What Is Stalker?

[arch111]

17 minutes ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

makes sense 

 

which one? 

"But you're asking yourself, 'Was I one of these wretched things?' You know the answer. You still hate them. You still hate yourself."

Based on what DE have told us. 

Stalkers body is the same as Umbra. That alone is an argument.

There once were Guardians and Tenno. The Tenno were a unit of experimental soldiers, but who were the Guardians? Soldiers but not sent against the Sentients, the last line of defence perhaps.

Or, they guarded the Orokin against the Tenno. 

When the Tenno rebelled he did not join them. He did not share the somatic link with Lotus. He did not experience the Second Dream(Lotus have not to my knowledge said he is a tenno).

He was in fact awake after the Betrayal, and not in cryosleep.

But where did he go in those long years when the Sol System fell into chaos? He wandered. He found a place, a dark place, and he watched for when the Tenno would return.

HUNHOW and the Accolytes,  Tenno followers, call him Shadow. Umbra is a type if shadow.

So did he find the Dark Void? Did he uncover the Secrets of the Void that the Orokin failed to comprehend, turning himself into a Void Conduit for dark energy, but separate from the Lotus?

We have to wait for the reveal of Umbra as well as the still untold story of the creation of the warframes and the Guardians.

One thing that do speak against him being a tenno, is the fact that Hunhow can interact with him. As a Sentient I think that should be impossible.

All in all, the pieces of the puzzle so far fit Umbra the best, and we know by now that DE like to scatter the story around with sometimes not so subtle hints.

- I might be absolutely wrong. Or not.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

2 hours ago, arch111 said:

"But you're asking yourself, 'Was I one of these wretched things?' You know the answer. You still hate them. You still hate yourself."

Based on what DE have told us. 

Stalkers body is the same as Umbra. That alone is an argument.

There once were Guardians and Tenno. The Tenno were a unit of experimental soldiers, but who were the Guardians? Soldiers but not sent against the Sentients, the last line of defence perhaps.

Or, they guarded the Orokin against the Tenno. 

When the Tenno rebelled he did not join them. He did not share the somatic link with Lotus. He did not experience the Second Dream(Lotus have not to my knowledge said he is a tenno).

He was in fact awake after the Betrayal, and not in cryosleep.

But where did he go in those long years when the Sol System fell into chaos? He wandered. He found a place, a dark place, and he watched for when the Tenno would return.

HUNHOW and the Accolytes,  Tenno followers, call him Shadow. Umbra is a type if shadow.

So did he find the Dark Void? Did he uncover the Secrets of the Void that the Orokin failed to comprehend, turning himself into a Void Conduit for dark energy, but separate from the Lotus?

We have to wait for the reveal of Umbra as well as the still untold story of the creation of the warframes and the Guardians.

One thing that do speak against him being a tenno, is the fact that Hunhow can interact with him. As a Sentient I think that should be impossible.

All in all, the pieces of the puzzle so far fit Umbra the best, and we know by now that DE like to scatter the story around with sometimes not so subtle hints.

- I might be absolutely wrong. Or not.

makes sense 

imo I think the guardians are the purposefully made tenno (created using the empires rejects ) unlike us who were accidents 

i think tenno are actually a stronger then guardians but that may just be an opinion rather than fact 

Quote

 

The resulting Technocyte virus was likely unleashed on a part of the general population to create vast amounts of troops. However the Infestation soon spreads out of control and assumes a mind of its own, likely butchering anything it comes in contact with. The Infestation unfortunately was still unable to subvert machines, thus having little effect in slowing down the advancement of the Sentient.

The Orokin, now desperate, seek to exploit the Void energy. They put their empire rejects in their ships designed to expose them to the Void energy, in the hopes of recreating something that was accidentally discovered. Though most of them died in the process, those among the infected lineage that survived saw the energy of the Void infused with their virus, which resulted in abilities channeling raw void energy. The Warframe are built as conduits for these void energies and to breed the newly developed race into a lethal asset. Excalibur was the first Warframe created during this time, it's form based on the proto-Warframe from the pre-Orokin time. A new warrior and a new code was born; they were codenamed "Tenno."

