Why Can't we use secondary Weapon when Capturing a Target and so Protect ourselves?

[(PSN)AngelShur]

Pretty Much Title.

 

Why do we keep holding the Primary Weapon, when there's Mob heading with the speed of light our way as we are capturing a target? 

Please let the Warframe automatically change the weapon to secondary.

Thanks in advance,

Angel

[(XBOX)KickassNinja14]

Kill everyone about you before capping a target, have a teammate protect you, use a tanky frame, use an ability that CCs them. I never found this a problem because i was did or had one of these when i was capping a target. I do however wish you could cancel capping a target just like with reviving 

[Evanescent]

I second this, and this should apply for Life Support in Survivals, picking up power cells in Excavations too.

[Birdframe_Prime]

Because, dear players, this is called 'risk/reward game play'. It's an essential balance to the way we play and is implemented specifically to make you question whether you should do what you need to do to win, or what you need to do to survive.

Survival pods, do you get more life-giving air in that four second of vulnerability, or do you waste time clearing the area so you don't lose a revive? Capture targets, do you stop them and escape, or do you kill everything nearby and ensure your own survival and risk the chance that they might get back up? Data masses and power cells, do you stick with your powerful primary and kill things, or do you trust your abilities and secondary to get you through while you make the game progress?

Or do you simply take a frame with the ability to tank, or temporarily cc, or stealth long enough to not die while you're vulnerable those few seconds? Or do you take a team and work with a bit of strategy?

It's a choice, and you have to take the risk that you're going to die or at least take damage while doing it. As far as game play mechanics go, this is one of the most simple, and one that encourages team-play or strategic play the most.

That's why you can't. It's 100% thought-out, planned and intentional by the game devs (to make you squirm a little every time you come to those points).

[Tsunero]

Seconding this, this could be handy when ressing people as well since only one arm does the ressing and the other is..well empty.

[AzyWng]

4 hours ago, Thaylien said:

Because, dear players, this is called 'risk/reward game play'. It's an essential balance to the way we play and is implemented specifically to make you question whether you should do what you need to do to win, or what you need to do to survive.

Survival pods, do you get more life-giving air in that four second of vulnerability, or do you waste time clearing the area so you don't lose a revive? Capture targets, do you stop them and escape, or do you kill everything nearby and ensure your own survival and risk the chance that they might get back up? Data masses and power cells, do you stick with your powerful primary and kill things, or do you trust your abilities and secondary to get you through while you make the game progress?

Or do you simply take a frame with the ability to tank, or temporarily cc, or stealth long enough to not die while you're vulnerable those few seconds? Or do you take a team and work with a bit of strategy?

It's a choice, and you have to take the risk that you're going to die or at least take damage while doing it. As far as game play mechanics go, this is one of the most simple, and one that encourages team-play or strategic play the most.

That's why you can't. It's 100% thought-out, planned and intentional by the game devs (to make you squirm a little every time you come to those points).

When you put it like this it makes much more sense!

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

When you see your warframe with one hand free, dangling loosely next to the pistol on your hip, taking fire to the face as calm as day because they are really focused on the task at hand....

It doesn't make more sense.

Now, allowing us to use secondaries, but not being able to reload it (because one free hand) makes sense, and keeps the sense of risk and reward, as you have to prioritize enemies still.

At least I like to think so.

 

[polarity]

Letting the sanctuary mod on sentinels/kubrows work in these situations would make sense, and help with higher level missions where it's far more risky.

Edited June 30, 2016 by polarity

[Birdframe_Prime]

5 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

When you see your warframe with one hand free, dangling loosely next to the pistol on your hip, taking fire to the face as calm as day because they are really focused on the task at hand....

It doesn't make more sense.

Now, allowing us to use secondaries, but not being able to reload it (because one free hand) makes sense, and keeps the sense of risk and reward, as you have to prioritize enemies still.

At least I like to think so.

You're right, the animation doesn't really make sense, but that's more an oversight in animation than game design. Then again that's like arguing that the sliding animation doesn't change as you change direction, it just rotates to point your foot without any kind of adjustment for momentum, so you should only be able to slide in one direction. Animation doesn't define gameplay mechanics.

