Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

[DE]Taylor

Void 2.0 Feedback [Megathread]

Recommended Posts

Just now, Phaxilion said:

Has anyone figured out where you get Mag Prime parts? I still haven't gotten all her parts, and the fact she's not in any of the relics worries me. :c

She (and Boar Prime and Dakra Prime) seems to drop from Relics that were not awarded in the conversion for some reason. It's rather annoying since there's much more relics than there were void keys so grinding for specific ones is likely going to be painful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The spawn rate for the reactants is way too low for the amount of elite enemies that are constantly being spawned. This is not a challenge, this is torture.

I understand the not so subtle nudge about having us team up for more Void rewards, but fissures should be at the very least soloable in some kind of fashion. Seriously, failing to open a relic when I'm at 80-90% just because the damned things refuse to spawn isn't cool at all. And while you're at it, perhaps reducing the amount needed to open a relic (Or at the very least, scale them with team size) would be in order.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, first impressions: Slightly worst than the previous system. More of a side-grade really.

It improves on the previous system in one significant way, which is that I no longer need to go to recruiting to get some benefit out of "Keysharing", I can just jump in the mission and most people who play it will probably have a relic. That said, I don't think it a strict upgrade, while you only do one mission and get to chose from four rewards, you only get one reward, where as before, you had to do all four missions, but you also got four rewards. Keysharing is easier, but less rewarding.

The other improvement I see is that you can skew the results. This feels somewhat... negligible. If I'm not mistaken, for 100 traces you can max upgrade one key, that's about ten runs, maybe fifteen worth of traces and the rare item's probability goes up barely to the middle tier. It's a good system, but it isn't really significantly effective in what it does.

I feel personally very strongly about the distribution of rewards: When the void was originally going to be blown up, I got the impression it was to make way for a new, better system in terms of drop table dilution (I'm not sure if their was ever a statement to this effect though). Subsequently, when primes began to be vaulted, I was under the impression that this was temporary, to be added back to the game when a better system for prime parts came in. If I'm not mistaken, nothing has changed with the status of vaulted primes and the drop tables are still diluted. I'll admit, I'm thrilled to no longer see cores or orokin cells anywhere, but forma is still scattered all over the place, which is fine since it's a needed thing, but there is zero good reason to have it take two spots in a single relic (meso D1). I also do not approve of forma showing up in more than half of the Axi relics, which are supposed to be rare and have higher level fissures. This may be bit of a personal issue, rather than feedback, but I was under the impression these were the main issues to be addressed in the void, and they were not (for now).

The void fissures themselves are fine.

In conclusion, specific prime parts are now easier to get, yes, but at the cost of what I feel is a less rewarding and at time more frustrating farming experience. This is a first impression though, and subject to change. Hope the feeback helped a little

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't see myself farming this new system, while the old void might have been slower in some cases, faster than others.  But It is so repetitive, Lith, meso, Neo, Axi. It doesn't matter I'm doing the same minigame, I'd rather if there were a dozen or so types of rifts that could pop up, maybe a survival mission with Orokin enemies helping out the existing troops.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I strongly approve of the fact that multiple players bring more choices of reward, and that we can influence the drop chances to some degree.

As others have said, though, it would be very useful to us to be able to see how many of a part we already have and the ducat values of the choices. We only get a few seconds to decide, so it's not like we have time to look them up.

The void fissures themselves are rather chaotic and feel rather tacked on since you must still complete another mission in the area. We came to these areas because there was a void fissure, not for another mission that just happened to be near one. It's also rather sad doing missions in the void towers now, as they used to seem like such high-class places with mysterious rewards and now they're just empty missions you run when you need argon crystals.

Since even with improved chances there's no guarantee we'll get something useful, it would be nice if we could choose to get more void traces instead of a prime part.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the more I do these fissures, the more I feel that the way they spawn does not mesh well with nulifiers being one of the enemies that spawn.

Now, I'm not one of those that get into a hissy fit at the idea of nulifiers being a thing that exists, but having them potentially spawn right on top of you, with no way to know or react before all your abilities are disabled and deactivated is pretty much the textbook definition of frustration.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First time closing a rift? Confusing, but not necessarily a problem once I figured out all those little yellow things were what you're supposed to pick up. Second time? Failed because no enemies were dropping reactant at 90%, and when one finally did with ten seconds left, a Denial Bursa knocked me down for what felt like way too long, and when I finally got back up and put the reactant in the rift...

