Void 2.0 Feedback [Megathread]

[-Sanatorium-]

2 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

Really, there are only 3 things I want from the new system.

1) Keep Void in the void. They can randomize the tilesets all day long, but those missions don't belong on the rest of the star map.

2) Put the fissure itself on the mini-map the way every other mission objective is. Hide-and-Seek can be a separate game mode for people who want that nonsense; in fact, it already is with Syndicates.

3) Level out the drop chances slightly so that the stuff at the bottom of the list, for any given key, at least looks obtainable. I know some stuff is supposed to be rare, but that stuff should not be in T1 or T2 farming areas. That's just ridiculous. I had this problem before, but not to this degree. The new fissure system is 10x the hassle that old void was, so the drop rates need to come up to compensate.

AND, take the archwing back as it was, market back as it was, it's confusing as hell, and for the love of god please fix the icons on the mini map. They literally take half of the mini map and i don't have a minute to look at it and try to figure out if that is loki,mag,nova or trinity. Just...no

[Chushingura]

I think its more rewarding

[FrostDragoon]

It's not.

[felixsylvaris]

A small problem, which havent hit hard enought already but will rise in future:

Some Relics have 4 drop locations, others only 1. Which makes them hard to obtain. Also it creates problem what if this one location is very unliked by player.

Drop location should be upgraded, so each relict has 3-4 drop loactions, and as much as it is possible in different mission types.

It also seems that Mobile Defence is very unlikely as relict drop rotacion which has no reason.

[Nekrosmas]

This system is indeed more complicated than the old way, but I kinda like it despite some issues (Primarily due to massive decrease in quantity of junks aka less ducats).

I like the fact that the new system had some skills onto it and require you explore a bit this beautiful world, instead of exploring the map to find a water tunnel in the old void just to appreciate the Orokin sewage system for like 2 hours :)

The new system require people to think strategies for it..... oh wait, this is the internet where people have no (insert a word here)....

Edited July 11, 2016 by Alvin_1020

[FrostDragoon]

It doesn't require any new thought/strategy at all. And I'm supposed to care about some other random planet's sewage system? This is a case where complications to the system did not bring the depth you would normally expect. It simply downgraded it.

[Megakruemel]

Well the idea is that you finish the starchart first, before doing other things. I mean you are supposed to be able to run void fissures if you reach them and that is the reason why tiers exist.

T4 void is supposed to be hard and new players are not supposed to jump in there straight away. If you have been playing for a long time it should not be hard to clear the starchart anyway, so i don't get the complaints about the progression path. The only thing slightly annoying are the junctions, that literally want you to run fissures that also spawn later, which could be aggravating.

[Trekiros]

My suggestion : one brand new minigame for each relic type (not the era part, the S1/S2/N1/N2 part. Or both, you decide, yo). You could release those minigames iteratively, one per two months over the period of a year or so. And when the drop tables become cluttered... Just create new relics !

Here are a couple examples of minigames the relics could do, that shouldn't be too hard to implement considering the things I've seen in the past in Warframe :

-The current minigame, where enemies spawn, drop reactant, and it's basically an excavation brawl.

-The rift teleports you into the void. You have to fight through hordes of high level corrupted enemies to find another rift which will let you escape.

-A corrupted boss appears, you have to beat it (vor ? stalky ? another, new one ?)

-The relic drops some kind of void-infused item, debuffing whoever is holding it. The mission continues normally, but you have to bring the item to the extraction point.

-Some kind of Sortie-like buff/debuff now applies until the end of the mission.

-The mission now has a time limit. If you don't finish it by the time the time limit is reached, no rewards.

You could easily imagine tens of those, honestly.

The "problem" is that none of those are infinite, and people are complaining about that. I personally don't mind ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited July 11, 2016 by Trekiros
one more idea. See, it litterally took me 1 minute to come up with one.

[FrostDragoon]

It's not about the difficulty. Why do people always miss that point? It's a huge hassle that detracts from doing what I want to be doing, and that I (as a player) am more than capable of doing. It's a pointless time sink. I want to emphasize the pointless part of that--not the time sink. If there were a real reason I would want to be doing it--and I can't even think of one that would make me want to complete the entire star chart--the time aspect of that argument would go away, but there isn't.

