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[DE]Taylor

Void 2.0 Feedback [Megathread]

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New changes after last patch:

  • Reward rarity indicator.
  • Enemies have much shorter invulnerability period after corruption.

These changes are very good, thank you.

 

Problems that require changes:

  • Late-joining and slow players cannot find enough reactant before EOM.
  • Endless and longer-than-capture missions are very undesirable.
  • Sabotage caches go unsearched.

 

My personal opinions that may or may not be factual:

  • No reliable way to target desired relics has made prime farming more hostile to a casual playing schedule.
  • No possibility of multiple rewards per mission (or any reward for effort) offers no illusion of skill > RNG.
  • Repeating the same short missions for random (and often meager) rewards is not engaging.
  • These missions are in the same tilesets used to farm relics, which encourages burn-out of the entire game instead of just one small area.
  • The void tileset goes unused.

 

Thanks for reading!

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I believe the reactant collection should be a collective effort. Too many times have I insisted on knowing if everyone has acquired reactant only to have maybe one other in chat communicate and then find that the others have not and end up with only two rewards to choose from. There currently is no way of knowing what (if any) relics are equipped by your teammates.

It is clearly in everyone's best interest to collect reactant regardless of what your goal in a fissure mission in so why not have the collection of it be a single pool of perhaps 25 reactant for the entire team to contribute to the collection of; much like the collection of life support drops which go to a collective pool of life support.

I think this is a far better alternative despite the added risk of having idle players (which is a danger/annoyance in any other mission type anyway).

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They need to remove fissures from spy missions, there is no way to stealthing through anything when a bombard decides to spawn on your forehead.

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I regularly have people not get enough reactant, give up and just leave the mission.

Not only do I feel bad for them but I feel bad for my diminished reward choices.

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On 22/08/2016 at 5:59 AM, Nox_Terminus said:

They need to remove fissures from spy missions, there is no way to stealthing through anything when a bombard decides to spawn on your forehead.

Worst part is, in grineer vault with 2 lasers that focus on console fissure actually triggers alarm. It spawns new enemies, they walk into lasers and trigger alarms. It's shocking. Spy missions should have no fissure spawn, all enemies should start corrupted. 

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2 hours ago, (PS4)Lord_Gremlin said:

all enemies should start corrupted. 

That's it! All enemies should be corrupted from the very start in every single mission. No more spamming nullifiers in your face or on top of you!

Also, the whole "dark energy" that corrupts them only slows players down. For example you need to shoot some of them twice, because they were invulnerable during the transformation. That and the whole reactant farming - you could start collecting it as soon as the mission starts, you don't have to wait for some weird thing to happen.

Yeah... That's a change that would sure fix a lot of things. Now if only DE was reading this...

(That could also help endless missions comeback. Js.)

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And after almost two moths of updates and even getting some new (good) content, the Void Fissure system is still full of blatant issues...

1) Endless missions are pretty much pointless. As in... there's nothing endless about them anymore. It's the same mission as every other: get 10 reactant || unlock extraction || Leave. Absolutely no point in staying any longer than it takes to gather 10 reactant. 
2) Some missions drop barely enough reactant to gather 10 and unlock your relic - which also means that anyone with a slow connection or technical problems that loads in late has very little chance of actually gather enough reactant to unlock their relic. On the other hand some missions give an abundance of reactant that has no pourpuse other than littering the ground and your HUD with waypoints showing you which way a useless (at that point) yellow orb is lying around.
3) New primes mean you need to farm new relics, because they add relics, and not just update reward tables like it happened with Keys.
4) Missions that incentive Stealth are impossible to actually complete in stealth. Spy and Rescue missions are absolutely destroyed by the fact that enemies can just spawn right next to you while you're in the middle of a very intricate and time-sensitive jumping puzzle. The fact that a heavy grineer unit can just spawn right up your backside and knock you down - right into an alarm trigger most likely - is unacceptable. Oh, and did I mention that if a corrupted unit goes through the triggers that alarm goes off, so eve if they spawn away from you, they can still make all and any stealth effort you've made absolutely void (ba-dum-tss)?
 

Ok, so... since I don't want to seem like just another kid crying "Mom, I hate those changes, fix it!", here are a couple of ideas that I think would finally make the Fissure system a viable replacement to void Keys, as right now I feel like we've been robed of a system that worked just fine and instead given a half-working unfinished placeholder of a system.

