Bizzaro21 Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 1 minute ago, Inarticulate said: "Zero percent" is probably the point at which your Warframe's functions begin to degrade from low oxygen supply. It doesn't have to specifically mean zero air, it's just the critical point where you start to lose function. Holding your breath doesn't really get more oxygen into your system (especially when the air is already that thin). It just prevents other things (like water) from getting in while your body continues to run out of air. Maybe the Lotus teleports all of her remaining life support capsules back out because it's-time-to-go-so-get-your-butt-moving. well kubrows arent affected and neither are sentinels, even living ones like wyrm or djinn, why wold the warframe? its some biomechanical dude is affected by air loss? i do know that, but i mean, the operator instantly rage quits when it hits 0%? even if he is that fussy, given all the survivals tenno did, and that lotus "expected they may try this" he should bring oxygen tanks with him, and I guess u hold some air in is gonna get u further than just breathing it out and sucking in nothingness.. oh yea? so she risks us losing functionality and potentially dying on the way out, so we leave? she cold`ve been nicer at that....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarticulate Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Just now, Bizzaro21 said: well kubrows arent affected and neither are sentinels, even living ones like wyrm or djinn, why wold the warframe? its some biomechanical dude is affected by air loss? i do know that, but i mean, the operator instantly rage quits when it hits 0%? even if he is that fussy, given all the survivals tenno did, and that lotus "expected they may try this" he should bring oxygen tanks with him, and I guess u hold some air in is gonna get u further than just breathing it out and sucking in nothingness.. oh yea? so she risks us losing functionality and potentially dying on the way out, so we leave? she cold`ve been nicer at that....... Maybe Warframes just need a higher saturation of oxygen to function properly? (Even from a game mechanics perspective, I think Kubrows and sentinels should be made to be affected.) I don't listen to the Operator's in-mission quotes. Most of them don't make any sense in context to begin with, so I don't have high hopes for the ones that I've never heard before. Maybe the Lotus trusts that you'll be able to reach extraction okay. High expectations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizzaro21 Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Just now, Inarticulate said: Maybe Warframes just need a higher saturation of oxygen to function properly? (Even from a game mechanics perspective, I think Kubrows and sentinels should be made to be affected.) I don't listen to the Operator's in-mission quotes. Most of them don't make any sense in context to begin with, so I don't have high hopes for the ones that I've never heard before. Maybe the Lotus trusts that you'll be able to reach extraction okay. High expectations? em, a bimech. being needs less air than a dog? i meant the operative we are covering... oh yea? she never risks us, she tells us to GTFO when G3 appear tho she knows we own them everytime, she came down herself to or ship (dont know how she got in) just to save a singe Tenno, and she`d risk 4 of them on such a stupid context? and anyway again, thru her life, somebody must`ve messed up good and died on the way out (or u know got a bombard 5 rooms away shoot him) and died, she could just tell the operative to get out and tell us to gtfo as well, we always obey her anyway, why is she forcing us out this time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarticulate Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 1 minute ago, Bizzaro21 said: em, a bimech. being needs less air than a dog? More air. The oxygen saturation at 0% life support would be enough to sustain the dog and the floaty thing, but not enough to support a Warframe. 3 minutes ago, Bizzaro21 said: i meant the operative we are covering... The operative is probably less durable than we are. Can't breathe, f*** it I'm out. 4 minutes ago, Bizzaro21 said: oh yea? she never risks us, she tells us to GTFO when G3 appear tho she knows we own them everytime, she came down herself to or ship (dont know how she got in) just to save a singe Tenno, and she`d risk 4 of them on such a stupid context? and anyway again, thru her life, somebody must`ve messed up good and died on the way out (or u know got a bombard 5 rooms away shoot him) and died, she could just tell the operative to get out and tell us to gtfo as well, we always obey her anyway, why is she forcing us out this time? Life support capsules are probably not terribly cheap. (A failed mission returns us back to our ship safe and sound, after all, (no idea how, but it does) whereas a failed G3 means there's a Grustrag Bolt stuck to you until you can get it off.