Void 2.0 Feedback [Megathread]

[Emeryst]

Where's the new void missions?

Was really hyped on the void rework but now it seems there is just some kind of excavation? Basically we are going to have to keep replaying the same void fissure over and over again to farm prime part?

Come on DE this isn't a rework.

[Star]

2 hours ago, Admoniter said:

The void may have had little variety in it but it did exist. There was a difference between what you would take to a defense or a capture, between a survival and an exterminate. Sure most everything could be acquired from endless missions but there was usually an option to run a one off if you were so inclined. Now no matter what tier we chose, what the base mission is we are basically playing poor mans excavation. 

And here's the thing because of the corrupted composition and how fissure enemies are always a higher level than the base mission enemies (atleast in my experience); no one aiming for success is going to build around the base enemies because they don't matter. So if the base enemies don't matter  and the mission type doesn't matter because it is trivial, then the only thing that would encourage variance in what you bring would be what you are doing once you try to seal the te... oh wait that never changes. So why would you bring anything other than tanky frames? Answer is you wouldn't; there's less build variety here than there was in old void where what you were doing atleast made for a little diversity.

Do endless missions have any bearing on this can you go for multiple rotations? No, okay what about sabotage do finding caches reward you with an additional roll? No again (damn I actually really liked sabotage and not just because it gave you two items per key, that carrot on stick design actually encouraged exploration.) 

Quote edited down and pruned to emphasize some of the parts I absolutely most agree with.

 

Thank you for putting words to the things I was too frustrated to piece together, you nailed it imo. 

[Elythara]

So... the previous system was:

• Void key = mission type = loot table
• 1 void key with 4 players = 4 rewards in total
• Keysharing allowed us to check if everyone has the right key, but didn't protect us from disonest leavers/leechers
• Getting specific loot required us to grind a specific key.
• If you liked a mission type and wanted some prime parts, you could run it solo or in a group, with the loot being selected from the key's loot table. If you didn't like a mission type, you didn't have to play it but you had to acquire some prime parts in other ways.
• Time wasn't a limit, it was a scale. If time was a factor, it was a positive one – the longer you survived/defended/intercepted/excavated, the better/more loot you got.

Now the system is:

• Relic = loot table. Requires an open tear in a mission type, which is random/changing periodically. Inserts a mini mission into the base mission. This mini mission is always the same.
• solo = 1 relic = 1 reward. group of 4 = 4 relics = 1 reward that can be selected from 4 options
• Keysharing is mandatory, but the key used cannot be enforced or even checked for.
• Getting any loot requires us to do the same minigame regardless of the base mission. Getting specific loot requires us to grind the same minigame in a specific base mission that is random/periodically changing.
• If you like a mission type and want some prime parts, you have a good chance that there's a mission of your preferred mission type somewhere that has a void tear. If you like/don't like a mission type and want to use a specific relic, you better pray that there's a void tear of the right level in a mission of the right type. If you don't like the void minigame, you can forget about void tears and primes in general.
• Time is now a limit. If you fail completing the void minigame within the time limit, you better just abort and try again.

Also, arguably the most hated/difficult enemies in warframe are:

• Nullifiers. Universally hated. Can be disposed of at range fairly safely if you need your powers to actually play your frame but this can be a slow process. They now spawn during the void minigame right on top of you because that's fun, right?
• Bombards. Their aoe+knockdown makes them dangerous and their armor+health makes them tough. Easily disposed of at range with cover between you and them, dangerous when in close quarters, lethal when in close quarters under a nullifier bubble. They now spawn during the void minigame right on top of you because nullifiers arent fun enough, right? 
• Napalms. Insane AoE range with an insane fire dot at higher levels. High armor and health. They don't spawn in void. YET.
• Bursas. A nuisance in general, can be lethal when not controlled. They now spawn in corpus missions during void minigames because this apparently counts as triggering the alarm.
• Time (my personal). I personally hate time limits in games in general but I didn't have to worry about it in the void or in Warframe in general (with a few exceptions), cause ninjas can take their time, right? Wrong. Because #uck  me, right? Right.

Why not put all ('cept Napalms) of them into one mission/minigame that is THE SAME EVERY TIME. You liked getting primes/ducats from chill void exterminations? Have a timed bombafier/nullifard excavation instead! You liked spacing out in 60-minute survivals with tons of rewards at the end? Have a timed bombafier/nullifard excavation instead, with one reward! You liked hunting for orokin caches/rewards throughout the whole level and then blasting a semi-boss in a different tileset? Have a timed bombafier/nullifard excavation instead! You liked defending an orokin whatchacallit and feeling like 5 more waves (and one more reward) every five waves? Have a timed bombafier/nullifard excavation instead, with one reward!

