Boss test: Limbo vs (nearly) every boss

[Sir.X]

Weapon Loadout:

Dex Sybaris, AkMagnus, Nikana prime

Bosses that I did not fight due to amount of grind/difficulty to get to them:

 

Mutalist AladV

Golem

Kela De Thaym

Corrupted Vor

So I decided to try and see just why Limbo and some other frames are the least used, and decided to go through most of the bosses in the solar system to see whats wrong with him. To make this short as possible, I won't describe how each boss fight went, but mainly the repeating pattern with each one.

Conclusion

Limbo has no way to defend himself from attacks. Immediately people are going to say that Rift Walk is the answer to this issue, but its not that simple.

See, if your in the Rift, you and the enemies cannot hit each other. But as soon as you Banish them, you might as well just not be in the Rift, because they both function the same. Certain bosses will only be Banished for a second or two, and with enemies continuously spawning in the room, you have to continuously jump in and out of the Rift to prevent yourself from dying and to attack the enemy. Of course, you can Banish single enemies, or use Cataclysm to kill a large group then detonate it, but the amount of energy used is way too high in order for it to become efficient. Nearly every Warframe has some form of an ability to where they can defend themselves, and attack at the same time. Limbo has none, its either you can't attack each other, or you can't defend yourself at all.

Edited June 10, 2016 by shadow18715

[SoIaris]

I don't feel like a boss run was necessary to find this information but it's always good for statistics even with player skill and playstyle as a factor. Limbo has had many rework ideas by fans since release and buffs and changes with augments and mod changings and whatnot it seems like DE sees a problem with his solo and random play but isn't too sure on how to fix it. I remember a while ago them saying something about Limbo needing a buff in a similar manner to Excalibur's change but I think that might have either been forgotten or just outruled by their current projects, I feel like U19 is the update they will finally address Limbo after they make certain their quest and update overall is running smoothly. No evidence to back up this feeling, but I just feel like after U19 releases and TennoCon happens (maybe they address this at the con) they will have the time to properly focus on warframes in needs of buffs, changes, or nerfs

[rawr1254]

Oh man your just inviting all the "Limbo is a lot of tactics and if you can't do that then git gud and use Valkyr" noobs...

They think just cause he can cheese through the lasers in spy missions it makes him never need to be made useful...

[MegatronG1]

Saying he has no way to defend himself sounds like a bit of a stretch. He can still take cover behind objects or do some parkour around the room to avoid damage.

Cataclysm, is not meant to be a damage ability, but you can use it to make enemies inside the bubble to be damageable from far away using snipers or bows to hit them from afar.

I do agree that once enemies are in the rift and have gotten up that limbo is pretty much screwed over unless you have quick thinking equiped and prime flow to safely make it away from the damage zone.

[SeaUrchins]

Your conclusion is wrong, as Limbo can dispose of any of the star chart's bosses easily.

[Beggining]

1 hour ago, SeaUrchins said:

Your conclusion is wrong, as Limbo can dispose of any of the star chart's bosses easily.

Elaborate, please? We do not want to start another debate around baseless assertions.

[Sir.X]

2 hours ago, SeaUrchins said:

Your conclusion is wrong, as Limbo can dispose of any of the star chart's bosses easily.

Of course, if you allowed your weapons to do most of the work, then yeah. Thats why I tried not to find a low damage weapon, but also a weapon where its not point and click and the enemy is dead before you even start.

Edited June 10, 2016 by shadow18715

[SeaUrchins]

There, you have disproved your own conclusion. Most of frames kill bosses with weapons, so it is an irrelevant excuse. Attack, insane burst dps and mobility is your defence. If you can't cope with it, maybe Limbo is just not the right frame for you. If you want to stand there and take the beating, of course Limbo will die, he's sophisticated.

1 hour ago, Beggining said:

Elaborate, please? We do not want to start another debate around baseless assertions.

Name the boss you think is difficult for Limbo and I will try to prove you wrong.

Edited June 10, 2016 by SeaUrchins

[(PSN)SNAKE0757]

Every warframe specializes in certain missions, and limbo doesn't shine in offense. And even the things he does "shine in" there are already warframes who simply do it better. He needs a rework honestly...

[PrVonTuckIII]

8 hours ago, rawr1254 said:

Oh man your just inviting all the "Limbo is a lot of tactics and if you can't do that then git gud and use Valkyr" noobs...

They think just cause he can cheese through the lasers in spy missions it makes him never need to be made useful...

He does require a lot of tinkering, but that doesn't make people who use him 'noobs.' Spy cheesing aside, he's also one of the best for Rescue and (personally) ODD. Nevertheless, I'm welcoming the incoming rework (which was confirmed).

