Overpowered players

[Fuzzy-Bunny]

I've seen a lot of threads and people commenting about overpowered enemies and their broken scaling, but it almost feels like everyone is just ignoring the pink elephant in the room. Overpowered and cheesy enemies are merely a symptom of another problem.

That problem is that player weapons and powers are way overpowered. Not only is there power creep with each new weapons released, the biggest problem IMO is the weapon modding system. It allows for things like 100x damage increase with the right mods and that's just from weapon mods. Factor in warframe damage boosting abilities and it's easily 1000x damage increase. The result is trivialization of all non endless missions which forces experienced players to either stroll around the map for half an hour so enemies can actually damage them or play sortie and try to out cheese those broken enemies.

The solution would be to fix the modding system so that it actually serves the player play style and is actually skill indexed and not merely flat damage booster.

• Mods like seration need to go. They add nothing to the game other than being resource sinks.
• Multishot mods also need to use extra ammo. There is no reason not to equip them now and they basically cheat the ingame ammo system.
• Elemental damage mods should convert existing damage to their element. Something like converting 40% of stock damage to their element while adding 20% bonus (max rank). This would also have the side effect of making the physical damage type mods viable.
• Add skill indexed mods. These mods would replace mods like serration. They would work by awarding advanced use of game mechanics and different playstyles forcing players to actually improve their skills instead of just bullet hosing enemies until they die.
• Rework crits. What are crits? Why would there be a % chance of doing more damage? Aren't crits supposed to be extra damage from hitting enemy vitals? Crits would be fine in MMO's with no first person aim, but warframe has that as well as body part damage multipliers. In the end crits serve no purpose other than another flat layer of damage and rewarding headshots.

The other problem are warframe powers. A lot of warframe powers completely disable or outright kill our enemies and for this reason they are supposed to be limited by energy. Powers are supposed to be used sparingly to enhance our play style and get out of tough situations. Unfortunately DE essentially broke their own energy system and now spamming powers has become the norm. It's actually entirely possible to get through non-endless missions without ever using weapons and still do your fair share of damage. Skill spamming also forces DE to give us cheesy enemies to counter our cheese and that's how we got nullifiers, bursas, eximuses,...

So how could DE fix the energy system?

• Nerf efficiency mods. Reducing the cost of skills to 1/4 is the biggest reason why skills are so spammable. What's worse is that this comes with little to no drawbacks which can be countered by duration mods. Efficiency mods are currently the norm since they basically remove the limit on casting. I suggest giving streamline and fleeting expertise more drawbacks and let them do exactly as their names imply. Force the player to decide between a weaker (streamlined) spammable build or more powerful builds.
• Nerf energy vampire. Energy vampire was OP before but with the recent rework of awarding the remaining energy on kill it has become broken. EV should be reverted back to it's original form.
• Rework Trinity. Not only does trinity outperform any other support frame in healing and damage resistance, she can also serve as an infinite energy generator at the same time. And as if that wasn't enough she can also face tank pretty much anything.
• Limit the restores. Limit restores on each revive so the players can't just spam them or give them a cooldown.

So what would the effects of implementing these changes be? For starters the star map would become interesting again. Player skill would actually become a bigger factor which would add more room for growth and increase replayability. Ammo economy and energy management would become important again. Players could choose between modding for physical or elemental damage. DE could remove or nerf cheesy enemies since they would no longer be necessary. Endgame content could be rebalanced so enemies are no longer bullet sponge demigods that players currently don't bother killing if not necessary.

 

I would appreciate any feedback so don't hold back.

Edit: People seem to think that I'm advocating nerfing warframe and weapon damage without addressing the enemy stats, but that couldn't be further from the truth.  What I want is to keep the players engaged and challenged. Camping and spamming skills or cheesing your way through with copious CC and damage resistance is neither fun or engaging. Same goes for enemies with their nullifiers and debuffing auras. So I'm saying both should be rebalanced so players and enemies don't have to keep trying to out cheese each other.