1)Since the Fissure system gives the player some influence on the RNG, I'm thinking that it could be a part of making endless missions worthwhile. For example, using survival mission terminology: After the first 5 minutes - extraction unlocks and if you leave with 10 reactant, you get a reward from your relic. If you make it to 10 minutes, one of the common is deleted from the drop table, so other rewards are more likely (the one top of the reward table perhaps?). And every next 5 minutes thereafter would delete another most-common reward from the table, so that the longer you stay in the mission, the more likely it is to receive a more rare reward.
-I know that's a lot of RNG control (as doing a 30 minute mission would guarantee a rare reward) but honestly I would like to see an actual influence on the RNG, not just an ambiguous bar that says "yeah, you have a better chance of getting something better. yeah, I promise". That being said, it could also be made in a way that every additional 5 minutes gives you a better chance of a rare reward - as if upgrading your relic, even beyond radiant.

2) Something that ensures enough reactant is dropped is the obvious answer. Many people on the forums also thing that gathering reactant should be tied to the party running the mission, rather than Player-specific, which I don't think is a bad idea and could resolve many issues. As for surplus reactant, I think it should be tied somehow with traces. Before, we could farm traces from enemies, but now they're just a random drop after the mission. On principle, you'l have to spend AT LEAST 5 relics in order to refine another relic (you can get 100 traces in 4 missions, but that's highly unlikely) which means only 1in6 relics will be radiant. I am fine with traces being an EOM reward, but there should be some way of increasing it by a set amount, for example - every surplus reactant you gather gives you a bonus 1-5 traces.

3) Well.... other than DE updating already existing relic rewards I don't really see any simple way to negate the grind required by farming new relics that contain new prime rewards. Perhaps with the release of the new prime rewards there could be a series of alerts that reward you with the new relics? Or perhaps a way to transform your relics into another relic using traces - for example a price of 50 traces if both relics are the same level, 20 if you're changing a higher level relic into a lower level, and the price would rise by 50/level if you wanted to change a low level relic into a high level one? (so turning an Lith relic to an Axi relic would cost 200 traces (50+3*50).

4) Making so that Spy/Rescue missions are never Fissure missions would be the easy way out, although I think there's a far more pressing problem here. That is the fact that enemies can spawn right next to you... Sure, it's manageable for the most part, but it is obnoxious and in most games that's considered a bad design. I mean, normal enemies don't spawn right in your face, the system attempts to "hide" the spawning so it seems more immersive - the enemies come from adjacent rooms instead, but you never really see them pop into existence. That being said, since I somewhat understand the lore impact of Fissures, I propose a simple solution: In my opinion there should be a sort of invulnerability range around every player - not a large one, but perhaps the size of a Nullifier's bubble - in which no new enemies can spawn. Enemy spawned by other enemies would be excluded from that no-spawn zone, so they can be summoned freely(e.g. Hyekka and Hyekka masters)
The fact that multiple heavy units can spawn right next to you and instantly knock you down, or a nullyfier (or multiple for that matter) can just pop up between your legs and instantly deprive you of life-saving abilities (like Loki's invisibity) is frustrating and makes the game seem like it has to rely on cheap tricks to be difficult. In any other situation you'd either avoid the particular enemy, or apply some for of tactic dealing with it. But having it suddenly spawn right on top of you gives you no chance to react and basically deprives the player of any control. It's a simple issue I have: forcing a player to priorities an enemy like the nullyfier is a good way to make the game difficult.... making them spawn right on top of you and giving the player no chance to react, that's just cheap and unfair "difficulty".

So there... 4th time I've addressed the issues with the new Fissure system. That's 4:0 in regards to DE's adressing them, and 0/3 (since the spawning is more of an annoyance and questionable game mechanic than an actual problem) issues that have been fixed over the last two months.
I don't want to sound malicious, and I'm not all that mad. But it is annoying to know that all those issues are still there, and instead of addressing them, new content with new issues is released.
I'm not really one for conspiracy theories, but it also seems like DE's just hoping we'll either forget about those problems, or like Ancient Romans (who used Gladiator arenas to distract citizens from famine and plague) they're just giving us shiny new content so we stop whining about the stuff that needs fixing

And even though those issues are annoying, I love the game and I respect the hell out of Digital Extremes for creating a game this incredible and allowing everyone to play it for free. 