Edited June 10, 2016 by PrVonTuckIII

[(PSN)EVILFLUFFMONSTER]

You can shoot into a cataclysm from afar if you are in the rift. You can get a damage multiplier from enemies in the rift too.

Testing a frame against bosses isnt the most accurate way of testing how "good" a frame is - look at crowd control frames, excellent at endgame content..but mostly ineffective against bosses after the recent changes. 

Limbos biggest benefits are for his team mates - he can revive while immune to damage, heal team mates, and cataclysm if used correctly can actually be used as a free energy restore point that you can nip inside for cover against enemy fire while your sheilds replenish. Alternatively you can simply ask to be banished - which is excellent with frames with spammable damage powers or CC as power s affect enemies still, while they cannot hurt you.

Limbo by himself? Not so good, but a large cataclysm works well with a lifestrike build on melee weapons as your energy just keeps regenerating inside meaning you can heal yourself much more frequently - plus enemy fire from outside of melee range gets blocked by the bubble depending on the bubbles size.

With the recent scaling changes to melee weapons they are now end-game viable - so add together the protective bubble, infinite energy, optional invincibility when needed( for 40 or more seconds) and an augment that can give you a huge damage multiplier for enemies in the bubble, great synergy with life strike. I shouldnt have to mention Naramon and crit weapons multiplying this damage even further.

His bubble blocking your own guns is what people dont like - and he has no damage abilities other than the buff to his weapons. If other frames powers were as effective as weapons then people would love Limbo a lot more - but most people have to rely on CC and a big powerful gun for end game stuff. Damage powers are either not good enough..or they get nerfed for being too good lol.

[ConfessionalPriest]

8 hours ago, MegatronG1 said:

He can still take cover behind objects or do some parkour around the room to avoid damage.

just lol

[Slaviar]

Actually, Limbo is very useful on Kela De Thaym boss fight. He can easily protect entire team from bombardment and safely revive if necessary

[ranks21]

half the time youll be reviving a limbo player in any serious game play no matter how they wanna say this frame is good blah blah. his powers just has too many negatives that outweighs the positives in endless missions.

limiting a frame for 1 or 2 mission types is just a weak crutch. hindering players to complete objectives and picking up essentials like ammo is trolling in its purest form. limbo= the damned if you do damned if you don't frame of this game. but hey kudos to those who likes him and no he's not a sophisticated frame to use  this is not quantum physics.

[Xgomme]

Limbo + charged weapon = answer

 

Staticor for example, charge the hadoken while in riftwalk, go out and release the hadoken, recast riftwalk, profit ^^

[SeaUrchins]

There, you made me go and make an example of Lech Kril.

This is what Limbo can do onto a boss:

 

[Clonmac]

Good stuff SeaUrchins.

A lot of people really and truly just don't understand how to utilize Limbo's strengths. Just look at the stuff said in this thread for examples of that. I can't believe there are people who say he isn't good at offense when literally that is his biggest strength!

Limbo is no worse at boss fights than any other warframe and in my mind one of the best. He does an insane amount of damage while in the rift and you can literally choose any weapon and have it be like you're using 5 of those weapons against a boss. His multiplier is especially good when a boss might only be vulnerable for a small period of time. Having a strong multiplier like that allows Limbo to deal maximum damage in small time frames when needed. It is often because of this that when I fight a boss as Limbo with a team, I am usually the one that ended up dealing the most damage to the boss.

On top of that, because many bosses aren't vulnerable at all times, you might as well not be vulnerable yourself. Limbo can then simply Rift Walk at times when the boss would normally just be an invulnerable offensive powerhouse. Other warframes are left to struggle during those moments whereas Limbo can simply wait it out.

His Cataclysm isn't a nuke, so you shouldn't be using it as such and then saying he's ineffective. I think it is funny how you mention you can just pick any weapon with him and kill the boss in one shot...which effectively counters the point of this entire thread you created...

Limbo kills things with weapons.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Clonmac

[ranks21]

the game and the devs stresses co-op  where does limbo fit in this grand scheme?? where does the rift allows others to interact with everything co-operatively? most of if not all of his abilities only benefits limbo.  banishing a player makes them unable to interact with anything around them especially if they are in dire need of health or ammo on the fly he's just an anti everything frame  that causes more harm than good even a kubrow is a better choice than limbo.

Edited June 10, 2016 by ranks21

[Heliopata]

1 hour ago, ranks21 said:

the game and the devs stresses co-op  where does limbo fit in this grand scheme?? where does the rift allows others to interact with everything co-operatively? most of if not all of his abilities only benefits limbo.  banishing a player makes them unable to interact with anything around them especially if they are in dire need of health or ammo on the fly he's just an anti everything frame  that causes more harm than good even a kubrow is a better choice than limbo.

