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[DE]Taylor

Void 2.0 Feedback [Megathread]

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Did my first four person Relic run tonight. The kind of mission we used to look forward to. Teaming up to go after Prime parts.

It was awful. I mean really, really AWFUL.

Enemies spawned so close to the all of us Tenno, and everything was crowded and chaotic that...well, I dont even know what went on. Just a bunch of running about, spamming CC and shooting Nullifiers and spamming CC again. In a tiny little area. Absolutely nothing fun about it. In fact, I just quit Relic runs after that one, for the night.

That one being, of course, my first run of the night.

Burned out on this already. Its crowded, repetitive and boring.

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Fissues should be marked on the map.

Good side: Everything rotates, so i can get everything with just captures and Survival. And survival last only 10min with 4 rolls.

Good side: There is no cores/argon/keys as reward.

Good: I can weight the dice roll Bad: Only up to 10% which anyway means 10+ runs. At least for now there is no clear benefit. 

 

 

 

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Best time in the Void was back 2015 before Frost get vaulted. Man, all worked so well, so balanced!

The drop rate was correct: not too easy or too difficult for rare parts like Ash blueprint

Outside void, the drop rate of t3 void Keys where much better than this relics

These two things must be in balance because is pointless if the keys drop easily and the item does not drop ever.

Then you do 12 runs and the Ash blueprint not drop. This is like the drop rates became after Frost get vaulted

Please return void and drop rates back to what it was in 2015! 

 

 

 

 

  

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First off, thank you DE for Specters of The Rail, and thank you for trying to end void fatigue, but I personally feel that some of the changes have drastically lessened my and many other's enjoyment of the game. 

Lets be honest, the majority of almost every tenno's time in warframe has been spent farming primes. The problem I had with void farming was not the farming itself, but the tile set. All I personally looked for was playing on other tile sets.

I find the new prime part system to be both convoluted and just as monotonous as the old. I am very agitated that

1) there is no consistency as to what I can play when I want to farm primes (I can't just say I wanna do a survival that is x difficulty)

 2) there is no endless mission in which I can farm primes, making it so there is almost no reason for me to do a run longer than 20 minutes (it would be cool to upgrade a relic and then do a 1.5 hr survival)

3) every void mission feels like a corrupted mod farm, I do not want to go into a survival or another mission, spend 1/4 of the time doing the mission and the other 3/4 finding the *#@# fissure. If the mission is an exterminate it should be an exterminate not a treasure hunt. 

SOLUTIONS - 

I propose that the easiest solution to the troughs while not changing the new system is such

1) Take the idea of finding fissures to get void parts out, just get the part when you finish the mission etc. 

2) add back in endless missions as a way to get void parts (and of course give prime parts on an incremental basis).

3) give tenno the option that for a large amount of void traces (maybe like 450) he or she could permanently unlock a node (which ever they choose) to be a playable prime part mission (as long as they keep adding the relic), this way even though the fissure system may not be consistent players can have a reliable place they like to play on where they can obtain prime parts.

4) make relics the main reward of void missions

5) put fissures either in regular missions or in void missions as the place to get traces, do not have them have anything to do with actually obtaining a part.

Thank you for your time and thank you DE for this update, but please attempt to deal with the problems I have expressed.

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I find that void tracers should NOT  have a 100 tracers as a limit as this will make the grind feels even more..

Maybe make it  higher(1000?increase with MR? ) So this way we can use those tracers when we need...  Like the sense/feels that we can stock up the tracers and we can use it when we Really need to use 

Cause spend when using multiple  relic + having a max out void tracers..  Feels like a waste of resource

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I think that we should be able to choose any rewards from the pool, however.

Chances should stay the same for access from the fissure. For example, Lith A1 intact:

76% to be able to choose from the common pool only.

22% to be able to choose from the uncommon pool or common pool.

2% to be able to choose from all pools.

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First off thanks DE for your dedication to the game and your constant updates.

Having done plenty of Relic missions, i feel they need a lot of work.Im a veteran who was getting some void fatigue, but with the new system it gets very boring very fast.The actual mission type is trivial, at most it takes 10mins for a survival.The mission level never scales enough to become challenging in anyway, it really doesn't matter what you bring to the mission, anything will do (which is good and bad).

 

Closing Fissures

The enemies all spawn on top of each in close proximity, i think spreading them out would be better.Maybe open multiple small fissures around the room, which spawn enemies, and have the main one to close it.Then each squad member can at least take a spawn each, rather than just everyone line up and spam as much damage into a small space as you can.Then the items to close the fissure would be spread out.

