forcing noobs to face the cliff immediately, with no other option.

 

22 hours ago, (PS4)HarigeVINCE said:

And helping noobs with low level content is not the same as taking them to high level content to boost. In low level they can kill some enemies for themselves, they get the mission rewards, unlock the nodes,... If you take them to Draco asap they don't know what's going on on their screen, can't kill anyone, learn nothing and just get affinity and resources for doing nothing.

This way they can be a mastery rank 8 in a week and still be a noob, this is not how game progression should work.

Nobody would bother that much to help noobs and let them kill enemies, plinking away at their health as you just sat back and watch patiently. Sure, some of us probably did, for friends. But heck if you think we're the majority. Yes, it's a bad idea to take them to Draco and boost their level before they know how to properly play the game. But this is on the guy taking the noob to Draco. You forgot that in order for them to reach Draco, they needed someone else who already had it open, not to mention they had to open up the planet to reach it there again by themselves. If encountering noobs while Draco-ing is bothering you that much, you have options: play something else, like Stephano or Hieracon, because you're a high ranking vet that had all the nodes open to you. Or the most obvious option: don't play Public. The amount of noob-ness you find in your game is a choice. And the choice is yours.

 

Which comes back to my original point: what's the point of locking them out of these nodes for NO BENEFIT WHATSOEVER. Terrible players playing in Draco is only a bother to me only if I chose to play Public so if I play Public I'm ready to encounter terrible players. Also, locking nodes by not allowing taxi will also not stop terrible players from being terrible.

15 hours ago, (PS4)HarigeVINCE said:

Ok I just HAD to share this with you guys to prove my point. This was literally my first mission of the day, Ceres - Draco, to level up my Nyx.

[ insert MR0 player with mk1 weapons on Draco here ] (had to remove the names apparently)

As you can see, that other player was mastery rank 0 with mk1 weapons... On Draco.. Without taxi this wouldn't be possible. He's probably there to rank up too, just like me, but my point is that he probably just downloaded the game today and he's already on Draco, this kid has no idea what he's doing, and doesn't even have mods to put on his stuff yet! He just goes down all the time.. He should be doing Mercury, Venus, Earth,.. Get used to the game, get some basic vitality and redirection mods and stuff like that, fight enemies of his own level,...

You have the option not to play with him.

And sure, let's brainstorm for a better star chart. We want the same thing: clear progression for newbies so they would earn their progress. We just differ in whether taxi should be allowed or disallowed. My position is still that that option should always be allowed because it does not affect me personally.

15 hours ago, (PS4)HarigeVINCE said:

This isn't the way the game is supposed to be played, period.

According to you. Not according to the newbies who wanted the taxi. And you're trying to force your values on them, when whether they could or could not taxi has no bearing on how you play this game.

[TARINunit9]

I agree that new players should not just ask for taxis to all the boss nodes. I do not agree that players should never ask for taxis ever. I see no harm in getting taxi'd to an alert on a planet you won't unlock for another 6 hours of play time, just to get an Aura you really need

[viperveteran]

On 05/06/2016 at 2:20 AM, marelooke said:

... did not unlock the node for the player getting taxid.

This gets my vote...

I personally have no problem with taxis but if you want to fix something that isn't really broken this change would be the most that I would accept.

Edited June 9, 2016 by viperveteran

[MagPrime]

When did taxis unlock the node?  IIRC, that was changed months ago. 

Did DE revert that change?

[Datsher]

17 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

When did taxis unlock the node?  IIRC, that was changed months ago. 

Did DE revert that change?

Pretty sure it still is that way.

[MagPrime]

37 minutes ago, Skycook3y said:

Pretty sure it still is that way.

Same; I've been taxi'ing a newblette about and they said they can't access the nodes we've been to.