Edit 2: Removing serration and lowering bonuses from elemental mods would only serve to remove insane mod damage scaling. Flat damage mods would be replaced by conditional mods that would only provide their boost by fulfilling their conditions.

Spoiler

Mod examples:

• Head hunter (Rifle) ( 30% bonus damage on head shot or 50% bonus damage on head shot but -20% on body shots) drain 9, rarity: rare
• Strafer (Rifle)(40% bonus damage while airborne) drain 9, rarity : rare
• Group killer (exclusive to launchers/ignis)(10% damage boost for every enemy caught in the blast, -20% base damage) drain 9, rarity :rare
• Speed killer ( guns receive a kill counter with a 3 sec cooldown)(every foe slain increases weapon damage for 5% and is capped at 100%) drain 9, rarity : rare
• Wall turret (Rifle)( 50% bonus damage while wall latching) drain 7, rarity : rare
• Perfectionist (Rifle)( 40% damage bonus, on miss receive -20% damage for 5s) (hitting dead bodies or over penetrations doesn't count as missing) drain 9, rarity :rare
• Marksman (rifle/bow) (grants bonus damage depending on the shooting range) drain 9, rarity: rare
• One shot kill (rifle/bow/launcher) (+50% damage on the first hit, -30% damage on consecutive hits) drain 9, rarity: rare
• Vital strike (Rifle) (at max rank doubles body part difference multipliers (good and bad)) drain 9, rarity : rare
• Speed Demon (Rifle) (grants bonus damage based on your movement speed) drain 9, rarity : rare
• Enduring destruction (Rifle) (grants up to 50% bonus damage the longer you keep firing, caps after 3 seconds) drain 9, rarity: rare
• Point blank (shot gun) (grant bonus damage the closer you fire at the enemy up to 50%) drain 9, rarity : rare
• Emergency holster (pistol) (converts all damage to finisher damage for 3 seconds after unholstering) drain 9, rarity: rare
• One man army (melee) (Grants up to 90% bonus damage based on the number of surrounding enemies in a 10 m radius ) drain 9, rarity : rare
• Revenge block (melee) (Parried damage is absorbed and can be unleashed with a channeling attack) drain 9, rarity : rare
• Raising hate (melee) (each consecutive strike on a single enemy raises melee damage by 15%) drain 9, rarity : rare
• Self destructing rage (melee) (channeling uses health instead of energy) drain 9, rarity: rare
• Opportunist (melee) (+30% bonus damage for every status afflicting the enemy) drain 9, rarity: rare

These are just a few examples. I'm sure DE could come up with many more.

 

 

Edited July 12, 2016 by Fuzzy-Bunny

[(PSN)bonateIIo]

16 minutes ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

So how could DE fix the energy system?

• Nerf efficiency mods. Reducing the cost of skills to 1/4 is the biggest reason why skills are so spammable. What's worse is that this comes with little to no drawbacks which can be countered by duration mods. Efficiency mods are currently the norm since they basically remove the limit on casting. I suggest giving streamline and fleeting expertise more drawbacks and let them do exactly as their names imply. Force the player to decide between a weaker (streamlined) spammable build or more powerful builds.
• Nerf energy vampire. Energy vampire was OP before but with the recent rework of awarding the remaining energy on kill it has become broken. EV should be reverted back to it's original form.
• Rework Trinity. Not only does trinity outperform any other support frame in healing and damage resistance, she can also serve as an infinite energy generator at the same time. And as if that wasn't enough she can also face tank pretty much anything.
• Limit the restores. Limit restores on each revive so the players can't just spam them or give them a cooldown.

Completely agree, would love all of this. in terms of drawbacks, I'd say all of the mods we have need them even primed ones.

[xXduncanXx]

no, just no, we already got a lot of nerfs lately we don't want  more 

 

 

[Markerlight]

How about changing all abilities to have a cooldown and leave energy to be used only for channeling and Quick Thinking?

Mods like Streamline could reduce cooldowns by up to 30%. Bam, done.

Then spam will be no longer be an issue. 

[Shotgunz25]

I believe Trinity id fine. It's just that their need to be more choices for support-like frames.

