Void 2.0 Feedback [Megathread]

[FrostDragoon]

Also, from the wiki:

Quote

A player cannot own more than 100 Void Traces at the same time. Any excess Void Traces are discarded.

Why the F*** is this a thing? Seriously? Do away with this arbitrary cap. It just makes an already frustrating feature (Fissures) even more so.

[Hayzemet]

23 minutes ago, Ciaus said:

Warframe has always been set apart from other generic third person shooters by its WARFRAMES and their powers. 
Don't support losing the one damn thing that really makes this game unique and enjoyable for most because it's a "challenge". A contrived BS one that is still easily overcome by just bringing a limited variety of weapons and non-ability dependant tank frames. 

Staying alive as Saryn while spreading spores against level 70 grineer is very very far from easy, but you are still rewarded for using your powers well, in fact they are the main source of damage. Not all powers trivialise content, and in some cases certain CC powers *should* stop a group of enemies from being able to do anything. This is a horde shooter not CoD, and enemies should be designed with this in mind Doom style, not by just removing 70% of the game. The 70% that makes it different to any other game at that. 

Nullies spawn less already, plus if you want to use "powers" kill the damn nullifiers first, they die in one @(*()$ hit.

 

11 minutes ago, VRHmason said:

2. You play same mission over and over and over and over again no matter what (fissure)

WTF man, really? Fissure missions are of all kinds of missions, just that they have a fissure inside. Before you could do survival, exterminate and capture in the same tileset forever. Now you can do the same missions (plus spy, minus defense atm), but with a cool optional activity to kill some dudes, with at least 10 times more chances to get the part you desire, and not being stuck with the same faction and the same tilesets.

Trace farming is there to help us increase probability of dropping, 10%( not even counting the possibility of 4 rolls on a single run) rare chances were not even imaginable int he previous system. Ducats rain from the skies. What frames are "needed" to progress?

Edited July 11, 2016 by Hayzemet

[VRHmason]

Just now, Hayzemet said:

WTF man, really? Fissure missions are of all kinds of missions, just that they have a fissure inside. Before you could do survival, exterminate and capture in the same tileset forever. Now you can do the same missions (plus spy, minus defense atm), but with a cool optional activity to kill some dudes, with at least 10 times more chances to get the part you desire, and not being stuck with the same faction and the same tilesets.

Trace farming is there to help us increase probability of dropping, 10% rare chances were not even imaginable int he previous system. Ducats rain from the skies. What frames are "needed" to progress?

lol fissure mission is fissure mission inside some other type, you still do the same thing over and over again...

 

Tell me what is the difference in capture fissure mission or exterminate fissure mission? Are they really that different? What are you doing in all missions when farming traces? 

Let me spoil it for you...You do the same thing as in every other mission.


It is not optional if I want void rewards, which is the sole reason I and most of people do these mission. So no, fissure is not optional, if you don't do it you don't get anything.
More grind for more chance to drop it...hmm so what is different than before? Grind more void and you will eventually get prime part.

 

[FrostDragoon]

I'm starting to think Hayze might be a troll to not see how doing the Fissure mini-game in EVERY SINGLE MODE is even more repetitive than selecting the mode in old void.

 

Back to the math side of things, for those who are interested, here's the chart about refinement form the wiki:

Quote

Quality	Common	Uncommon	Rare
Intact (default)	76%	22%	2%
Exceptional	70%	26%	4%
Flawless	60%	34%	6%
Radiant	50%	40%	10%

This means that if everyone uses a Radiant key, you have a 1-(90/100)^4 = 34.39% chance for the rare drop.

Doing a second run: 1-(65.61/100)^2 = 56.95% chance at it (for 8 keys)

A third run: 71.75%

Fourth: 81.47%

It's unlikely for RNG to screw you over THIS badly, but it could. Here's some more salt in the wound.

Quote

A player cannot own more than 100 Void Traces at the same time. Any excess Void Traces are discarded.

So you have to go farm a whole set of them before each new attempt. Again, assuming you have a full squad all working together on this.

Edited July 11, 2016 by FrostDragoon

[Hayzemet]

13 minutes ago, VRHmason said:

lol fissure mission is fissure mission inside some other type, you still do the same thing over and over again...