At first I didn't really mind these changes but I grew sick&tired of them pretty quickly. I saw a post made by someone here or in another topic with an idea that void tears should somehow tie in with the base mission type in question, like exterminating a void miniboss/group in Extermination, survive void assassins in Survival, defending against a supercharged void wave in Defense, hunting a rival void spy in Spy, finding a clone of a rescue target in Rescue or something to that effect. That would be AMAZING. Imagine playing your favourite mission type with a whole new layer/objective added that would make it even more fun/interesting.

I seriously hope the current void tear system is just a stepping stone to a better system that will be created based on player feedback. By that I mean mainly my feedback, of course, because I want the game to be fun for me, which now isn't (because the current void tear system is not the only problem). So far, however, it seems my sentiments are shared by many. So yeah, DE, please take your time, our feedback and make the game better.

[Zaniel_Aus]

People say they were bored with the old Void, I'm bored with the new tears system after my first two runs at it, dead in the water. Everyone who claims they love it will be back here in a week bored out of their minds.

[TheSketchDevice]

After playing the new void system a bit, my first impression is that it I can acquire prime parts that I need much faster than before. I have a better chance at getting what I need, and I can now earn the ability to push the odds further into my favor. 

My problem with this new system is the encounters with void tears themselves. They are basically all the same fight every single time. After my first void tear encounter, I just assumed that there would be some variation in what would happen each time I attempted to close a void tear. Unfortunately, that isn't the case, and after a few more void tears, I was a little disappointed.

My friends and I began to discuss how we would change the void tear encounters ourselves. We all agreed that the only change needed is variations in the void tear fights. We came up with some ideas on different void tear encounters:

• Have some type of new corrupted boss spawn from the void tear with some boss mechanics to the fight. Perhaps not a corrupted enemy, but a super Orokin drone with lots of mini Orokin drones protecting it.
• Allow us to go inside the void tear, complete a variety of objectives inside such as finding a cache, destroying an objective, or completing a parkour room, then escape from the void tear under a time limit, as completing the objective will cause it to begin to close.
• This one is my personal favorite. The void tear begins releasing balls of unstable void energy that will explode if left unchecked. The players must use their Arcata to pick up the unstable energy and throw it back into the void tear, as corrupted enemies try to stop you by catching it. I think using some Lunaro elements in the regular game would we really cool and a super fun variation to void tear encounters.

In conclusion, I like that it is much easier to get prime parts now. The logistics behind the new system are fantastic. What must change is the void tear encounters. Just add variations to the encounters and I think more people will be happy with it.

[Zoracraft]

5 hours ago, Admoniter said:

Incoming mega rant so I'll put this in the front. TL:DR I don't like it at all, it feels worse and more obtuse than the old system and I wasn't a huge fan of the old void to begin with; and we could have avoided all this if only we had a PTR.

I will say this real quick I do like that there is consistency in how many possible items drop per relic having rare drops only drop one possible thing is awesome and such a breath of fresh air. Also the ability to slightly alter the weight of drops is a nice touch. Now I don't know what I was imagining when I first heard that the void was going to be destroyed but it was not this. Even with Steve acknowledging the nullie issue on twitter I doubt fixing it would change my opinion of the system in any meaningful way. At its core these fissure are boring and even more stale than the old void.

Now for the not so great stuff; of all the times people have stated that DE have just thrown crap at the wall and seen what sticks as far as systems go (and I am guilty of this,) only to have the pc crowd perform testing that honestly should have been internal or at the very least on a PTR or some form of soft launch; never imo has it rang truer than with this rework. Especially considering the scope and the importance of what was being reworked anything but a direct to live launch should have been used. Doubly so because there is a time limited event going on that is attached to the system being reworked and this "We'll do it live," approach screwed a lot of people over, yours truly included. Really if there is nothing else to take away from this post  it would be this; these huge sweeping reworks should absolutely go through some form of PTR.

A couple not so quick asides on things that are really important or perplexing:

1. So key sharing has been killed, I kinda liked it myself even though it relied on the honor system; it gave good value per key expended and a similar replacement just isn't present in the new system. This void 2.0 rework is screaming for a proper lobby system for premades, since it is basically the new key share. The most obvious thing is some form of UI to show what relic squad members are bringing in.

