Problem with Nyx's passive

[-CM-Hekovashi]

Honestly something like-chance of getting mind control with a small chance for any of her skills, or chance of getting rad proc\mind control on enemy if it's getting to close to her, for like 6-10 meters is far more usefull and fitting her way more that current one. Leterally anything will be more uslefull.

Edited June 22, 2016 by -CM-Hekovashi

[vinx909]

2 minutes ago, Hemmo67 said:

again why take loki?

every power nyx now has has a chance to disarm. if you want to disarm take loki. chaos is now no longer better for damage so why not take irradiating disarm. because heavy units seem to lose their power first her 1st is useless. her second has always been useless. chaos is at most just as good as irradiating disarm. and absorb does the same as invisibility, makes you dodge all damage. but invis can do more and is cheaper.

and we should not need to compare these powers this deeply. every frame is supposed to be unique. that is one of the big selling points of warframe. two frames being so similar is a huge problem.

[vinx909]

5 minutes ago, -CM-Hekovashi said:

Honestly something like-chance of getting mind control with a small chance for any of her skills, or chance of getting rad proc\mind control on enemy if it's getting to close to her, for like 6-10 meters is far more usefull and fitting her way more that current one. Leterally anything will be more uslefull.

nothing is literally better.

[1N33DM0N3Y]

LoR records here: http://wf.christx.tw/search.php?id=1n33dm0n3y

Alot maybe be anoyed not to controll heavy Units on normal gamemodes, but Those undisarmed Bombards & Napalm are causing fail or Victory on LoR Hijack part there before they just was blinded by Mirage though walls. (disarming all enemies in LoR is stupid, this will cause more trouble then doing CC)

How ever she is still high valuable on Corpus Excavations (Neptune/Europa above 1000 or Sortie variation) by disarm Corpus techs, mindcontroll Bursas and saving excavors from Pulse granade with absorb all those things @ same time. And dont try to tell a disarm Loki could do this job better. 

DE really know how to balancing Frames for their specific roles, i wish they would doing this for primary & seconday weapons too

[Hemmo67]

40 minutes ago, vinx909 said:

every power nyx now has has a chance to disarm. if you want to disarm take loki. chaos is now no longer better for damage so why not take irradiating disarm. because heavy units seem to lose their power first her 1st is useless. her second has always been useless. chaos is at most just as good as irradiating disarm. and absorb does the same as invisibility, makes you dodge all damage. but invis can do more and is cheaper.

and we should not need to compare these powers this deeply. every frame is supposed to be unique. that is one of the big selling points of warframe. two frames being so similar is a huge problem.

k u do not even know how it works

they lay down weapons after ability is over

and pickup weapons if u recast

so it still sucks? how

[vinx909]

6 minutes ago, Hemmo67 said:

k u do not even know how it works

they lay down weapons after ability is over

and pickup weapons if u recast

so it still sucks? how

yea, tell me how i don't know without telling how it work. baseless statement.

yep, so if you have found a strong unit you can rarely reuse that powerful unit. if he didn't already lose his weapon in the opening chaos.

haven't seen any proof of that. might have to recheck. doesn't help with chaos.

it is still too much the same as loki. 

[vinx909]

17 minutes ago, 1N33DM0N3Y said:

Alot maybe be anoyed not to controll heavy Units on normal gamemodes, but Those undisarmed Bombards & Napalm are causing fail or Victory on LoR Hijack part there before they just was blinded by Mirage though walls. (disarming all enemies in LoR is stupid, this will cause more trouble then doing CC)

How ever she is still high valuable on Corpus Excavations (Neptune/Europa above 1000 or Sortie variation) by disarm Corpus techs, mindcontroll Bursas and saving excavors from Pulse granade with absorb all those things @ same time. And dont try to tell a disarm Loki could do this job better. 

DE really know how to balancing Frames for their specific roles, i wish they would doing this for primary & seconday weapons too

a game should be ballanced for everything. not just one game mode.

i never said she was bad. but the passive is bad and doesn't work with her theme.

really? banshee isn't too weak. or ember, or hydroid, or limbo or nekros or oberon or zephyr.

