Archwing Movement Overhaul Feedback [Megathread]

[Valarfax]

I'm glad it's not just me having these problems. Motion sickness aside, (yea I'm getting that as well) the archwings are just so much slower now. I used to be able to turn on a dime and just zip around the map now I have to plan my turns ahead of time otherwise I'm gonna crash into a wall.

[hodagacz]

Something has to be done about lack of roll control, the sluggish new flight model, the inertia, and that camera. Why was it decided that Warframe really needed to be an accurate flight sim instead of Space Ninjas with magic jetpacks?

[BRad_Skirata]

Movement feels sluggish compared to pre-patch. Needs to be more responsive for quick movements.  Also the FOV is too small or the camera needs to be pulled away from the character (maybe add a slider specifically for archwing if it isn't the same as the FOV slider currently in the options.)

[Eathian]

I have two main concerns with the new Archwing controls. Firstly the FoV. Even when set to max FoV the frame is nauseatingly close and taking up too much screen space. Secondly I personally feel that the inability to manually perform an aileron roll to reorient myself is an over site.

[PigeonFish]

I'm gonna have to go with everyone else on the motion sickness thing. There's also zero point to rolling if it isn't controllable. It just makes it more disorienting, and harder to tell where the heck you are. The drift turning I could also do without. It just takes away from the maneuverability of the old system, and makes navigating Corpus trench stages an absolute nightmare.

An artificial horizon as part of our HUD is definitely needed as well if you're going to keep the roll feature.

The new targeting reticule is a nice, very much needed, improvement, but I would suggest possibly making the lines and dot of the reticule a bit thicker to make it easier to see. Perhaps allowing us to change the color.

Edited July 12, 2016 by PigeonFish

[(XBOX)Zoltan6201]

Who decided to change archwing flight?  Why?  This new system will drive even more players away from archwing missions. You need to pull a Steve and revert to the old system.

Do you even have real players testing anything before you release an update?  Seriously.  I guarantee that they would have told you how bad it is and that many people feel motion sickness from the new system.  Just because your game is labelled as a beta does not give you license to have players test it after it releases.

[Elythara]

I've tried it just now. I don't really mind the 360 rotation around an axis. what a DO mind is the goddamn banking/siderolling when mouselooking. I move my mouse in 2 dimensions, why does the camera rotate in three? I'm constantly disoriented and waiting for the camera to reset/autolevel. There is no keybind to banking, no way to control or even reset it. I'm sorry but this is simply dumb.

But to be honest, I don't know why the change was necesary in the first place. Before, the controls were tight, I used to be able to speed my way through corpus corridors and it felt really good when I didn't hit anything. Now, I don't even think it's possible, 'cause I can't fully control my camera or even mentally compensate for the involuntary banking if I don't perceive it until I stop and see the camera slowly reset after a moment. I mean, come on, what the hell is that.

But at least I didn't get sick. On the other hand, if "at least I didn't get sick" is a positive by itself, there is probably something really wrong here.

[-CM-Hekovashi]

It's bad, like REEEEEALY bad, and this come from person who have all aw stuff (outside of amesha), who really like aw and just don't play it coz there no actuall reason to do it.

So instead of a problems-rewards and how it have nothing to do with Warframe ( it's like a minigame that have no impact on real game) you fix da only one thing that works perfectly-movement system....sigh.

Revert all the changes, there no way that you gonna have this system works with current maps, it disorienting tenno for no reason, you always bump in to walls and such stuff.

It just bad, and this come from a person who REALLY LOVE AW (old one), who can play it without disgust and actually enjoy it. Now i don't, don't even wanna forma dat new aw primary, even tho it's really good, have zero plans of playing aw now, tnx for ruining aw as a gamemod DE.

[Vitagen]

The new Archwing has a lot of problems, but I overall like it better than the old system. I see a lot of people suggesting changes akin to Strike Suit Zero's mech-mode (never played Zone of the Enders), but I found SS0's mech-mode boring for the same reason as old Archwing: a static horizon. I didn't feel like a space-mech, I felt like a space-helicopter. What's the point of being in space if you're forced to stay upright? You're in space, there is no "upright!" I think being able to move in all six degrees-of-freedom is the right idea for a space-mech, so new Archwing is definitely on the right track (for me, at least).

