HEK level requirement is really high

[Babalenong]

Discuss, I have yet to see anyone at lvl 5 myself

Imo it should have been level 3

[Zakalwe]

They said they're looking at lowering it, but I like that it's so high right now.

It's a decent goal for players while we're in beta and the game doesn't have much content, I like having it to work toward, it feels like there's a little more purpose playing the same content over and over.

[Feindfeuer]

There was a time where you could buy and build the HEK blueprint, even before leveling ot 5... that's how i got mine. I certainly feel like the requirements should be a bit lower, but the stats put more in line with the rest of the arsenal... atm, there is no need for any other shotgun besides the HEK.

[Zakalwe]

atm, there is no need for any other shotgun besides the HEK.

Which is another reason to keep it higher. You can try the others out before you get a hold of this beast and they become obsolete!

[BioSphere]

Is the rank requirement still at rank 5? I can buy the BP for it and I'm at rank 4.

and it doesn't show the rank requirement after it's buyable.

Edited January 24, 2013 by BioSphere

[direcyphre]

Current rank requirement is 4 now, and Gorgon I hear was changed to rank 3. Would be nice if there was still an indicator of these requirements in the information panel when buying, just as reference.

I don't believe it's too high. I'm not even that hardcore of a player and I'm like 9k from rank 4. And that's only with having purchased weapons with credits and building a frame.

[Zakalwe]

Is the rank requirement still at rank 5? I can buy the BP for it and I'm at rank 4.

and it doesn't show the rank requirement after it's buyable.

They said they were going to lower it, perhaps it was part of one of the recent updates... no notes yet!

[Stratos4Kamikaze]

I saw it on the market, now you must be rank 4 to buy the Hek blueprint.

http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/3994/warframe201301241400504.jpg

Edited January 24, 2013 by Stratos4Kamikaze

[aTaVaX]

i'm not a fan of the level requirement system. Especially as a player that hasn't invested money into increasing his weapon or frame slots. I basically have to buy a weapon, level it, delete it, buy it again, level it again, delete it again.... not exactly fun or rewarding progression...

Edited January 24, 2013 by aTaVaX

[Zakalwe]

i'm not a fan of the level requirement system. Especially as a player that hasn't invested money into increasing his weapon or frame slots. I basically have to buy a weapon, level it, delete it, buy it again, level it again, delete it again.... not exactly fun or rewarding progression...

I guess it's further incenctive to support the game.

Is $5-$10 really a lot to ask? You could unlock a decent amount of slots for that. The devs deserve it, this game is pretty amazing, especially considering it's in closed beta.

[Ced23Ric]

Is $5-$10 really a lot to ask? You could unlock a decent amount of slots for that. The devs deserve it, this game is pretty amazing, especially considering it's in closed beta.

Well, that isn't quite the approach. While I agree in essence, it is an indirect wall barring free players from accessing content. If you need to buy something to get something else, it means that you can only access parts of the content with money. And that's not necessarily Free To Play, then.

[Zakalwe]

Well, that isn't quite the approach. While I agree in essence, it is an indirect wall barring free players from accessing content. If you need to buy something to get something else, it means that you can only access parts of the content with money. And that's not necessarily Free To Play, then.

I don't agree. You don't need to buy anything, you can delete it to make rooom. If you don't want that inconvenience, then you can spend a very small amount of money to remove the restriction. I don't see it as a wall, they can progress still.

Honesltly, I think F2Pers get a lot for nothing.

[cypherhalo]

i'm not a fan of the level requirement system. Especially as a player that hasn't invested money into increasing his weapon or frame slots. I basically have to buy a weapon, level it, delete it, buy it again, level it again, delete it again.... not exactly fun or rewarding progression...

I agree, I dislike any kind of "slot" system in an F2P game. This was one of the things which turned me off from MWO.

Personally, I would counsel the devs to remove the slots for weapons and warframes, or least make it so you can buy them with credits.

[Zakalwe]

I agree, I dislike any kind of "slot" system in an F2P game. This was one of the things which turned me off from MWO.

Personally, I would counsel the devs to remove the slots for weapons and warframes, or least make it so you can buy them with credits.

Do you think they'd make enough money if they did?

If the data suggests that slots are not one of the largest revenue generators, and that their removal wouldn't hurt the development of the game, then I'd say sure, remove them. Only the devs can know this, though.

[KGeddon]

There was a time where you could buy and build the HEK blueprint, even before leveling ot 5... that's how i got mine. I certainly feel like the requirements should be a bit lower, but the stats put more in line with the rest of the arsenal... atm, there is no need for any other shotgun besides the HEK.

This is not because the HEK is good necessarily. It is because the other shotguns are bad.

[V1RTU5]

This is not because the HEK is good necessarily. It is because the other shotguns are bad.

no the strun is very good, just the hek is beter. they recently lowered the requirement to lvl 4 which is a more sutable lvl for it. hoping to see more lvl 4 weps soon

[UkyoSonoda]

Well they needed to lower the requirement a little since they've cut it's damage output by over half since it was added. I remember seeing it listed as 300 damage before. Though probably the nerfs came about because everyone was getting it alot sooner than they should have because of the blueprint earlier.

I'm approaching rank 4 currently and only capped volt, bolto, gorgon, and hek atm (got blueprint before rank update on it) though I have 10 or so ranks in a few other weapons and my Mag at I think lv 28 along with my Cronus. Currently playing around with Afuris and Snipetron which I started using last night. So IMO getting to rank 4 isn't hard to do even with the limited selection of weapons and frames we have now. It's just a bit time consuming if you become obsessed with trying to rank up as fast as possible to get something.