...It didn't count! Not only did I fail because initiating a rift can apparently summon Bursas, whoever thought it was a good idea to give the reactant such a piss poor drop chance on the higher tiers clearly doesn't realize "RNG has a much higher chance of making you fail" does not make something challenging, it only makes it severely frustrating! I don't know if that glitch I had where the reactant wasn't counted is common or not, but if this is how we're expected to get Prime parts AND open junctions, the drop rate for reactant seriously needs to be increased.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My personal experience with the new Void stuff has only been negative thus far. Before I get into this, I should state that this was all done with the best stuff I have and through the use of multiple strategies. 

To start: I am all for something that is a challenge. However, the T3-4 tears are ridiculously difficult for a solo player, like myself. I would absolutely love to play with others to get these rewards, but I am still waiting for the day when I can join a mission without being immediately disconnected or abandoned to do the mission alone. 

To describe the issues much more in-depth, the pain-in-the-a** enemies spawn without warning, and have no sort of warning before they can score a hit on you. Nullifiers spawn right on top of you, preventing ability use/continuation for most of the Void tear. I have had Corrupted Bombard Arctic eximus units drop right on top of me at levels exceeding 50-60, and it has been no easy task removing them. Sad to say, by the time I've gotten rid of that one problem, the tear has already closed. The drops to properly seal the tear (forgot their name) drop too slowly in the higher tier missions, as killing just isn't happening at an effective rate. On top of the slow spawns, the only enemies I notice spawning in the higher-tier missions are exclusively bombards, gunners, ancients, nullies, and eximus units. I have seen nothing else across four different T4 attempts.

Now let's talk about mission issues. Most missions work just fine, but there are two issues that I've come across. 1) Survival: The capsules spawn nowhere near the tear most of the time, so if the spawns fail to work, the mission is a failure. 2) Sabotage (specifically, Grineer ship variant): This is my real issue. If you complete the mission objective, intentionally or not, with the fuel cell being inserted, the mission now has a timed limit to finish. If you do not complete the tear in that time limit, the mission is a bust. As stated above with the spawning issues, the drops that seal the tear properly do not show up quickly enough to seal the Void tear, and run to extraction in time to finish the mission out. You can get left with 2:30 on your void tear, but will only have 1:30 to finish the mission without failure. 

Overall, I am fairly upset with the workings of the Void tears, and I actually would like my keys back. This update as a whole has thrown off veteran players, such as myself. The Void tears are no better for farming than the old system, It takes way to long to navigate the new Starchart, and we get nothing more than the help of others to figure the new stuff out. I don't even want to try the new Archwing system with the information I've heard from others. It's too bad, I was actually excited to see what fun adventures this update would take me on, but it's only made the grind more infuriating. Isn't that the opposite of what was intended?

Spoiler

Remember, this is my own personal experience. Disagree with my thoughts if you want, but don't pull the 'You're wrong' card. This is all that I've seen so far. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Played a few solo, both low and high level "keys" but nothing in the middle of the spectrum. I am a solo player for the most part.

I enjoy the direction but not the execution as of yet. My complaints are directed towards the high level end of the difficulty spectrum.

  • Reactant
    • Visibility
      • Tar moa spots on the ground seems to cover reactant, and since they are now hard to destroy this is very annoying, especially with slowed animations
      • The fissure fights are intense. With things like player-produced explosions, bombard explosions, nullifiers, and heavy gunner ground slams, I couldn't tell if a reactant dropped from an enemy that I just killed. The visually noisy effects from the void fissure doesn't help either.
    • Usage
      • Reactant is a pain to pick up. Because of the amount of crowd control coming out of the fissure and from normal enemies like scorpions and ancients, I really want to be able to consistently grab these things fast and while on the move.
      • Pressing my default context action key causes me to reload. I don't really want to reload, especially when I still need to shoot to get the reactant to the fissure.
      • Depositing reactant is unintuitive, and I still don't know how it works exactly. From my observations, it seems that you must be very close to the fissure, there cannot be any enemies near the fissure, and even then there is some kind of delay (Don't know for certain, but will assume these are the rules for the purpose of this critique)
    • Consistency
      • Drops seem random, like life support; can get unlucky and go a while without getting a single reactant
  • Enemies
    • Dropping powerful enemies with powerful crowd control effects at close range around where the player needs to be is aggravating to players. I find heavy gunners tolerable, but the slow speed of bombard projectiles means that you'll often have a few chasing you that are hard to see (visual noise as aforementioned) and are virtually impossible to stop from striking without using powers. Rolling into them is a solution but then I find myself constantly rolling and unable to deal damage or pick up reactant.
      • Nullifiers dropping straight onto the field is jarring and, again visually noisy, especially when they stack up on each other.
    • Certain eximus/unit combinations are large bullet sponges. I don't mind having powerful units around that you can't instantly kill, but having too many of these out blocks spawning of new units and halting your ability to get any reactant until these roadblocks are down, which can take an excessive amount of time.