But while I like the idea, the implementation has its share of issues. Some suggestions:

• Lose the automatic roll-correction. Whenever I become disoriented, this is usually the culprit. With the 6DoF movement, I choose and mentally orient to an "up" relative to my environment, so that "up" changes quite a lot. When the game decides to position me in an "up" other than mine, it's extremely disorienting. If resetting to "up" really needs to be a thing (and I do see a lot of people requesting a static horizon), maybe make it a maneuver instead (double-tap space or something).
• Fix the HUD. The waypoint marker on the mini-map is often misleading/useless with 6DoF. Some alternatives:
  • Add pitch and yaw indicators to the HUD with little waypoint markers on each. There could also be a "horizon" mark on the pitch indicator, for those who want a horizon to orient to.
  • Do what other space games do: chuck the marker on the screen where the waypoint actually is, putting it on the edge of the screen if it's outside the player's field of view.
• Give us separate Archwing control-bindings.
• Add roll controls. Even if it's just a modifier key for the left-right movement keys, something would be better than nothing.
• Up the space-friction a bit to make movement more precise.

I haven't experienced any motion sickness with the new system, and neither have my clan-mates (that I know of), so I can't offer any suggestions there.

[IEpicWolfI]

 I like the new flight system, a lot more than before. The visibility is a bit worse, since the wings tend to obscure most of the vision, and the cone of vision is a bit smaller too, but the free movement is awesome.

[Eienlanzer]

I am definitely saddened by the spaceship pursuit. I find it very difficult to target the shields, and turrets on the spacecraft. There is no clear identifier on what exactly we are supposed to shoot. Honestly, I used the Grattler, on a solo run, and beat it without really knowing exactly what I hit. I did not find any difficulty in targeting the engines however. I guess what I was hoping for was a large Grineer or Corpus cruiser that we would pursue (think of Starfox style boss fights). Honestly, the ship is just too small to be enjoyable.

 

Edited July 12, 2016 by Eienlanzer
Typo's - spelling

[Waspyeh]

Theres a way you can please both the people who love the current system and the people who hate it.

heres how,

Allow the system its currently in a 1st person experience/ like your right there in the action while the old movement method can be changed within game settings..

I do not like how the mini map doesn't show your altitude and how close you are near object. that should be revised and taken a look at.

also make sure you list all keybindings???? hahaha had to discover the pitch and roll. q and e Btw. which was quite common sense because i played space games before.

[-Ionized-]

I used to be able to make close to perfect turns with the old archwing system. Now i cant fly 100m without bumping into a wall. This makes the new Rush missions really frustrating to play when all you do is bump from one wall to the next every single time. The turning system is unresponsive and it feels like im drifting across space way too much. While maybe physics in real life dictate momentum should be kept into account when changing axis, this just doesnt translate into the game really well, making the gameplay a frustrating experience to say the least.

[CortiWins]

Before the new movement and the new rush mission type, getting stuck on architecture was just slightly annoying. The new movement makes it harder not to get stuck and the rush mode punishes it. The rush mission type is like a 3D racing game. As a racing game, it would not be considered a fun one. The map and navigation marks don't really fit the new movement.

Just like others, archwing combat reminds me of Zone of the Enders in a positive way. I hope the movement gets improved in the future.

[Firetempest]

Bad camera, stiff animation, trench run not designed for 6d in mind, no manual rolling clockwise/counterclockwise key bindings, janky and jerky auto correcting camera roll thats not under my power, close FOV.

I think a lot of sickness could be attributed to the game auto correcting and you don't need or want it to. When a 3ed party force is applying extra movements to your character you are not only unaccustomed to and have no option to counter with roll keys, that simulation sickness starts to kick in.

I could enjoy it if I could control it and it was predictable. Accounting for momentum is learned, and drifting around obstacles an art. Yet the camera keeps getting in the way. Add more camera options, add manual rolling. Don't be afraid of First person in archwing, its ok. you want it to be different than normal WF if you went this far already.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Firetempest

[taiiat]

oh, crap. i couldn't find this Thread until after i gave up and made a Post myself.
the categories for this stuff is... perhaps not the most ideal.