[Hemmo67]

12 minutes ago, vinx909 said:

yea, tell me how i don't know without telling how it work. baseless statement.

yep, so if you have found a strong unit you can rarely reuse that powerful unit. if he didn't already lose his weapon in the opening chaos.

haven't seen any proof of that. might have to recheck. doesn't help with chaos.

it is still too much the same as loki. 

did u ever mind controll dude disarmed by nyx? magicly they get their gun back

(incase u couldn't understand my last comment)

[1N33DM0N3Y]

16 minutes ago, vinx909 said:

really? banshee isn't too weak. or ember, or hydroid, or limbo or nekros or oberon or zephyr.

They all have their spott & use

Banche speed run T4 Def thx (sound quake augment), or Draco Nuking

Ember invasion speed extermination

Hydroid for Pifering looting

Limbo Sortie Def + Sorie Rescue

Necros Looting + Summon bad Op enemies shadows like Nullis  & Conculist Sentient

Oberon for Jordas raid healing with infinite range

Zephyr Tonkor bombing.

But still Oberon & Zephyr needs heavy rework for more utility.

This seen now goes now alittle bit offtopic

 

Edited June 22, 2016 by 1N33DM0N3Y

[vinx909]

4 minutes ago, Hemmo67 said:

did u ever mind controll dude disarmed by nyx? magicly they get their gun back

(incase u couldn't understand my last comment)

ofcourse i got the point. but i don't know if it is true, i haven't tested it.

[vinx909]

1 minute ago, 1N33DM0N3Y said:

They all have their spott & use

Banche speed run T4 Def thx (sound quake augment), or Draco Nuking

Ember invasion speed extermination

Hydroid for Pifering looting

Limbo Sortie Def + Sorie Rescue

Necros Looting + Summon bad &#! shadows like Nullis & Conculist Sentient

Oberon for Jordas raid healing with infinite range

Zephyr Tonkor bombing.

But still Oberon & Zephyr needs heavy rework for more utility.

 

they all have something they can do. but you got to agree that these are bottom of the barrel, something you don't want if they are basically you classes. it is like if tf2s scout was in every worse then other characters.

[1N33DM0N3Y]

Not @ all u are talking about your selfes

i treat them equal they are tools to get the job done there is no favorite toy for all situation.

There is also no favored variation too. I sill use normal  also primed so normal nova for speeding and Nova Prime for Slowing simple like that.

 

 

[PikeOrShield]

7 hours ago, vinx909 said:

once again, why not take loki?

Because Chaos is objectively better than Irradiating Disarm.

Chaos has a base range of 25 meters, a duration of 25 seconds, and an energy cost of 75.

Irradiating Disarm has a base range of 20 meters, a duration of 9 seconds, and an energy cost of 100.

Chaos also raises the threat level enemys perceive each other at, something a radiation proc does not do.  Irradiating Disarm also costs an extra mod slot.

[bubbabenali]

9 minutes ago, PikeOrShield said:

Because Chaos is objectively better than Irradiating Disarm.

Chaos has a base range of 25 meters, a duration of 25 seconds, and an energy cost of 75.

Irradiating Disarm has a base range of 20 meters, a duration of 9 seconds, and an energy cost of 100.

Chaos also raises the threat level enemys perceive each other at, something a radiation proc does not do.  Irradiating Disarm also costs an extra mod slot.

Radiaton Procs aren't negated by Nullifier bubbles.

Disarm lasts indefinite and so turns the enemies effectively into target dummies.

Loki (Prime) has a way bigger energie pool so the higher cost isn't important.

Loki has a free mod slot open on his builds anyways.

Edited June 22, 2016 by bubbabenali

[TheMortemShadow]

As a fellow Nyx player, maybe if I point out how this passive hurts her, it will lead to change.