 

 

[Aresco]

Since the Warframe moved by itself at the end of the second dream, why can't the Stalker be the same? Just my opinion

[TARINunit9]

A character going through an awkward retcon phase (no matter what a certain other lore enthusiast has been trying to convince me otherwise). He was originally an ordinary Orokin soldier who gained supernatural powers through... something. Right now, the devs are still working out the kinks of his new lore, so they're keeping it vague

[arch111]

4 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

A character going through an awkward retcon phase (no matter what a certain other lore enthusiast has been trying to convince me otherwise). He was originally an ordinary Orokin soldier who gained supernatural powers through... something. Right now, the devs are still working out the kinks of his new lore, so they're keeping it vague

Isn't eveything?

For the longest time I thought the Guardians were humans wearing armor.

Then I wondered if he was Hayden Tenno.

Now? We shall see.

One thing more I remembered. 

The Accolytes say to Alad:

"These children will not stop me from punishing you. "

Why would a Tenno say children? Unless the Accolytes are not used by a Tenno. Or even better, by a grown human. Hard to explain, but then so is every Lore in warframe :/

[arch111]

N

4 hours ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

makes sense 

imo I think the guardians are the purposefully made tenno (created using the empires rejects ) unlike us who were accidents 

i think tenno are actually a stronger then guardians but that may just be an opinion rather than fact 

 

Yeah this sound good.

[(XBOX)Mechanized Mind]

Never thought to differentiate the Tenno from the Guardians.  Perhaps the guardians are a newer series of warframe, weaker than the ones we use, but are designed to be absolutely loyal to the Orokin.

 

This is pure speculation, but entertaining the thought that Tenno were the soldiers used in the battle that everyone knew about, and the guardians being similar, (but not used to fight the sentients), I have a theory.  The guardians act as a form of secret police for the Orokin.  

 

The Orokin have the Tenno fighting in the war, and that's great and all, but with the true nature of the Tenno being what it is, they probably predicted an uprising at some point, or at least a few of them to start questioning their creators once the fighting was over.  Having this in mind, they could have created the Guardians as a side project with the goal of creating warframes that were programmed to be completely loyal to the Orokin, no matter what, as well as giving them autonomy, eliminating the need of an operator.  This would 1) end the threat of rebellion (at least for the newer generation) and 2) give them some protection should a rebellion happen.  

 

Now, there were Tenno tasked with protecting the Orokin, and that's great and all, but if you knew your bodyguard resented you and could easily kill you if he decided to, wouldn't you want some form of secret contingency plan?  That's what I figure the Guardian's main job was.  To protect the Orokin from the shadows.  They could have had other tasks as well, kind of like a special forces unit.  They'd handle missions that were meant to be kept hush hush.  (Missions dealing with the Sol system, Orokin and other stuff not related to fighting the sentients).  

 

Now, going with the assumption that the guardians are a separate branch of "shadow" warframe, it would make sense that their "prime" variant would be something shadow related.  Umbra, the darkest part of a shadow.  An appropriate connotation if ever there was one.  Wether or not the Orokin designed actual Umbra warframes is up for debate, seeing as Stalker gets upgraded to one by Hunhow.  Or they did, and Stalker's upgrade is technically something else.  (Though his name does change from "Stalker" to "Shadow Stalker", if you catch my drift).  

 

So, I think a Guardian is equivalent to a non-primed warframe (the ones we use, but are programmed to be loyal to the Orokin), and an Umbra (a form created through upgrading a Guardian), is the equivalent of a "primed" warframe.  

 

Also, I view the Acolytes as the same as stalker (guardians) and on the same level as pre-Shadow Stalker.  

 

(Please forgive me if my formatting is off or there are weird typos.  I wrote this on my phone)

Edited July 2, 2016 by (XB1)MAveric215

[Chromatrescu]

DarkSider Tenno

Clem .

[TARINunit9]

1 minute ago, (XB1)MAveric215 said:

Never thought to differentiate the Tennp from the Guardians

You mean even after old-lore-Stalker very clearly made a huge, deliberate distinction between the Guardians and the Tenno?

[(XBOX)Mechanized Mind]

1 minute ago, TARINunit9 said:

You mean even after old-lore-Stalker very clearly made a huge, deliberate distinction between the Guardians and the Tenno?

I figured they were all guardians, and stalker was just a lower rank.  I never thought they might be two separate series of warframe.

[TARINunit9]

17 minutes ago, (XB1)MAveric215 said:

I figured they were all guardians, and stalker was just a lower rank.  I never thought they might be two separate series of warframe.