 

Tell me what is the difference in capture fissure mission or exterminate fissure mission? Are they really that different? What are you doing in all missions when farming traces? 

Let me spoil it for you...You do the same thing as in every other mission.


It is not optional if I want void rewards, which is the sole reason I and most of people do these mission. So no, fissure is not optional, if you don't do it you don't get anything.
More grind for more chance to drop it...hmm so what is different than before? Grind more void and you will eventually get prime part.

 

Ok I agree but in a different tileset, with a different faction, there is a difference there, much greater than before. Do you have a better idea?

Well the name for starters is different, and the prequisite to finish the mission as well.

Yeah maybe you did not found the rift fast enough in survival, maybe your core is unstable and going to explode, the rift can be optional.

The difference comes in the numbers; Before the patch a rare drop was roughly between 1% and 2.5% chance to be dropped. Now it starts at 2.5% iirc, if you have a party of 4 people then you have 2.5% percentage, but 4 rolls, which automatically reduces time spent 1/4, so this reduces the grinding time. Now playing to get some Ducats from easy level missions is great, you can receive 15 traces and almost always 30-50 ducats per run, with that you can achieve 100 traces, and 300 Ducats in 7 runs (10 minutes each) which is equivalent to the time spent in a 60 minute defense with a rare drop chance of 2.5%. You finish your mission and then do another run but with 10% chance for each rare drop, already 4 times the probability, but also 4 rolls.

Tldr; time is divided by 4 (at least) while chances are increased by 4. And while gaining much more ducats, and that my friend is less grind.

 

Fantastic @FrostDragoon now do the same math with the old system would ya?

Edited July 11, 2016 by Hayzemet

[Bizzaro21]

uh, nope, fissures arent hard to find, a bigass orange thing that lotus tells u about once ur in its room, and this is better than grinding void over and over, corrupted are the lamest faction in the whole game, and im glad i can get prime stuff without having to fight them 24/7, but only during the fissure sealing

now onto ur post

1- that`s ur bad luck with squads, i mostly run into squads that can search for it non stop til they get it (literally 20 more minutes in surv. to find it, more than once)

2- and u didnt before? now u do so for like 4 minutes during fissure, before u would forever

3- your problem, i unlocked it all in first day

4- if u mean the open but locked door bug, then yea, this needs a fix

5- at least you dont have to do the same mission over and over, I dont see how the old system was better about htis

6- it was done so that people actually have a reason to play these missions, though I do agree its a bit dumb, should`ve been independent nodes that appear by themselves

have a nice day :D

peave

[AurumandArgentum]

Before this update, i entered the regular star chart for sorties, maybe, if it was worth it, yea no I'm lying I never touched the god damned thing, but now with this new system I actually see the rest of the game instead of the void, shocker, it's almost like that was the objective.

And OP if these few things that aren't even that bad is what makes you turn from the game, I'm just going to slap a giant K and move on, because it's not worth the argument.

[Dan1lo]

46 minutes ago, Guvna-D said:

When we were testing, it didnt seem to affect the amount of Void Traces, if we close it fast or waited until the last second.

If you look into more threads, people are doing Nekros/Hydroid strategies and are mentioning more void trace drops in those cases.

[Radjehuty]

I'm so confused by your post here OP.

First of all, I have not once had a problem of squads leaving a mission early because if you're in a map with a void fissure, chances are everyone is going there specifically for that fissure. I've yet to find a squad that just leaves early.

They're not that hard to find and Lotus does well enough to tell me I'm in the same room. However I wouldn't mind something graphical if I get close enough.

The whole idea that you think Void burnout wasn't a thing is completely bogus. I can't tell you how many times I saw people complaining for months and months that they're bored of grinding the same missions in the void and this is what DE came up with to solve it. Technically, it worked since now void fissures can spawn anywhere.

"Targeted farming" hasn't gone anywhere. You just choose the relic you want to use based on the rewards it gives you. That's targeted farming, even if you use that relic in different tilesets depending on where it spawned.

Your complaint about progression isn't even a real complaint. The whole point of the star chart is to give some feeling of progression and it achieved that. Yes it sucks for those of us that already unlocked everything, but that's not a complaint about the star chart. That's a complaint about a lack of end-game for advanced players.