The nullifiers were badly implemented into this mission imho.Four of them spawning with overlapping bubbles, especially after the changes to the bubbles, is just bad.It makes warframe powers pretty useless, so turns the mission into just a boring weapon spam.

The timer could also be removed and have the enemies scale instead.As it it these missions can be done a couple of minutes, with no challenge at all, even solo.Without the timer you could farm more Void traces, and scaling enemies will give veterans a challenge.An option to upgrade your key could be introduced periodically during the mission, to give the option of farming traces, or better chance for your reward.This i feel would give veterans at least some form of challenge.

Traces need to be looked at also.I get bewtween 5-13 per mission on average.So usually that means grinding these missions 8-10 times, to upgrade a key, for a small increase in chance of a rare.Grinding these you start to see the missions, as basically, as easy exterminate with the small gimmick of picking up things and putting them in the fissure.

Mission type just doesnt make sense.I get the RNG of it, but why would you ever pick a survival over a capture? You always end up picking the mission thats the shortest and easiest to complete.SPY or MD? no thank you i'll do anything else.Survial? only if its the only choice.

Final thoughts

Without any form of challenge to these missions, for veterans, sorties and trials are the only content that is.Void endless mission are still there but without reward why bother? The mission type being so trivial just makes these glorified exterminates.With no real need to organise a squad composition, or need of a strategy, and the ease of the mission its just not fun.Im already more bored of these missions than the old void.

 

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Prime parts droptables being buffed is great, but there is a huge problem in your conceit:

You assume players have an enormous quantity of relics, which is not the case for most players. Therefore the effort and grind it takes to refine a relic is disproportional to the payout.

Your system is solo-unfriendly. I get that it's a COOP game, but if things caan be scaled up for 4 man teams why can't they be scaled down for solo? You basically waste a key if you go solo...and as the effort and tasks for each relic has increased that's a double blow. 

PLEASE FIX NULLIFIFERS AND THEIR SPAWNS.

PLEASE BALANCE THE KNOCKDOWN FEST FROM ENDLESS NULLIFIER AND BOMBARD SPAM.

Frames other than uber-tanks have no chance for solo players at least.

Please fix the detection of the void fissures to the reactants. 

Please increase trace and residue drops.

Please adjust the visual effects of everything being yellow. It was genuinely hurting my eyes and made me quit playing.

 

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About this promise, that all of our keys would still matter after the update...

I don't know if this is a bug and how many people are affected by this- out of all my keys that were converted, some of the relics are missing now. So where before I had a decent supply for ALL the different mission types and therefor drops, I now have to farm a bunch of new relics, to make sure I can get their drops.

The most annoying part for me personally is that all the vaulted items come from the relics that I am missing now and those are pretty much the only items I am missing now.

It would be nice if there was a way to trade in 2 relics to get a different relic from the same era.

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22 hours ago, starsrift said:

You forgot the other part of the math. If you're doing a keyshare scenario where you all farm the same key and then attempt to do the run with it, then you have four chances to get the "wanted" or most rare item on the drop table. Assuming the same drop rates(why would they change?), this also cuts down grinding for parts by 400%. That is a 400% reduction in the time to get anything.

So yes, the efficiency of key usage goes down, but the actual, real time player efficiency of your personal time usage has shot up by a huge margin!

In the scenario you suggest, take 20 mins to farm the key and then use it, in an old keyshare scenario, that's 20 mins to get to Rotation C or the "rare" option, so 5x20 minutes - an hour and forty minutes. Now, you get that same drop rate chance done in 30 mins.

Of course, you don't get all the 'junk' you'd pick up along the way. But if you're only farming junk for ducats, why are you even bothering to 'keyshare'? You can just grab your relic and jump into a pub alert and take whatever. :) And DE's said they'll be adapting prices anyway, so the ducat farming is a bit of a silly complaint just yet. :)

Okay so you didn't read the whole thing I picked the sab keys because they gave an average amount of prime drops form the old system. Plus in a survival  you could hit rotation c about 3 times in t4 with out too much work and team work, its was after that when you need a good team to get passed it. so stop making things up plus I mentioned that in sur the time to prime was longer so again just didn't read my post just jumped to the big number got mad and tried to prove me wrong for some reason.

Real time efficiency did not change much it got worse i played several rounds of the new void I even did the thing with the shards and I got a forma for my upgraded key and you will get 2 of the same item a forma and then some junk so it still takes like 7-15 runs to get anything you really want.