Trinity is the only frame centered around supporting her teammates.  Oberon is a jack of all trades and not a full on support.

Trinity is balanced in that she has no offense what so ever. There isn't too much you can do for a bad team.

Blessing has been nerfed with a range. So, if they aren't nearby you can't heal them.

Well Of Life is awkward to use when you could just use Blessing.

Link can help but on very high end missions it can be useless since you could be killed far too easily to reliably use it.

Sure, you could use Blessing for it's damage reduction but you'll be burning a lot of energy to keep it up and it could run out as you are taking a lot of damage.

TL;DR

Trinity isn't OP its just that in terms of support variety is limited.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Shotgunz25

[Myscho]

These changes will be good in point where enemies are reworked, not just black holes eating bullets like now

Edited June 15, 2016 by Myscho

[Soketsu]

6 hours ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

Rework crits. What are crits? Why would there be a % chance of doing more damage? Aren't crits supposed to be extra damage from hitting enemy vitals? Crits would be fine in MMO's with no first person aim, but warframe has that as well as body part damage multipliers. In the end crits serve no purpose other than another flat layer of damage and rewarding headshots.

ok at the very beginning i was not ok with that,  you complain about bulletsponge foes ? you seem to lack of knowledge in order to defeat them in a seconde (finish damage, warframe abilities, corrosive statut, corrosive aura ...)

BUT this last sentence confirm it, yes crit are supposed to do extra damage from hitting enemy vitals... BUT this feature already exist ! example when you have *2 crit damage; dealing a critical headshot (this vital part count as *2 last time i checked) deals *8 (special feature of the game, the crit is even more powerful on weakness point) and not *2, dealing just a headshot *2;

won't even comment the rest, your lack of knowledge/ experience don't allow this to be realist for such rework, play more, learn about more of the content of warframe and you may understand why it's not possible/useless and will take too much time

[Fuzzy-Bunny]

4 hours ago, Soketsu said:

ok at the very beginning i was not ok with that,  you complain about bulletsponge foes ? you seem to lack of knowledge in order to defeat them in a seconde (finish damage, warframe abilities, corrosive statut, corrosive aura ...)

BUT this last sentence confirm it, yes crit are supposed to do extra damage from hitting enemy vitals... BUT this feature already exist ! example when you have *2 crit damage; dealing a critical headshot (this vital part count as *2 last time i checked) deals *8 and not *2, dealing just a headshot *2

Are you sure you read anything? I'm saying enemies die too fast and the only place they last longer then a second is in long endless missions, sorties, Lotr,... I also did note that crits affect headshot damage.

 

5 hours ago, Ins. said:

Overpowered enemies aren't a symptom of us being overpowered. It's the other way around. Your suggestions are trash and it shows you do no high level content.

Yeah, I'm sure that's it. Enemies are designed to give us a challenge. If the players have assault rifles that can hit as hard as a tank gun on full auto and have abilities that can completely lock down enemies then the only way to "challenge" us is to give enemies insane EHP and cheese mechanics. You also assume that High level content is the only relevant area of the game.

[kleerr2]

1 hour ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

So what would the effects of implementing these changes be? For starters the star map would become interesting again.

The starchart is underpopulated because there is little to no incentive of running those missions, not because we can trivialize it... Throw all void drops across the starchart and watch it explode with players...

[kleerr2]

2 minutes ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

If the players have assault rifles that can hit as hard as a tank gun on full auto and have abilities that can completely lock down enemies then the only way to "challenge" us is to give enemies insane EHP and cheese mechanics.

You could not be more wrong than that. There are plenty of ways to challenge(like really challenge) us players. Explicitly better AI/Movement/Dodging/Special conditions etc...

[Relentless.Zen]

4 hours ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

Is mindlessly oneshoting enemies and spamming abilities your idea of fun?

There are enough other games out there. Play another where you cant do it! And yes i have fun oneshooting enemies till 40mins of any survival. And i still have fun till 1h40min where i need more shots to kill heavier units. This game is fine. That overpowerdness is what makes this game to what it is.

