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[DE]Taylor

Archwing Movement Overhaul Feedback [Megathread]

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Hey Tenno! 

This megathread will be used to house any feedback about the new Archwing Movement. Please be constructive, and keep the following guidelines in mind:

  • Your post must be on topic.
  • Use details, examples, and personal experiences in your feedback, as well as your counter arguments if you disagree with something in the game or with another's opinion. 
  • Leave all name calling, insults and antagonism (dev bashing) out of your post, no exceptions. It is not required or welcomed and does not fall under constructive feedback. 

If you have a bug report, please post it in the dedicated megathread:

Thanks guys! :community:

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Hotfix: Specters of the Rail 1

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Archwing Changes & Fixes:

  • Fixed an issue with players spawning at the starting location of an Archwing mission instead of their last location after a host migration.
  • Fixed an issue where you could not sell Archwing suits and weapons.

Rush

  • Stasis mine freeze procs will now be removed when outside of the mine radius and when the mine is destroyed.
  • Adjusted mission timer to compensate for the above change and for slightly increased difficulty.
  • Slightly increased the health of supply ships and orbiters.
  • Fixed an issue with mines clipping into level geometry.
  • Tweaks for mines, beams, shockwaves, and explosion sound effects.

Pursuit

  • Added in a safety time buffer after a host migration occurs so as to allow players to orient themselves properly.
  • Improved the way the Archwing Pursuit game mode handles host migrations.

Archwing & Warframe Sale Price Revisions:

Archwing and Warframe items have had their sale points revised to the following:

  • Standard Archings and Warframe = 10,000 Credits
  • Prime Archwings and Warframes = 25,000 Credits
  • Standard Archwing Primary weapons = 500 Credits

Hotfix: Specters of the Rail 5

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  • Fixed new Archwing gun Mods only increasing Impact Status’.

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As much as I enjoy the rest of the Specters update, I think that the change to Archwing Movement is a complete miss, and here's why.

While the old system was mostly a glorified 2D movement with changing your altitude, it still felt more crisp. It reminded me of an old game from the PS2 era, Zone of the Enders, which prided itself on ultra-fast and acrobatic robot fighting action. In that system, Warframe felt much the same actually. I had full control of my movement, my thrust and boosts were momentary, I could rapidly leap between directions, accelerate, deaccelrate on a whim. Basically, I felt like a ninja-in-space.

The new system feels closer to Elite: Dangerous, and... not entirely so. The control went to resemble more of a spaceship, with a general forward thrust and being able to start moving up and down with a chance to jerk myself left and right with sideway tapping. Technically we have the full 6-axis control, but my roll just sort of happens to change randomly in one direction when I fly forward for a given time. I haven't found any controls to allow me to manually adjust that. Additionally, velocity decay dropped. Technically, this is more realistic (no friction in space so you kill what you wind up and all that), but this makes archwing control that much more sluggish. I'm legit afraid to boost in smaller areas (Corpus Sabotage comes to mind, the area I used to be able to zoom past on afterburners from start to finish) because the sudden velocity jump will flatten me against the next convenient flat surface with very little in way of actually slowing down.

So that's my three cents.

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Yeah, we need separate bindings for archwing, making you actually turn is all well and good but since we have no controls for rolling our archwing, its really pointless right now, and we need separate binding because i would put rolling on q and e so melee would need to be on r since ya cant really reload in archwing. we also need a option to turn off melee autoleveling, since there are people like me who consider up a direction, not a orientation (at least, while in space).

It feels cool, but until I get those options I'm probably not gonna touch it much.

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Fluctus can't damage the Pursuit target, beyond that the movement feels pretty good, just hard to get used to not sliding anymore.

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For large open maps, there should be a designated horizon "a.k.a right side up" and a key binding that allows the archwing to return to this horizon.

The reticle could use a horizon line to reflect orientation.

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What I dislike about Archwing right now is that the camera perspective has been arbitrarily zoomed in which not only makes it hard to see due to the character model blocking half the screen but it makes melee more unconformable to use especially when you're trying to hit an enemy only for you to be hitting nothing because the "blinking melee attack" (in other words, you instantly teleport to an enemy to hit them with your melee weapon within range) is obstructed by this camera zoom.

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15 minutes ago, IronWolfKnight said:

What I dislike about Archwing right now is that the camera perspective has been arbitrarily zoomed in which not only makes it hard to see due to the character model blocking half the screen but it makes melee more unconformable to use especially when you're trying to hit an enemy only for you to be hitting nothing because the "blinking melee attack" (in other words, you instantly teleport to an enemy to hit them with your melee weapon within range) is obstructed by this camera zoom.