The "game mode" as it is runs into a problem where old enemy design conflicts with a new battle environment. Players cannot take advantage of mobility mechanics because they need to stop to pick up reactant and drop it off. They aren't able to do quick drop offs either the same way you might with excavation because of the inability to drop with enemies near the fissure (as stated to be assumed above). This means that these enemies with close range CC spawn in on these more immobile players at that close range and prevent them from safely doing much.

If the fissure is in a nice, open location, a lot of these problems are not that bad. The player can take advantage of air space to dodge and take a breather to look for reactant outside of the visual noise. Fissures can just as often appear in indoor tilesets though, with low ceiling space. Infested corpus ship comes to mind.

 

Suggestions:

The biggest problems trace back to enemy design, but this post concerns void 2.0, and not enemies 2.0, and so here's what I feel could be changed without looking into that.

 

  • Make reactant bigger. The current way to identify reactant is by the golden glow, but the visual noise makes glow identification impossible, so make the actual model more visually impactful.
  • The requirements for dropping off reactant are unintuitive and not explained by the Lotus. Either could be improved upon (assuming that my previous assumption was true).
  • Tone down void rift visual effects. Less bright shininess.
  • Reduce nullifier bubble opacity. Again, less bright shininess.
  • Look into the interaction between tar moas with this game type. This enemy only appears in some infested missions, but is much more effective at frustrating me in this game type than any others because of how you must be on the ground to pick up reactant in an enclosed area.
  • Increase void unit "warp in" delay. Give heavy units 2 seconds more of delay in which they are invulnerable but can be recognized and avoided by the player.
  • On a smaller note, the way the void fissure timer flashes in and out is annoying. I hope it is unintentional. As a solo player, I am looking at a lot of things and thinking about what I need to do next, so when I find the split second of extra time I need to glance at a UI element and find it not there, I become annoyed.

 

All negativity aside, I enjoy fissures more than the old void. I enjoy the mission variety that I now have and the ability to not rely on a third party wiki site for drop tables. These criticisms, though, come from the only time that I have been genuinely frustrated by Warframe and quit the game after a mission failure from that frustration. I hope that you will take my concerns into account.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just gunna leave this here...

 

--- The new Void Tears' are more used to foster 'team play' into the game, they do not actually bring anything new to the table, in fact they actually make getting void parts take less time in some cases. Most times, the difficulty of the enemies does not match the enemies that you are running the mission around... i can already see a huge amount of trolling going to be starting because of that. And you Fail the mission if you Fail to seal the tear. In addition, the items needed to seal the tear that drop of enemies don't interact with the tear properly sometimes requiring 2 or 3 passes to actually work. The Reward chances are no better than they were before (already gotten 2 forma BPs and a braton prime stock (like i need more of those). Will test more when i get the Void Segment for the liset. 

Iv already seen people calling it just another excavation mission... im inclined to agree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question about the fissures on Void nodes. (this may get a little confusing) if you are doing a fissure on the void tileset are you still able to get the necessary reactant to seal the void tear from the enemies who initially spawn in the mission (excluding the ones from the void tear)? If not how are you able to tell the difference? Shouldn't there be a way to distinguish regular void enemies from void tear enemies? (sorry if my sentence structure is confusing, I have no better way to explain it)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why don't move Formas and Forma BPs (+ rare resourses and packs of cores) to the old Void missions? Also, Void missions can drop Relics now. 

Only one thing my team was concerned about - farming fissures is already BORING. We did around 10 attempts, but it's boring now. The process of closing fissure must have some variety and scaling enemies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another problem... you originally removed the "drop chance" from the void in order to better "randomize" the chances... you have added that back in and its not very good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, did a little playtesting and digging, and I've found a pair of gaping flaws in this new system.

You Can't Run These Missions with Friends.

Lemme paint you a scene: Me and my friend here were about to tear into these Lith Relics to try and work on getting a Lith Void Fissure done. We notice a red flag right away: She can't select her own Relic to use, only I could. The inverse was true when she chose the mission first. I realize that your system is meant to cut down on leeching, but it is now actively preventing legitimate teams from using two or more relics together. Your only hope, to my gathered knowledge, is to dive headfirst into Pubs and hope to god that everyone in there not only has the same Relic as you, with the same level of Refinement, but also doesn't fail your original mission.