And idk what your doing but now when you farm a key with a team you all get one key and then when you go and use it everone has to use it now, so there is no such thing as keyshareing anymore just sorta of "lootsharing" . Keyshare meant that if everyone had one key you can run that mission 4 times not once

 

 Even if we use your example no one ever ran sur in keyshares some one would host it and they would go on a 60 min mission and get 3 rounds of c and again this was all mentioned in my post that sur and def mission took longer for prime per min then a sab. Plus no one ever key farmed for sur and def in a group for the purpose of using them afterwords. That only happened for EXt CAp and SAb. The other keys you would host one and or someone else would host it and then you do one key and then that was it so stop trying to poke holes with something that was not even a thing 

Yes that post was made before I read that they are going to be adjusting the ducet thing and we will just have to see and wait but i dont think it will balance it self out as much as it may need to. However, it still kills the Trading thing for all F2P players that got plat in the trading section selling prime parts they didn't need or were willing to sell. This is going to increase the price of everything in the market making it more expensive and less possible for new players as the price would be to high. When i started out i was able to buy a missing part for my frost prime with out ever having to buy plat or to much grinding as i had some extra primes parts i didnt need and was able to sell them. Because of that i played the game more and ended up buying 6000+ plat and one prime accuse so that whole thing, will most likely not be a thing now as new players are going to have to grind more to get any thing they maybe missing and want to get. This update shift the economy way to much and I consider myself a vet player and I have all the prime stuff maybe missing one or two things so this effected me very little but it effected new players and some of my friends who just started pretty badly.  

The only effects I got hit with was now I have noting to do in the high end, the whole end game was well rooted out and my fully built out and formad frames that where built for team work in the void, are now just collecting dust because now its go tank or die.

Plz if your going to try and poke holes in my logic read the whole thing not just a part of it and dont try to prove your point with stuff that never happened.

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Just had a 20 runs in Axi Capture. It was fun. Got some bad loot, and a couple of good. Similar to old void runs.

But the cool part is that each run took 5 min. And was quite dynamic. Big issue is no market for Fissue, or not even indicator where it could be.

Nice thing is that each run have 8% (actually more) for heavng rare reward with 4 party, i think it is more than old void. 

Fissues spawn are to close to each other and to close to rift, and there is too much light. Problem with visibility. Maybe there could be like portal which spawns mobs, and relict where we need bring tracers in some distance from each other. Or several rifts around relict, abit like excavetion.

It would be nice if we could check what kind of Relic each party member has equiped. It would make easier to have hosted parties that way. If we Look for Group Lith A1 everyone would feel better if could see it. Scamers are Infestacion for game.

The difficulty of lv 40 Axi on lv60 ember with below weapons was ok, i went down a couple of time, but mostly due to playing with sniper rifle.

In choose your reward screent there could be more info: Is the part rare or what? Do i have it and how many? From which relict it comes?

 

 

 

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My #1 complaint is that the fissures don't show up on the map, so we have to do this stupid f**king goose chase to find them, and if people can't find them in the first 12 seconds, they all abandon the mission. Then (#2) we have to deal with stupid bombards, nullifiers, heavy gunners, ancients, and the rest of the most irritating enemies in the game for questionable rewards (#3). I can't even access the new void now (#4), and the fissures can spawn in places that I can't reach (#5), forcing me to slog through every single boring a** mission in the "progression" of the new star chart (#6), that I would have actually enjoyed the changes to if not for that fact. Junctions are a cool idea, and that should have been the motivation to clear that content. By the way, why tie fissures into regular missions  at all? That's the most moronic part of this whole thing.

For the new upped ante of hassle (not even difficulty) that fissures present, the "trash" loot should be distributed elsewhere on the star map among the regular planets and have something actually rewarding in their place.

Straight up, I absolutely LOVED this game before this change, and now I don't even want to play at all. 

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I've not played this game for long, but I was definitely enjoying it a lot before the update. I'm not saying I don't enjoy it now, because I still do, but the last few days have introduced me to pills that are very tough to swallow, and kinda make me question the way things go inside of the DE studio. The star map is cool, I like it, but it should be overhauled in terms of usability as well. I play with a gamepad, and at least 50% of the game is impossible to navigate to/from with a gamepad, and I have to switch to the mouse and keyboard. Kinda killing my flow there.

I agree on the Void part though, I can't be arsed to try and get there. Too much trouble for a rather small chance of "good" rewards. Stuff like argon crystals, orokin cells and forma was already annoying enough to get, but now it's so much trouble, I won't even try anymore.