[Destrab]

It's a direct violation of the "reward for effort" sentiment. I know warframe doesn't cater to this very well, it's starting to make the attempt. I don't have an answer to the fact that a lot of newer players will have to play alone for a large chunk of the early game but maybe that is for the best. Warframe does need to cater to early game a lot more, they're trying to conjure endgame from nowhere at the moment. Once U19 is over maybe they'll turn their eyes to the start line but I guess it's on us as longer-time-players to bring it up on the forums frequently. Still. The fact that newer players aren't catered to shouldn't give them an excuse to skip to higher-tier content that they aren't strictly ready for. But then again, Warframe doesn't reward very well for progression. So I suppose the game and the players will have to meet in a middle ground of development to flourish.

[BeastKing9]

1. "if you want the good stuff you have to work for it." that would be true if you could just buy the gun with real money, getting the appropriate MR is the only thing. so why not?

2. basic mods literally drop everywhere. its not hard to get basic mods at all whether you taxi a lot or do nothing but void from MR 2+, thats what my cousin did on ps4 and he ended up not only with basic mods but with rare mods a lot faster than i did.

3. no node on the map should be something to work towards other than assassination missions and certain archwing missions, which drop frame parts and archwing parts. the exp differences is not great enough for any of them to be considered a "reward" personally i have never used draco(shocker!) to level and honestly this is the first time ive heard of this sechura node. when i need credits i just do some void.

4. "skipping content"- id consider taxi'ing skipping content if each node was story related or something. they are not thus skipping 1-3 exterminate on mercury to do earth or mars missions instead just isn't a big deal nor game breaking to me. let people progress as fast or slow as they want.

5. people get burnt out because this game has a very repetitive nature, not because they can do the missions they bleeping want. this game is to be played with friends or in moderation between a cycle of other games.

 

[Shockwave-]

On 6/4/2016 at 9:29 AM, Flirk2 said:

You would be right if:

1. Nitain was not a thing. Without all the planets and nodes unlocked, getting that will be a lot slower. And it seems to me that almost everything will require nitain soon.

2. Alerts for catalyst and reactors were more frequent. As the new player will probably miss 4 or 5 of them while trying to unlock all the nodes without a taxi. While you can get a frame quite far without a reactor, you have to put a catalyst on a weapon to have a chance against those level 30 opponents. Unless you are using a Tonkor, that is.

3. Let's assume that the new player found out about dark sectors somehow. Sechura on Pluto gives only 2 times more then Coba on Earth. How exactly will a taxi to Sechura or Seimeni break the game for someone? By giving them a chance to do 1 mission (where they most likely will need a teammate with a descent weapon) instead of 2 (that they could solo with anything) for the same amount of credits? I hope you don't suggest to get credits doing normal missions. I remember clearly how many crossfires on Mars it took for me to get a Carrier... Not that I complain, but I wish I knew then that there were dark sectors on Earth and how they work...

4. Those who want to get through the star chart by themselves have that option. If someone chooses to get taxied everywhere, he most likely doesn't find progressing through the map normally entertaining enough. Locking him out of the taxi option would not improve his experience with the game.

 

actually he's still right.

 

1) It's pretty easy to get taxied to nitain alerts as well as you need them, as well as all the other alerts. Not being able to taxi would mean you'd want to open up all the sectors in case there is an alert there.

2). Same as above.

3) yes doubling the credit income speed is quite a boost. There is a reason that we don't all have double credit boosters for free all the time.

4) Those who want to play the game without getting throught the star chart are a problem. There is no reason why a game can't be a little bit gated in that you have to work your way though to open up planets. Keep in mind people could still help you with boss fights and such, they just couldn't instantly taxi you to places like draco.

 

THe only real problem is wanting to play with firends who might play more often than you. In this case it may be enough to limit taxiing to only planets that people have the nav segment for but not the actual sector unlocked, AND if you are taxied, it doesn't unlock the sector when completing it (ie you can't unlock a secotr with no adjacent unlocked sector). so if you are taxied you always have to be taxied.