Came here to post this.

Please, zoom out the camera a little bit.

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I have the same issue with the new camera.  Please add a zoom slider or just pull it back so that larger weapons do not obscure vision.  The blocking you see below is even worse if I were to strafe left.

 

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1 hour ago, robbybe01234 said:

I have the same issue with the new camera.  Please add a zoom slider or just pull it back so that larger weapons do not obscure vision.  The blocking you see below is even worse if I were to strafe left.

 

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This has to be a bug, no way is the zoomed in camera intended, the camera was fine where it was, and only got that close due to a bug, I really hope its not intended.

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It feels like there is a drag onto the movement right now, like there is deceleration. I'll have to do more testing with different mods for speed but I was bumping around quite a bit on Corpus Extermination.

 

Like other said, we need separate key binds for rolling and option to disable auto leveling, a camera zoom would also be appreciated, I play on max FOV but I'd like to zoom out a little bit more still.

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Ok so I like where its going and though a little bit floaty that's most likely because I'm not used to it. HOWEVER the map is now just flat out useless before it was bad but still usable as movement was largely 2D in a way making a 2D map work. Now because of the constantly changing angle of view the map is impossible to use on open maps and usable in closed ones because I already know all the paths there. Also can we have a separate field of view in archwing that goes way past what the one for ground combat dose. In archwing the amount of space your ship takes up and how you move gives major tunnel vision and is now slightly nauseating.

 

EDIT: Word choice

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I like the new movement, but I have a couple of "complaints":

- is it intended the remove of the "slide"? It was a nice mean to shoot a couple of enemies while keeping the speed of the sprint. Without it, I have a strong feeling of something missing.

- now inertia is more realistic, and it's nice, but as others already said it reduces manoeuvrability. Could it be possible to introduce a brake? I think it would reduce a lot of problems, in particular in trench runs

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We need rolling/banking controls please! If buttons are an issue you already have a "roll" key for regular missions, perhaps utilize this in conjunction with strafe keys to perform a roll in the chosen direction?

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I hate the new flight system. It has far too much inertia and, if you do something like the corpus trench run, it's highly disorienting. I'm not one to get motion sickness often, but I'm getting a lot of it now :/

I'd like it if they kept the floating crosshair that they've added, but the rest is a mess.

 

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This certainly isn't something I can enjoy in its current state - even ignoring how a single mission was enough to make me feel nauseous due to motion sickness. I recall that being cited as why movement of that nature never made it into the original release of archwing.

The attempt at what I assume to be more realistic movement makes it feels sluggish and unresponsive, that combined with the constantly shifting camera angle combined with a now compartively jarring high speed snap with melee's lockon (that is frankly the only part of it that feels like 'high speed' and 'fluid' combat now) makes the entire experience feel unpolished and inconsistant.

The heavy feeling inertia that was added the last time did little to gain favour with me, but at this point i'd actually be quite thankful if we had a option we could toggle to use it, instead of the current system.

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I posted on another general thread until I found this. Basically, players are getting motion sickness from the new flight controls and camera. I had to playing because the sickness was severe. Please give the option to enable the previous control system and camera. New system noticeably slower when sprinting and boosting. There's no button to re-position yourself if you are upside down.  

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9 minutes ago, DJMetalhawk said:

I posted on another general thread until I found this. Basically, players are getting motion sickness from the new flight controls and camera. I had to playing because the sickness was severe. Please give the option to enable the previous control system and camera. New system noticeably slower when sprinting and boosting. There's no button to re-position yourself if you are upside down.  

same here - this has to be the most nauseating thing in warframe's history.

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Just gunna copy this from my own personal review on U19. 

 

---The new 6 Axis Control for archwing is Highly disorientating, Combined with the placement of the camera way too close to the back of the archwing, Archwing is actually worse than it was before. The new game modes Pursuit and Rush are no better.

-------Pursuit, chasing down a Grineer ship, destroying parts of it to slowly take it down all while fending off other enemies, missiles and turrets... There is no tutorial, no indication where to shoot and when you do finally stop it, 90% of your bullets pass cleanly through the side of it and have no effect (Bad hit reg).

-------As for Rush, it was advertised as a mission where you chase down corpus transports, and the more you destroy, the better the reward, First off... what constitutes a good reward in archwing? Secondly, you are traveling through a gauntlet of broken ships pathways full of an over abundance of stasis mines that are more annoying then many give them credit for, and to top it all off, you have to use the new movement system which is more likely to ram you into the nearest wall. On top of all that, there are only 3 targets and they don't move. This is an over glorified capture mission(without the actual 'press x to capture') for archwing.