1. Although DE said the passive occurs after Mind Control ends, there's still the problem that many Nyx players tend to Mind Control an enemy they've already Mind Controlled, hurting her in that situation. I can't explain how much fun it was having a "pet" Eximus Bomard with you for almost an entire mission, but now the number of times that enemy gets disarmed AFTER I Mind Controlled them the first or second time and now it's useless to Mind Control them besides their eximus, which you might not have with a regulr Bombard, but you may have the Mind Control augment.
2. Again with Mind Control, a tactic that I see players use (or in desperation) is using any ability of Nyx's before and then Mind Controlling an enemy, For example, Absorb is great at knocking down enemies, making it much easier to Mind Control that enemy on the ground, but with the new passive Absorb can disarm the enemy before you get a chance to Mind Control them, thus lowering the simple synergy that Nyx had with her abilities.
3. It lowers the potential killing of Chaos. I bold potential because Chaos is Chaos, although enemies won't always kill other enemies, they will do so much more with a weapon rather than being disarmed. I remember testing the new passive in a T4 Defense and the number of times a Heavy unit lost his weapon was unbearable because I could see that enemy killing everything in sight if it wasn't disarmed. Although Chaos seem to disarm only a handful of enemies at a time, it still creates unwanted situations where an enemy is disarmed when a Nyx didn't want them to. This also goes back to using an ability before using Mind Control.
4. Now, a main concern of this passive is pretty simple and all Nyx players see it: it's too similar to Loki. Although we are comparing Chaos to Loki's Augment, the fact that remains is the two abilities are so similar now that it's impossible to tell the difference other than Nyx only being a chance to disarm them. All other Warframes can have similar abilities, like Loki's Invisibility and Ivara's Prowl, but they always have different mechanics that make it the Warframe's own ability, like Ivara being slowed and being able to pickpocket enemies. Chaos was great compared to Irridiating Disarm because it allowed for enemies to kill each other much faster compared to Loki, but now it seems like I'm playing Loki when I use Chaos and I can't change that, and many other players notice it too. Chaos is too similar to Irridiating Disarm and that's a problem, especially when I see many players already calling her Loki 2.0. When Irridiating Disarm was first introduced, Chaos was still different because it didn't disarm enemies; however, it now does, even though it's only a handful compared to Loki disarming all of them, it's still too similar.
5. After reviewing all the passives, Nyx's is the only one that actually hurt her in several different playstyles and situations, which doesn't make sense. All the other passives can allow for great playstyles, but it won't hurt other playstyles. For example, a Sniper Loki benefits amazingly from his passive, but to other playstyles it can be useless to them, but that doesn't mean it hurts them.  If Nyx received an ability rework, then yes that would make sense, but this is a passive that now requires most Nyx players to completely rework her and change their playstyles for playing her. The only playstyle that benefits from this is an Absorb (or Nuke) Nyx or a Psychic Bolts Nyx, a Chaos Nyx's (who usually uses Mind Control) effectiveness is hurt and is now being compared to Loki on terms of being useful. A passive shouldn't nerf two abilities, not even one. A passive shouldn't hurt a Warframe in ANY playstyle you wish to play them as, instead it should help you in certain situations instead of hindering you on many of them. Yes, there will be playstyles that will benefit more from this passive, but it still shouldn't hurt another player who wishes to play in his or her's playstyle. You can build your build for the passive to be more effective, but should that hurt other builds who don't really need the passive? From what most players are saying, no it shouldn't.
6. According to the Wiki, " Passives are special traits possessed by Warframes that provide them unique abilities or bonuses without requiring energy" Although this passive itself doesn't require energy, the abilities in order for the passive to be activated cost energy, which is enough for it to go against that definition.

 

Edit: #1. I recently saw someone say recasting Mind Control on an enemy who is disarmed will make them get their weapon back, I will test this later as I never did since I didn't see a point in Mind Controlling a disarmed enemy. My apologies if this is correct, but even if it is, I ask for people to try and argue against the other points I have made.

Edit: #2 I tested it to see if Mind Controlling an enemy after them being disarmed would make them receive their weapon back and sadly, it didn't. I'm sorry to those who say this passive is a good passive, maybe with your build or playstyle it is, but you can't deny the several problems or cons with this passive.

 

Edited June 23, 2016 by TheMortemShadow

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

9 hours ago, PikeOrShield said:

Because Chaos is objectively better than Irradiating Disarm.

Chaos has a base range of 25 meters, a duration of 25 seconds, and an energy cost of 75.

Irradiating Disarm has a base range of 20 meters, a duration of 9 seconds, and an energy cost of 100.

Chaos also raises the threat level enemys perceive each other at, something a radiation proc does not do.  Irradiating Disarm also costs an extra mod slot.

Except Disarm completely neutralizes most enemies and gets large groups of enemies together in a small area ready to be nuked while chaos only has a chance to neutralize then and nothing stops the enemies from shooting at you or attacking you regardless

[vinx909]

11 hours ago, TheMortemShadow said:

As a fellow Nyx player, maybe if I point out how this passive hurts her, it will lead to change.