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vahnkiljoy Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 What I hate is just how RNG dependant the damn o2 on kills can be, I can murder tons of enemies and not get a single canister, or kill a ton and get maybe 1, or they seem to drop off every kill, there needs to be a damn middle ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizzaro21 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 3 hours ago, Inarticulate said: More air. The oxygen saturation at 0% life support would be enough to sustain the dog and the floaty thing, but not enough to support a Warframe. The operative is probably less durable than we are. Can't breathe, f*** it I'm out. Life support capsules are probably not terribly cheap. (A failed mission returns us back to our ship safe and sound, after all, (no idea how, but it does) whereas a failed G3 means there's a Grustrag Bolt stuck to you until you can get it off.) the ship is all empty, therei s no air for either of us.... well ye but anyone can hold on for a while, and again, u ignored the "bring oxygen tank with him" part... true, but cant she get them back once we are already out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrickshotMcGee Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 As an exclusively solo player, I can confirm that until about 30 minutes, enemy spawns aren't really enough to sustain all the time, especially with RNG-based drops. It's tough to crowd-kill for LS when no more than 10-15 enemies spawn at any given time, and from there take their time blocking the spawn rooms so more stuff can't come out. I'm not complaining about not being able to kill stuff fast enough, I'm complaining about there not being enough to kill. Outside of Infested survivals, of course. Always lots of LS there unless your RNG sucks that bad. Life Support is also a stupid requirement for a lifeless hunk of metal and non-living flesh that only moves because the Operator wants it to. How would the Operative we're covering for survive? Does the Lotus give him constant supply? Why, then, could she not feasibly do the same for us, who have an arguably more dangerous job? Why wouldn't every enemy drop it if they also require it to survive? If we can stealthily steal from "heavily-guarded" computer security systems containing top-secret info, why can't they break open boxes and grab stuff without alerting every Grineer troop in existence? It's a gamemode made BEFORE the Second Dream, and was somewhat more understandable before Warframes were just empty suits, but since that's all they are, there's no reason they'd need any form of such support because they are not alive. Honestly, it needs to be reworked because it makes no sense whatsoever after you've played through the lore quests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarticulate Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 6 hours ago, Bizzaro21 said: the ship is all empty, therei s no air for either of us.... well ye but anyone can hold on for a while, and again, u ignored the "bring oxygen tank with him" part... true, but cant she get them back once we are already out? As air gets slowly vented out, you'll suffocate long before the air is completely gone. Once the oxygen density is too low for you to get enough oxygen into your system fast enough to function, you'll suffocate. Clearly, Warframes require a higher oxygen density to function, so your Warframe will suffocate before you pets will. The operative probably has his own personal life support system that has just enough air to sustain him to get to extraction after your life support runs out. The life support capsules that the Lotus drops for us are clearly adding oxygen to the air around us, not to our Warframes specifically, so the operative doesn't need to use his personal life support until the life support keeping the party alive runs out. The Lotus wants you to get your sorry butts out and not waste time activating another life support drop. They're clearly not cheap if she's so stingy with them. 6 hours ago, TrickshotMcGee said: there's no reason they'd need any form of such support because they are not alive. The biological parts of your biomechanical golem are most certainly alive, but may or may not be sentient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizzaro21 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 9 hours ago, Inarticulate said: As air gets slowly vented out, you'll suffocate long before the air is completely gone. Once the oxygen density is too low for you to get enough oxygen into your system fast enough to function, you'll suffocate. Clearly, Warframes require a higher oxygen density to function, so your Warframe will suffocate before you pets will. The operative probably has his own personal life support system that has just enough air to sustain him to get to extraction after your life support runs out. The life support capsules that the Lotus drops for us are clearly adding oxygen to the air around us, not to our Warframes specifically, so the operative doesn't need to use his personal life support until the life support keeping the party alive runs out. The Lotus wants you to get your sorry butts out and not waste time activating another life support drop. They're clearly not cheap if she's so stingy with them still, a full bio or a half bio half mech? also they never do suffocate, u can wait in there 10 minutes, they still function the same and dont lose HP, and why is it so clear that a warframe needs more air? they dont seem affected in space or underwater with archwings though there is nothing for them to breathe... ok fair enough "the longer you fight, the more successful we will be" "we will all share this bounty, hold out as long as you can" besides her wanting to save their price being a lame justification, it doenst make sense unless she has split personality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarticulate Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 On 6/25/2016 at 1:13 PM, Bizzaro21 said: still, a full bio or a half bio half mech? also they never do suffocate, u can wait in there 10 minutes, they still function the same and dont lose HP, and why is it so clear that a warframe needs more air? they dont seem affected in space or underwater with archwings though there is nothing for them to