Archwing Movement Overhaul Feedback [Megathread]

[[DE]Taylor]

On 08/07/2016 at 10:10 AM, [DE]Taylor said:

Hotfix: Specters of the Rail 1

Quote

Archwing Changes & Fixes:

• Fixed an issue with players spawning at the starting location of an Archwing mission instead of their last location after a host migration.
• Fixed an issue where you could not sell Archwing suits and weapons.

Rush

• Stasis mine freeze procs will now be removed when outside of the mine radius and when the mine is destroyed.
• Adjusted mission timer to compensate for the above change and for slightly increased difficulty.
• Slightly increased the health of supply ships and orbiters.
• Fixed an issue with mines clipping into level geometry.
• Tweaks for mines, beams, shockwaves, and explosion sound effects.

Pursuit

• Added in a safety time buffer after a host migration occurs so as to allow players to orient themselves properly.
• Improved the way the Archwing Pursuit game mode handles host migrations.

Archwing & Warframe Sale Price Revisions:

Archwing and Warframe items have had their sale points revised to the following:

• Standard Archings and Warframe = 10,000 Credits
• Prime Archwings and Warframes = 25,000 Credits
• Standard Archwing Primary weapons = 500 Credits

Quoting new hotfix information for visibility. Sorry about the delay in updating this thread! The amount of feedback received has been incredible - thank you all for submitting your thoughts and opinions! We're working on a new hotfix as we/I speak/type.

[oceano4]

I have a problem. I use Windows controller, and when I try to change Archwing bindings (I still can;t block with my melee) it changes my onfoot movement too.. 

[Dan1lo]

The new system has changed not only the degrees of freedom, but also how momentum works... Trying these new settings on Corpus Ship missions was a bad experience, I can't speed through narrow corridors and 90 degree curves anymore, because there's so much momentum going on (I drift into walls).

You can always boost to rapidly change your direction; and braking (pressing S after letting go of boost) is also a valid tactic... but you have to let go almost all of the momentum before you maneuver to another direction.

Lastly, there doesn't seem to be any control over rotation. Sometimes you rotate to an unwanted angle and have to wait until the game rotates you back where you want to be.

 

Comparing this system to general Flight Simulator commands:

• You are always going forward, the engines are always on
• To make a turn, you have to roll to the direction you want and pull up
• You have accelerate and brake buttons to go faster or slower
• You have yaw buttons to make small curves without having to roll

 

[Nagasadri]

Honestly, the old system was fine imo. What made some people hate archwing so much was the lack of content outside of weapons and other archwings.
You had to run so many times the same 4 missions over and over again to get everything, it made on-foot grind seem fun.
The feeling that they had to start over since the on-foot progression they worked for had no bearing on the archwing side of things certainly didn't help.

The only thing that made me and my clan keep playing it was the way archwing handled. You could FEEL the star wars inspiration, like the nimble millenium falcon going inside the relatively HUGE death star to destroy it from the inside. You basicaly felt like a fly dashing through a doorway right before it closed at each corner.
I was looking forward to the chase gamemode as i thought i would feel like a mosquito stinging an elephant until it collapsed under it's own weight, but i didn't expect to end up playing AS an elephant chasing a mosquito around...

Sabotages used to be me and my clanmates, afterburners blazing, not letting go of spacebar until we destroyed the core, and then racing each other back to extraction.
Now, you can't even take corners while sprinting as moving the camera isn't enough to make tight turns anymore, and trying to compensate by strafing irremediably results in you getting hurled into walls because of the side roll. My teamates won't even play archwing anymore if they can avoid it and i wish i could disagree with them because i really tried to make it work ! I spent almost an hour training in solo sabotage and fine-tuning the new archwing-specific sensibility sliders, but it just doesn't do the job.
I don't have anybody to heal with the Amesha, now. I genuinely dread the upcoming archwing races if we have to run them like this.

The ONLY thing i would keep from this archwing iteration is the ability to shoot forward while sprinting/afterburning. It alows me to shoot my way through windows without slowing down. Otherwise, i think the old system was better in every regard and i would give anything to at least have the option to enable it in the menu.

[robbybe01234]

Lone suggestion:

Add Void fissures to Archwing modes. 

This should improve player base for archwing, and allow people a way to get things outside of normal missions.  This can possibly reduce mission fatigue. 

[StonedMakak]

On 11.07.2016 at 3:33 AM, rockscl said:

Watchout:

 

Spnning your mouse in circles actually changes your rotation and it is actually reliable

It kinda works. However it also made me realize that lack of rotation control is not the thing that makes me wanna puke, it's the effing autorotation. So pretty please DE, at the very least disable this damn thing in the next hotfix, and implement proper controls using many fine suggestions provided. I can deal with the upside-down, rollercoaster gameplay, but not when the bloody archwing is in perpetual barrel roll mode.

