How to nerf melee weapons for a bit

[(XBOX)Twinna25]

Make it so that you can only use your melee weapon when Naramon's buff is active, or it gets removed. Also, why nerf it? Zenurik has near infinite energy, Vazarin has healing and insta-res. Just buff unairu and Madurai...

[Slaviar]

Naramon is indeed overpowered, cheesy and boring as F***. Problem is melee is basically useless for everyone but Inaros but even he falls off versus nullifiers. So, severly overpowered with severly underpowered... I'd say it evens out

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

Here, let me provide an example. Bear in mind what I said before: that any frame can achieve these same results with any melee weapon. This isn't the run I described earlier, it actually took three hits to kill Vor this time. In the run I described earlier, I was mid-swing when he spawned right in front of me, and he died under my hammer before I even knew he was there. I used Bladestorm three or four times in 40 minutes on this run. Eventually started using Teleport because I got bored, but it reduced my kill density. So did Bladestorm, actually.

Spoiler

https://youtu.be/HAwQhRlSaxg

 

It went on like that for around 40 minutes. I only extracted out of boredom. Forgive the poor video quality. PS4 capture kinda sucks, especially with online games.

Edited June 8, 2016 by (PS4)BlitzKeir

[Weissager]

Only those who are used to their routine of farming in stealth seem offended and overprotective. Let's keep it that way, so Warframe revolves around one passive and a weapon, eh?

Edited June 8, 2016 by Weissager

[Heliopata]

1 hour ago, Dragazer said:

Sure but what if you want to melee your enemies GG WP, so much for "Sword Alone"

"Bombards and napalms are ridiculous now and even before naramon existence." which further proves my point that Naramon is important to even having a chance of surviving in melee range.

Invis doesn't make everything a cake walk suddenly when you have all those cheese enemies I mentioned

Exactly, for sword alone naramon it's fine (Kinda), but not for quick melee. Which is what i said. 

Also you speak like there's no way to melee only except for naramon. 

[IceColdHawk]

Just now, (PS4)BlitzKeir said:

Here, let me provide an example. Bear in mind what I said before: that any frame can achieve these same results with any melee weapon. This isn't the run I described earlier, it actually took three hits to kill Vor this time. In the run I described earlier, I was mid-swing when he spawned right in front of me, and he died under my hammber before I even knew he was there. I used Bladestorm three or four times in 40 minutes on this run. Eventually started using Teleport because I got bored, but it reduced my kill density. So did Bladestorm, actually.

  Hide contents

https://youtu.be/HAwQhRlSaxg

 

It went on like that for around 40 minutes. I only extracted out of boredom. Forgive the poor video quality. PS4 capture kinda sucks, especially with online games.

So you're showcasing how strong naramons invis is on a frame who can be permanently invisible on his own? Nice.

Anyway, try that in a t4 def with the bombards shooting around like mad men and tell me your results again.

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

3 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

So you're showcasing how strong naramons invis is on a frame who can be permanently invisible on his own? Nice.

Anyway, try that in a t4 def with the bombards shooting around like mad men and tell me your results again.

Check the end of the previous page for my breakdown of why Naramon is broken. I already did. That Ash build is just something I slapped together to test Naramon, before I realized the build is irrelevant. He could do the same thing unranked, and never cast a single power. As I said before, I did the same thing with Banshee and a Prisma Skana.

Which is my entire point. Naramon eliminates threat completely and permanently, regardless of weapon or frame, and makes all strategy pointless.

Edited June 8, 2016 by (PS4)BlitzKeir

[Dragazer]

4 minutes ago, Heliopata said:

Exactly, for sword alone naramon it's fine (Kinda), but not for quick melee. Which is what i said. 

Also you speak like there's no way to melee only except for naramon. 

It's either you melee with some insane damage reduction or a cloaking effect or you absolutely have no chance at surviving at all in melee range with the multitude of cheese enemies we have that I mentioned b4

Edited June 8, 2016 by Dragazer

[Dragazer]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)BlitzKeir said:

Check the end of the previous page for my breakdown of why Naramon is broken. I already did. That Ash build is just something I slapped together to test Naramon, before I realized the build is irrelevant. He could do the same thing unranked, and never cast a single power. As I said before, I did the same thing with Banshee and a Prisma Skana.