Imagine if you will I am farming for a grate prime BP which is a rare drop in a AXI NA relic. My best bet for getting one would be to recruit other people with a radiant version of said relic; only problem is said lobby doesn't exist and organizing a premade with such a goal in mind is inconsistent at best and a massive headache at worse. Worst of all you can't even tell if someone has equipped a specific type of relic till the extract at which point knowing said info only serves to confirm whether you got screwed over or not. It would be like if you couldn't see what dragon key players had equipped when doing vault runs. Imagine how frustrating that would be taking someone only to find out that he in fact did not have the key he was recruited for. At best you caught on early and just have to abort and reform wasting time but not keys, at worst he has leeched several runs off your team "without carrying his weight" as it were. At it's core Warframe is a co-op game every single system that allows for cooperation should have proper systems in place that allow for proper group forming.

2. The vault, this comes back to why we should have a PTR. There is a time limited event going on and mysteriously most everyone with old keys that had these vaulted items in their drop tables are finding that after conversion they have very few if not none of the relics that contain these items. I get it DE doesn't like players stockpiling but doing it during a month long event is a little on the nose I think. Also while most people have been correctly speculating the vault was going to continue regardless of the changes made to the void no such statement was made. I guess the siren song of double dipping on prime access money while also generating artificial scarcity of parts to keep platinum prices high was just too tempting; an official announcement of this would have been nice though because clearly not everyone was on the same page. What's the over under on when a new prime access is released a new relic that no one has is released with it to keep plat prices high and prime access packs selling? I'd say pretty damn high, but at least doing this will hopefully avoid the over saturation problem we had in the old system.

3. Odds and bars; well it's a start to having proper fleshed out drop tables and chances in game instead of relying on data mining and spread sheets. Now DE you've dipped your toe in the water, time to take the plunge. Bars with no reference numbers are about as useful and valid as graphs with no title or labeled axes; which is to say they are better than nothing but they ain't worth crap. I hated it when Mass Effect 2 used numberless bars to represent weapon stats, hated it when numbers were added in ME3 but told us absolutely nothing (what does 78 accuracy mean and what is the actual difference between it and 81 accuracy? Hell if I know. No surprise then that I hate it here to, it's hardly better than just having text next to it saying common (swimming in them), uncommon (you feeling lucky?) and rare (praise rngesus).

It makes deciphering what the drops chances of items on boosted relics is little more the guesswork. The bars on a radiant relic show all roughly at the same point but is that actually what is going on under the hood. Actual numbers would be appreciated here because:

A - We could properly determine if expending a vast amount of a limited resource was worth it.

B - It keeps the devs honest, I'm not too keen on repeating the Chesa kubrow or the sub 5% drop chance void stuff again. Data miners are gonna data mine, if nothing shady is being done you have nothing to lose by getting ahead of it.

4. Dragon keys and residual; so surprisingly I don't have too much crap to talk about this. It's different, now you have to expend a relic so you at least get something out of it on top of the residual. Problem is it shares the same resource as the relic buffing which is slow to acquire, has a small cap (stockpiling am I right?), and is supposedly valuable (remains to be seen, numbers would be nice here.) Now from my experience before voting you get on an average of 7-8 per each run; so if no one votes for your item it would take two runs to get the necessary residual to craft a key; so on average it takes longer to make one but you get slightly more out of making it. Why not give players the option to cut out the middleman if they so desire? Allow disenchanting of relics for a token that is only usable for crafting dragon keys; that way players that actually want stuff from a relic can still get their residual/prime part and players that do not want anything out of a relic can put it towards something they find more useful. Seems like a win/win to me, cuts out on some tedium, gives players a choice, does not affect stockpiling of residual.

5. Duplicates/Trash... Bad DE this is what we were trying to avoid in the first place with this entire rework. Why pre tell is there two forma BPs on the same relic? Why does another have two Saryn Prime Systems in the common and uncommon slots. And the Dual Kamas what are they even doing here? Are they lost? Did they take a wrong turn trying to be shuffled into junction rewards? Either way their kind don't belong here, nothing more needs to be said on the matter.

 

Now with that out of the way time to tackle the gameplay of these fissures, verdict is...

