What is *really* wrong with Ash?

[Nazrethim]

I still don't get why you complain Ash's BS scales off the combo counter. HE IS A MELEE FRAME. Wait until DE finishes the rework (which hopefuly will be a stance ultimate because Ash is a melee frame and his wristblades have been a weapon request way before "rework" was a thing) which will hopefully include changes to Smoke Screen to be an actual smoke screen.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

12 hours ago, Telogor said:

This is a serious thread.  I need real, serious, thoughtful answers.  Whenever somebody brings up Ash, usually all you can hear is cries for a Bladestorm nerf.  I'd like to do a little comparison here.

Bladestorm vs Avalanche:
10,750 vs 1500 damage per target per cast
1194  vs 476 DPS
18 vs infinite total targets
hits 3 targets at once vs all targets at once
at least 6-second cast time vs at most 3.15-second cast time
no CC vs freezes enemies for 8 seconds

Even though Frost does less damage, he has a clear advantage in CC and the number of enemies he can hit.  If Frost hits about 2.4 times as many enemies as Ash, he suddenly matches Ash's DPS, while completely locking down the enemies and making them useless at killing Tenno or the objective.  The damage and utility gap is far less than what most people think.

TL;DR: Bladestorm is actually well-balanced.

So, bring your thoughtful critiques about Ash and hopefully we can give DE a good idea of how to not screw up this rework.  IMO, Bladestorm shouldn't be touched, because it is basically synonymous with Ash.  Bladestorm has been Cutscene Simulator 201X forever, and there's no good reason to change it now.  Ash really needs decent abilities for his 1, 2, and 3, then we can think about nerfing Bladestorm's damage a little.  A very little.

 

 

 

Frost is actually a excellent example of a Frame that was left with easy, radial damage.

So is Oberon, havin less Utility. So were Mesa, saryn, excal and mag. Did anyone even dare to compare lousy, slow ash to the Meta dps Frames back then?

Thing is, ash is a Relic. The only Frame that is left from this time. Bladestorm doing Finisher damage was balanced to the top dps abilitys from this time which indeed hit up to infinte enemys INSTANTLY....All the Frames that kept theyr abilitys had weaker dps in the first place and sad truth is, ash is outdated in the current state of the game...

Edited July 1, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Nazrethim]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Thing is, ash is a Relic. The only Frame that is left from this time. Bladestorm doing Finisher damage was balanced to the top dps abilitys from this time which indeed hit up to infinte enemys INSTANTLY....All the Frames that kept theyr abilitys had weaker dps in the first place and sad truth is, ash is outdated in the current state of the game...

Yes, he's one of the original 8 Warframes. He got Finisher damage because BS wasn't AoE, it was Ash jumping from target to target alone, which was awesome but poor for actual room clearing. Then they added the clones and current bladestorm was born. He needs a rework, not only for bladestorm but for his other abilities as well, smoke screen needs to be an actual smoke screen and not a shorter version of Loki's Invisibility. Shuriken tracking and flight path is very wierd (more noticeable in Conclave though) and Teleport works half the time, augment or not.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

Yes, he's one of the original 8 Warframes. He got Finisher damage because BS wasn't AoE, it was Ash jumping from target to target alone, which was awesome but poor for actual room clearing. Then they added the clones and current bladestorm was born. He needs a rework, not only for bladestorm but for his other abilities as well, smoke screen needs to be an actual smoke screen and not a shorter version of Loki's Invisibility. Shuriken tracking and flight path is very wierd (more noticeable in Conclave though) and Teleport works half the time, augment or not.

No idea why this became a augument in the first place... insta Finisher was a fanconcept meant to be a fix, paired with free-aim Teleport... 100% agree. Hope He doesn't end up with a mindless Nerf but a actuall rework...