Besides, look at what happened when it did: we had Coptering before we had Parkour 2.0. Where players picked weapons based on their mobility enhancement via the slide attack animation and suffered for it when they were left at the mercy of mobs and a slower weapon would get them killed faster. DE brought in Parkour 2.0 to return our ability to use any weapon we wanted, not just to improve the game mobility, I don't think they're going to give us a reason for people to return to that route.

Instead of that we'd be picking weapons for their ability to kill while performing these actions, like the Sonicor for their group-damaging or CC ability, over the more powerful weapons, like the Brakk, many of which have more actual firepower or functionality in many other situations.

5 hours ago, polarity said:

Letting the sanctuary mod on sentinels/kubrows work in these situations would make sense, and help with higher level missions where it's far more risky.

This, on the other hand, is something I definitely support.

It's there when you're using the same game play to revive a team member, the same risk/reward strategy, and the higher you go the less Sanctuary matters due to the enemy scaling damage, except that even if it's shredded, it can last for those vital seconds it takes to activate a pod or capture a target and let you survive.

[blazinvire]

Well, for a teleport/capturing ability that convenient, maybe it DOES require your undivided attention.

...Though I'm probably the only one hung up on why we can teleport/store prisoners in some extradimensional pocket, but don't use this miraculous technology for any number of things.  It may be obvious from a gameplay angle, but it's of a similar vein as to why we can't punch/kick things in the face when we don't pack a melee weapon.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

3 hours ago, Thaylien said:

You're right, the animation doesn't really make sense, but that's more an oversight in animation than game design. Then again that's like arguing that the sliding animation doesn't change as you change direction, it just rotates to point your foot without any kind of adjustment for momentum, so you should only be able to slide in one direction. Animation doesn't define gameplay mechanics.

Besides, look at what happened when it did: we had Coptering before we had Parkour 2.0. Where players picked weapons based on their mobility enhancement via the slide attack animation and suffered for it when they were left at the mercy of mobs and a slower weapon would get them killed faster. DE brought in Parkour 2.0 to return our ability to use any weapon we wanted, not just to improve the game mobility, I don't think they're going to give us a reason for people to return to that route.

Instead of that we'd be picking weapons for their ability to kill while performing these actions, like the Sonicor for their group-damaging or CC ability, over the more powerful weapons, like the Brakk, many of which have more actual firepower or functionality in many other situations.

This, on the other hand, is something I definitely support.

It's there when you're using the same game play to revive a team member, the same risk/reward strategy, and the higher you go the less Sanctuary matters due to the enemy scaling damage, except that even if it's shredded, it can last for those vital seconds it takes to activate a pod or capture a target and let you survive.

Coptering was not really intended as a movement form? (i don't believe)...I have to find that out. I was under the impression it was an exploit the devs let pass for a while because they were nice people. Idk, wasn't involved in the forums then, just played the game.

If we cannot defend our selves while getting life support than 2 suggestions.

1). Speed up the animation the less players you have. Solo survival is a while different beast.

2). Stop letting tar mutalist slowdown the rate at which you get life support....that is just wrong.  

I used/still use pole arms very much, coptering was fun....but there was no reason to chose utility over survivability.

If people choose utility weapons over damage weapons for missions where they want to defend them selves (like they already do with the sonicor in an event mission that involved defending a capture target for example) then that's their choice? Of they fail missions, because they used that utility weapon...Maybe that means they would know that was the wrong choice?

I see my self still using my marelok or Mara. No need for any thing gimmicky.

[Birdframe_Prime]

3 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Coptering was not really intended as a movement form? (i don't believe)...I have to find that out. I was under the impression it was an exploit the devs let pass for a while because they were nice people. Idk, wasn't involved in the forums then, just played the game.

Correct, it wasn't, but it became the de-facto movement augmenting function of the game by the time I had hit end-game readiness, my clan was one that could easily top leaderboards at the time and they taught me how to maximise my movement and what to look for in weapons. The bit that gets interesting is when they introduced air-lunge animation with melee, right in time for the Tipedo actually, which became the meta weapon of choice. The air lunge animation was done deliberately off the back of coptering to give an actual animation to air attacks and to provide a 3D movement ability beyond the rather poor parkour we had at the time. Again, the speed and distance of the animation was dependent on the weapon type, not the stats, and the combo of the Tipedo already having one of the better coptering animations in the game (some whips and daggers, maybe the dual zoren too were a little better) and now having a fairly amazing air-lunge... Couple that with fairly decent stats for a pole-arm and it was a no-brainer what to take on higher level content.