[Fuzzy-Bunny]

2 minutes ago, kleerr2 said:

You could not be more wrong than that. There are plenty of ways to challenge(like really challenge) us players. Explicitly better AI/Movement/Dodging/Special conditions etc...

Don't get me wrong, I think the AI in warframe is pretty pathetic, but what is the point in improving the AI if the enemies get oneshoted or the players simply spam abilities to kill or completely disable enemies? How is the enemy going to "dodge" if they're CCed to hell?

[kleerr2]

2 minutes ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

Don't get me wrong, I think the AI in warframe is pretty pathetic, but what is the point in improving the AI if the enemies get oneshoted or the players simply spam abilities to kill or completely disable enemies? How is the enemy going to "dodge" if they're CCed to hell?

Let me ask you this then:

How will you oneshot an enemy that has high dodge and mobility, how will you kill something you cannot even hit? Same thing with CC, how will you cc the enemy if the enemy has the mobility/dodging that allows them to move outside of your skill's effect radius?

[--Q--uaint]

2 minutes ago, kleerr2 said:

how will you cc the enemy if the enemy has the mobility/dodging that allows them to move outside of your skill's effect radius?

How will you realistically fight any kind of enemy that can move 50 meters in the casting time of Rhino Stomp? Even worse, Reckoning's CC doesn't even have a cast time so evasion is moot anyhow.

You can say those are expensive abilities; EV fixes that problem, and Zenurik probably would as well.

[-CM-Emptiness]

First of all, change that title, it implies we as the players are OP when its really our gear.

Second, I believe DE is already planning all or most of this. We have polished up player survivability. Now, the developers should look at reworking the enemies, and finally player damage output. If you do it before enemy-rework the system will be in further unbalance than its current state, since we will be vulnerable to both one-shots and unable to reach damage output levels to effectively complete some of the more difficult content.

Balance is two-sided. I've seen many changes applied player-side, but I haven't come across any substantial reworks to enemies at all. The threads you refer to are irrelevant when those complaints don't make their way into the game, and instead we already and will continue to experience many 'reworks' relating to your proposed issue.

[Fuzzy-Bunny]

Just now, kleerr2 said:

Let me ask you this then:

How will you oneshot an enemy that has high dodge and mobility, how will you kill something you cannot even hit? Same thing with CC, how will you cc the enemy if the enemy has the mobility/dodging that allows them to move outside of your skill's effect radius?

How will the enemy know about your ability radius? Are they clairvoyant? What if they're behind a door/corner/whatever and don't see you? Once they are CCed they are pretty much helpless. Do you also expect the heavily armored grineer or mindless infested to actively dodge?

[bad4youLT]

1 hour ago, Markerlight said:

How about changing all abilities to have a cooldown and leave energy to be used only for channeling and Quick Thinking?

Mods like Streamline could reduce cooldowns by up to 30%. Bam, done.

Then spam will be no longer be an issue. 

 were was time when cooldown existed ( long timr ago ) it didnt work , people didnt like it so DE chancged system to energy and said no more cooldowns , ever .

 

Now back to the subject:

I very much enjoy powercreep it gives this flavor balanced game doesnts , look at planetside 2 , every gun and class is perfectly balanced were to the point what you have no disire or need to get/unlockn ew gear , if this would happen to warframe Id quit , were would be no reason to play if every frame and gun would have equile status .

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

*cough* This thread is going to get a loooot of hate. But, at the risk of sounding civil...

OP, the devs have said repeatedly (even in the most recent devstream) that Tenno mowing down enemies in massive numbers is not an unintended consequence. They want the player to have that feeling of power. Tenno are beings created to kill an enemy that the Empire couldn't stand against, and even the Empire is gone. The Corpus and Grineer may be warmongers now, but they're still just normal humans and half-a-brain clones. I've pictured the sort of game balance you're suggesting myself, where mooks take more than one hit to kill, but that's just not the kind of game DE set out to make.