Edited July 12, 2016 by tisdfogg

[Sir_Karrasko]

The archwing's old moviments were so much better.This new controls are bad, the new camera is so close and because of that we can barely see the enemies not mention how much commits the combat system using melees. Find enemies become a tough task because is so hard to see. Please comeback for the old camera and moviment....it's not perfect but still was playable. I know you guys have a good intentions and want innovate archwing's gameplay but i don't fell this is the right path. Please Devs rethink about those changes.

I love archwing but....

My honest request .... Thanks !!!!!

[Luario]

New model without possibility to rotate manually is really bad and brings motion sickness instead of satisfaction. We really need more control of our movement to make it good, for now it's rotating chaos. Another thing is the current zoom at player. Why? Right know it covers from 1/3 to half of my screen. It's so unnecessary.

Moving parts of weapons to syndycates is not a bad thing, it removes exhausting farming the same missions but on the other hand farming parts was making us lvling up our equipment which is difficult to max anyway. Still I'm leaning to it as being a good thing with a bit of unsureness.

[ScorpDK]

The movement system is okay, but now the minimap is even more useless than before. Kinda wish this change had come with a intuitive 3D map that shows what's infront/behind above/below and left/right in a way that makes it clear. Enemies have markers, but items/containers do not.

[m4xwellmurd3r]

9 hours ago, Dan1lo said:

The new system has changed not only the degrees of freedom, but also how momentum works... Trying these new settings on Corpus Ship missions was a bad experience, I can't speed through narrow corridors and 90 degree curves anymore, because there's so much momentum going on (I drift into walls).

You can always boost to rapidly change your direction; and braking (pressing S after letting go of boost) is also a valid tactic... but you have to let go almost all of the momentum before you maneuver to another direction.

Lastly, there doesn't seem to be any control over rotation. Sometimes you rotate to an unwanted angle and have to wait until the game rotates you back where you want to be.

 

Comparing this system to general Flight Simulator commands:

• You are always going forward, the engines are always on
• To make a turn, you have to roll to the direction you want and pull up
• You have accelerate and brake buttons to go faster or slower
• You have yaw buttons to make small curves without having to roll

 

You're in space dude, there's no resistance acting against your inertia besides your thrusters. Honestly, it's EASIER for me to take 90 degree turns now. I let go of all controls, tap back, whip my mouse towards the turn, then boots through the corridor. I like the inertia and sensation of being in space.

It doesn't work like a plane on earth, it works a space shuttle in space.

What we need is roll control, auto roll disabled, X,Y positioning on the hud (in relation to 0 on the X axis to the map) and a 3d positioning map

[ElfenLiedist]

I really need the camera to be moved out more, or the option to move the camera out, playing archwing is making me nauseous because 50% of the screen is my frame and I can hardly tell where I'm going.

[Glacialchill]

Thanks all at DE for this great new system! Turning upside down for the first time felt like having shackles taken of my wrists. But, i do have some feedback for the system as a whole.

I like how the escape button orients you back to the original intended setup,  and i am somewhat confused by the auto-orientation. It is very disorienting to have your angle of view changed without your own control, and it makes aiming very awkward if you have to guess which direction your pointer will have to be corrected to track a target. Of the entire list of Archwing changes, that is my only complaint. 

As a suggestion, i think it would be helpful toward everyone's preferences if there was a slider in the options dedicated to this autocorrection, which would change the delay between inactivity and the rotation, with the longest seeing turning off the effect completely. This would allow people who are new to this system or who get motion sick to quickly get back to their contort zone, and flight simulator/nitronic rush veterans like myself to not become confused as their roll struggles with its authority issues.

Keep being awesome DE!

Edited July 12, 2016 by Glacialchill
Autocorrect changed one of my words completely. Dang machines aint gonna rule my life

[Dan1lo]

7 minutes ago, m4xwellmurd3r said:

It doesn't work like a plane on earth, it works a space shuttle in space.

Thanks for the insight.

My point wasn't to mimick airplane physics in space, it was that you usually have more control over direction than speed, whereas in the current archwing you have to control both and "quite poorly". The older system had less degrees of freedom and resulted in more amazing fast paced maneauvers (because you only needed to control a portion of the movement, not stuff like rotation). I think this one can be tweaked up just a little bit.

In a sidenote, even in space our space crafts have extremely advanced technlogy to aid us not drifting away when we don't want to! Omnidirectional thrusters, stabilizers, emergency brakes ^^ hehe

[m4xwellmurd3r]

but to me having more control over direction rather than speed makes sense in space. Every game I've played with some sort of space combat works that way. You can change direction extremely quickly, but your inertia causes you to drift unless you actively work to negate it.

[MasterControl]

Roll controls are definitely needed. That, and the camera doesn't need to be so close. It feels so.. Claustrophobic. My character takes up a third of the screen.