[KGeddon]

no the strun is very good, just the hek is beter. they recently lowered the requirement to lvl 4 which is a more sutable lvl for it. hoping to see more lvl 4 weps soon

Strun is not good. A shotgun imparts an equal amount of the propellants energy to each pellet in a load of buckshot. The amount of energy that is transferred to the target is determined by the percentage of pellets that hit the target. Game mechanics can accurately reflect this by simply generating 10 pellets at 12 damage to produce a 120 base damage "Strun".

However, the strun has a very low effective range. It's similar to the idea of using a spreader choke, but hitting with 1 pellet can kill in real life, but in this game 12 base damage is pretty bad.

[aTaVaX]

I guess it's further incenctive to support the game.

Is $5-$10 really a lot to ask? You could unlock a decent amount of slots for that. The devs deserve it, this game is pretty amazing, especially considering it's in closed beta.

does it make me want to "buy" the game or support it? no. It makes my image of the game suffer and it makes me think the game is worth less money. The free to play games that have gotten the most money from me are the ones where i have never felt restricted in gameplay or progression due to not investing money into them. If you're going to make the game unfun unless you spend money, why not just provide a free demo and make everyone have to pay money to play the game? How are teh developers benefiting from making an unfun version of their game available to people that haven't yet payed money?

Edited January 24, 2013 by aTaVaX

[direcyphre]

Because the game is still closed beta, and no 'free to play' game is entirely free or without restriction.

[GenocideWolf]

does it make me want to "buy" the game or support it? no. It makes my image of the game suffer and it makes me think the game is worth less money. The free to play games that have gotten the most money from me are the ones where i have never felt restricted in gameplay or progression due to not investing money into them. If you're going to make the game unfun unless you spend money, why not just provide a free demo and make everyone have to pay money to play the game? How are teh developers benefiting from making an unfun version of their game available to people that haven't yet payed money?

I agree with this statement, anything barring progression or slowing down the pacing of the game makes it worth less money. I was all set to buy founders and then I got hit with a 3 1/2 day wait timer for a new frame and lost a lot of the momentum and sense that I was gaining something from my time spent playing/grinding. Unnecessary restrictions disconnect the grind=reward feeling that grinding is based around.

Now I'm adopting a wait and see approach. Farmville timers and slot restrictions don't make me want to spend my money, they make me hate the game a little and want to play a different game while waiting to get the stuff I already worked for, and consequently spend my money elsewhere. The fact I have to delete stuff to make space just gives me a sense of wasted time instead of progression.

The only thing this game has going for it is loot and (eventually) more weapons, restricting that is like playing super mario and getting the mushroom for free but having to pay a dollar to unlock the yellow cape or the fire flower.

There's way too many quality games out there that don't have you hit pay walls in the first week of playing, it gives a bad impression of what awaits and makes me reluctant to heavily support a game that does so.

[Tykero]

Creating new content costs money. They have to pay an entire team to produce one game object, from the model and texture work, to the coding and design implementation. Weapon and Warframe slots don't require money for the team to "produce." It's just an arbitrary lock on your inventory until you pay to expand it.

The problem is, players realize they're not getting an actual value out of paying for inventory slots. Even if they're not consciously aware of the distinction, they know it.

Platinum-only inventory slots are a bad idea. They will continue to be a bad idea. That is not going to change, and it will negatively affect the game if it is released like that. I say this as somebody who is more than happy to support the game.

[KGeddon]

I agree with this statement, anything barring progression or slowing down the pacing of the game makes it worth less money. I was all set to buy founders and then I got hit with a 3 1/2 day wait timer for a new frame and lost a lot of the momentum and sense that I was gaining something from my time spent playing/grinding. Unnecessary restrictions disconnect the grind=reward feeling that grinding is based around.

Now I'm adopting a wait and see approach. Farmville timers and slot restrictions don't make me want to spend my money, they make me hate the game a little and want to play a different game while waiting to get the stuff I already worked for, and consequently spend my money elsewhere. The fact I have to delete stuff to make space just gives me a sense of wasted time instead of progression.

The only thing this game has going for it is loot and (eventually) more weapons, restricting that is like playing super mario and getting the mushroom for free but having to pay a dollar to unlock the yellow cape or the fire flower.

There's way too many quality games out there that don't have you hit pay walls in the first week of playing, it gives a bad impression of what awaits and makes me reluctant to heavily support a game that does so.

You will spend your money however you wish. This is a given.

How you feel about the game affects how YOU will spend your money.

However, nothing you said here is anything other than opinion. Keep that in mind.

The game is not forcing you to play <xx> minigame <xx> times to complete a warframe. It is simply a delay inserted between acquistion of mats and ownership. You can pay to eliminate this wait(which is just a nag timer really)

Deleting stuff. If you buy founders, you get plat. The slots are hideously cheap. I'm fine with them not giving the "full" game for free. Instead, totally free players get the addition of the deletion game.

[UkyoSonoda]

Build timers or limited inventory slots does not equate to withholding game content unless you pay for it.

Withholding game content unless you pay for it is essentially what a few supposedly f2p MMORPGs have done where your access to the world is extremely limited unless you either buy their premium subscription or buy each individual content package add-on they have available in their shop.

I seen WoW ads that claim it's supposedly free to play now. In one sense it is. However free to play WoW is essentially an unlimited duration free trial as I believe you cannot level past 20 and cannot travel or access much of the world or use a number of features without actually paying for a WoW subscription.

[Tykero]

In a game where the current progression is based largely around acquiring and leveling up new Warframes and Weapons, limiting free players to so few slots seems like a great way to get them to quit.

I don't mind the build timers that much, honestly, though I do think three days might be a bit excessive.

The old tired "support the game or feel free to quit" line is harmful to the game's health. Free players are a very important part of a free game's value. A larger population, especially in a cooperative game, increases the perceived value of the paid content.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Tykero