HEK level requirement is really high

[GenocideWolf]

You will spend your money however you wish. This is a given.

How you feel about the game affects how YOU will spend your money.

However, nothing you said here is anything other than opinion. Keep that in mind.

The game is not forcing you to play <xx> minigame <xx> times to complete a warframe. It is simply a delay inserted between acquistion of mats and ownership. You can pay to eliminate this wait(which is just a nag timer really)

Deleting stuff. If you buy founders, you get plat. The slots are hideously cheap. I'm fine with them not giving the "full" game for free. Instead, totally free players get the addition of the deletion game.

I fail to see the relevance in making note that my post is my opinion, which is fairly obvious, and that I need to "keep that in mind".

You need to keep in mind that if people are unsatisfied with the product, people stop paying, then the game dies.

Build timers or limited inventory slots does not equate to withholding game content unless you pay for it.

What it equates to is wasting my time for no other reason than slapping a price on something I refuse to pay for. I'll never pay for it, so at this point it's an unnecessary annoyance. They're not even selling me anything, all they have done is slapped a price on my patience every time I use the foundry.

When the base gameplay is as simplistic as "shoot or stab everything in your way, Tenno", new gear and leveling weapons is pretty much all there is to the game. That progression comes in the form of RNG-given mods you have little control over, and leveling Warframes, weapons, and ranks.

If I hit a point where I can't keep all my leveled warframes and weapons I enjoy using, and continue to increase my rank my progression is halted by a pay wall unless I want to lose something I put my time and effort into. That is withholding content(higher ranks which unlocks xp locked weapons) unless I pay or delete something.

Their monetization decisions have pretty much made my money walk out the door. I've had multiple friends not pleased and they're either quitting or deciding not to play, so yeah, my $100 may be a drop in the bucket, but I've got 11 friends whose money is also not going to DE because of these annoyances. Customization limits and paywalls are what kept friends who before finding out about it were gung-ho about spending the $250 for Grand Master.

I want Warframe to succeed, otherwise I'd have just not said anything like so many others do when they quit.

[KGeddon]

I fail to see the relevance in making note that my post is my opinion, which is fairly obvious, and that I need to "keep that in mind".

You need to keep in mind that if people are unsatisfied with the product, people stop paying, then the game dies.

What it equates to is wasting my time for no other reason than slapping a price on something I refuse to pay for. I'll never pay for it, so at this point it's an unnecessary annoyance. They're not even selling me anything, all they have done is slapped a price on my patience every time I use the foundry.

When the base gameplay is as simplistic as "shoot or stab everything in your way, Tenno", new gear and leveling weapons is pretty much all there is to the game. That progression comes in the form of RNG-given mods you have little control over, and leveling Warframes, weapons, and ranks.

If I hit a point where I can't keep all my leveled warframes and weapons I enjoy using, and continue to increase my rank my progression is halted by a pay wall unless I want to lose something I put my time and effort into. That is withholding content(higher ranks which unlocks xp locked weapons) unless I pay or delete something.

Their monetization decisions have pretty much made my money walk out the door. I've had multiple friends not pleased and they're either quitting or deciding not to play, so yeah, my $100 may be a drop in the bucket, but I've got 11 friends whose money is also not going to DE because of these annoyances. Customization limits and paywalls are what kept friends who before finding out about it were gung-ho about spending the $250 for Grand Master.

I want Warframe to succeed, otherwise I'd have just not said anything like so many others do when they quit.

People who say "I would have dropped 100 dollars" are usually lying, especially when they complain about the prices and demand free things.

[Tykero]

People who say "I would have dropped 100 dollars" are usually lying, especially when they complain about the prices and demand free things.

For what it's worth, I dropped $50 and I still think Warframe Slots and Weapon Slots should not be Platinum-only.

[KGeddon]

For what it's worth, I dropped $50 and I still think Warframe Slots and Weapon Slots should not be Platinum-only.

I can respect "I did something and think this" rather more than "I would have but..."