Back on topic though... when all's said and done, it's four seconds. Four.

Yes I can see everyone's point, yes the tar mutalists slow us down to double that, but that won't change the fact that the devs actually want to make you vulnerable when performing actions. You can't shoot while hacking a console either, but nobody else here has brought that up because the animation for that has you actually doing something and interacting with the game.

Maybe life support should be more interactive, distract us for those few seconds, I don't know, but the function of it and of capture targets is to force you to be immobile and unable to defend yourself. It's deliberate, it's the intent of those things to force you into a risk/reward choice. You fulfil the mission objective by risking yourself, or you risk the mission to preserve yourself.

DE aren't going to make it easy-mode for us, not when it's something they've been using for the specific purpose of game balance, encouraging you to take a team and forcing you to be aware of your surroundings.

[Ciaus]

12 hours ago, polarity said:

Letting the sanctuary mod on sentinels/kubrows work in these situations would make sense, and help with higher level missions where it's far more risky.

This is the sort of idea that makes no sense to NOT be in the game already. +1. 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

18 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

Correct, it wasn't, but it became the de-facto movement augmenting function of the game by the time I had hit end-game readiness, my clan was one that could easily top leaderboards at the time and they taught me how to maximise my movement and what to look for in weapons. The bit that gets interesting is when they introduced air-lunge animation with melee, right in time for the Tipedo actually, which became the meta weapon of choice. The air lunge animation was done deliberately off the back of coptering to give an actual animation to air attacks and to provide a 3D movement ability beyond the rather poor parkour we had at the time. Again, the speed and distance of the animation was dependent on the weapon type, not the stats, and the combo of the Tipedo already having one of the better coptering animations in the game (some whips and daggers, maybe the dual zoren too were a little better) and now having a fairly amazing air-lunge... Couple that with fairly decent stats for a pole-arm and it was a no-brainer what to take on higher level content.

Back on topic though... when all's said and done, it's four seconds. Four.

Yes I can see everyone's point, yes the tar mutalists slow us down to double that, but that won't change the fact that the devs actually want to make you vulnerable when performing actions. You can't shoot while hacking a console either, but nobody else here has brought that up because the animation for that has you actually doing something and interacting with the game.

Maybe life support should be more interactive, distract us for those few seconds, I don't know, but the function of it and of capture targets is to force you to be immobile and unable to defend yourself. It's deliberate, it's the intent of those things to force you into a risk/reward choice. You fulfil the mission objective by risking yourself, or you risk the mission to preserve yourself.

DE aren't going to make it easy-mode for us, not when it's something they've been using for the specific purpose of game balance, encouraging you to take a team and forcing you to be aware of your surroundings.

All this talk of forcing this and forcing that makes me feel like I'm not playing a game...:/

I don't mind the console because

1) in the animation, I'm using both hands (the devil is in the details, and I take things very literally) 

2) it's interactive. If I die while hacking, it is entirely my fault, because I can also cancel the action and fight back.

The reason I am against not being able to use secondaries while capturing a target/getting life support

1) Again, it's a single hand animation, I know we already stressed this, but it will always be on my list of things that don't make logical sense. Even if you are using psychic powers to perform these actions, and need utmost concentration to do so, I don't think that requires you to be defenseless. 

·Change the animation so you are using both hands

·Allow us to use secondaries

·Keep it the same way and make me feel the way I do when I get switch teleported by a commander (yes, I am completely aware of the ish storm that statement may start).

2) capturing targets and activating life support is not interactive and can't be canceled. So yeah, you kind of just stand there, regretting your mistakes because you were a scrub lord for a second and let an enemy live.

Its not that bad, not being able to use a secondary, really it's not. But it would be nice quality of life. 

[(PSN)AngelShur]

A lot of comments that really make sense, thanks for these feedbacks, guys!!

[Chipputer]

6 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

All this talk of forcing this and forcing that makes me feel like I'm not playing a game...:/

It's like medical speak-- when you break things down to their core components (this being the choice between the mission or yourself) a lot of things sound scary and like you aren't doing something fun.

 

I don't support this idea. We aren't able to use our secondaries specifically for balance reasons, as already highlighted.