You claimed it's not more rewarding than before. Actually, yes it is, in the sense that you can bring 3 of your buddies to use the SAME relic as you and you have 4 times the likelihood of getting what you want. Even more if you decided to use up any void traces.

There are problems with this update, but most of it is glitches. We can all expect them to be fixed soon enough.

The only thing that the void fissure system did NOT fix is the "Draco syndrome" in this game. Nothing about the new star chart solved anything about that. Normal missions do NOT feel any more rewarding than they have previously.

I just don't understand the hate for the void fissure thing. Yes it needs to be polished, but it's a great concept that has potential.

[kennylagenz]

8 hours ago, Ferah_Frithu said:

I. I play with a gamepad, and at least 50% of the game is impossible to navigate to/from with a gamepad, and I have to switch to the mouse and keyboard. Kinda killing my flow there.

 

ive been playing this game with a gamepad since U7 and i have never had any navigation problems

[felixsylvaris]

Void overdose made me stop playing 3 months before.

Now, "Void" is just a regular mission with small knack, and i think that regular missions are best part of Warframe. Reall, Warframe have this nice procedural generated maps, and should do everything to make use of them.

There are some small issues, like rift visibility, or tracers drop rate/place, or relics drop locations (some of them are very rare)

That is something to fix.

[FrostDragoon]

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Void_Traces

Quote

Farming techniques

While a Void Fissure mission will yield around ten Void Traces ordinarily, the rate of acquisition can be improved as follows:

• Void Traces drops are affected by Resource Booster.
• Nekros' Desecrate and Hydroid's Tentacle Swarm with the Pilfering Swarm augment both work on fissure-spawned enemies, and can cause them to drop additional Traces.
• Ivara's Prowl can steal additional Traces from Eximus enemies.

 

[Arkvold]

Let's talk about Fissure spawning for a moment.

I've seen Lith Fissures spawn in the Void, and on Ceres, and late-game planets like Pluto.  Whereas Axi Fissures can spawn on early-game planets like Mars.

Due to the new Junction system, it can be impossible to get to Lith Fissures for newer players.  Similarly, newer players might try an Axi Fissure on a low level planet and get thoroughly stomped, leading to bad first impressions of the Fissure system.

Worse yet, some Junctions require you to seal certain Fissures to progress through them.  If the Junction requires Lith Fissures, but the only Lith Fissures are in the Void which you can't reach, you're kinda outta luck until the Fissures change locations.

It'd be best if Fissure spawning was weighted towards specific planets or planet sets, to ensure that Fissures cannot spawn in places that make junctions that require fissure seals impossible.  It would resolve the problems with Phobos Junction on Mars, among other things, and ensure a better newbie experience.

[Lem1no]

7 hours ago, Chushingura said:

I think its more rewarding

It's not

[FrostDragoon]

24 minutes ago, Hayzemet said:

Fantastic @FrostDragoon now do the same math with the old system would ya?

Yeah, I said earlier the chances were better. My OP was wrong about that. It doesn't change how frustrating the rest of it is, though.

[TennoPain]

All of my IRL friends left the game after this update and im alone 

So many of us predicted this and now we have lost massive amount of players 

And a lot of them will never return

so sad so sad 

[FrostDragoon]

Yeah. Since the new "eras" are just a rename for the old tiers, just place them appropriately. T1 in 10-20 zones, T2 in 20-30, T3 in 30-40, etc. It's totally fine to not have any in the 0-10 zones.

[Necrius]

Also Prime Vault appears to be staying, so this change is absolutely pointless, apart from leaving us with less rewards and another way to fail any mission.

[FrostDragoon]

I'm not sure if I'm going to play or not. I'm definitely done spending on the cash shop until some major improvements in the new void system come through, though.

[Pizzarugi]

8 hours ago, Trichouette said:

6) That's actually the only way to remove the void fatigue, by puting prime part obtention anywhere else but in the void. Personally I prefer this over going into the void again and again.

I'm not agreeing with OP that fissures was a bad idea (I personally like it), but I am disagreeing with this statement.

Unfortunately, that also makes the void itself completely pointless to access on the star chart. The only time people will go there now is if a fissure pops up, but it will become just as abandoned as the moon tileset. I thought the void tileset was great, with everything clean and high-tech, finished off with opulent music which contributed to the atmosphere of what the Orokin were like before the Tenno ruined everything.