[(PSN)Final_Dragon01]

I mostly agree with Frost but without the venom.

I don't care that we have to find the fissure, exploration is supposed to be a thing and it wasn't

Frankly the old void system was better.  My main is this ps4 account but I also have a little MR 11 on PC where I tested the new stuff.  This new system just adds a double excavation mission to every possible mission on the map.  I hate excavation missions.  The entire needing to pick up an item mechanic sucks and should be done away with.  What ninja would spend 2-3 seconds carefully picking some random speck of dust off the ground while also being completely unable to fight during the animation?!  We sacrificed mission type for mission tile set.  This was a lateral move at best.

There are progression issues but they are not well explained here.  There was a different thread that showed 7 junctions needed to be cleared for a new player to access their first neural sensor that did a much better job of explaining the new progression issues.

I HATE not being able to host keys for friends who don't have keys.  I get that the new system was designed to accommodate key sharing, but I would gladly dump it so I could help my friends again.

I HATE the loss of endless void missions.  These missions had their place not only as a difficulty select but as a rewarding activity one could sink time into.  As it stand now, I have no reason to ever go further than 15mins if I even want to bother with that.  We did need the 5% drop rate on round C drops fixed but this completely missed the mark.

I HATE the void has lost it's meaning.  It used to be where we found the best stuff in the game, but now we don't even need to ever see the void to get a full prime set.  I now have no reason to go to the void besides argon crystals.  The void is the new Jupiter.  (Definition of Jupiter:  A place that does not need to exist except as a place to find a rare resource only found there.)

This update fixed a lot of meta problems but absolutely killed actual game play.  Closing the fissures was extremely underwhelming.  It was not fun.  It was not challenging.  I just won't void farm if its timed excavation missions every single time.  I'll just quit for a year till that gets fixed, and if it does not I will never come back.

However, only complaining leads nowhere.  My proposed solution is that any group of 4 or less with the SAME OR NO relic can start a void fissure mission.  The mission starts in the void and leads to a random mission on the other side of the void portal (like on void sabotage).  Endless missions are grouped together and short missions are grouped together.  Entering the portal consumes all relics even if you fail.  You do not know the mission type(beyond endless or short) or tileset until you enter the portal.  All endless mission types are condensed into to two tables A and B.  Common stuff in A.  Rare stuff in B.  Rotations go AABABABABABABAB....  Once the mission is complete or for endless missions the players decide to extract the players cross back through the void portal and then extract from the void.  The number of reward rolls is determined by the number of relics used to start the mission, and anyone can choose any reward.  For endless types the number of rolls is the same and players must choose rewards every 5mins/waves or they cannot act.

TL;DR Oh for the love of god, I hate excavation missions and will quit Warframe if every relic mission is an excavation mission.

Edited July 11, 2016 by (PS4)Final_Dragon01
clarity

[FrostDragoon]

By the way, there's nothing interesting about that progression either. There's no story behind it, the missions don't become more interesting/complex/fun, and the only differences between an Interception on Earth and on Ceres are the level and the crafting resources for that planet.

There's nothing interesting about it.

[XoRted]

So after painstakingly farming for 100 void traces (which you get between 2 and 18 per mission) I realised that the maximum amount of traces you can have at any one time is 100. Also refining a relic to Radiant will only put the rarest drop to slightly higher chance, and by slightly higher i mean from there is still a much higher chance of you getting the common or uncommon drop than the rare. 

So basically in order to refine one relic to radiant (only prime items i need any longer are the rare drops) i need to run on average 10 unrefined relics and then hope that i get the ~1/12 drop sure i get to choose between 4 drops if we are 4 players in the mission but if we all aren't using radiant refined relics for the same item then the drop chance for what we are hunting is still at best ~1/12 which if my math serves me is about ~120 missions inorder to farm the drop that you are looking for (if it's one of the rare drops). 

That's about all i've got to say about the rift missions, the whole nullifier/bombard spawn issue has been well and truely mentioned by a lot of earlier players.

 

On to "Void  missions" I was looking forward to some new fun missions to clear my starmap once more but so far all i've discovered is that you need a team of 4 to clear the neptune and sedna paths as the first mission on the sedna path is completely impossible solo, you get 1 shot by the majority of enemies and there are enough nullfier spawns that you can't "cheese" it. As for the neptune string, i was able to clear up to the final mission which is a defence mission and i find it understandable that you need at least a couple of players to clear that.