So real talk time; old void was boring, repetitive, with players either murder running through a map, running to the objective then murdering everything or not running and murdering everything for as long as they could get away with. That was a problem for sure but really is it any better now? Personally I think it's worse. The void may have had little variety in it but it did exist. There was a difference between what you would take to a defense or a capture, between a survival and an exterminate. Sure most everything could be acquired from endless missions but there was usually an option to run a one off if you were so inclined. Now no matter what tier we chose, what the base mission is we are basically playing poor mans excavation against the Monstars from Space Jam (for the uninitiated http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/villains/images/e/ef/The_Monstars.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140212033943) The game literally devolves into just dunking the glowy gold ball into the glowy gold space/time vagina while the glowy gold guys try to stop us. Am I missing something? Wasn't there supposed to be variety in the new void? Because if so I'm not seeing it. Literally the only thing that the base mission has an affect on is if it is Corpus because then we get the privilege of getting bursa's up the wazoo;. Where if nullies are the valedictorian of the school of missing the point of enemy design then bursa's are at the very least graduating with honors.

And here's the thing because of the corrupted composition and how fissure enemies are always a higher level than the base mission enemies (atleast in my experience); no one aiming for success is going to build around the base enemies because they don't matter. They aren't threatening even if they were the same level they still wouldn't be more threatening than the corrupted because the corrupted are handpicked to have the cheapest most BS enemies from each faction mushed into one frankenstein faction that just doesn't like to play fair. So if the base enemies don't matter (except for bursa's) and the mission type doesn't matter because it is trivial, then the only thing that would encourage variance in what you bring would be what you are doing once you try to seal the te... oh wait that never changes. So why would you bring anything other than tanky frames whose can enter the clustertruck that is opulent Space Jam and not get reduced to ribbons? Answer is you wouldn't; there's less build variety here than there was in old void where what you were doing atleast made for a little diversity.

Now we know the nullie spawns are being looked at but even still the whole argument for nullies was that they were obvious, you couldn't not see them and that a full auto weapon would ruin their day just like they would ruin yours. Yet for one reason or another they spawn with their bubble as big as it can be and just pop into existence almost directly ontop of the fissure that players need to hang around. Imagine if in old defense missions if nullies could spawn right beside the defense pod, that wouldn't be fun this isn't either. They should either spawn far enough away that players have the opportunity to deal with them or alternatively have them spawn with their bubble at minimum range and relax the spawning location to what it is now. Continually being nullified by enemies that pop into existence right beside you while having to remain in the area does not make for fun gameplay.

Quick aside I still think nullifiers are a twisted aberration that negatively affects the core gameplay loop of Warframe and should be cast aside along with the current iteration of bursas. But that is neither here nor there and I will shut up about them now.

So there is even less diversity in gameplay compared to how it used to be, how about the reward track? Do endless missions have any bearing on this can you go for multiple rotations? No, okay what about sabotage do finding caches reward you with an additional roll? No again (damn I actually really liked sabotage and not just because it gave you two items per key, that carrot on stick design actually encouraged exploration.) So no matter what the base mission is the reward track is the same with no ingame option to improve your lot. Le sigh... at this point I am tempted to place a couple more Commodus thumbs down emotes just to wrap this up but I will resist for the moment.

 

This particular part of SotR was not ready for live, even more so than the other stuff that in the past has went live despite not being ready for live. I don't like it and the biggest reason I don't like it that I haven't mentioned yet is that it pretends to be something it is not. We were told it would bring variation the monotonous nature of the void, would have us see the star chart while we got stuff (which it kind of does, but ultimately it doesn't matter), face different enemies which once again we do but again they don't matter (the corrupted are better bastards than any other factions and they will probably remain as such unless the other factions get super cheesy enemies that the corrupted do not.) It pretends to be more transparent but only superficially so and it does all this with a flashy veneer that on the surface sounds awesome but once you get down to it you realize it's still the same old song and dance. Still at least there is only one rare drop per relic so at the very least there was a small victory there. Now how about that PTR?

Well said.

Why DE likes nullifiers so much, I will never know. The game would literally be 3x as fun if they were just gone. We have other power nullification units: they have far outlived their usefulness for providing cheap kil... Ahem, "challenge" in the game.

[--Licht--]

As it was stated a number of times already, this "new" systems is a trainwreck. 