Overpowered players are only overpowered for what is considered early- and mid-game content. The game is currently balanced around lv50 enemies, but is being rebalanced around lv100 enemies. No offense, but by your arguments, it sounds like you don't have much experience with enemies in that level range. Stay in T4 survival for an hour or more and you'll see things a little differently. Those enemies are only lv80 and will become nearly impossible for you to kill without planning and highly min/maxed gear. As powerful as endgame enemies are, you need to be able to slaughter mooks quickly, because otherwise focused fire will down even tanks in seconds.

Also, you're dramatically underestimating the damage potential of weapon mods. You get +160% damage just from a maxed Serration. Mods can easily add 1000% to a weapon's base damage with a few forma. A massive game-wide stat crunch is planned, potentially involving the removal of some crucial mods, but not for the reason you're suggesting. The inflated numbers just make the game difficult for DE to balance according to their own intentions.

Edited June 15, 2016 by (PS4)BlitzKeir

[Redslayer230]

 

4 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

 were was time when cooldown existed ( long timr ago ) it didnt work , people didnt like it so DE chancged system to energy and said no more cooldowns , ever .

 

Now back to the subject:

I very much enjoy powercreep it gives this flavor balanced game doesnts , look at planetside 2 , every gun and class is perfectly balanced were to the point what you have no disire or need to get/unlockn ew gear , if this would happen to warframe Id quit , were would be no reason to play if every frame and gun would have equile status .

Thank you, i needed this 

[kleerr2]

3 minutes ago, ChronoEclipse said:

How will you realistically fight any kind of enemy that can move 50 meters in the casting time of Rhino Stomp? Even worse, Reckoning's CC doesn't even have a cast time so evasion is moot anyhow.

You can say those are expensive abilities; EV fixes that problem, and Zenurik probably would as well.

Ofc it is not going to be a constant -_-

What im saying is that if the enemy has a better AI which notes the abilities of the tenno that are being used can attempt to dodge, or move away from. Ofc moving away from a 1 sec 60m stun is not possible, BUTT not every ability has such a design, right?

4 minutes ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

How will the enemy know about your ability radius? Are they clairvoyant? What if they're behind a door/corner/whatever and don't see you? Once they are CCed they are pretty much helpless. Do you also expect the heavily armored grineer or mindless infested to actively dodge?

They don't need to know your ability radious per say, they just need to want to try and avoid being caught in an expanding/present tenno ability, instead of mindlessly walking right into it... duh... Ofc the enemy has to be aware something is about to happen to them, is this not my point?  And the Manic Bombard wants to have a word with you...

[Alma_Elma]

2 hours ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

I've seen a lot of threads and people commenting about overpowered enemies and their broken scaling, but it almost feels like everyone is just ignoring the pink elephant in the room. Overpowered and cheesy enemies are merely a symptom of another problem.

That problem is that player weapons and powers are way overpowered. Not only is there power creep with each new weapons released, the biggest problem IMO is the weapon modding system. It allows for things like 100x damage increase with the right mods and that's just from weapon mods. Factor in warframe damage boosting abilities and it's easily 1000x damage increase. The result is trivialization of all non endless missions which forces experienced players to either stroll around the map for half an hour so enemies can actually damage them or play sortie and try to out cheese those broken enemies.

The solution would be to fix the modding system so that it actually serves the player play style and is actually skill indexed and not merely flat damage booster.

• Mods like seration need to go. They add nothing to the game other than being resource sinks.
• Multishot mods also need to use extra ammo. There is no reason not to equip them now and they basically cheat the ingame ammo system.
• Elemental damage mods should convert existing damage to their element. Something like converting 40% of stock damage to their element while adding 20% bonus (max rank). This would also have the side effect of making the physical damage type mods viable.
• Add skill indexed mods. These mods would award certain play styles and force players to actually improve their skills instead of just bullet hosing enemies until they die.
• Rework crits. What are crits? Why would there be a % chance of doing more damage? Aren't crits supposed to be extra damage from hitting enemy vitals? Crits would be fine in MMO's with no first person aim, but warframe has that as well as body part damage multipliers. In the end crits serve no purpose other than another flat layer of damage and rewarding headshots.