 

All in all i think the update was definitely needed but it definitely needs to be refined a lot more, farming for prime items/ducats has become slower and more expensive, you only get one prime part per relic now as opposed to several in the key system. The farming of prime parts has become more repetitive as well, instead of having lots of different missions that you could play, now you only play these rift missions where the collection of the actual prime part is exactly the same for every mission (you you have to complete a primary objective as well)

[CarrotSalad]

I guess im the only one who's failed a few missions already because even though i was killing the voidlings as they spawned on me. They werent dropping the yellow orb things i needed to close that hole.

[FrostDragoon]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)Final_Dragon01 said:

 

I mostly agree with Frost but without the venom.

 

It usually takes a lot for me to bring "venom" against a dev team for a game I love, but turning it into a game that is no longer fun/enjoyable to play is a surefire way to get that result.

[VRHmason]

So what happens when you spend your thingy on a mission that doesn't spawn fissure? You waste your time.

I've been now in team with 2 others, looking for fissure on map for over 20 minutes, went through ALL map and haven't found it, because it wasn't there. I won't even go into amount of traces you get...this is just a joke.

[notlamprey]

I uh... I really like the new system.

I'll agree that sometimes the fissures take a while to find. It can be irritating.

I sort of don't know what to tell people about the nullifiers, though. I tend to stay right near the fissure, and having them spawn right on top of me is actually ideal because it means I'm already inside the bubble to deliver swift death. I don't find it difficult, I really don't.

It sucks that so many people are having a bad time with the fissures, but I'm having more fun than I ever did. Being able to jump into a public game and get better loot in less time than before is pretty wonderful. Just give it a chance.

Maybe it's the sort of system that only works for some people who are "thinking about it the right way" or something. Maybe you have to magically understand it in order to enjoy it, and only some people are ever going to get that experience. I dunno.

It's possible that this new system really dumps on players who don't have great equipment yet. I'm a veteran with everything, and I mean everything, so it's possible that I'm totally blind to a lot of new difficulty.

It sucks that people aren't having fun; no argument there. Just try to give it a chance, and try running with groups if you don't like the hunt for the fissure. Let's just please not riot and tell DE to throw it in the trash just yet. I kept learning and learning about how it all works, and I'm really glad I did. Give it time, folks.

[k05h]

3 hours ago, Trichouette said:

YOU don't mind, some people do. I'm sick of playing against corrupted and leaving the full solar map to rot because there is nothing to do on it, sick of this void tileset and sick of dealing with corrupted all the time. Your opinion isn't for everybody.

I think it all comes down to who their target audience for this drastic change is? Are those the 1000+ hour players, or the 250+ hours or "rookies" below 100h? 

If I was to play Void missions for thousand (or thousends of) hours I can image I would burn out on it. But if you play (like me) only occasionally and wait for big updates then going back to Void mission is like coming home. You take out your meanest frame, your biggest gun and jump right into it. Everybody knows the drill and even those casuals can join without farming a key. 

Void survival and void defense were the "signature" missions of Warframe. Like raids in WoW. Noone would ever remove raids from WoW because they are tiresome or people burned out on it. Change is always appreciated but Void missions were broken or boring only for those that played them like forever. But why does DE punish those of us that thouroughly enjoyed Void missions?

[Trichouette]

9 minutes ago, k0Sh_wf said:

But why does DE punish those of us that thouroughly enjoyed Void missions?

Because they're trying to create a more interesting system with less grind and more content than just "farm over and over the same void mission"

I don't even understand how people like the void. It's all white and gold, the crosshair is hidden, the nullifiers take all the space, the bombards shoot dozen of rockets in your faces every minute (rockets which are, homing like crazy and almost invisible because they're golden on a white & gold environment).

[Shockwave-]

3 hours ago, Alvin_1020 said:

This system is indeed more complicated than the old way, but I kinda like it despite some issues (Primarily due to massive decrease in quantity of junks aka less ducats).

I like the fact that the new system had some skills onto it and require you explore a bit this beautiful world, instead of exploring the map to find a water tunnel in the old void just to appreciate the Orokin sewage system for like 2 hours :)

The new system require people to think strategies for it..... oh wait, this is the internet where people have no (insert a word here)....