[GenocideWolf]

People who say "I would have dropped 100 dollars" are usually lying, especially when they complain about the prices and demand free things.

This is the kind of attitude that drives players away. Congratulations, you've accused me of being a liar with zero evidence, this is obviously a community that respects other posters.

I'm not asking for anything for free, I'm asking them to give me better reasons to spend my money.

I can respect "I did something and think this" rather more than "I would have but..."

So, I have to waste my money on an incomplete product I'm not confident in so people will take my statements seriously, that's stupid.

The point of "voting with your dollar" is to not give your money to people who haven't proven themselves to be able to deliver to your satisfaction, not to give them your money and THEN complain about how you're not satisfied. They have what they came for, your opinion is now worth much, much, less. Even if you leave at that point, it doesn't matter, your money stays with them.

[KGeddon]

You and your 11 friends who were all going to pay 250 dollars a piece left. And people just leave without complaining on forums. Riiiiight.

edit::BTW, provide me with proof that you and your friends paid 250 dollars each and I'll retract my statements. Otherwise, I was going to spend 3,000 dollars, but you &!$$ed me off with YOUR attitude.

Edited January 25, 2013 by KGeddon

[aTaVaX]

If you read my post you would know the problem is not the inconvenience of not being able to have more than a certain number of weapons or frames. i have no problem being inconvenienced and may pay money to be less inconvenienced in a game.

The problem is that the progression system, a core aspect of gameplay, where you buy weapons, level them, delete them, buy them again, level them again, and then delete them again is unfun if you don't pay to avoid the deleting part. Its like giving people a free demo of your game that is unfun and then expecting them to pay money to play the game. You are better off not giving them a free demo than making the free demo not fun. Either make progression fun for free or charge money off the bat so that people don't experiance unfun progression.

Edited January 25, 2013 by aTaVaX

[KGeddon]

If you read my post you would know the problem is not the inconvenience of not being able to have more than a certain number of weapons or frames. i have no problem being inconvenienced and may pay money to be less inconvenienced in a game.

The problem is that the progression system, a core aspect of gameplay, where you buy weapons, level them, delete them, buy them again, level them again, and then delete them again is unfun if you don't pay to avoid the deleting part. Its like giving people a free demo of your game that is unfun and then expecting them to pay money to play the game. You are better off not giving them a free demo than making the free demo not fun. Either make progression fun for free or charge money off the bat so that people don't experiance unfun progression.

Lookup the history of DE. In fact, of PC gaming in general. Then talk about a 5 dollar paywall(those 5 dollars being the minimum and the price of McDonalds at lunch).

[Babalenong]

*posts an opinion about hek*

*S#&$storm about something else in the thread*

[GenocideWolf]

You and your 11 friends who were all going to pay 250 dollars a piece left. And people just leave without complaining on forums. Riiiiight.

edit::BTW, provide me with proof that you and your friends paid 250 dollars each and I'll retract my statements. Otherwise, I was going to spend 3,000 dollars, but you &!$$ed me off with YOUR attitude.

They leave without saying anything when they don't care about the future of the game. I would like to see this game succeed, but I'm not going to throw money at a company until they've shown they're moving in the right direction and fix what I don't like about the current product.

And how in god's name am I going to prove to anyone of my or other people's willingness to pay money for a game, save for paying for it and showing a receipt which defeats the point. I stated I was planning on $100, and 11 friends in total were at least going to spend money. 2 of them were going to do the $250 option enthusiastically, another was going to do the $100 option, the others were going to start with $20 and then decide if they wanted to upgrade later.

Friends play together, and friends quit together, now that money is going somewhere else for whichever game is being suggested.

This is the type of attitude fostered in free to play games where certain members have something against those they don't perceive as having "paid their dues" for a product that is marketed as free to play. I've played for free, not had as much fun as warrants the price their asking, and I'm not giving my money until I see some changes, that simple. It's like by playing a free to play game you suddenly have to give the company money or you've done something worth derision.