Now, don't get me wrong, I like the new update. I'm sure everyone likes it. I like almost everything they did with all the new additions, my only problem is with this VOID 2.0. Like, I know it looks like we're all b*tching about it since something that we've gotten used to is gone, but really, it's not a good change. Changing things up is fine, Void 1.0 had problems, not really huge ones imo, but i had some. This updated version tho, on the other hand just adds WAY more bigger problems to the table. Not only did this update just destroyed Solo playing, because obviously you don't get ANY benefit from it - basically forcing us to Co-op with other players / randoms; it destroyed the whole idea of KEYSHARING - all you get now is 1 reward, it might be a better one, but it's still just one reward, it's not 4... The worst thing this update did was that it removed ENDLESS MISSIONS.

Survival, Defense and Interception - those missions were the missions that gave you a challenge. They were fun. It was a challenge to stay 1-2 hours in Survival or 50 waves in Defense or 30 rounds in Interception... Rewarding you for your skills with multiple items... Now that is gone. There's no challenge, there's no nothing... It's not fun anymore. 

I've watched the Dev Stream where Steve said "to stay relaxed" and added that "if we royally screw up, we'll try to improve it". I read the comments here and I can see that people are freaking out, but this is our way of telling you that it needs to change.

 

If you ask me how to fix it, I think it's simple, really simple:

• Remove the Void tears. Make the missions more like "invasion type missions" where you have every faction there fighting - just like we have it on the Moon, where Grineer is against Corpus and we have some Sentient shenanigans.
• Make the Endless missions ENDLESS AGAIN - either spawn only Orokins or have them plus the regular faction that you can find on the mission.
• Remove the system where people can choose their own rewards and make it so that they get only one (or two for sabotage) per Relic. That way we can have our Keysharing back and you won't forcing people to play with other people when they don't want to. 

 

 

 

Edited July 9, 2016 by -S-I-L-V-E-R-

[starsrift]

7 minutes ago, -S-I-L-V-E-R- said:

...this update just destroyed Solo playing...

I question if that's a meaningful complaint to a F2P MMO company that wants to encourage players to see each other's fashionframes and compete for cool visuals. I play a lot of solo myself. Probably too much. Gentle reinforcement like this to change player behaviour to encourage the type of players they want to see, is that such a bad thing? 

Sorry, just a thought. I don't mean to undermine your complaint at all, only ask you to examine it more closely. Carry on. :)

[Zaniel_Aus]

40 minutes ago, starsrift said:

I question if that's a meaningful complaint to a F2P MMO company that wants to encourage players to see each other's fashionframes and compete for cool visuals. I play a lot of solo myself. Probably too much. Gentle reinforcement like this to change player behaviour to encourage the type of players they want to see, is that such a bad thing? 

Sorry, just a thought. I don't mean to undermine your complaint at all, only ask you to examine it more closely. Carry on. :)

Companies that decide they want to dictate to consumers how they will use their goods very quickly go out of business. 

[Zaniel_Aus]

OK, further thoughts on Void 2.0.

Now with only 1 reward per relic your efficient player's main goal is to simply finish the mission as soon as possible with minimum fuss, then return to Triton/other efficient endless mission to farm more relics as fast as possible.

So this means why would I do anything but Caps or Exterminates. All the other game types take too much time or effort or with say Spy/Rescue missions the frames you'd take to do them aren't the frames you want for the fissure spam fest.

So if the void tears are in pooptastic mission types I'm just going to avoid doing the Void today, save up my relics for tomorrow and then spam them out quickly once that Cap or Ext come up. Who is going to do a 10+ minute MD for a fissure when I can do 5 Caps in the same time.

Players of farming games like Warframe are efficiency chasers, expect terrible outcomes to follow.

 

So now instead of Draco + T3 Survival we have Triton + T3Cap, gg DE.

[Whytee]

Just played a few T3 Fissure Capture missions on Corpus Ice planet tileset.

Out of the 3 missions we played, the first one we couldn't find the rift anywhere, after ~20 mins of searching, we gave up and extracted

Second run we managed to complete properly (yay)

Third run we couldn't find the rift yet again. Abandoned after 5 mins (INCREDIBLY tedious at this point to simply FIND the tear in the first place)

 

All in all my verdict is this has been executed incredibly badly. Its so frustrating. If I wanted to search around for hidden rewards for 30 mins I'd play void sabotage and look for caches.

 

Make them easier to find! (As in put a waypoint on the minimap or let us use a scanner to find it, similar to synthesis targets) Its a NO BRAINER, why you want people frustrated and bored at your game is so confusing

Edited July 9, 2016 by Whytee

[Admoniter]

1 hour ago, starsrift said:

I question if that's a meaningful complaint to a F2P MMO company that wants to encourage players to see each other's fashionframes and compete for cool visuals. I play a lot of solo myself. Probably too much. Gentle reinforcement like this to change player behaviour to encourage the type of players they want to see, is that such a bad thing? 