Now I have absolutely no reason to go there anymore, there's nothing special that drops from there to give me any reason to return.

[TARINunit9]

8 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

My #1 complaint is that the fissures don't show up on the map, so we have to do this stupid f**king goose chase to find them

I've never found them outside the most linear path between Start and Extract. They're not like sabotage caches

[Ubung]

Im ok with the way they have implemented the fissure system for the normal missions but Im definitely very disappointed with the way they have left the endless missions. I think after 4 waves / 20 mins / 20 waves (int, surv, def) these game modes should stop and a fissure should appear which you have to defeat. Then again at 8 / 40 / 40 but with an increased level and on and on till you stop. For each fissures beaten once chance at loot via the relic system.

 

This would still allow for the need for optimizing frames and weapons while still letting normal people leave at 20 and get there item through the relic system.

 

EDIT: As an added note this would mean people who really dislike endless missions dont have to do this at all as the reward is tied to the relic not the mission so they can just do another mission.

[TheScytale]

OH NOES

I HAVE TO DO DIFFERENT MISSIONS

I HAVE TO PROGRESS THROUGH THE SOLAR MAP

I CAN'T ACCESS T4 AFTER 1H OF GAMEPLAY

I HAVE TO PLAY THROUGH ALL THE TILESETS

WHY DE???

 

While I do agree that "Seal X fissures" shouldn't be a junction task, I disagree with everything else in the original post. Eris, Sedna, Saturn, Uranus had way more nodes than they do now, and most junctions have interesting tasks you can do along your way. Advance through the handful of nodes left instead of whining.

[Shockwave-]

4 hours ago, notlamprey said:

I uh... I really like the new system.

I'll agree that sometimes the fissures take a while to find. It can be irritating.

I sort of don't know what to tell people about the nullifiers, though. I tend to stay right near the fissure, and having them spawn right on top of me is actually ideal because it means I'm already inside the bubble to deliver swift death. I don't find it difficult, I really don't.

It sucks that so many people are having a bad time with the fissures, but I'm having more fun than I ever did. Being able to jump into a public game and get better loot in less time than before is pretty wonderful. Just give it a chance.

Maybe it's the sort of system that only works for some people who are "thinking about it the right way" or something. Maybe you have to magically understand it in order to enjoy it, and only some people are ever going to get that experience. I dunno.

It's possible that this new system really dumps on players who don't have great equipment yet. I'm a veteran with everything, and I mean everything, so it's possible that I'm totally blind to a lot of new difficulty.

It sucks that people aren't having fun; no argument there. Just try to give it a chance, and try running with groups if you don't like the hunt for the fissure. Let's just please not riot and tell DE to throw it in the trash just yet. I kept learning and learning about how it all works, and I'm really glad I did. Give it time, folks.

Yeah you only need to do it a half dozen times to "give it time" it's the same 2 min drill over and over. It's terrible compared to the variety and comradarie of the void. There is nothing to theis new void tear, nothing interesting. The mission you are playing otherwise is pointless. They wrapped a 1-2 minute void excavation in run of the mill star chart missions nobody wanted to play anyway. 

it is a terrible boring system.

[notlamprey]

Just now, Shockwave- said:

Yeah you only need to do it a half dozen times to "give it time" it's the same 2 min drill over and over. It's terrible compared to the variety and comradarie of the void. There is nothing to theis new void tear, nothing interesting. The mission you are playing otherwise is pointless. They wrapped a 1-2 minute void excavation in run of the mill star chart missions nobody wanted to play anyway. 

it is a terrible boring system.

I dunno what to tell you; I don't find it terrible or boring.

If you're talking about camaraderie, it was the kind that we absolutely don't need - the brotherhood of shared pain and suffering. We can do better.

OF COURSE the "mission you are playing otherwise" is going to seem pointless when it isn't the reason you're there. Extrinsic motivation; the task is always "boring" or "repetitive" if you only consider it a means to an end. That's how humans work.

There isn't really anything in your complaint for me to discuss; it's all rooted in human psychology, so I don't have anything helpful to give you other than to suggest that you find a different way of looking at it. Even that isn't really a helpful thing to say.