I'm cool with RNG for this system, especially if it means 4 rolls of a 6-item table that we can influence, but the problem is that you can't organize a mass table roll without being able to, well, organize it. 

So you can have 4 pub players running a mission blind, no idea who's bringing what, or what relics they have at what refinement, and you're still expected to clear the mission afterward? Then why not have a team of 4 friends, running the same relic, at a Radiant refinement, with a setup designed for the mission able to kill out the crazy spawning gold people, earn the drop table spread, beat the mission, and have a choice between 4 possible drops, hopefully one of them the coveted Rare drop? Your system discourages premade teams. Get this worked on, ASAP.

And on the subject of working on things ASAP:

Tons of Your Drops No Longer Exist!

So me and my friends who hoped to everything that this new update would fix the stupidly low chances to collect those pieces we wanted got a nice surprise when we perused all of our Relics to discover that none of Mag Prime's pieces were in the drop tables. None of the Boar Prime pieces, None of the Dakra Prime Pieces, and a hefty handful of other pieces we need are suddenly nonexistant in the drop table! Suddenly the weapons and Frames you've been working on completing are now unable to be completed!

A list of them happens to be:

Trinity Prime Neuroptics
Nova Prime Neuroptics
Carrier Prime Blueprint
Spira Prime Blueprint and Blade
Orthos Prime Blueprint
Burston Prime Blueprint and Reciever
Vasto Prime Blueprint
Vectis Prime Reciever and Stock
Soma Prime Barrel
Lex Prime Reciever
Nikana Prime Hilt
Braton Prime Reciever

Unless all of these pieces drop from new relics that no previous Key owners would already have, It's fair to say your current drop table is full of duplicate rewards that eat up the space these things could be occupying, and as a result, are now impossible to fully create without players in the market taking full advantage of these gaps in the table to charge ludicrous prices for the missing pieces. To all who seek to refute the list of missing pieces, I want Relic Eras and Numbers to validate the claims, otherwise, and this has been a problem well before now: Fix your Drop Tables!

Edit: Okay, turns out there are some new Relics still out there, but of course, some of us would have no clue what Relics these are, so all the same, I'm keeping this post here to list the relics these weapon pieces are attached to if I ever. I still stand by that the tables are filled with Duplicate drops, I mean just take a look at Meso C1; Two Saryn Prime Systems as Common Drops. That relic couldn't be more unappealing, to say nothing about the rash of duplicate pieces all through the relics as a whole.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really only have one major problem.

 

I have never complained about Nullies. They made me get off my butt and jump around to kill them. They didn't exactly fix the true issues they appeared to be addressing, but they weren't a chore, as some made them out to be.

Now, I have to complain about Nullifiers. In what world does it make sense to drop 30 level 50 nullifiers that are instantly at full range along with multitudes of other higher tier void enemies on players instantly? How are we supposed to react, much less counter this? It destroys the point of nullifiers. I mean, even past the fact that I can't kill anything because I can't shoot anything due to the fact that I simply can't shoot enough to get the bubbles down to reasonable level to actually kill things, but it's also near impossible to even see what's going on with nearly 20 nullifier bubbles, all of the auras, bombard fire, and then the apparent change in lighting the tear provides.

Honestly, I feel like the HIgh Tier enemy spam is a bug in and of itself. The Low tier to high tier enemy ratio is SO off. It feels like we're getting 5 Higher tier enemies to every 1 low tier enemy. It's silly and honestly makes me want to stay away.

It hardly even adds challenge. What it really adds is more frustration. After a couple of revives, things are finished. You just get ganked so fast that you just have to ignore the enemies that not only cancel any crowd control you could do, but they also block pretty much any shot that's on an enemy over 5 meters away (thanks nullies), and then the constant fire you're under yourself.

 

My suggestion would be to reverse the current spawn rates between higher tier enemies and lower tiers so we don't get nuked. I don't know if it's a bug or not, but this is pretty silly after nerfing Trin and Co. a few weeks back and saying that they'd also be balancing out enemies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How do you choose a relic to go on a void mission with. I tried 1 time and failed the fissure mission now i can not choose one again?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Arrjo said:

A small QoL feature I think everyone would like to see:
Please add the Ducat price of each item on the reward screen.
It's really annoying to find how much things are worth in the wiki list, and you have only 15 seconds to do this.

 

6 hours ago, NeedMoarBoolits said:

I agree with this, but I want to add that its also extremely helpful to see how many you have of each reward that is offered (so you can see when an item is new). Its tough remembering for an entire tier which items you do have and which ones you dont, unless you're at the point where you only need a few. Wouldn't want to confuse soma prime receiver with soma prime handle for example.