Sorry, just a thought. I don't mean to undermine your complaint at all, only ask you to examine it more closely. Carry on. :)

I argue that Warframe despite containing features commonly associated with MMOs is itself not a MMO. The core gameplay is an instance based shooter sure it's got social hubs, raids, trading, etc. but these are not what define what an MMO is. Destiny has all these things (minus the trading last I checked) and allows players to encounter eachother on patrols; I'd argue that even with that Destiny while being more MMOlite than Warframe is still itself not an MMO. As such while Warframe is a co-op game solo play still exists and still has a part to play; some missions are infact better off played solo (I do all my spy sorties solo for this very reason.) IMO if solo play has been adversely affected by an update it is worth talking about.

[Tricky5hift]

I like the new void drop system but the missions themselves gets very repetitive and tedious (not quite as tedious as waiting 20 min in a T3 Survival to see what ****ty drop I get)

When I first heard of this new void system I thought the fissures were like void portals that transported you to the void tileset where you do some mini mission there and go back and seal the fissure.

The current fissure system right now is absolutely bonkers with corrupted bombards, nullies and ancients dropping on your head like in a bad hailstorm.

[BlackCoMerc]

I think: remove the mini excavation fight completely. It's unnecessary and repetitive, exacerbating the very grind DE claimed to combat.

Before, we ran the same mission over and over. But we could break from it, and run something else, for other rewards, too.

Now, we HAVE to run a nullifier infested hell of an Excavation mission. Every. Single. Run. Only to have Reactant drop rates force failures at times, to boot which is just unfair. Period.

We already grind for Relics. We are already running a mission. We don't need another mini mission. Just let us activate the Fissure and get our reward.

As for Traces...let containers in the Void drop them. Would give us a reason to go back there, which we currently lack.

[Umbra-]

Not much to say tbh. I LOVE IT!

[EyeLaikCheez]

The Void - Prime parts:

1) Endless missions such as defense and survival are pointless, you killed the end game.

2) For some reason rare parts such as Ash Prime blueprint and Nova Prime Systems etc are now very easy to get. This is a disaster for the economy of the game.

3) The new update didn't reduce the grind, it did the exact opposite. We now have to grind for other void things (forgot names) so that we can use them on our "keys" to increase the chance of getting the item we want. Before the update things were simple, get some keys and grind. Also, grinding for ducats is going to be very hard. You need at least ~5mins to complete a mission and get 1 part. I'm sorry but I'm not going to sit there for hours just so I can get that 1 Primed Mod from Baro for 400 ducats. That is literally HOURS of grinding with new update.

Some suggestions:

1) Allow players to farm prime parts in the void again like we used.

2) Keep the void fissures and the new system but adjust the rewards so that previously rare items aren't so common.

[Podge]

Honestly, I'm really disappointed. I was super excited for this, and not only has it proved to be tedious, and frustrating, but for me it's nigh unplayable. I'm one of those people who has a terrible internet connection, so for the most part i like to play missions solo. with the previous system, i could easily play any void mission i wanted, assuming i didn't intend on staying past 30 minutes/waves in t4 endless missions. with this system, I literally cannot even get one of the easiest missions done. the reactants just don't drop enough for me to find ten of the things in the time limit. I even tried doing one in a four person squad, and we were successful, but i really might as well have not even been there. i was lagging so hard that by the time i could even see the enemies, i had already been downed. This is the first thing that i found so frustrating that i actually ragequit. hopefully when i get back from traveling in a couple months, this will have been fixed.

[SuperGameJunky]

Sorry in advance this is going to be a long post.

Were do I start with this one. Its an intresting idea done wrong very very very ver........ very wrong. First off, it kills the need for any late game builds as now the highest level enemies are level 60 (sorties not included) I think and well there is no reason to face off with anything, any higher then that. This killed all late game content right of the bat. No more Long def Runs or 2 hour survival as there is no real point or reward that would stimulate that community anymore to do that. Hell just take a tomkor and you can have a level zero frame and still run any of the Rift, void what ever they are calling it now. zero point at all noting to do at all idk what they were thinking here. 

Now to the RNG math This is were some of the community members are getting on my nerve and saying the RNG and Grinding is a lot better.