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Since the new system has been applied the RNG may have been reduced when acquiring primes from relics. Right now all of the relics can be found in endless missions with the exception of spy, and usually are grouped together tightly that its more likely that you get a relic you don't want rather than the specific one they are looking for, this adds to the RNG specially with the way primes are introduced. We can no longer stock up on relics before a prime is released, I have no qualms with this decision but in light of Nekros Primes' release I see that there is a slight difficulty in acquiring specific relics. Specifically the relics that only drop in Rotation B and C. These relics require you to stay in 20mins surv/4waves int/20waves def for a chance to roll 1 out of the current 8 Axi relics plus other rewards such as endo. 

 

I would like to suggest to put some of the other non-endless mission type into some use and give them a chance to reward players with relics. As of right now, there really isn't much reason to play non-endless missions like exterminate or deception unless its part of an alert/invasion/void rift. This may give players a way to target specific relics and will put purpose on those mission types that most players only play just to clear the map. Now since this may cause a great disturbance in the whole game I would like to suggest the the great majority of the relics moved to these mission be the older relics and having the new ones stay in endless missions. 

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The relic grind is absolute trash, just like I'd feared. Today I started farming for Nekros et al and after 5 hours I have nothing to show for it, despite obtaining and running over a half-dozen brand new relics, and I was only looking for common and uncommon drops. Some of the Relics had a new part in both the common and uncommon drop, and guess what? Forma. I even spent over 200 Traces for the Uncommons!

Nobody came to Warframe for the grind.

I'd have been better off spending that time at work and just buying the PA, but then I'd have nothing left to do (again)!

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Improved the RNG on void farming but also nerf the droprate on relic farming.

2000 Cryo in Hieracon with only 1 relic drop! Seriously? How counterproductive can this get?

 

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Alrighty then, so why don't You consider changing the way it "farms" the items. Drop the relics, which are tediously rare to get if you don't spend whole days farming them, and then put a vendor, that allows us to exchange said relic to it's parts selection - but, sacrificing said amount of void  fragments to actually get the uncommon/rare ones. Bam! problem solved, grinding gets a 1D and not a whole edgy "I need 48hr day every day" thing. This really has little to no impact as for the actual gameplay, and also creates the desired "less grinding with RNG" status.

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I knew this was coming, but didn't think it right to complain until it actually dropped.

We can't farm relics/keys in preperation for new prime gear being released. As a veteran player who lives on content patches, there is now zero reason for me to play between these updates as I can do nothing to prepare for them. As PublkDomain points out;

3 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

I'd have been better off spending that time at work and just buying the PA, but then I'd have nothing left to do (again)!


After SotR I've generally been playing endless missions (Tycho & Ophelia almost exclusicly, my void substitutes) which reward me with relics I don't want or need. I was literally giving them away; every trade I would fill the slots with relics just to get rid of them. Under the old system I would have a stock pile of keys ready for the new prime release. Thanks to this void 2.0 now I have to go farm even more relics.

All that said, I haven't been farming the new relics because I simply cannot stomach void fissures. Galatine was the one weapon in the game I wanted primed, but the thought of running those flustercluck fissures is simply too much. Once the market becomes flooded with the prime gear, maybe I'll trade for them.

 

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wtf is going on with void trace drops?  every single fissure i've run today has rewarded less than 10 traces.  I much more preferred the OLD system wherein I could guarantee that I'd get 50-60 traces EVERY SINGLE RUN by using certain frames and play styles.  I complained in general about this after a bunch of neo fissures gave 9 traces each and was told "oh yeah, lith fissures give the most, go do lith fissures"...  well, the only lith fissure was a sabotage which took forever simply because nobody could find any reactants anywhere and after 15 minutes in a single mission that should've taken 5, I got 9 more traces.  woohoo!  This system is messed up when low lvl missions don't spawn enough reactants to complete in a timely fashion (they take twice as long as axi fissures) and the traces you're given aren't comparable to the effort applied in any way.  How about making trace drops hinge on mission performance in some capacity?  A long survival could multiply your traces every 5 mins, or a sabotage could multiply your traces for each cache found.  Short missions like captures and exterminates could reward more traces for the shortest completion times.  This completely RNG-dependent system is a load of garbage and is just as grindy as the original void system, if not more so.  At least in the old void system, good performance and skill on endless missions rewarded you with more stuff per key.