Which is my entire point. Naramon eliminates threat completely and permanently, regardless of weapon or frame, and makes all strategy pointless.

Don't ignore his main point, he asked you to try that same thing solo in a t4 defence 

Edited June 8, 2016 by Dragazer

[clemza]

2 hours ago, Weidro said:

whats with ppl who dont use naramon ?

They are probably tired of people playing lonely in public games :(

[IceColdHawk]

On 8.6.2016 at 5:08 PM, (PS4)BlitzKeir said:

Which is my entire point. Naramon eliminates threat completely and permanently, regardless of weapon or frame, and makes all strategy pointless.

Which threat? Do you mean, the stunlocked threat? Or the threat tickling at my unkillable warrior? No wait, probably the threat that gets oneshot by me and any weapons!

Please

There is no "threat" in warframe. Once you're done, geared and grinded up, you're gonna be OP. No matter what. Be it me and my ignis chroma or be it a frost who keeps the pod and the mates safe and chilled. Or just someone who's doing a solo survival in invis (since he farmed his *** off for that pretty shadow step). I don't even want to mention how frames with naramon invis in solo surf are nothing against ivara solo surf.

But does that mean they are op everywhere? Does that mean they trivialize my game like blind mirage did? No and Nope. Naramon is currently one of 2 good focus schools. While the others are either complete  or simply unnecessary to grind for. Now guess what, should we make those 2 schools equally useless to grind for or should we bring up the other schools in order to compete?

On 8.6.2016 at 5:10 PM, Dragazer said:

Don't ignore the main point, he asked you to try that same thing solo in a t4 defence 

It doesn't necessarily have to be solo. Bombards will shoot at your mates, at your globe, at walls, whatever. And they will hit you. And they will hurt you.

Edited June 13, 2016 by IceColdHawk

[NightElve]

2 hours ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

Melee doesn't need a nerf. Naramon needs a nerf.

and here comes the nerf, players Lol! take it as it is or find something else to do, if it ain't broken no need for nerfs, it's really common for high MR players asking for nerfs, i understand they are bored with the game and are seeking challenges. a request to DE let them send you a list and nerf all the equipments they want nerfed and let us play the game the way DE designed it. I like Naramon (#Nerfyourownequipments)

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

1 minute ago, Dragazer said:

Don't ignore his main point, he asked you to try that same thing solo in a t4 defence 

If you're suggesting that I might have to actually use some form of CC, then you may be right. But then again, enemies don't fire until they're within a certain range of the pod, and I can one-shot anything with no risk. So where engagements occur is 100% up to me. As often as I solo T4, I know that plopping an ancient specter next to the pod renders it almost invulnerable. Normally, I don't start having trouble until wave 30 or so, and only because it becomes difficult to manage all the nullifiers and rockets (bombard rockets are tougher to notice on PS4 due to lower framerate and resolution). As long as I watch the backdoor, I think I should be able to go wave 60 without trouble.

Now I kinda wanna test this. Will be amusing. Will let you know how it goes.

Also, I would ask you not ignore my points either.

[Dragazer]

43 minutes ago, (PS4)BlitzKeir said:

As I said in my above post, Maiming Strike gives 5% base crit chance melee weapons a 95% at-will crit chance. But even with 5% crit chance, proccing Naramon is easy since every crit resets the timer on its invisibility. Or you could just use a charged attack to reset the timer at will. Once it gets going, it never stops as long as you keep swinging. As I also said, Maiming Strike can proc Berserker. Naramon is broken. I am speaking from experience.

I encourage anyone commenting on Shadow Step to actually try it first. Trust me, you vastly underestimate its power. Its value is universal and dwarfs even Zenurik's potential. And this is coming from a guy who mains Zenurik, and whose favorite builds can spam powers at minimum efficiency.