***this math is all down on the assumtion that you are working with a 4 person squad

The Old System

So in the old void system you had keys and one key meant at the very least 1 prime item, key or forma.

Now its 4 keys or fissures w.e. ever you want to call it for one item one item (sorry bit of a rant)

now lets get down to math 

So for a good example lets take the old T4Sab key it gave out the an average amount of rewards per key around 2 items May it be keys prime parts or forma. (on average)

It would take about 20 minutes to farm the key with a team and then the team would get 1 key each. Each key would then take about 10 minutes with a good team, to run maybe more maybe less depending how good the cashes were hidden. So 10 minutes 4 keys is 40 min plus 20 to farm the keys and at an average of 2 items per run you would get  8 prime parts/BP keys or forma in 60 min that a prime part for about 7.5 minutes of work which was about average, with exterminate and capture being faster but less parts per key and survival and def being longer but giving more stuff per key so sab was the average and that is why I chose it.

that is 7.5 min per part and 2 items per key (ON AVERAGE)

The New System

Okay so the new system It increase the chance of getting better loot but that is just the sales pitch to get you to buy into there new system

The RNG math of this is well way way worse

So I have played around getting the new keys ... yes I am calling them keys its easier and as far as I can tell there is no different except a new name and picture so keys they are (sorry about that I wasn't going to rant but something had to break) .... it seems to be no different then the old way so 20 min for 4 people to get a key each. Therefor, that stayed the same.

Now this is where the math goes down hill.  ALL FOUR PLAYERS MUST USE THEIR KEY TO GET ONLY ONE REWARD. So with the best team it took us 10 min to complete the survival mission which was well 10 min. and then we had to go back to farming keys again.

So her is the break down for 4 KEYS YOU GET ONE Prime PART and now its ONE Part per Every 30 min no matter what you play. 

That is a 400% increase in the time to get anything. 400%!!!!!

And a 800% increase in items per key on just this one key type on survival and def key this number is so high that it would melt your computer. 

Now yes you can "choose" which one you want sorta. but many keys have the same thing twice and it still spawns junk prime parts all the time. Plus idk how anyone is going to farm for ducets now its going to take for ever.

On a side not the chance system with the void fragment can increase the chance of a rare sure but honestly not by much hell that little blue bar doesn't mean anything really not sure if a full bar means 30 % or 2%  so yeah that not really a thing I can count. 

Plus the community market is well out of wake sure it may bonce back but everything I mean everything is going to cost more now.

*On a side not you cant tell if your teammates are taking the right key or not or no key at all and just want to farm some fragments. so that has to change ASAP

 

Now that that is over lets talk about how it all works and some stuff I experienced that doesn't work

The Void  thing now spawns a ton of enemy mostly bombardiers Heavy Gunners and nulls which fine I guess new players may die but anyone with a bit of experience can finish them off. But why in the hell do we need to baby sit a Hostage that has no health or shields when the bombardiers can 1 shot most frames. In the several games I played we had to keep reviving him all the time. one or two guys just sat back reviving him the whole time. Why is that a thing that means one or two guys get to do noting but be bored holding E to pay there respects (if you didn't get that then I am so sorry). Then I had a few rounds where we spent 20 minutes looking for the dam void thing  and could not find it in a survival and there wasn't any life support left so we all choked to death. In one of the recuse it took us 30 minutes to find the dam thing. Now this problem is rare and seems to only happen once  every blue moon but often to point that it needs a fix. This could be fixed with lotus telling us where it is so we do not have to find it. If she can track down a single grineer she wants as a well you know what in a pack of a hundred she can track down a big energy flux ripping open a void portal. Plus whats the point of the void now like why is it still there, it service no purpose aside form MR. 

Honestly, I was so happy when they said they are going to do away with the void and I thought that we where going to see a big event destroying the void and there would be a lot of cool things that needed to be done and then the destroyed parts of the void would spawn into the world and crash land on planets and then there would be areas where you can play the void mission but with a twist like if it lands on a grineer Planet we would face 4 waves of grineer then one wave of corrupted in a def or something like that and in a survival it would be some kind of mix between the two but ultimately keep the RNG more or less the same. 