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Okay... I wanted to give my feedback on the void 2.0 systems and changes, and address the specific concerns and advantages the new system provides.  I would've posted feedback sooner, but I wanted to give it time to 'settle' and to experience all of its new mechanics - that required waiting for a new release or an unvaulting.  With Nekros Prime, that's happened, and I've carefully watched the system.

This feedback is from a player's-eye view, and might not take into consideration what you need from a developer's side.  That's up to you to provide.  Fair warning, this is going to be a lot of text, I don't blame you if you don't want to read it (really, the only people who really do need to is the staff at DE), but I do want to ask that you read it entirely before commenting, as I'm not gonna TL;DR it for you.  Too many points being made here to be laconic.

The first and biggest point: has the new Void system reduced the grind?  Well, the answer is yes and no, depending on what metrics you consider the grind.  First the good part - it is far easier to get the part you want in fewer runs once you have the relics and a keyshare team to do it.  The ability to 'manipulate' the RNG and bring very rare items down to 'uncommon' rarity is fantastic, as is the ability to get four chances at the item you want from a relic instead of just one.

The problem is, you have to either wait or grind or both for these privileges.  To get void traces, you have to run fissure missions either without a relic, or with relics you don't want anything from.  This means more missions before you can actually do the mission that has the thing you want.  You also have to find three other people willing to run the same relic as you, preferably also refined to Radiant quality, which means waiting around in LFG chat hoping there's three other people online who play at the same time as you and want the same thing as you, and hope that there's no scumbags among them who'll join with a non-Radiant relic or some other relic that doesn't have what you need.  Further, if someone does go scumbag, it's very hard to avoid starting the mission since you can only see their relic once they've readied up (and they will always ready last for maximum troll factor).

Worse still, you have to get the relics in the first place.  Under the old system, existing keys would be repopulated with new drop tables as new items were released.  You could farm once and use 'em forever.  Now you can't - this creates a lot of 'wasted' relics and 'wasted' time spent farming things you no longer want or need, and requires that you spend more time farming the new relics every time you want something new.

Thus, if you want to have the best chances of getting the item you want in the fewest runs, you have to endure a triple grind and an annoying wait: the Relic grind, the Trace grind, the LFG wait, and finally the Item grind.  In particular, that last one is still a grind, even if it's shorter, because you're in no way guaranteed to get what you want.  The odds are better but in no way guaranteed.

Let's look at the cost of these grinds.  First the Relic grind, which requires playing Endless, Reactor Sabotage, or Spy missions.  Most Endless missions are going to run you about 30 minutes.  Maybe a bit less for a good Excavation team that can run two Excavators at once for most of a mission.  Maybe more for a Defense mission if the mobs don't cooperate and get hung up on terrain.  Excavation is far-and-away the best source of relics, as you can get twenty rewards in the same time it'd take you to get six in survival and four in Defense and Interception.  Either way, you're not guaranteed to get the relic you want, even if you're playing a mission at the right level to get it, and these missions, while soloable, are best handled in teams.  This can mean more LFG waiting, depending on how available and necessary a team is for you.  Worse still, you need a supply of the correct relic - at least five to ten depending on how lucky you feel.  Doing the rough math, I'd say it'd take you about seven or so missions at a minimum to get a workable supply of a given relic, assuming you're statistically prepared to do so or have a sufficiently-strong team.

Now comes the void trace grind, which consists entirely of bumrushing the relics you got but don't want or running relic-less fissure missions for Void Traces.  You need 100 void traces to get each of those relics to Radiant, which on average means about 7-13 missions, at 8-20 void traces per.  You can increase that with kavat abuse and resource drop chance boosters, but the former's RNG as to whether you get that bonus and the latter means spending plat, and I'm discussing the cost of plat-free reliable trace grind.

Now let's say you don't have to worry about the LFG wait because you have a team already.  Now comes the actual runs.  Now you could get lucky and get it in the first run - it's very possible with four radiant relics of the same kind and three other people who've refined theirs to radiant.  But it could take you all 10 relics, and even then if RNG really hates you, you might not get it and have to do this all over again.  Chances are small but not infinitesimal.  I find that even with 1-in-10 odds, that 1 will come up far more often than you'd like - just how the RNG in games like these tends to run.