[Brasten]

11 minutes ago, m4xwellmurd3r said:

You're in space dude, there's no resistance acting against your inertia besides your thrusters.

Which has no relevance in a game with Space Magic, asteroid wide artificial gravity, actual teleportation, energy to matter conversion, and a whole list of other pure Space Fantasy tropes. It's nice to have nods towards realism in a game trying for hard sci-fi, but that is not Warframe. I love my share of harder sci-fi, both books and games, but even games like X3 don't have as much inertia retention as Archwing 2.0 movement does. It is a functional and demonstrated impenitent to play in the tightly packed "Trench Run" corpus levels, and when that happens realism can take a back seat. This is not Kerbal Space Program, Space Engineers, StarMade, or pick your pick.

Archwing 2.0 is more like, as I said, flying on ice.

We also don't have the kind of Speed control that games like X3 or Strike Suit Zero have, which allow those games to work.

[Sheegrah]

The new system feels very smooth and the new unlimited movement is impressive. I would have loved to zoom through space like this, it seems like fun! But honestly, I've never gotten THIS motion sick this fast before. Just did a short archwing exterminate alert around earth, and ended up having to look away and spam energy packs and abilities just to get through it.

The camera is way too close to the actual character model. And I wish the camera would stop rotating around itself EVERY TIME you are not moving and trying to get your bearings. I think it's trying to get back to it's default alignment? But in the case of motion sickness, this lack of control over the camera just makes everything much, much worse.

Also, on the topic of motion sickness (if you care), when you fly around and turn with the archwing left or right, the camera seems to move too slowly in that given direction. It feels very floaty, (which I supose fits,) but this is another thing that quickly becomes nauseating.

[N64Gamefreak]

DE, please reduce the shield decay in the tunnel part of the third stage of the Jordas Verdict trial.  Movement through the tunnels is far more difficult now.

 

[SleepyKitty]

I'm really liking the new movement system.  It was initally a little bit jarring coming from the old movement, but after a couple games with some experimentation and now over the transition shock...... i'm liking it more and more.  Definitely an improvement over the old.  And that animation for when you boost back in the opposite direction to the current momentum just feels so ~right~ too.

Being able to fire your guns while sprinting and boosting feels much nicer as well.  Seriously, you've not lived till you've boosted to max speed at a horde, emptied your fluctus and raced the energy waves to and then through the group - coming out the other side surrounded by the almost simultaneous explosions :D  

That said, could be improved in a couple ways.  Manual roll controls would be nice because that auto-roll is kinda disorienting, and the map needs a HUGE overhaul for archwing now.  Honestly tying to use the map like you would in the game proper kinda left me feeling a little motion sick, but just ignoring it cleared that up quite fast fortunately. 

And on the subject of motion-sickness, the dual decurion still hold their claim to fame, being the only thing in a video game that actually made me walk away to get over the motion-sickness lol.  Literally can't use those guns, not that you'd want to with the stats but still.  ¬_¬  

[VelarozDosun]

My overall complaints:

I feel like my overall depth of field has been lessened by being zoomed in to my character's back in this game mode. The automatic reorientation of the Archwing/frame beyond the player's control based solely on what the player is looking at is horrid and somewhat nauseating. Movement in 6 degree freedom needs to be under the "Pilot's" control, and never automatic, please.

The Pursuit target needs its shield generators made a little more obvious. I couldn't tell what in the hell I needed to shoot/hit when doing the mission.

[Zookes]

On 7/8/2016 at 9:04 PM, Bouldershoulder said:

Aaand I have not the slightest idea how people play shooter-fighter-flight mixes on controllers.. I wouldn't..

In flight simulation games, the control stick is usually pitch and yaw, and the shoulder plungers would be roll. It's pretty intuitive.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Zookes
grmr

[RG870]

FoV and the rotational correction made me feel motion sick for the first time in 15+ years. Haven't had issues with it since back in the days of early 3D games (low resolution + fps). I'd love to get the old AW movement mechanic back (make it an option). At least get rid of the auto rotation and give us an FoV slider.

I just did the 2 waves Nitain alert AW Interception and sweat like a pig plus got a headache like I had been doing /use_head_with_wall during the whole mission.

Edited July 12, 2016 by RG870

[Vitodo]

The new Archwing movement that "corrects" flight slightly turning the screen (clockwise / counter clockwise) even in a straight path made me experience motion sickness issues while playing a few missions, talking to some friends I was not the only one that had this "naughty experience".

Plus, as the map doesn't have a stall marker, you can find yourself lost without a "reset position" button.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Vitodo
text added

[Uhkretor]

I didn't get any problems with it but... then again...

 

... Descent since age 7.

[TheCourier93]

Hello all!

I have to admit the new Archwing overhaul now actually makes me rather motion sick from the auto rotation when stationary and also moving around while it rotates makes me rather ill. i think you should have an option to have a auto level feature so i don't wanna puke every time I'm in space!