I look at it a different way.

The new system has far LESS skill to it. Instead of needing to get a frost, Nova, and some DPS frames together for a 60 wave Defense mission, you need to... well nothing. Just jump in randomly and close the fissure on low level capture mission. Doesn't matter who comes, or if they are good, you can do the mission AND close the tear by yourself anyway.

This new system REQUIRES you to do missions on the starmap tilesets that nobody was CHOOSING to do before the change. Now we are hamhandedly forced to do the MD on Europa instead of the void. or earth instead of the void, and MD on earth is EASY compared to a even a T1 MD in the void... But for 30 seconds i have to close a void tear....

The new system requires NO thinking compared to the void which actually required some thinking and planning and strategy.

[FrostDragoon]

@notlamprey

"Give it a chance" is too late. I did. I tried it a bunch, but groups keep falling apart, the fissure likes to glitch out and either not spawn or spawn outside of the level, the new keys system is extremely anti-social compared to the old one (unless everyone has refined theirs), the fissures aren't on the mini-map, and the fissures themselves are not a fun mode--let alone to layer it on top of an existing mission.

It's not a question of learning or understanding. It's a question of "Why the hell did they make it into this?"

Edited July 11, 2016 by FrostDragoon

[VRHmason]

7 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

Because they're trying to create a more interesting system with less grind and more content than just "farm over and over the same void mission"

Well they failed in it, cuz it's not interesting and again you play same mission over and over....not as much but rng and playing same mission is still here.

[Trichouette]

Just now, VRHmason said:

Well they failed in it, cuz it's not interesting and again you play same mission over and over....not as much but rng and playing same mission is still here.

Honestly, I prefer "play  X mission type and make a mini-excavation to obtain a reward between 4 available" instead of "play the same mission over and over and oops you need to grind more keys for that particular mission"

Only the tiny excavation part is always the same, the mission change.

(or well, I prefer this as long as they find a way to hint us on the fissure's location)

[Hayzemet]

I don't believe that fissures are going to stay that way, stop crying, they haven't even delivered a real hotfix. FFS

Also, void fissures are not that hard, I've soloed all of them so I'm sure it is not as bad as you make it sound. Patience is your best friend.

Going through the starchart may be tedious, but it is needed.

6 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

For the new upped ante of hassle (not even difficulty) that fissures present, the "trash" loot should be distributed elsewhere on the star map among the regular planets and have something actually rewarding in their place.

What? do you even mean by this?

[VRHmason]

2 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

Honestly, I prefer "play  X mission type and make a mini-excavation to obtain a reward between 4 available" instead of "play the same mission over and over and oops you need to grind more keys for that particular mission"

Only the tiny excavation part is always the same, the mission change.

(or well, I prefer this as long as they find a way to hint us on the fissure's location)

So whats the difference? you still need to grind relics instead of keys but now you have to grind traces as well,  you still have to do same S#&$ (fissure) in order to get item you need and you still have rng...so to simplify, the only thing that changes is map (environment) this is even worse because if you play survival or capture you do the same thing, exactly the same thing on every map for every item.

So the difference is playing same map for number of items for that map (rotations and multiple items, also rng) , and now we have playing different maps but doing same thing EVERY TIME on EVERY MAP for 4 items and playing endless missions doesn't help you at all.

Please explain how is this any different? How is this any better? Now it seems like you have 1 mission type , fissure, with a side mission like capture or exterminate.

[Trichouette]

1 minute ago, VRHmason said:

 

So the difference is playing same map for number of items for that map (rotations and multiple items, also rng) , and now we have playing different maps but doing same thing EVERY TIME on EVERY MAP for 4 items and playing endless missions doesn't help you at all.

Please explain how is this any different? How is this any better? Now it seems like you have 1 mission type , fissure, with a side mission like capture or exterminate.

Well first, the mission type rotate and I can just farm for the correct relic while waiting for a nice and easy mission like capture or exterminate (not forced anymore to do defense or survival)

Second, I can see the loot table in game, and I can increase the loot chance of rare items.

And my favorite part, you get to choose among 4 items if you play with a team, so you have an even bigger chance of obtaining what you want with less grinding time.