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I have put many hours into this game on both PC and PS4. I didn't mind supporting the devs by buying plat here and there, but I never felt that I had to either. I'm not offering another dime until this is fixed into a playable system.

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1) There is an easy trick, when you're in the right room, lotus will talk.

2) I agree, making nulifiers, bombards, and ancients spawn right on you is stupid.

3) you'll have to progress for this

4) I don't believe that's possible.

5) That was already the case before, people just managed to skip it while it wasn't supposed to be available. On another hand, they reduced a lot the amount of missions.

6) That's actually the only way to remove the void fatigue, by puting prime part obtention anywhere else but in the void. Personally I prefer this over going into the void again and again.

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6 hours ago, Trichouette said:

1) There is an easy trick, when you're in the right room, lotus will talk.

2) I agree, making nulifiers, bombards, and ancients spawn right on you is stupid.

3) you'll have to progress for this

4) I don't believe that's possible.

5) That was already the case before, people just managed to skip it while it wasn't supposed to be available. On another hand, they reduced a lot the amount of missions.

6) That's actually the only way to remove the void fatigue, by puting prime part obtention anywhere else but in the void. Personally I prefer this over going into the void again and again.

1 isn't good enough.

2. -

3. No way.

4. There are "rails" to it, but I don't have any of the ones that connect to it open. And if it is inaccessible, take it off the fkn map.

5. Void didn't have that issue--and shouldn't.

6. I didn't mind the old way at all. Targeted farming is fun in games, generally, but the new way of doing it is garbage.

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I understand you all are frustrated, but please try to keep the language clean -- All the profanity really isn't necessary to get your point across.  

Feedback is feedback though, and I don't want to have to hide and lock the thread. 

 

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16 minutes ago, Ferah_Frithu said:

I play with a gamepad, and at least 50% of the game is impossible to navigate to/from with a gamepad, and I have to switch to the mouse and keyboard.

Am I wrong, or was like that even before? 

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1 minute ago, Drufo said:

Am I wrong, or was like that even before? 

It was, but now it's even worse than before. Too many small things to count, but trying to navigate through any menu (Map, Arsenal, Market ect.) is almost impossible with a gamepad :/

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6 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

1 isn't good enough.

2. -

3. No way..

4. There are "rails" to it, but I don't have any of the ones that connect to it open. And if it is inaccessible, take it off the fkn map.

5. Void didn't have that issue--and shouldn't.

6. I didn't mind the old way at all. Targeted farming is fun in games, generally, but the new way of doing it is garbage.

  1. I agree but still, it helps.
  2.  
  3. Oh no, you have to play the game to progress, what a new and awful concept.
  4. I don't know, I didn't see any inaccessible yet.
  5. I don't see the point of your remark.
  6. YOU don't mind, some people do. I'm sick of playing against corrupted and leaving the full solar map to rot because there is nothing to do on it, sick of this void tileset and sick of dealing with corrupted all the time. Your opinion isn't for everybody.

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43 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

I have put many hours into this game on both PC and PS4. I didn't mind supporting the devs by buying plat here and there, but I never felt that I had to either. I'm not offering another dime until this sh** is fixed into a playable system.

So did i, i donated at least 300$ on each ps4 and pc, but no way i'm ever buying more plat until they atleast try to fix it

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Oh, don't worry. Now you get to face corrupted on random tilesets with even worse groups, for less loot, blow more keys, and have to go mess with the rest of the empty star map for no reason. Glad you like it.

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1 minute ago, -Sanatorium- said:

So did i, i donated at least 300$ on each ps4 and pc, but no way i'm ever buying more plat until they atleast try to fix it

Really, there are only 3 things I want from the new system.

1) Keep Void in the void. They can randomize the tilesets all day long, but those missions don't belong on the rest of the star map.

2) Put the fissure itself on the mini-map the way every other mission objective is. Hide-and-Seek can be a separate game mode for people who want that nonsense; in fact, it already is with Syndicates.

3) Level out the drop chances slightly so that the stuff at the bottom of the list, for any given key, at least looks obtainable. I know some stuff is supposed to be rare, but that stuff should not be in T1 or T2 farming areas. That's just ridiculous. I had this problem before, but not to this degree. The new fissure system is 10x the hassle that old void was, so the drop rates need to come up to compensate.

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13 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

Oh, don't worry. Now you get to face corrupted on random tilesets with even worse groups, for less loot, blow more keys, and have to go mess with the rest of the empty star map for no reason. Glad you like it.

This.

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