breathe... ok fair enough "the longer you fight, the more successful we will be" "we will all share this bounty, hold out as long as you can" besides her wanting to save their price being a lame justification, it doenst make sense unless she has split personality Archwings are capable of providing life support. It's made rather clear in Mag Prime's codex entry. Space mom can't pamper you forever. You've held out for as long as you can (duly noted by the fact that you've just run out of life support), so it's time to get your butt out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizzaro21 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 36 minutes ago, Inarticulate said: Archwings are capable of providing life support. It's made rather clear in Mag Prime's codex entry. Space mom can't pamper you forever. You've held out for as long as you can (duly noted by the fact that you've just run out of life support), so it's time to get your butt out. well yea but ingame, there is nothing but the wing on its back so unless they breath from their butts, they dont need air to survive there sure, but she wont get u killed to save some credits either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarticulate Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 43 minutes ago, Bizzaro21 said: well yea but ingame, there is nothing but the wing on its back so unless they breath from their butts, they dont need air to survive there There's no reason why you'd need to build a biomechanical golem to respire from its head. The Archwing might just create a confinement field to maintain a volume of air around the Warframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekurama13 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 37 minutes ago, Inarticulate said: There's no reason why you'd need to build a biomechanical golem to respire from its head. The Archwing might just create a confinement field to maintain a volume of air around the Warframe. if thats true than lotus can do the same for survival Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarticulate Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 1 minute ago, thekurama13 said: if thats true than lotus can do the same for survival I'm sure if we could manufacture a life support system that can support a Warframe for the duration of a Survival mission that does not encumber a Warframe, we'd probably already be using them in Survival missions. The fact that we don't implies that the life support systems used on an Archwing are too bulky to use without help from the Archwing's propulsion systems (and the Archwing itself is too heavy to use except in reduced effective gravity). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekurama13 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 1 minute ago, Inarticulate said: I'm sure if we could manufacture a life support system that can support a Warframe for the duration of a Survival mission that does not encumber a Warframe, we'd probably already be using them in Survival missions. The fact that we don't implies that the life support systems used on an Archwing are too bulky to use without help from the Archwing's propulsion systems (and the Archwing itself is too heavy to use except in reduced effective gravity). no since most of the archwing is made for flying. The reason it hasnt been used is because the devs didnt have archwing when they made surv. so they forgot about that plot hole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarticulate Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) 49 minutes ago, thekurama13 said: no since most of the archwing is made for flying. The reason it hasnt been used is because the devs didnt have archwing when they made surv. so they forgot about that plot hole It's not a plot hole if there is a believably plausible explanation such as the one I just presented. There's also no reason to believe that the majority of the Archwing superstructure is used strictly for propulsion. Due to the fact that Archwings have an entire ability set of their own, I'd figure a good chunk of the Archwing consists of whatever systems help convert energy into space ninja magic and propulsion, and life support are just a subset of that space ninja magic linked to the Archwing (kind of as if they were a fifth ability and passive shared among all Archwings). Edited June 27, 2016 by Inarticulate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekurama13 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 4 minutes ago, Inarticulate said: It's not a plot hole if there is a believably plausible explanation such as the one I just presented. There's also no reason to believe that the majority of the Archwing superstructure is used strictly for propulsion. Due to the fact that Archwings have an entire ability set of their own, I'd figure a good chunk of the Archwing consists of whatever systems help convert energy into space ninja magic and propulsion, and life support are just a subset of that space ninja magic linked to the Archwing (kind of as if they were a fifth ability and passive shared among all Archwings). have you every seen the enemy were life support???????