I would think the utter contempt old-lore-Stalker used to convey his ideas would make his message clear: "I am not a Tenno, because I am a Guardian." I mean, the divides between himself (as a Guardian) and the Tenno are simultaneously thematic, socialistic, and physical ("the Tenno were front and center in front of the Emperors, while the Guardians like myself were standing way in the back at our posts")

That said, having typed this out, I think I know what factor you were missing: Excalibur Prime's lore. Before the war Tenno were lepers, hated witches, freaks of nature. It just strikes me as sloppy lore-writing to have the Tenno split up into low guardians who become ordinary members of society, and high guardians who remain hated freaks through most of the war and then earn massive praise to the point they get a huge ceremony where the low guardians aren't invited... but if you didn't have that crucial piece, it wouldn't be sloppy

(I should really stop browsing forums at midnight, I just type out every random thing that goes through my mind)

Of course, with the heavy retcon Stalker is getting, I wouldn't be surprised if the entire Guardian/Tenno distinction gets changed (or "re-clarified") too

Edited July 2, 2016 by TARINunit9

[TARINunit9]

@(XB1)MAveric215

(Another reason to stop posting at midnight is I get paranoid I've phrased something badly that it sounds insulting. Rest assured, I didn't intended to imply you were dumb, just that you read the lore different than me which we've already acknowledged)

[Buzlok_Gorgon]

I think the stalker is an umbra. And I think an umbra is a frame without a tenno. I think when the stalker was referring to the frame when he said "them."

By saying them I think that the stalker was referring to being a puppet or a vehicle dependent on the tenno to move. I think the stalker once had a tenno that controlled him and through some kind of medium, the tenno was killed or disposed of. Look at the rhino codex. Maybe the tenno are like a restraint or a kind of remote control to keep the warframes sane or useable.

Also, I think the war within is a reference to what is actually inside a frame. Alad v said it was interesting to see what was on the inside. Imagine if he got his hands on a acolyte

[Aekhon]

Based on what I've read and how Stalker's codex is phrased and what happens during Second Dream, my theory is the following:

Spoiler

Stalker calls himself a low Guardian in his codex, so I assume that means he was something like the Orokin equivalent of a police officer or a foot soldier - one of the ones who weren't up to the task of defeating the Sentient.  Initially, he was probably more than a bit jealous of the Tenno and all the accolades they were receiving.  Nonetheless, he was loyal to the Orokin Empire, so when the Tenno killed them during the victory ceremony, he was understandably...displeased.  In the chaos, I think he fled or was somehow spared from the slaughter and escaped.   Alone, he found himself on the run from the Tenno, all the while watching his empire fall around him (this would take some time and coordination; you can't destroy an empire by simply killing off its leaders at a single ceremony).  Eventually, he comes across the Sentient - either on purpose or by accident, I'm not sure which.  Once the Orokin Empire is gone, I could see a vengeful surviving Orokin seeking out the Sentient to form a temporary alliance against the Tenno, or I could also see the Sentient capturing him.  The end result of that meeting is that the Sentient experiment on him to try to create their own version of a Tenno, since it was the Tenno that defeated them.

 

[(XBOX)Mechanized Mind]

5 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

@(XB1)MAveric215

(Another reason to stop posting at midnight is I get paranoid I've phrased something badly that it sounds insulting. Rest assured, I didn't intended to imply you were dumb, just that you read the lore different than me which we've already acknowledged)

It's cool, it was 2am where I was when I posted, so I know what you mean lol

4 hours ago, Nashucus said:

By saying them I think that the stalker was referring to being a puppet or a vehicle dependent on the tenno to move. I think the stalker once had a tenno that controlled him and through some kind of medium, the tenno was killed or disposed of. Look at the rhino codex. Maybe the tenno are like a restraint or a kind of remote control to keep the warframes sane or useable.

I do believe the warframes we utilize are kept in line by the Tenno.  Like you said, the Rhino Prime codex alludes to this, as well as 2 quests within the game (I have no idea how to use the spoiler thing so I'll just leave it at that).

[BornWithTeeth]

On 02/07/2016 at 6:47 AM, TARINunit9 said:

A character going through an awkward retcon phase (no matter what a certain other lore enthusiast has been trying to convince me otherwise). He was originally an ordinary Orokin soldier who gained supernatural powers through... something. Right now, the devs are still working out the kinks of his new lore, so they're keeping it vague

Man, this guy who keeps arguing with you sounds like a real jerk.