A few i can think of: you can banish players to use abilities safely in the rift (Also eximus auras dont affect you in the rift, thats a nice counter for leech eximi), a small cataclysm for defense and revive people safely the other half of the time you are not dead. 

[vrdwrst2]

Just stay on your toes.

Dodge, dodge, dodge, and you should be fine. 

[Clonmac]

2 hours ago, ranks21 said:

the game and the devs stresses co-op  where does limbo fit in this grand scheme?? where does the rift allows others to interact with everything co-operatively? most of if not all of his abilities only benefits limbo.  banishing a player makes them unable to interact with anything around them especially if they are in dire need of health or ammo on the fly he's just an anti everything frame  that causes more harm than good even a kubrow is a better choice than limbo.

In what way do the devs stress co-op? That's a legitimate question that I'd look for you to answer. The truth is that in warframe there is very little co-op between players. Ultimately, the only form of "co-op" in this game is crowd control. The only other form of co-op this game has are a few frames that do some teammate buffing. Other than that, the benefit you receive from having other warframes on your team is simply added killing power and revivals.

There are only a few warframes that can truly be classified as having abilities that benefit teammates (such as trinity).

That same statement you said could also be said about a vast majority of warframes. For example, Ember, outside of a brief stun, provides absolutely no benefits to your teammates outside of killing power. Most of Ember's abilities essentially only benefit Ember...that is only if you consider killing enemies not a benefit to your teammates. So just because a warframe only brings killing power to the table, does that mean they're a hindrance to the time? I don't think so, since the point of the game is to kill things.

Limbo can kill things just as easily (if not easier from what I've found) that any other warframe. So why is it that you find him a hindrance to the team?

On top of that, as Heliopata said, Limbo at least DOES bring some actual teamplay capabilities to the game that no other warframe can provide. That's in addition to the fact that he is undoubtedly one of the best reviving warframes in the game. So if you're down and need a revive, no matter the situation you can always count on a Limbo to be able to revive you.

So how again is Limbo a hindrance to the team?

[ranks21]

not the best reviving frame<< that goes to an augment for nekros, valkyr is second, loki is third ivara fourth excal is fifth chroma is up there so is atlas and his wall and also ash..

 had you say limbo could potentially keep players alive better than other frames with his banishing ability then I would agree with you.

 the game is by its own definition classed as co-op so that should answer that question for you. roll through some of their earlier devstreams ( cant be bothered to pick one as there are more than one) and youll hear them say it quite often.

 on the topic of coop  just the addition of raids furthermore solidifies the coop stature/definition of the game.

Edited June 10, 2016 by ranks21

[izzatuw]

People just don't like Limbo right now is because in order to use him to optimal capacity all the players have to heavily revolve around his style, he's not like other frames where they just click with each other instantly.

 

If you want to use Limbo to any huge extent outside of defence and MD in team play your teammates better know what's going on with him or else the Limbo will just hit 1 on that one teammate and he'll immediately roll out. 

 

Limbo can either be the worst or the best team player depending on the situation. 

 

I also think it's because asides from the energy regen, there is no actual point to go inside rift for too long. It hinders killing potential for most frames that don't have a lot of damage abilities and it doesn't allow pick ups.

 

If the rift had innate health regen too Limbo would arguably be really useful.

Edited June 10, 2016 by izzatuw

[Cyonan]

For me the best part of Limbo was just rendered obsolete: Being able to ignore laser grids in spy missions while in the rift.

Now Ivara is basically like Limbo and Loki had a child who got the best traits for running spy missions from each of them.

The main thing left for him that I like using him for is Sortie defense missions, because he can just banish the operative and nothing will ever be able to hurt him.

Other than that he's way too niche of a frame, as much as I want to like him.

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

8 hours ago, ranks21 said:

not the best reviving frame<< that goes to an augment for nekros, valkyr is second, loki is third ivara fourth excal is fifth chroma is up there so is atlas and his wall and also ash..

 had you say limbo could potentially keep players alive better than other frames with his banishing ability then I would agree with you.

 the game is by its own definition classed as co-op so that should answer that question for you. roll through some of their earlier devstreams ( cant be bothered to pick one as there are more than one) and youll hear them say it quite often.

 on the topic of coop  just the addition of raids furthermore solidifies the coop stature/definition of the game.

Lol how is Loki better at revives then limbo & nekros can get one shotted way before he uses soul survivor . While limbo can just chill in the rift for days . Especially with a small cataclysm