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarticulate Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 8 minutes ago, thekurama13 said: have you every seen the enemy were life support???????? Any enemy unit is also typically alive for all of one minute. Their personal life support pack really only needs to last a few minutes tops. The fact that they don't drop dead from lack of life support after a minute or two if left alive is a reasonable suspension of disbelief required for gameplay mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekurama13 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 1 minute ago, Inarticulate said: Any enemy unit is also typically alive for all of one minute. Their personal life support pack really only needs to last a few minutes tops. The fact that they don't drop dead from lack of life support after a minute or two if left alive is a reasonable suspension of disbelief required for gameplay mechanics. as is all of survival. they just need to change the mechanics to have some sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizzaro21 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, Inarticulate said: There's no reason why you'd need to build a biomechanical golem to respire from its head. The Archwing might just create a confinement field to maintain a volume of air around the Warframe. dude you keep making it worse lol, is that air field going to last forever? it is bound to run out, not to mention that any explosion might knock the air out of the field or even fires can consume the oxygen from it....... note: how do infested carry personal life support? Edited June 27, 2016 by Bizzaro21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarticulate Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 43 minutes ago, Bizzaro21 said: dude you keep making it worse lol, is that air field going to last forever? it is bound to run out, not to mention that any explosion might knock the air out of the field or even fires can consume the oxygen from it....... Your Archwing is a space ninja magic generator, same stuff as your Warframe. I've already explained this one. Stop skimming and start reading. 44 minutes ago, Bizzaro21 said: note: how do infested carry personal life support? This one I can't explain. 2 hours ago, thekurama13 said: as is all of survival. they just need to change the mechanics to have some sense I don't think you understood "reasonable suspension of disbelief". There is already enough sense to be reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekurama13 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 4 minutes ago, Inarticulate said: Your Archwing is a space ninja magic generator, same stuff as your Warframe. I've already explained this one. Stop skimming and start reading. This one I can't explain. I don't think you understood "reasonable suspension of disbelief". There is already enough sense to be reasonable. no. it is not in suspension of disbelief it has past the limit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacabreHaze Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Well its a life support system, not necessarily oxegen. Could be some sort of system that cuts the operator off from Warframe, thus preventing the support of 'life' on the Warframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizzaro21 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 9 minutes ago, Inarticulate said: Your Archwing is a space ninja magic generator, same stuff as your Warframe. I've already explained this one. Stop skimming and start reading. This one I can't explain. I don't think you understood "reasonable suspension of disbelief". There is already enough sense to be reasonable. space magic isn`t a justification, it`s a joke, and I did read it, and tbh I laughed well there is finally a confession and no there isnt sense at all, for one how does this capsule contain enough air to fill 30% of the ship? as far as I know no one can compress so much air into such space, and how do we activate it? we put our hand in it, flow some energy and boom, air, infested carry personal life support, and personal support we collect fills like 4% of the ship with air, the lotus never learns and keeps sending us without personal air modules ourselves, the operative is dumb enough to leave rare parts and grab O cells, they flush air out instead of I dont know, locking down? self destruct? capsules melt once air is out, including personal ones which are already on the ground and lotus has nothing to do with, breaking a window doesnt affect life support although air goes out of it at an insane rate, dogs dont choke, nor do they use up air at all, and list goes on, but one final thing, is the game mode itself is bad, and needs reworking, idc how it is reworked, but it needs to be less of a rush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekurama13 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 3 minutes ago, Bizzaro21 said: space magic isn`t a justification, it`s a joke, and I did read it, and tbh I laughed well there is finally a confession and no there isnt sense at all, for one how does this capsule contain enough air to fill 30% of the ship? as far as I know no one can compress so much air into such space, and how do we activate it? we put our hand in it, flow some energy and boom, air, infested carry personal life support, and personal support we collect fills like 4% of the ship with air, the lotus never learns and keeps sending us without personal air modules ourselves, the operative is dumb enough to leave rare parts and grab O cells, they flush air out instead of I dont know, locking down? self destruct? capsules melt once air is out, including personal ones which are already on the ground and lotus has nothing to do with, breaking a window doesnt affect life support although air goes out of it at an insane rate, dogs dont choke, nor do they use up air at all, and list goes on, but one final thing, is the game mode itself is bad, and needs reworking, idc how it is reworked, but it needs to be less of a rush so much agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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