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Who has EVER asked DE to keep on tweaking the flight model???  It was absolutely fine in its very first iteration, and it's only gotten worse since. 

This is not a flight sim, repeat not a flight sim, and it's stupid to try and make the flight model like a flight sim, it's only going to alienate players from AW even more.  Ditch all the changes and go back to the original model, it was simple and straightforward.

Also, yea, the camera.

DE: the flight model and the combat system have never been that much of a problem, people generally don't avoid AW because the combat is intrinsically S#&$ in some way and needs to be continually tweaked to some sort of abstract flight sim ideal; they don't play AW because the progression is painfully slow, there aren't enough missions for it, and the rewards are pathetic.

On the positive side, it seems to be quite a bit easier to shoot things, the simple circular reticle is much better - God knows that that mess of lines was they used to have, but it never made a lick of sense.

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Frankly, these changes seem to have been made with only maps like Caelus in mind.  Last I played it, Caelus was wide and open - perfect for a lot of these changes, honestly.  However, one tileset doesn't justify the cluster%*( that is this Archwing update.  Amongst all the things listed here, I would like to point out the following:

  • ADS with your arch-gun no longer breaks you out of a "sprint/boosting" state like before.  Even using something slow like Elytron, there is still enough momentum maintained from aiming + sprinting simultaneously to where I've downed myself several times in missions.
  • The "bouncing into walls until you're dead" bug that was previously removed from the game is now back as a result of how strong of an effect inertia now plays in the game
  • Using Archwing abilities no longer breaks you out of a "sprint/boosting" state (i.e. they are all operating as one-handed abilities used by Warframes normally would on foot). Now I can Cosmic Crush while maintaining a good 90% of my velocity in Itzal (probably more, but I'm being generous here with rounding off).
    • Conversely, using Penumbra with Itzal while "sprinting/boosting" will instantly break the ability even if you release the sprint/boost button.  I normally play with the game set for Toggle Sprint, but with Archwing I had to force myself over to Hold to Sprint.  Even then, this is overkill.  Having to change entire control schemes to play what amounts to be a secondary game mode for Warframe is not what I would consider to be a viable solution.

Suggestions are pretty straight-forward for the issues I mentioned:

  • Re-enable ADS overriding the sprint/boost option.  If you absolutely feel the need to keep this as a function, then add an Exilus mod slot to Archwings and make an Exilus Mod solely for being able to boost + aim simultaneously.  Archwing needs more mods as it is so I don't see an issue here either..
  • Re-enable Archwing abilities overriding the sprint/boost options.  There are only a handful of Archwing abliities that should be able to be cast on the move as it is.  I'd imagine this would do more in the long-run than leaving everything castable on the move, but even then it shouldn't be difficult to restructure a handful of abilities to be castable while moving if this was an intended design change. 
  • Re-evaluate the amount of inertia being applied to Archwings.  As is, you've effectively ruled Itzal out for anything that requires even a modest amount of precision.  I'd assume Amesha doesn't fare much better with a Sprint/Boost Speed of 1.10.  And don't even bother using Hyperion Thrusters on the current setup unless you enjoy making Archwing-style pancakes on the hulls of Corpus ships.

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My first experience with the new Archwing movement can only be described as "not good". From what I've seen:

  • The camera is WAY too close to the player and needs to be pulled back to where it was before this update
    • It gets even worse when using melee, often causing the camera to practically glitch into your Archwing, creating the most disorienting camera view and movements I've ever seen in this game.
  • While fluid, the new movement only works in wide open maps
    • I've only tried one of the new pursuit missions (which was a challenge on its own for both in-game mechanics and my fault for not replacing my keyboard yet with one that will let me press shift+space to activate the overdrive), which is nothing more than an asteroid field, but the amount of drifting and sliding around must be a nightmare in corridors, especially since I saw someone mention it brought back the horrendous pinball wall death.
  • This new movement system was clearly made without the Itzal in mind.
    • Probably my biggest disappointment, but unless you're at a complete standstill, the Itzal's Penumbra won't activate. It doesn't matter if you've taken your finger off the acceleration key; if your still drifting through space, you're not going invisible. In my opinion, this pretty much killed the Itzal for me.

Honestly, I don't know who in DE thinks we need these changes to Archwing, but they're just making an already unpopular mode worse.

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The new archwing movement system isn't something I would've asked for. The old system, while unrealistic, worked nicely.

The angular changes are odd, but acceptable. The camera is definitely too close. It's hard to turn properly without drifting into walls, which the old system suffered from but it was more manageable. If the camera had better placement and archwings were better at turning, I could see the new movement system being pretty good.

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