This system is so poor, not bad. I have spent hundred of hours in this game and hundreds of dollars. However, now I almost don't want to even play anymore . They make more and more RNG Stuff and make more grind and more grind. The worst is they try to sell it to us as a good thing like this new void is "less grinding", and yeah in the short term it does but in the long term it is way way way way worse. And they never fix anything that is broken (not talking game breaking  they are good with that the game runs very well) like limbo why is limbo not getting a rework why did volt get a rework before limbo. Limbo has no role he can play, sure he can play in a def but a frost is better. he is really annoying and a very trolly frame he can banish players into the void for 1 minute and then the player can't do anything but beg for him to remove him form it. (just learned that you can role out of it I played for idk 500 hours and never knew that) Then they have these cool new weapon release that well look cool but have zero synergy or power to even play in mid game even after heavy forma work looking at you duel dark swords.

 

Sorry the end went of topic a bit but I felt it fit into the whole theme

Quick shout out to the Kevet (give use a vacuum for KEVET PLZ) and Spectator they are amazing.

Edited July 9, 2016 by SuperGameJunky

[Mr_Good_Cat7]

It appears that blueprints for warframes, weapons, and some components have been removed from the market or are otherwise inaccessible.

[minidelight]

4 hours ago, Zaniel_Aus said:

People say they were bored with the old Void, I'm bored with the new tears system after my first two runs at it, dead in the water. Everyone who claims they love it will be back here in a week bored out of their minds.

 

 

 

i did 7 runs......never again, so boring,   i would only do it again if i really needed any new stuff.........the old void was not perfect, but you could go there and do alot of stuff at the same time in endless missions, level weapons,frames,  get forma, ducats  all in one....now  we only have  a glorified Nullifier Piñata. 

They killed a huge part of the game for me, im not sure how this new system can be salvaged

 

Edited July 9, 2016 by minidelight

[TempestSea]

37 minutes ago, EyeLaikCheez said:

Also, grinding for ducats is going to be very hard. You need at least ~5mins to complete a mission and get 1 part. I'm sorry but I'm not going to sit there for hours just so I can get that 1 Primed Mod from Baro for 400 ducats. That is literally HOURS of grinding with new update.

The DEs have stated that they will be adjusting Baro's prices and the amount of ducats per piece. 

[SuperGameJunky]

1 hour ago, Tricky5hift said:

I like the new void drop system but the missions themselves gets very repetitive and tedious (not quite as tedious as waiting 20 min in a T3 Survival to see what ****ty drop I get)

When I first heard of this new void system I thought the fissures were like void portals that transported you to the void tileset where you do some mini mission there and go back and seal the fissure.

The current fissure system right now is absolutely bonkers with corrupted bombards, nullies and ancients dropping on your head like in a bad hailstorm.

Idk If i agree with your first part but thats not why i replied

i complete agree thought something very close to that or there be an event where we destroy the void and the piece crash land on planets and we do it that way.

AND OMG YES I READ THAT LAST PART AND JUST LAUGHED MY &#! OFF

[JaviiMii]

2 hours ago, Zaniel_Aus said:

OK, further thoughts on Void 2.0.

Now with only 1 reward per relic your efficient player's main goal is to simply finish the mission as soon as possible with minimum fuss, then return to Triton/other efficient endless mission to farm more relics as fast as possible.

So this means why would I do anything but Caps or Exterminates. All the other game types take too much time or effort or with say Spy/Rescue missions the frames you'd take to do them aren't the frames you want for the fissure spam fest.

So if the void tears are in pooptastic mission types I'm just going to avoid doing the Void today, save up my relics for tomorrow and then spam them out quickly once that Cap or Ext come up. Who is going to do a 10+ minute MD for a fissure when I can do 5 Caps in the same time.

Players of farming games like Warframe are efficiency chasers, expect terrible outcomes to follow.

 

So now instead of Draco + T3 Survival we have Triton + T3Cap, gg DE.

Would have liked to give that one there more than one thumbs up. - And To make it even more efficient / get the prime mods you use up all your low lv/undesired relics in fast missions to get traces and baro-parts to level up your desired relic.

[Rakshat]

The entire game is now reduced to a single game mode - closing fissures. I am beyond disappointed. I guess I'm gonna have to get into kavat breeding to keep my interest in the game.

[Lonegunner_nl]

I Play Warframe  since it was bèta, i have Seen many changes.

But with this update you have ruined a lot of fun.

Why would you help other players now ifthey ask for slownova or frost, you need to investto get a reward.

So what do you get now, people play for what they need and quit,

I still have a key for warframe dlc, but I don't think that I will use him, I play my sortie and will see we're it ends:'(:'(:'(:'(