1. Although DE said the passive occurs after Mind Control ends, there's still the problem that many Nyx players tend to Mind Control an enemy they've already Mind Controlled, hurting her in that situation. I can't explain how much fun it was having a "pet" Eximus Bomard with you for almost an entire mission, but now the number of times that enemy gets disarmed AFTER I Mind Controlled them the first or second time and now it's useless to Mind Control them besides their eximus, which you might not have with a regulr Bombard, but you may have the Mind Control augment.
2. Again with Mind Control, a tactic that I see players use (or in desperation) is using any ability of Nyx's before and then Mind Controlling an enemy, For example, Absorb is great at knocking down enemies, making it much easier to Mind Control that enemy on the ground, but with the new passive Absorb can disarm the enemy before you get a chance to Mind Control them, thus lowering the simple synergy that Nyx had with her abilities.
3. It lowers the potential killing of Chaos. I bold potential because Chaos is Chaos, although enemies won't always kill other enemies, they will do so much more with a weapon rather than being disarmed. I remember testing the new passive in a T4 Defense and the number of times a Heavy unit lost his weapon was unbearable because I could see that enemy killing everything in sight if it wasn't disarmed. Although Chaos seem to disarm only a handful of enemies at a time, it still creates unwanted situations where an enemy is disarmed when a Nyx didn't want them to. This also goes back to using an ability before using Mind Control.
4. Now, a main concern of this passive is pretty simple and all Nyx players see it: it's too similar to Loki. Although we are comparing Chaos to Loki's Augment, the fact that remains is the two abilities are so similar now that it's impossible to tell the difference other than Nyx only being a chance to disarm them. All other Warframes can have similar abilities, like Loki's Invisibility and Ivara's Prowl, but they always have different mechanics that make it the Warframe's own ability, like Ivara being slowed and being able to pickpocket enemies. Chaos was great compared to Irridiating Disarm because it allowed for enemies to kill each other much faster compared to Loki, but now it seems like I'm playing Loki when I use Chaos and I can't change that, and many other players notice it too. Chaos is too similar to Irridiating Disarm and that's a problem, especially when I see many players already calling her Loki 2.0. When Irridiating Disarm was first introduced, Chaos was still different because it didn't disarm enemies; however, it now does, even though it's only a handful compared to Loki disarming all of them, it's still too similar.
5. After reviewing all the passives, Nyx's is the only one that actually hurt her in several different playstyles and situations, which doesn't make sense. All the other passives can allow for great playstyles, but it won't hurt other playstyles. For example, a Sniper Loki benefits amazingly from his passive, but to other playstyles it can be useless to them, but that doesn't mean it hurts them.  If Nyx received an ability rework, then yes that would make sense, but this is a passive that now requires most Nyx players to completely rework her and change their playstyles for playing her. The only playstyle that benefits from this is an Absorb (or Nuke) Nyx or a Psychic Bolts Nyx, a Chaos Nyx's (who usually uses Mind Control) effectiveness is hurt and is now being compared to Loki on terms of being useful. A passive shouldn't nerf two abilities, not even one. A passive shouldn't hurt a Warframe in ANY playstyle you wish to play them as, instead it should help you in certain situations instead of hindering you on many of them. Yes, there will be playstyles that will benefit more from this passive, but it still shouldn't hurt another player who wishes to play in his or her's playstyle. You can build your build for the passive to be more effective, but should that hurt other builds who don't really need the passive? From what most players are saying, no it shouldn't.
6. According to the Wiki, " Passives are special traits possessed by Warframes that provide them unique abilities or bonuses without requiring energy" Although this passive itself doesn't require energy, the abilities in order for the passive to be activated cost energy, which is enough for it to go against that definition.

 

Edit: #1. I recently saw someone say recasting Mind Control on an enemy who is disarmed will make them get their weapon back, I will test this later as I never did since I didn't see a point in Mind Controlling a disarmed enemy. My apologies if this is correct, but even if it is, I ask for people to try and argue against the other points I have made.

 

you hit the nail on the head. coudn't agree more.

also from my testing, mind controlled enemies don't get their weapons back.

[MindHoney]

16 hours ago, TheMortemShadow said:

As a fellow Nyx player, maybe if I point out how this passive hurts her, it will lead to change.