[(PSN)ZammnZaddy]

 Why are people so focused on hindering how others enjoy the game? Seriously do people really have so very little of control in their own life that they want to control the fun for newer players in a video game? 

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

4 hours ago, (PS4)GHOSTBEAST1000 said:

 Why are people so focused on hindering how others enjoy the game? Seriously do people really have so very little of control in their own life that they want to control the fun for newer players in a video game? 

You shouldn't make assumptions or generalizations, it raises your cholesterol. 

Edited June 10, 2016 by (PS4)B0XMAN517

[MagPrime]

On 6/9/2016 at 0:38 PM, Shockwave- said:

-snip-

THe only real problem is wanting to play with firends who might play more often than you. In this case it may be enough to limit taxiing to only planets that people have the nav segment for but not the actual sector unlocked, AND if you are taxied, it doesn't unlock the sector when completing it (ie you can't unlock a secotr with no adjacent unlocked sector). so if you are taxied you always have to be taxied.

Mind testing this with me?  Like I've mentioned before, I'm pretty sure DE has already made it so that taxi'ing does not unlock a node.  I asked the new player that I've taxi'd to alerts and they said those nodes are not unlocked, but I'd like to make certain.

 

[Educated_Beast]

I avoided this thread for awhile because I do not have a strong opinion on the matter.  However, the OP brings up some excellent points.  The strongest being is that playing the star chart is how you experiment.  Sure you can read websites that tell you exactly how to mod a frame, but you didn't really figure that out yourself so you really can't understand how to alter things in different situations.  

 

I'm an older gamer, I actually enjoyed unlocking the nodes just like I like to play each quest solo.  I've never needed a taxi but I have helped others get certain alerts.  

 

It seems to me the best solution is to allow taxi, but not unlock the node.  I've come to this conclusion based on the high amount of unskilled players in pub sorties.  Constantly bringing useless auras, bad gear, etc.  I think a requirement for sorties should be to have the entire star chart unlocked.  

 

I also feel the star chart is to large but that's another issue.  

[Educated_Beast]

2 hours ago, Noamuth said:

Mind testing this with me?  Like I've mentioned before, I'm pretty sure DE has already made it so that taxi'ing does not unlock a node.  I asked the new player that I've taxi'd to alerts and they said those nodes are not unlocked, but I'd like to make certain.

 

I do not think it works if it is an alert but it does unlock if it's the regular mission.  However, I've never needed a taxi and my star charts been unlocked for over a year and a half now. Not 100% certain.  

[MagPrime]

4 minutes ago, Educated_Beast said:

I do not think it works if it is an alert but it does unlock if it's the regular mission.  However, I've never needed a taxi and my star charts been unlocked for over a year and a half now. Not 100% certain.  

Mine's been unlocked for about that long as well.  Let me check with the newbie and see if the normal mission nodes have been unlocked for them.

[(PSN)VariantX7]

I'd say taxing becomes much less of an issue if we didn't have so many redundant nodes in the first place. Why do we need multiples of the same mission type on a planet? They offer nothing beyond existing as mastery exp. It's needless busywork as it is right now. That's contributing to why the solar map is a desert, you're just spreading the few people who are still on the solar map out and thinning the herd. 

[Shockwave-]

1 hour ago, (PS4)VariantX7 said:

I'd say taxing becomes much less of an issue if we didn't have so many redundant nodes in the first place. Why do we need multiples of the same mission type on a planet? They offer nothing beyond existing as mastery exp. It's needless busywork as it is right now. That's contributing to why the solar map is a desert, you're just spreading the few people who are still on the solar map out and thinning the herd. 

I think of it this way. Once you have unlocked the star chart you should be MR X, and you should have played 20 of each mission type. That's "enough" so you know what you're doing. You can replace 20 with whatever. So the redundant mission nodes are to make sure you've played enough (although if there are 2 survivals on mercury one should unlock at 5 and the other at 20... just so you know what it is like to go 20 on that level planet).

Then when you have unlocked the star chart you will be experienced at each mission type.