[KGeddon]

They leave without saying anything when they don't care about the future of the game. I would like to see this game succeed, but I'm not going to throw money at a company until they've shown they're moving in the right direction and fix what I don't like about the current product.

And how in god's name am I going to prove to anyone of my or other people's willingness to pay money for a game, save for paying for it and showing a receipt which defeats the point. I stated I was planning on $100, and 11 friends in total were at least going to spend money. 2 of them were going to do the $250 option enthusiastically, another was going to do the $100 option, the others were going to start with $20 and then decide if they wanted to upgrade later.

Friends play together, and friends quit together, now that money is going somewhere else for whichever game is being suggested.

This is the type of attitude fostered in free to play games where certain members have something against those they don't perceive as having "paid their dues" for a product that is marketed as free to play. I've played for free, not had as much fun as warrants the price their asking, and I'm not giving my money until I see some changes, that simple. It's like by playing a free to play game you suddenly have to give the company money or you've done something worth derision.

You're saying it costs too much. I only paid 10 dollars because that's what I figured out was about the amount of stuff I could buy. I was right, I still have plat. I would have paid more, but the game doesn't cost enough.

[GenocideWolf]

You're saying it costs too much. I only paid 10 dollars because that's what I figured out was about the amount of stuff I could buy. I was right, I still have plat. I would have paid more, but the game doesn't cost enough.

You're not getting it, I'm not saying it costs too much, I'm saying it's not WORTH my money.

My steam library is full of games that were worth my money. My stack of games next to my consoles and handhelds were worth my money. Just because I have money doesn't mean I'm going to waste it on any game that's put in front of me.

I've only spent $5 on this game so far and that's all it is WORTH to me right now. They handle some of the outstanding issues I have, it might be worth more in the future, that's my point. The base gameplay is fine and worth my money, but the monetization decisions they've made that can easily be added/removed/changed are what I have a problem with.

EDIT: stop the pretence of free to play, let me pay my $100 and get rid of all the timers and slot restrictions. The fact I can slowly drain my plat supply whenever I want to craft or upgrade an item isn't the same as it not being there, DE will always add more frames and weapons. It feels like a waste of money to pay someone to not have to wait for something that has no real reason for waiting except for the fact they could monetize it.

Edited January 25, 2013 by GenocideWolf

[KGeddon]

You're not getting it, I'm not saying it costs too much, I'm saying it's not WORTH my money.

My steam library is full of games that were worth my money. My stack of games next to my consoles and handhelds were worth my money. Just because I have money doesn't mean I'm going to waste it on any game that's put in front of me.

I've only spent $5 on this game so far and that's all it is WORTH to me right now. They handle some of the outstanding issues I have, it might be worth more in the future, that's my point. The base gameplay is fine and worth my money, but the monetization decisions they've made that can easily be added/removed/changed are what I have a problem with.

EDIT: stop the pretence of free to play, let me pay my $100 and get rid of all the timers and slot restrictions. The fact I can slowly drain my plat supply whenever I want to craft or upgrade an item isn't the same as it not being there, DE will always add more frames and weapons. It feels like a waste of money to pay someone to not have to wait for something that has no real reason for waiting except for the fact they could monetize it.

You're not getting it. There is no paywall. If you are serious, pay 100 dollars. You can pay your way through timers and buy all the slots you want. That is what 100 dollars gets you.

Free means free. You cannot complain about anything, because it's FREE.

[GenocideWolf]

You're not getting it. There is no paywall. If you are serious, pay 100 dollars. You can pay your way through timers and buy all the slots you want. That is what 100 dollars gets you.

Free means free. You cannot complain about anything, because it's FREE.

So you're saying, there's no paywall, I just have to pay money or delete my hard work to continue progressing. That sounds like a paywall to me.

It's not free when I have to pay to avoid annoyances that are only there because they didn't want to charge me up front.

It's 25 plat to rush a 12 hour Chassis for Rhino. If each part is 25 plat that's 75 plat for the pieces. A further 50(IIRC) plat for the actual blueprint. On top of that it's 20 plat for the catalyst/reactor.