1. Although DE said the passive occurs after Mind Control ends, there's still the problem that many Nyx players tend to Mind Control an enemy they've already Mind Controlled, hurting her in that situation. I can't explain how much fun it was having a "pet" Eximus Bomard with you for almost an entire mission, but now the number of times that enemy gets disarmed AFTER I Mind Controlled them the first or second time and now it's useless to Mind Control them besides their eximus, which you might not have with a regulr Bombard, but you may have the Mind Control augment.
2. Again with Mind Control, a tactic that I see players use (or in desperation) is using any ability of Nyx's before and then Mind Controlling an enemy, For example, Absorb is great at knocking down enemies, making it much easier to Mind Control that enemy on the ground, but with the new passive Absorb can disarm the enemy before you get a chance to Mind Control them, thus lowering the simple synergy that Nyx had with her abilities.
3. It lowers the potential killing of Chaos. I bold potential because Chaos is Chaos, although enemies won't always kill other enemies, they will do so much more with a weapon rather than being disarmed. I remember testing the new passive in a T4 Defense and the number of times a Heavy unit lost his weapon was unbearable because I could see that enemy killing everything in sight if it wasn't disarmed. Although Chaos seem to disarm only a handful of enemies at a time, it still creates unwanted situations where an enemy is disarmed when a Nyx didn't want them to. This also goes back to using an ability before using Mind Control.
4. Now, a main concern of this passive is pretty simple and all Nyx players see it: it's too similar to Loki. Although we are comparing Chaos to Loki's Augment, the fact that remains is the two abilities are so similar now that it's impossible to tell the difference other than Nyx only being a chance to disarm them. All other Warframes can have similar abilities, like Loki's Invisibility and Ivara's Prowl, but they always have different mechanics that make it the Warframe's own ability, like Ivara being slowed and being able to pickpocket enemies. Chaos was great compared to Irridiating Disarm because it allowed for enemies to kill each other much faster compared to Loki, but now it seems like I'm playing Loki when I use Chaos and I can't change that, and many other players notice it too. Chaos is too similar to Irridiating Disarm and that's a problem, especially when I see many players already calling her Loki 2.0. When Irridiating Disarm was first introduced, Chaos was still different because it didn't disarm enemies; however, it now does, even though it's only a handful compared to Loki disarming all of them, it's still too similar.
5. After reviewing all the passives, Nyx's is the only one that actually hurt her in several different playstyles and situations, which doesn't make sense. All the other passives can allow for great playstyles, but it won't hurt other playstyles. For example, a Sniper Loki benefits amazingly from his passive, but to other playstyles it can be useless to them, but that doesn't mean it hurts them.  If Nyx received an ability rework, then yes that would make sense, but this is a passive that now requires most Nyx players to completely rework her and change their playstyles for playing her. The only playstyle that benefits from this is an Absorb (or Nuke) Nyx or a Psychic Bolts Nyx, a Chaos Nyx's (who usually uses Mind Control) effectiveness is hurt and is now being compared to Loki on terms of being useful. A passive shouldn't nerf two abilities, not even one. A passive shouldn't hurt a Warframe in ANY playstyle you wish to play them as, instead it should help you in certain situations instead of hindering you on many of them. Yes, there will be playstyles that will benefit more from this passive, but it still shouldn't hurt another player who wishes to play in his or her's playstyle. You can build your build for the passive to be more effective, but should that hurt other builds who don't really need the passive? From what most players are saying, no it shouldn't.
6. According to the Wiki, " Passives are special traits possessed by Warframes that provide them unique abilities or bonuses without requiring energy" Although this passive itself doesn't require energy, the abilities in order for the passive to be activated cost energy, which is enough for it to go against that definition.

 

Edit: #1. I recently saw someone say recasting Mind Control on an enemy who is disarmed will make them get their weapon back, I will test this later as I never did since I didn't see a point in Mind Controlling a disarmed enemy. My apologies if this is correct, but even if it is, I ask for people to try and argue against the other points I have made.

 

Honestly this should be made into a new post by it self, thumb up for putting the problem in better words.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

On 6/22/2016 at 4:21 AM, PikeOrShield said:

Enemy armor outscales enemy damage by such a ridiculous margin it no longer matters unless you're running x4 CP.  Even then, any sane person wouldn't rely on poor AI and mediocre damage to do the killing for them.  While it may be fun watching a Scorch wipe their allies with an Ignis on Draco, it's not a viable strategy for late game.

But it's still fun :(

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

The psychic bolts should have the chance to disarm enemies, and Nyx should have a new passive, like a reduced threat level against all enemies (affected by range and such)

[TheMortemShadow]

6 hours ago, vinx909 said:

you hit the nail on the head. coudn't agree more.

also from my testing, mind controlled enemies don't get their weapons back.

Yep, I tested it and they never received their weapons back, so to whoever said that, I believe they need to do more testing themselves.