 

One thing very definitely argues against the Stalker being the result of Sentient experimentation: At the start of the Second Dream, Stalker has no idea who the hell Hunhow is. He's arrived to this meeting and he gets sweet upgrades, but he has to ask who it is that he's talking to. Plus, aesthetically, the Pakal armour is very clearly Sentient (SPACE CRUSTACEAN) technology newly grafted onto the Stalker's own smooth Warframe exterior. 

[(PSN)IroncladBomber]

An Edgelord.

[Plushy]

He just needs a lady stalker to love him. I'm getting tired of getting jumped on every other time I go on a mission.

[TheSteelRat]

we will find out more when umbra is revealed. 

[BornWithTeeth]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)IroncladBomber said:

An Edgelord.

Well......he himself may not be an edgelord, but he has most certainly become the mascot of edgelords among the players. I can only imagine that this aggravates him to no end, and he facepalms a lot, with his ugly, ugly helmet.

Edited July 3, 2016 by BornWithTeeth

[(PSN)IroncladBomber]

7 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Well......he himself may not be an edgelord, but he has most certainly become the mascot of edgelords among the players. I can only imagine that this aggravates him to no end, and he facepalms a lot, with his ugly, ugly helmet.

You are probably Right. I just imagine Stalker out there being angry that he doesn't have the effect he wants on the Tenno. Either they see him and start to emulate him and dress up like him, or see him and think "Loot Pinata" 

[Aroxian]

On 7/1/2016 at 5:00 PM, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

makes sense 

 

which one? 

Rhino duh.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

On June 28, 2016 at 11:28 PM, Irorone said:

  Hide contents

Well they haven't actually nailed down what he is.  The community consensus is that he's either a warframe driven mad by a permanent seperation from his operator (a potential reason that he hates the tenno a sense of abandonment), or that he IS an operator driven mad by being alive the entire time after the fall of the orokin and has effectively himself grown to the capacity of handling his own void touched biology without things like the soma chair.

 

There is also Jung's theory made flesh.  The coolest theory of all.

Basically, he is the Unconscious hate, despair, and rage generated by Tenno forced to be eternal child-soldier-slaves and repeatedly experience the horrors of centuries of war.  It would explain how he finds us and resists our power.  He IS us.

Another theory is that Low Guardians are Tenno that fail at transference but are given single suits as they grow up, and he was hellbent on mastering the "high Tenno" way to get revenge for perceived betrayal from afar.

Finally he could be  a "low guardian" Tenno who died as a result of being cut off when the Empire fell, and projected himself into his Warframe.

Edited July 3, 2016 by (PS4)Silverback73

[(PSN)Silverback73]

11 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Man, this guy who keeps arguing with you sounds like a real jerk.

 

One thing very definitely argues against the Stalker being the result of Sentient experimentation: At the start of the Second Dream, Stalker has no idea who the hell Hunhow is. He's arrived to this meeting and he gets sweet upgrades, but he has to ask who it is that he's talking to. Plus, aesthetically, the Pakal armour is very clearly Sentient (SPACE CRUSTACEAN) technology newly grafted onto the Stalker's own smooth Warframe exterior. 

It's very possible that the adaptive qualities of Sentient Tech were utilized in Warframe design.  For all we know, Orokin cells could be cloned/modified protoform Sentients (basically Sentient Embryos).

The fusion of Tenno void power, which is poisonous to Sentients, would be the challenge. If prototype-Rhino is a raging Sentient-infested hybrid in the codex, it certainly finds peace or is brought under control when it encounters the sleeping Tenno.

To your point, the Orokin probably had a special flavor of subjugation that extended all the way to style, such as the gold on Primes.

Aesthetics were just another form of control.  And being a low guardian, Stalker probably wasn't "in-the-know" when it came to Hunhow.

Edited July 3, 2016 by (PS4)Silverback73

[BornWithTeeth]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

It's very possible that the adaptive qualities of Sentient Tech were utilized in Warframe design.  For all we know, Orokin cells could be cloned/modified protoform Sentients (basically Sentient Embryos).

The fusion of Tenno void power, which is poisonous to Sentients, would be the challenge. If prototype-Rhino is a raging Sentient-infested hybrid in the codex, it certainly finds peace or is brought under control when it encounters the sleeping Tenno.

To your point, the Orokin probably had a special flavor of subjugation that extended all the way to style, such as the gold on Primes.

Aesthetics were just another form of control.

See, all of that could be true. There's nothing saying that it's not true.

 

 

It's just that there's also nothing to suggest that it is, either.