145 plat per warframe, they are adding more warframes eventually. 20 plat to upgrade each weapon you create and the price to rush those.

There are 7 warframes not counting your initial warframe, that comes out to 1015 plat just for rushing and upgrading, not even counting the slots needed to hold them.

$100 if bought through the temporary founders deal gets me 3210 plat. If I buy it after the founders deal expires and only at the most cost effective $100 level, I only get 2100 plat.

Not counting the starter, I've already spent 1015 plat just rushing after grinding for the warframes to get them all and pro them, a further 120 plat to have slots form them.

Each weapon takes 20 plat to pro unless you stay up all hours of the day and night trying to get lucky and get a catalyst/reactor.

There are 31 weapons with more on the way, that's 620 plat to pro each.

144 plat to hold each weapon

That comes to 1899 plat if I grind for each and every one and then only rush them, pro them, and buy slots to hold them, that will take a long time considering the credits and raw materials required. This, once again, isn't counting any new weapons they come out with.

If I decide to just straight up buy everything it comes out to 4704 plat not counting catalysts for the craftable ? alert only weapon blueprints, bundles, avatar packs, or any random other things such as the skins that they are planning to release.

TL;DR you may get a lot of plat if you take the founders deal, but eventually it's going to run out unless you grind for a lot of what you want and don't want a bunch of timers on everything. It's just not worth it, my time is worth more than that to me, and a bunch of other games that don't slap timers on everything seem to think so as well.

[KGeddon]

You can experience the same power paying nothing as you can paying money. Free or pay, you can only equip one warframe, one primary, one secondary, and one melee. You need catalysts and reactors you say? You can buy them with plat or get them as rewards for playing.

You state an opinion. It is incorrect. Good day sir.

Edited January 25, 2013 by KGeddon

[Feindfeuer]

Strun is not good. A shotgun imparts an equal amount of the propellants energy to each pellet in a load of buckshot. The amount of energy that is transferred to the target is determined by the percentage of pellets that hit the target. Game mechanics can accurately reflect this by simply generating 10 pellets at 12 damage to produce a 120 base damage "Strun".

However, the strun has a very low effective range. It's similar to the idea of using a spreader choke, but hitting with 1 pellet can kill in real life, but in this game 12 base damage is pretty bad.

The Strun might have a low effective range for a 'real' shotgun, but it's effective range is more than enough for the corridors and overall short combat ranges we encounter, especially in combination with the high mobility the warframes provide. The Strun was my favorite weapon besides my Latron before i got my hands on the HEK, and i prefered it over almost all other primaries, cause with an aggressive, mobile playstyle it was actually not that hard to get the majority of those pellets on target. And if it were more accurate, you'd have to tone down the damage, as it would just outperform the other weapons in the enclosed, shortranged enviroment we currently are restricted to.

[KGeddon]

The Strun might have a low effective range for a 'real' shotgun, but it's effective range is more than enough for the corridors and overall short combat ranges we encounter, especially in combination with the high mobility the warframes provide. The Strun was my favorite weapon besides my Latron before i got my hands on the HEK, and i prefered it over almost all other primaries, cause with an aggressive, mobile playstyle it was actually not that hard to get the majority of those pellets on target. And if it were more accurate, you'd have to tone down the damage, as it would just outperform the other weapons in the enclosed, shortranged enviroment we currently are restricted to.

I'll have to say no. You realize that the cone it uses to distribute pellets is larger than a grineer at 2m, right?

[V1RTU5]

the strun is a great shotgun its just way under powered compaired to the hek. hence why the hek is such a high lvl to get. if you want to run shotguns while lvling i would sugest the strun untill u get to the hek. most fights are not long range and when they are normaly u can close the gap b4 u take to much damage.

as for the rest of what was said is compleatly off topic and has no purpose in this thread

[Nod_Off]

Well, that isn't quite the approach. While I agree in essence, it is an indirect wall barring free players from accessing content. If you need to buy something to get something else, it means that you can only access parts of the content with money. And that's not necessarily Free To Play, then.