But here's the kicker - in foresight, getting three other people who've gone through this kind of grind for the same item is a good idea, because it's four chances to get the item you want.  In hindsight however, three of those people (the three people who didn't get the item everyone wanted) are going to waste their relics for nothing.  Neither viewpoint is technically wrong, but the hindsight viewpoint is going to leave a bitter taste in players' mouths.  It's the difference between a, "Yes, finally!" positive response and a "Ugh, finally" negative response.

It's also very hard to get three other people who've gone through a similar grind for the exact same goal as you.  It is a LOT of time investment to get a relic, and then refine it to Radiant.  People have different priorities, different goals, different amounts of available play time, and unless these line up with your priorities, goals, and available play time exactly, you aren't getting a team.  Further, people get desperate to get a run, any run just to get it over with, which promotes scumbag behavior - not running radiant in a radiant relicshare, running something other than the agreed-upon relic, etc.  Which if it happens and you run the mission to completion, hurts your chances of getting what you want.  Not running the mission to completion leaves a black mark on your record in the form of an abandoned mission.  While I'll admit that most people aren't as OCD as I am about that, that still bothers me.

Now let's look at the long-term economic effects.  More people are getting exactly what they want (after grinding relics, then traces, then the actual item) - but in terms of items gotten per relic used, the amount of available items has dropped precipitously.  This means that a lot of the common-level 'junk' prime items no longer exist in as great of quantities as they used to.  Every prime on the market cost someone a relic, and possibly cost as many as four relics to get.  Compare that with the old Endless void missions, which could reward half a dozen or more prime items for a single key, depending on just how far you were willing to take it.  As people work through their stock of 'junk' relics (assuming they're willing to do so and don't burn out in the process - I see a lot of people who are), and are forced to farm new ones, I'd expect to see a sharp drop in the number of prime parts both on the market, and being fed to Baro Ki'Teer.  Yet Baro's prices remain roughly the same.

Now, you might be thinking, "all this grind must make our Prime Access pack look attractive, right?"  Well... not so much.  People with a lot of disposable income will skip any degree of grind with their wallet if they want to.  Those without a lot of disposable income will weigh the cost.  Further, they don't have just two options - buy the prime or farm the prime, they actually have four.  The other two are ignore the prime and quit the game.

Now let me give you a little insight as to how this decision-making process works, and what determines whether or not your Prime Access pack gets bought by someone who's on the fence about skipping the grind.  First, they gotta consider what they're getting: to get everything in Prime Access currently, the cost is $140 USD.  This is two weapons, one warframe, all with free slots & reactors/catalysts; one armor set; one syandana; 90-day affinity and credit boosters; and about 4k platinum.

$140 bucks is a big investment to ask for an MMO space-ninja mission-shooter.  Gonna say that right now.  That's almost half a week's paycheck on a 30-hour workweek at $10/hour.  $140 would just about buy a bachelor food for an entire month if he's a careful shopper (as a bachelor myself I'm speaking from experience).  $140 is gas money for a month or two, depending on gas prices around here.  That's five or ten or so decent games off Steam, more if the titles you consider 'decent' are particularly cheap.  That's two or three AAA titles, or about a year of subscription time on any other MMO.  I could buy Lifetime premium subscription access to Champions Online for about that much, last time I checked.

So the savvy shopper is going to look at this, and ask themselves, "Is skipping the grind, and getting two weapons and a warframe and some neat exclusive cosmetics gonna give me $140 worth of enjoyment?  More than two to ten games, or a year of subscription to the other MMOs I may or may not play?  Is it worth the equivalent of a month of food or a month of gas money?"  If it's me, the answer's going to be a pretty firm "no" but that's just me.

This is the decision-making process you've got to weigh your Grind and Prime Access against.  Sure, you could increase the grind to make Prime Access look more valuable, but there's a flipside to that.  When you're asking a big lump-sum purchase like that, $140 bucks, the decision is not so much between "pay or grind" anymore.  It's "pay or ignore" or worse, "pay or quit."