First of all, by the logic in your first sentence, nothing is overpowered. That's like saying if I had a button that gave me infinite health and damage, it's not overpowered because it's still my choice whether or not to press the button.

Secondly, Naramon does what you describe in your second sentence better because it dumps aggro completely. You will not be targeted as long as Shadow Step is active. Enemies will aim, get confused, and then stand there twitching until you one-shot them. If you are visible briefly, they will aim where they last saw you. But if you become visible with Shadow Step, that's your fault. It's a very unlikely occurrence unless you stop attacking for some reason.

I get the impression you haven't used Naramon outside of a brief test. Let me put it this way. I mained a pure melee Warcry Valkyr for a long time when I first started on console. None of the strategies I had to employ to survive are relevant anymore. In fact, no strategy or effort is required at all. Any frame with Naramon is safer than a pre-18.13 Valkyr with Hysteria active. I just mash O forever and win. Yeah, sure, I was using a highly min/maxed Fragor Prime in the specific scenario I described, but that's not necessary. I achieved similar results with a Prisma Skana and Banshee. If I stayed in T4 sur for long enough with that setup, I might have to hit some enemies twice. Wouldn't that be something.

Now we are just using over exaggerations. With the way how ridiculous enemy scaling is, one shotting enemies with melee is complete bu11crap. The vid you showed was you one shotting level 25 enemies (Did you honestly believe you would get away with that crap?), there is absolutely no way that's gonna happen at legit high levels (80+). You are just straight up lying in order to support your already weak point. Naramon never had extreme power to begin with, untargetable does not = Valkyrs complete damage and cc invulnerability, which she still has.   

Edited June 8, 2016 by Dragazer

[Dragazer]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)BlitzKeir said:

I can one-shot anything with no risk.

Why you always lying?

 

20 minutes ago, (PS4)BlitzKeir said:

Also, I would ask you not ignore my points either.

I would, if they actually made sense.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Dragazer

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

5 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

Now we are just using over exaggerations. With the way how ridiculous enemy scaling is, one shotting enemies with melee is complete bu11crap. The vid you showed was you one shotting level 25 enemies, there is absolutely no way that's gonna happen at legit high levels (80+). You are just straight up lying in order to support your already weak point. Naramon never had extreme power to begin with, untargetable does not= Valkyrs complete damage and cc invulnerabilit, which she still has.   

So you're saying words alone don't matter, and the video that I recorded because it made me laugh doesn't necessarily support my point? Okay. Sure. I'll accept that. It's not good science.

So prove me wrong.

Edit: Don't be tacky.

Edited June 8, 2016 by (PS4)BlitzKeir

[DxAdder]

Nerf Happy People......

You think people need Naramon to be perm-invisible ? I can do the exact same think with Loki. 

Go back to the Ash Nerf threads...

 

[GreyEnneract]

If anything Naramon could use a buff to give additive crit chance instead of multiplicative.

Though I agree with whoever said Shadow Step should only proc when your melee is actually equipped.

Currently Zenurik has almost everything. CC, more CC, damage, energy utility, seeing through walls, etc.

It's other schools that need a buff this time. Focus is supposed to be for end game players.

And seeing as it takes ~139 days/13.8+m points of grinding to the cap every single day to max out a single Focus school, it better be worth it.

[Dragazer]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)BlitzKeir said:

So you're saying words alone don't matter, and the video that I recorded because it made me laugh doesn't necessarily support my point? Okay. Sure. I'll accept that. It's not good science.

So prove me wrong.

No, give me proof of you actually one shotting level 80+ enemies solo with that same build. Otherwise I'm not impressed at all with you oneshotting level 25s in that video (Really man?)

Edited June 8, 2016 by Dragazer

[Serafim_94]

1 hour ago, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

They prefer having fun, and last I checked "playing effectively" means using 3 frames and 4 weapons pretty much.

Funny, yet here I am, sitting at quite a bunch of weapons and frames to rotate at will.

Don't like invisible naramon? Don't use it. How hard is that? It's not like it affects teammates somehow, so your general pathetic argument of "I want to have fun but they don't let me to" doesn't even apply here.