Chiming in with my agreement. I'd love to see this happen before the update makes it to consoles; they both sound like very good additions based on what I'm reading here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create a lobby UI for fissure missions, similar to the lobby UI for 8-player raids so we can see other players' chosen relic, if any.

DE took a step in the right direction with making keysharing more useful, but the obstacle of mistrust still remains

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Accidentally posted in wrong thread but was running into an issue with the fissure where if enemies almost never drop Reactant and when a corrupted finally does, it either vanishes from the ground or my hand. Plus if I am not pin point precise with my jumping, the reactant isn't used.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I posted this in another thread in response but to be safe I'll copy and post it here too

Definitely don't remove the nullifiers from the game. Don't let them spawn with their bubbles out when you trigger the void fissure. It instantly wipes any defenses you have makes buff based warframes pointless as these things literally spawn into existence on top of you and strips you of your defenses. If they just required a second or two of time after spawning in before activating their shields, players can at least have the time to get out of the AoE. Also, spawning 5-6 of these guys all at once is overkill because of the first problem, the area is instantly covered in gold domes and buff based warframes get kicked in the shin simply for being in the mission, not because anything the player has done or failed to do.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My biggest complaint about the Void 2.0 system is the enemy spawn rates, or rather the spawn methodology and weighting to the spawning.

Crewmen, Lancers and Butchers are the BASIC corrupted units, however the Void Fissures are spawning the high damage heavies on top of the players. As in, they warp in on the player's head. The tilesets need to be expanded because in close quarters, this leads to a situation of being overwhelemed, and the Corrupted Nullifier bubbles need to be recoloured. They look blinding on a non-Void tileset, especially the Grineer ship tiles, where there are areas of darkness and the brightness of the bubbles increase with overlapping.

The fissures are mainly spawning Corrupted Heavy Gunners, Corrupted Bombards and Corrupted Nullifiers like candy, this leads to three situations.
1. Corrupted Heavy Gunners using their Ground Stomp move, knocking down players and then the other gunners doing the same.
2. Corrupted Bombards spawning in and firing their Blast proc rockets at point blank range and knocking players down, with high Heavy Gunner and Bombards spawns, this becomes a knockdown fest of frustration.
3. Corrupted Nullifiers spawning in on top of the player with full bubbles, stripping players of their buffs. However this compounds the problem of the first and second afformentioned situations becuase the high numbers of nullifiers spawning causes rapid overlap of bubbles, meaning players have difficulty prioritising and killing the Bombards and Heavy Gunners knocking them down because there are multiple bubbles the player has to shoot through and have trouble escaping from the knock down procs, allowing the nullifiers to become an even more terrifying threat due to their sniper rifle being rather powerful (especially since they shoot outside the bubble whilst being protected from it)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I havent run the void fissures, but after running several missions of the Void section of the starmap and not receiving a reward worth playing the mission (not even a worthy ammount of credits) im wondering why are they still on the map? 

I get that you removed the grind from the void, but whats the point of keeping the missions if there is no point in playing them? I guess you could say for fun, but in a grind intensive game like this running a mission for no reward whatsoever is disappointing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to agree with most people here.

My impressions are mostly on the negative concerning Void Fissues. The relics have far less yields now compared to Keys of the past, and if we do NOT get more Relics, how can we expect to have enough Void Traces and rewards to do anything? You'd think that, with Void being that far out of the way in the new Starmap system, it's granted to make Void missions reward Relics. But if it doesn't reward even those, isn't that ironically counterintuitive?

In other words, I think that we need a greater quantity of Relics, and slightly more yield of Traces to stand a chance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Raven_Face said:

You'd think that, with Void being that far out of the way in the new Starmap system

Whats ironic is that the Void in the Star map has different entry points from other planets, and its not connected inside, so you move from mid/high level planets to low level void maps, and from other high level planets to mid/high level void maps. All for what? nothing, an ammount of credits that you can get anywhere else, or argon maybe. Why would you sit in a defense mission for 40 waves if its no longer a rewarding challenge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, John89brensen said:

Whats ironic is that the Void in the Star map has different entry points from other planets, and its not connected inside, so you move from mid/high level planets to low level void maps, and from other high level planets to mid/high level void maps. All for what? nothing, an ammount of credits that you can get anywhere else, or argon maybe. Why would you sit in a defense mission for 40 waves if its no longer a rewarding challenge.

On the point and hammer on the nail.

This is even worse than the mistake that led to the Stradavar's first stats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.