How else are they to make money? Seriously... People need to realize, it is either that, or they charge you a fee for the game upfront.

Businesses are in business to make money, no give you a game completely free... That is how games fail.

I think it is very reasonable for the game provided... And cheap at that, just to pay $5-$10 for a few slots, and what ever else you want.

[aTaVaX]

How else are they to make money? Seriously... People need to realize, it is either that, or they charge you a fee for the game upfront.

Businesses are in business to make money, no give you a game completely free... That is how games fail.

I think it is very reasonable for the game provided... And cheap at that, just to pay $5-$10 for a few slots, and what ever else you want.

why do people have to defend every place they charge and be like, hey, its either this or they charge you up front? Isn't there a difference between doing free to play poorly and doing free to play well? Isn't it possible that some of the ways they are doing it is being done poorly? If they want people to get hooked on the game to invest money in it, wouldn't it make sense to have the progression system, the force that will likely compel the majority of people to continue playing the game, to be fun when people are trying the game for free?

Also, you look at probably the most successful free to play shooters of all time, TeamFortress2. What content is only available to people that pay? none. Do free to players feel inconvenienced or forced into paying money to progress? No. But plenty of people still play tons of money in it.

[Altale]

IMO the reason why everyone wants slots to be free is because so many F2P games offer unlimited item slots. The only F2P games I've played are only in the shooter and racing genres, but out of all of the ones I've played, TF2 seems to be the only one that charges you if you want more slots (free > premium steam account), and even then you get more than 10x the slots (35 > 400+) on a purchase of anything in the store.

Personally, I think DE should follow this and put out slots for credits (50-75k per 2 slots?) but only because a ton of other games do the same.

[WhiteNekophus]

why do people have to defend every place they charge and be like, hey, its either this or they charge you up front? Isn't there a difference between doing free to play poorly and doing free to play well? Isn't it possible that some of the ways they are doing it is being done poorly? If they want people to get hooked on the game to invest money in it, wouldn't it make sense to have the progression system, the force that will likely compel the majority of people to continue playing the game, to be fun when people are trying the game for free?

Also, you look at probably the most successful free to play shooters of all time, TeamFortress2. What content is only available to people that pay? none. Do free to players feel inconvenienced or forced into paying money to progress? No. But plenty of people still play tons of money in it.

You are talking like teamfortress2 was free at all, but you shouldn't forget that it has a day that wasn't free to play.....

Seriously, YOU can get every items with game money except slot, and avators.

And also you can buy 2 slot of warframe with platinum you can get in first, what's the problem?

You don't like buying slots and your weapon slot is ran out? oh then sell weapons that you don't like -.-

EDIT:Personally talking, I want slots for free too, but...meh.

Edited January 25, 2013 by WhiteNekophus

[UkyoSonoda]

Well playing many F2P MMORPG's often your inventory space is limited and you are given the option of buying more. However alot of them also have smaller slot boosters available in the game that a player can acquire by doing quests or farming in game.

[V1RTU5]

i think everything (exept skins) should be free. do i think it should be a hand out where every1 gets the stuff in an hour, no. but as a f2p gamer it sucks to see the guy next to you decked out but if you know a month of grinding can get you that same set... its that much more rewarding.

sence this has gone way off topic im hoping this gets re-named or closed

Edited January 26, 2013 by V1RTU5

[Disthe]

You are talking like teamfortress2 was free at all, but you shouldn't forget that it has a day that wasn't free to play.....

Seriously, YOU can get every items with game money except slot, and avators.

And also you can buy 2 slot of warframe with platinum you can get in first, what's the problem?

You don't like buying slots and your weapon slot is ran out? oh then sell weapons that you don't like -.-

EDIT:Personally talking, I want slots for free too, but...meh.

+1

PLAYERS CAN ENJOY ANY IN GAME CONTENT IN FREE but not the slots that's the bottom line of Warframe also a profit protection of DE. 20 pt for a warframe slot and 12 pt for a weapon slot, that's fair enough for a such great game!

Enjoy!