As for Ash - it's different topic. I personally think he is overhyped. Then again, I don't farm Draco...

[NightElve]

59 minutes ago, Praxxor said:

So you are saying that people who spent hours upon hours to farm their lovely melee mods, some even spent plat on shadow's debt etc. mods, then spent the countless resources on maxing them, THEN spent the time to farm the ridiculous amounts of focus, those people should be punished?

Do you even realize how long it takes to make a "good" mod set for melee? And even then you are limited in:1) range 2) time (combo counter)

IMO Melee is in the perfect spot right now

if you see any MR 19 and above calling for nerfs to stuff like this, it's better leaving them alone, if they spend their entire life/day playing warframe and rank up stuff day and night, they become very OP, and later get bored, Lol! why do you think all nerfs are called by MR 20's mostly? just look at the OP! warframe is a grind game, and it's put that way so that players don't burn through content that fast, but fact this players represent a rather minority so.... nobody cares.

[Keiiken]

2 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Why not make Naramon's passives only applicable to Equiped Melee? That way you will have a drawback (no gun use). Because that invisibility is what makes melee viable in high level content to begin with, if you love your Simulor and Tonkor fine, but don't force other players just because you don't like that melee FINALLY has survivability in high level content.

Naramon already does not work with guns, that was a bug fixed ages ago.
If you want to maintain your shadow step without equipping melee it means every few second you have to stop shooting and melee until you crit.

[Relentless.Zen]

2 hours ago, ranks21 said:

no play the game with whats there << use what you like and stay away from what you don't like and ultimately let others enjoy the game.

I'm glad that someone else shares this opinion. It's really sad to see people complaining about anything in the game (Buff this / nerf that). If you are not satisfied with the performance of a frame/weapon etc please play something else. This game has sooo many possibilities to get a fitting Build for everyones personal playing-style.

The concept of Warframe is simple: >Hero-like warriors fighting against the bad guys in the Solarsystem.<
i'd understand if the Infesteds would come into the forums and cry about the insane Warframe powers. But they wont. Its a PvE game and this Powers make the Game to what it is and has to feel like.
Enemy units like the Nullifier (and those drones in the nighmare LoR), Bursas, those Ancients, Stalker and also Enemy Scaling keeping the Gameplay balanced.

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

23 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

No, give me proof of you actually one shotting level 80+ enemies solo with that same build. Otherwise I'm not impressed at all with you oneshotting level 25s in that video (Really man?)

"Impressed"...? What gave you the impression that I was boasting? I am an average player at best in any game. Don't make this personal. You haven't offered any counter-evidence, only off-handedly dismissed my arguments. Even though we are basically in agreement, by your first few posts in this thread.

There are two ways for me to realistically test whether I can one-shot a lv80 corrupted enemy: either solo T4 sur for a few hours until enemy levels ramp up, or stay for about an hour and a half with a full squad. I don't personally know anyone who would help me test those conditions, and I really don't feel like mashing O for three hours to prove a point. So it'll have to wait till tomorrow's sorties.

Edit: Scratch that, today's sorties. Rollover is in 10m.

Edited June 8, 2016 by (PS4)BlitzKeir

[NightElve]

2 hours ago, YasaiTsume said:

Naramon Shadow Step needs a mechanically more interesting alternative to plain ol' invisibol. (Nerf hue)

My take on Shadow Step is to give it a few effects :

1. Movement speed boost

2. Attacking enemies will turn the Naramon user invisible for a split second, therefore, higher attack speed, more invisibility

3. Naramon user is invisible during Parkour moves

4. Killing an enemy will grant a very short window of invisibility 

It should be less oppressive than plain perma invisibility because in between kills the enemy still has chance to sight the player if they are not actively parkouring about the place as they should, because Ninjas need to be fast and stealthy. 

i read all that and meh.. i prefer DE's design, problem is you actually, a large amount of warframe players are struggling to upgrade shadow step, you grinded for  it got bored with it fine.... that's your problem all this nerf players, quit playing the game and switch to being developers, it's funnier when you see players suggesting how to build certain skills.