Furthermore, your Prime Access is competing with the player market.  The only real reasons to buy Prime Access are the things you can't get other ways than purchasing them from DE - the Prime Accessories and the Credit/Affinity boosters.  The Plat can be earned by trading with other players, as can the Prime Warframes and Weaponry.  When given the choice of paying $140 directly to you for them, and getting a couple cosmetics and some boosters as a reward, and paying a couple hundred plat (about $20 worth) to a couple of traders, and then spending three and a half days to craft the parts, I'd take the market's option.  From the viewpoint of players, the accessories are not worth $120.  It's a good thing you sell them separately for $50; I bet the Prime Accessories sell a lot more than your actual Prime Access packs.  If a wallet warrior wants to skip the grind of getting a prime, the player market is probably a better investment of their money than Prime Access.  Either way, DE is getting money (someone has to pay for that platinum, after all), but if you want to make Prime Access appealing, it's got to be appealing on its own merits - otherwise, people are going to look for alternatives to it, just like they look for alternatives to the grind.

I'll be honest with you - there's only one thing for veterans to do on this game.  Get new stuff and play with it.  If they can't get their new stuff for either a reasonable grind or a reasonable price tag, they're not going to just ignore it.  They're going to drop the game entirely because there's nothing to do in it.  Furthermore, when you start increasing grind to make the pay option look more attractive, you start offending non-veterans as well. People are going to look at the grind, and look at the price tag for skipping it, and they're going to say, "well crap they don't care about making a fun game, they just want my money.  Heck with this."  and leave.

I'll admit, that was a lot of words just to illustrate a problem, but heck if I'm not thorough.  Now let's talk solutions.  Here's a few suggestions and hopefully some insight.

Players want the option to grind something out that is not interminable or irritating.  You put in your work, you get your new toy, then you go play with it until it's boring.  You know what grinds in Warframe don't get complained about much?  Quests.  Quest warframes.  They don't hardly get complained about at all unless the quest is broken or unfun to do.  Why?  Because they're guaranteed.  There is little to no RNG involved.  You do your work, you put in your time, you make the effort, and you experience some lovely lore and worldbuilding and bam, at the end of it all you got your cool stuff to show for it.  It's a grind, yes, but it's a grind only of time and effort - the result is never in doubt.  Some of these quests are long - look at The New Strange.  Some are irritating.  Look at The Limbo Theorem.  Some require some mental gymnastics and knowledge - look at Hidden Messages if you do it without a guide.  Some are hard and grindy - look at Sands of Inaros.  But they don't get complained about much unless they're straight-up broken because the result is never in doubt.

It's not the length of the grind that's the issue.  It's the fact that the result of the grind is not guaranteed, and that all of your efforts to guarantee it might come to nothing, leaving you feeling gypped because you put in all that effort and got, at best, a consolation prize.  This is why the Prime item grind is complained about!  It's why it was complained about in the old void system!  It's why it's still complained about now!  In fact in some ways it's worse now because there are ways you can invest time and effort into improving your drop rate, only to have it come to nothing.  Nothing feels worse than putting in a lot of effort into carefully husbanding your resources, only to finally spend those resources and not get what you hoped for.  At least with the old void, you went in basically knowing that most of your runs would come to nothing.  You also didn't have to waste a time doing runs in order to do the runs.  You just did the runs, come-what-may, making it far more friendly to people with limited time to play.  In some ways, the old void was better - at least in terms of not leaving a bad taste in your mouth once you finally succeeded.

If all you want is for players to spend a long time to get the prime items they want, then go ahead and increase the grind - but make the results of going through it absolutely guaranteed.  Then offer Prime Access as a means of skipping the grind.  Further, drop the price of Prime Access.  You're asking way, way too much for it.  Whenever you're asking people to spend three digits in USD, on some virtual toys and cosmetic items in a game, people are going to raise eyebrows and make comparisons to the other things they could get with that money.  Lowering the price should drastically increase sales, as those comparisons would no longer be made and it would be more within the 'disposable income' amounts for a wider variety of players.  If Prime Access were $60-70 for the Shadow pack, with a corresponding decrease in the other two, I'd consider buying it.

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A lot of great points by @Arkvold, I think this one in particualar is very true;

7 hours ago, Arkvold said:

But here's the kicker - in foresight, getting three other people who've gone through this kind of grind for the same item is a good idea, because it's four chances to get the item you want.  In hindsight however, three of those people (the three people who didn't get the item everyone wanted) are going to waste their relics for nothing.

If you have a squad of 4 and none of the raidant relics yeild the desired part that is a hell of a lot of wasted time. At best, 1 of them will yeild the reward, meaning that 75% of the time and energy invested by those 3 players was simply a waste.