The other problem are warframe powers. A lot of warframe powers completely disable or outright kill our enemies and for this reason they are supposed to be limited by energy. Powers are supposed to be used sparingly to enhance our play style and get out of tough situations. Unfortunately DE essentially broke their own energy system and now spamming powers has become the norm. It's actually entirely possible to get through non-endless missions without ever using weapons and still do your fair share of damage. Skill spamming also forces DE to give us cheesy enemies to counter our cheese and that's how we got nullifiers, bursas, eximuses,...

So how could DE fix the energy system?

• Nerf efficiency mods. Reducing the cost of skills to 1/4 is the biggest reason why skills are so spammable. What's worse is that this comes with little to no drawbacks which can be countered by duration mods. Efficiency mods are currently the norm since they basically remove the limit on casting. I suggest giving streamline and fleeting expertise more drawbacks and let them do exactly as their names imply. Force the player to decide between a weaker (streamlined) spammable build or more powerful builds.
• Nerf energy vampire. Energy vampire was OP before but with the recent rework of awarding the remaining energy on kill it has become broken. EV should be reverted back to it's original form.
• Rework Trinity. Not only does trinity outperform any other support frame in healing and damage resistance, she can also serve as an infinite energy generator at the same time. And as if that wasn't enough she can also face tank pretty much anything.
• Limit the restores. Limit restores on each revive so the players can't just spam them or give them a cooldown.

So what would the effects of implementing these changes be? For starters the star map would become interesting again. Player skill would actually become a bigger factor which would add more room for growth and increase replayability. Ammo economy and energy management would become important again. Players could choose between modding for physical or elemental damage. DE could remove or nerf cheesy enemies since they would no longer be necessary. Endgame content could be rebalanced so enemies are no longer bullet sponge demigods that players currently don't bother killing if not necessary.

 

I would appreciate any feedback so don't hold back.

I'd like you to complete 3 sorties with your following criteria. If you can't, do a T4 survival run for 60 minutes (40 if you're gonna do it solo).

1. No damage boost mods on your weapons. Physical or critical. Multishot can be included, but you can't mount ammunition mods to simulate your ideal "double ammunition" idea. Because we can't simulate your elemental idea; you're allowed to use LV2 elemental mods or dual stat elemental mods as a substitute.

2. No efficiency mods or Trinities in your group. Get other frames do to your healing or use life strike. And they must be meeting the same criteria as above.

3.Video you and your squad trying to complete the challenge I've laid out.

4. If you manage to win, I'll take your ideas seriously. Otherwise, have fun getting wrecked by the Eximi by the 20 minute mark/second sortie because of this game's unholy scaling system and see why a certain level of cheese is needed in this game to progress.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Alma_Elma

[Fuzzy-Bunny]

 

9 minutes ago, (PS4)BlitzKeir said:

*cough* This thread is going to get a loooot of hate. But, at the risk of sounding civil...

Overpowered players are only overpowered for what is considered early- and mid-game content. The game is currently balanced around lv50 enemies, but is being rebalanced around lv100 enemies. No offense, but by your arguments, it sounds like you don't have much experience with enemies in that level range. Stay in T4 survival for an hour or more and you'll see things a little differently. Those enemies are only lv80 and will become nearly impossible for you to kill without planning and highly min/maxed gear. As powerful as endgame enemies are, you need to be able to slaughter mooks quickly, because otherwise focused fire will down even tanks in seconds.

Endless missions are not supposed to be balanced. We're not supposed to stay in T4 for more than an hour. You're talking about Tenno giving the feeling of power, but that pathetic illusion is quickly shattered by 300K EHP bombard that kill you with their homing missiles. Endgame content also excludes most frames and builds/ weapons that are not overpowered or have cheese mechanics.

Quote

Also, you're dramatically underestimating the damage potential of weapon mods. You get +160% damage just from a maxed Serration. Mods can easily add 1000% to a weapon's base damage with a few forma. A massive game-wide stat crunch is planned, potentially involving the removal of some crucial mods, but not for the reason you're suggesting. The inflated numbers make the game difficult for DE to wrangle.