I had this happen to me last night; Radiant Axi G1 (for Galatine Prime) and the rewards offered were Nekros Prime Chassis OR Galatine Prime BP, this would have been great, except we can only choose one. In the old system, while the drop rates were 'lower', at least if we would have had a chance at the common drop (Nekros Chassis) on rotation A/B and then a chance at Galatine Prime BP on Rotation C. I played about 3hours last night, and only earned one Axi G1 relic. During that 3 hours; I wasn't farming traces, so adding those two grinds together and its a metric sh!t tonne of grinding just to get the ONE chance at ONE item.

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I have a suggestion to make knowing that all the squad has enough reactants : make a reactant counter for each player . I mean its really annoying to keep asking your teammates , and not knowing if everyone's has all 10 . ust a suggestion me and my friend thought of .

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Personally, I love the new system. It could use a bit tweaking in the way of challenge and teamplay, but yeah, its great.

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On 25/08/2016 at 0:38 AM, SoulOfTheHunter said:

A lot of great points by @Arkvold, I think this one in particualar is very true;

If you have a squad of 4 and none of the raidant relics yeild the desired part that is a hell of a lot of wasted time. At best, 1 of them will yeild the reward, meaning that 75% of the time and energy invested by those 3 players was simply a waste.

I had this happen to me last night; Radiant Axi G1 (for Galatine Prime) and the rewards offered were Nekros Prime Chassis OR Galatine Prime BP, this would have been great, except we can only choose one. In the old system, while the drop rates were 'lower', at least if we would have had a chance at the common drop (Nekros Chassis) on rotation A/B and then a chance at Galatine Prime BP on Rotation C. I played about 3hours last night, and only earned one Axi G1 relic. During that 3 hours; I wasn't farming traces, so adding those two grinds together and its a metric sh!t tonne of grinding just to get the ONE chance at ONE item.

I see this in a more positive light I think - in the 4 player scenario you are pooling your chances to get that drop you want; if you went solo you would have to go 4 times to have the same chance (and hence have to farm 4 radiant relics). This way you get to share the chances with your team mates and 'use' their farming effort. I do agree having to choose between two desirable drops would be frustrating though :-)

 

To my mind the difference of opinion on the new system seems to stem from different play styles; well geared teams of 4 who can go for a long time in the highest tier of endless missions and the 'casuals' (of which, much as I dislike the term, I would class myself). I play solo mainly because I often need to drop from the game with little warning and I don't think that it's fair to my team to disappear like that. This new system has given me the opportunity to try for prime parts that used to be out of reach.I could only dream of surviving a T4 interception or survival long enough to get a chance of the drop I wanted, never mind multiple chances - now I can choose to try my hand on a mission that's achievable (for me).  

I sympathise with the players who feel loss at the changes; I do understand it as I've felt it myself, but I believe DE are doing a fabulous job of providing a growing game. I'm used (on Xbox) to paying upwards of £40/£50 for the basic game and then DLC being another £12.99 or so. To get a game of this quality with this level of updates and content for free is astounding and I am more than happy to keep buying platinum for cosmetics, slots and trades to support this. I will probably end up spending more than the cost of a 'normal' game, but I've already played Warframe for longer than nearly all of my previous purchases (except maybe Chromehounds :-) Loved that game!)

 

Thus ends the ramblings of an auld fellah....

 

Art. 

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Right, I am having to experience,  an issue where I am wasting relics , and not having enough reactant to crack them open, because people are being complete #$&(% bags, racing the mission like a marathon, extracting and closing the mission off without me getting enouph reactant to open up my relic, even worse when it is radiant. This happens with extermination and capture missions... yeah even when I did all the work and captured the target myself !! no consideration whatsoever to other players. Dont they realize ... they would have 3 or less options than than 4 of a complete squad ?   So I am going to avoid capture and exterminate void fissure missions entirely and would run mobile defence, excvation etc missions instead.  

DE had it right when they first introduced this Void 2.0 in the game with SEALING the fissures... there everyone had the opportunity to crack open their relic... now when doing a capture/exterminate mission you dont know if you would get enough reactant , because inconsiderate players run for extraction, they don't realise they loose the choice of choosing 1 of 4 results from all the player's , if one or more of them did not collect enouph reactant to open their relics. You not only waist a relic, but applied traces as well to create a radiant relic

Secondly after all this, when you do crack open a radiant relic, it does not give the possible last three items... but the first three if you used a relic with no void traces applied to it... 