I did note that you can easily increase weapon damage by 10000% =100x and increase that further with warframe powers.

2 minutes ago, Alma_Elma said:

I'd like you to complete 3 sorties with your following criteria. If you can't, do a T4 survival run for 60 minutes.

1. No damage boost mods on your weapons. Physical or critical. Multishot can be included, but you can't mount ammunition mods to simulate your ideal "double ammunition" idea. Because we can't simulate your elemental idea; you're allowed to use LV2 elemental mods or dual stat elemental mods as a substitute.

2. No efficiency mods or Trinities in your group. Get other frames do to your healing or use life strike. And they must be meeting the same criteria as above.

3.Video you and your squad trying to complete the challenge I've laid out.

4. If you manage to win, I'll take your ideas seriously. Otherwise, have fun getting wrecked by the Eximi by the 20 minute mark/second sortie because of this game's unholy scaling system and see why a certain level of cheese is needed in this game to progress.

I did say that enemies would have to be rebalanced as well and there would no longer be any need for cheese enemies like nullifiers and eximuses with their ridiculous auras.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Fuzzy-Bunny

[Redslayer230]

1 minute ago, Alma_Elma said:

I'd like you to complete 3 sorties with your following criteria. If you can't, do a T4 survival run for 60 minutes.

1. No damage boost mods on your weapons. Physical or critical. Multishot can be included, but you can't mount ammunition mods to simulate your ideal "double ammunition" idea. Because we can't simulate your elemental idea; you're allowed to use LV0 elemental mods as a substitute.

2. No efficiency mods or Trinities in your group. Get other frames do to your healing or use life strike. And they must be meeting the same criteria as above.

3.Video you and your squad trying to complete the challenge I've laid out.

4. If you manage to win, I'll take your ideas seriously. Otherwise, have fun getting wrecked by the Eximi by the 20 minute mark/second sortie because of this game's unholy scaling system and see why a certain level of cheese is needed in this game to progress.

Wow, your challenge is evil!

Like Barney always says when things get out of hand - challenge accepted :D

[Cydro_]

Just now, Alma_Elma said:

I'd like you to complete 3 sorties with your following criteria. If you can't, do a T4 survival run for 60 minutes.

1. No damage boost mods on your weapons. Physical or critical. Multishot can be included, but you can't mount ammunition mods to simulate your ideal "double ammunition" idea. Because we can't simulate your elemental idea; you're allowed to use LV0 elemental mods as a substitute.

2. No efficiency mods or Trinities in your group. Get other frames do to your healing or use life strike. And they must be meeting the same criteria as above.

3.Video you and your squad trying to complete the challenge I've laid out.

4. If you manage to win, I'll take your ideas seriously. Otherwise, have fun getting wrecked by the Eximi by the 20 minute mark/second sortie because of this game's unholy scaling system and see why a certain level of cheese is needed in this game to progress.

You seem to be forgetting that some of these ideas are reality. The multishot 'fix' (multishot causing more ammo to be consumed each shot) is coming. Removal of mods like serration is coming. Of course this isn't as simple as that; weapon scaling is being reworked and changed. I can't be sure, but I'd be surprised if enemy reworks didn't also come soon.

[tmtke]

I can agree with most what op said, though I'm not a 1x year old cod kiddy, neither I'm a noob in warframe. I'd like to have fun again, like when I was starting out 3 years ago. I don't think the AI is bad, it's functionality just completely destroyed by warframe abilities and weapon builds. They have no counter from the enemies side. They just fall like wheat. So, less godmode would result in better and harder enemies (maybe even less of them), a repopulated star chart. This last one clearly needs some rework (as it is in the works supposedly), because the main problem why I'm not playing currently is the mindless farming. The players currently SHOULD play endless missions to have the items they need, so they SHOULD also play ONLY the maps where they can most efficiently farm the needed keys and other items to do the actual farming. This of course leads to the builds players SHOULD have to do this efficiently. Don't you see the problem too? Don't look it as a nerf, look it as rebalancing the game.