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I have a MAJOR problem with the new Prime farming system.  Over the years Warframe has been active, I accumulated a vast amount of Void Keys.  These Void Keys were always relevant, since the changing drop tables ensured that Primes I didn't yet eventually made it to the drop tables for all of my keys and I could turn Void Keys into Dragon Keys to farm corrupted mods.  Now, I have 924 useless Void Relics, which will forever be useless to me since I have all the Prime parts from those relics.  Meanwhile, I have 6 useful relics, and those aren't dropping the new primes.  This is absolutely absurd.  It's the worst of both worlds: having to farm keys _and_ not getting the new Prime parts.  I'm starting to think the reasoning behind this change was to slow down the farm rate of the new Primes.  People, despite their Void fatigue, were getting the new Primes within a day or two.  After three play sessions since Nekros Prime dropped, I've gotten only 1 out of a possible 11 new Prime drops.  Screw this crap.

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We need to have a minimun trace count when doing fissures DE. Seriously. In one mission you can get 25 traces and in another you get 6. 6!! I think the minimum should be 15 traces. I would prefer 20 but I'd settle for 15. Also can we have a skip command for solo players viewing the opened relics after completing the fissure. I'm staring at a Forma Blueprint for 15 seconds before extracting. There's no reason to have to do this when playing solo. I understand when in a squad because you have to choose a reward but in solo there's no point. Please consider this you awesome devs!

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I figured i'd bring my feedback here instead of helping derailing my own thread on the general discussions, but here is my cup of tea.

The void 2.0 does something amazing: adds a more meaningful involvement with the ENTIRE warframe world and not just inside of a pocket universe of sorts.
You folks even managed to do an awesome job with the rewards and i am really serious about this, however everything else is not fine at all:

 

But the problem with void 2.0 is how much it pretty much resembles an exclusive "vip" alert system, where the only change might be that enemies from the old void spawn and current enemies get a yellow glow to them with a power up .... they get super saiyan.
It is unimaginative and tedious, to say the least, it requires you do the following over and over again on some random mission:

Check for the alert (if it is on) > select relic AGAIN> kill some monsters till the end of the mission, while collecting yellow things on the ground for some reason* > Get out and do the same all over again.

It takes way too many steps, with many being unnecessary, while at the same time the void influence being not much of a big deal to the current mission.

*orbs have magical influence over rifts, making them secondary objectives. This breaks the flow of the game and i genuinely think traces should drop as some sort of resource randomly from ALL void/ void corrupted enemies. Not just rift guys. that is not how you make a fun void experience guys. Stop please.

To make it easier to digest, i colored red what shouldn't be on the steps to be begin with.
Hopefully it was clear. :/

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can we please remove forma blueprints from the drop table, or if you can't, make it so their chances drop into oblivion when you upgrade the relic, I'm getting seriously aggravated that every time I upgrade one of these relics I end up getting the same crap, or a forma. I realize RNG is RNG but the forma is just a slap in the face every damn time. I've got 21 forma blueprints, I'd literally have to forsake relics for almost a month, and make forma every single day to use them all, and it's just never going to happen I simply don't need forma that much. It would be -so- much better if you simply gave the void trader forma BP's for ducats and removed them from the list entirely. I'm glad the resource drops are gone and the cores don't even exist anymore so they're gone, it's just frustrating enough going through relic after relic and every time I have enough void trace to boost one, RNGesus screws me with a forma blueprint, because reasons.

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Trying to keep this as short as possible

 

 

My observations

- Fissures, as they are now, are boring. At least previously I could join a squad and (try to) farm Mag Prime Systems with no regard for time. It was fun.

- Void Traces rely on RNG. #NoRNG Or at least as little as possible

 

My recommendations

- New missions on a new tileset to collect void traces with radiant (and nightmare) objectives. The concept is not entirely dissimilar from Excavation missions. Difference being that it's not an endless protect target. By nightmare objectives, I mean particularly challenging objectives (with Nightmare effects when they start) that can reward huge amounts of void traces if completed.

- No fissures. Just use your traces to open relics. 25 for intact relics, no irradiated relics do not require traces to be opened.

- Sitting period for irradiated relics. By this, I mean after a relic has been irradiated with void traces, every 12 hours you wait will increase your chances of getting the rarest drop. However, acquired this way, the drop in question will be untradable.

- New void missions where you can get the prime drops you want. No RNG. Just skill and effort/grind.

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