16 minutes ago, taiiat said:

overall, Archwing is so close to being incredible! movement that is actually intuitive with great maneuvers for dodging and 'looking cool', with a focus (in new Gamemodes) more towards larger singular objectives rather than moving down a bunch of trash (because ground Combat is already that, having the same in 'Space' makes it boring).

some things that keep it from achieving that:

•     there is no button to manually self right? doesn't seem to be one, there should be one. 'Reload' is unused in Archwing so there's an open button for sure. it should be quick, not super slow.
  • there should also be a 'horizon indicator', originating off of the 'default orientation' as the 'horizon'. so that way Players always know their rotation in context of the default.
    • having a Horizon indicator also helps those that are prone to motion sickness or confusion.
•     the Camera is much too close to your Character. the distance it was previously would be usable but it would be nice if it waas just a little bit further. or customizable, that's always ideal.
•     too much AoE Spam - constant Explosions isn't fair, or fun. trying to identify where the Explosions are coming from when they're 'constant' is quite difficult.
• Rolling in any direction doesn't do much, side is okay but forward/backward doesn't do anything. there's room here for better stuff.
•     i really, really, really want to be able to shoot while performing all of these new awesome maneuvers!
•     performing those maneuvers in Archwing also shouldn't make you holster and unholster your Weapons constanly. pls no.
• the Aiming Reticule is better.... but still kind've meh. the look of it is good, but it should be scaled up larger so that it doesn't 'block' as much view of directly in front of you where you're aiming your Guns.
• i'm sure this one is already known but the Corpus Trench Run Tiles aren't that well suited to the great movement we have now. i fully expect this already will be addressed in due time.
• we still can't Boost AND move up/down relative to self. this is awful, we should always be able to move in any direction when combining with other movement in Archwing.

Edited July 13, 2016 by taiiat

[m4xwellmurd3r]

16 hours ago, Zookes said:

In flight simulation games, the control stick is usually pitch and yaw, and the shoulder plungers would be roll. It's pretty intuitive.

I've never heard of that before. Ace Combat and any other flight games has pitch and roll on the stick, and yaw and throttle on the shoulders (though maybe you just got them mixed up by accident in your post)

[m4xwellmurd3r]

3 hours ago, WASPGOD said:

Theres a way you can please both the people who love the current system and the people who hate it.

heres how,

Allow the system its currently in a 1st person experience/ like your right there in the action while the old movement method can be changed within game settings..

I do not like how the mini map doesn't show your altitude and how close you are near object. that should be revised and taken a look at.

also make sure you list all keybindings???? hahaha had to discover the pitch and roll. q and e Btw. which was quite common sense because i played space games before.

That's news to me. I tried that. Q brings up my item menu, E is bound to melee quick attack.

[taiiat]

3 minutes ago, m4xwellmurd3r said:

I've never heard of that before.

i prefer that, personally. it feels more intuitive to my fingers.
i don't pay attention to which is 'more common', because i don't conform to default Controls, i edit them to what works for me.

[m4xwellmurd3r]

Q and E don't do anything for roll in this game. I have no idea what WASPGOD is talking about. There is NO keybinding currently for roll.

[PigeonFish]

4 minutes ago, taiiat said:

i prefer that, personally. it feels more intuitive to my fingers.
i don't pay attention to which is 'more common', because i don't conform to default Controls, i edit them to what works for me.

Problem is, the vast majority of PC players use a mouse and keyboard for Warframe. Considering mouse and keyboard is better for shooters while controllers are better for flight sims, and Warframe is a shooter first and a flight sim fourth or fifth more consideration needs to be given to keyboard controls.

Edited July 13, 2016 by PigeonFish

[Calory03]

I did over 20 times new KEPLER new misson. but still I didn't completed yet.

I dont know about Veteran. but It's unreasonably difficult for newbie.

[taiiat]

34 minutes ago, PigeonFish said:

more consideration needs to be given to keyboard controls.

default bindings is irrelevant, IMO. most people never change their Controls and then complain about the location of certain actions, granted - but 1996 called and it said Keybindings are cool.

all that matters if you ask me is what functions exist, not what you bind them to. people can change to whatever feels right for them.

36 minutes ago, m4xwellmurd3r said:

Q and E don't do anything for roll in this game. I have no idea what WASPGOD is talking about. There is NO keybinding currently for roll.

Archwing has a separate set of Keybindings now. customize those to whatever you please since it's completely separate from ground Combat controls.
Lunaro will have it's own in the future as well.

(i know that the functions in question don't exist, i just figured mentioning this would be useful)

Edited July 13, 2016 by taiiat

[PigeonFish]

1 minute ago, taiiat said:

default bindings is irrelevant, IMO. most people never change their Controls and then complain about the location of certain actions, granted - but 1996 called and it said Keybindings are cool.

all that matters if you ask me is what functions exist, not what you bind them to. people can change to whatever feels right for them.

The functions existing is important, sure, but they also have to work, otherwise there's not much point to them existing.

[RunningBeans]

So at first I was horrifed about the movement. I think people are still playing they way they did with the old archwing system using the wasd keys. However after playing I saw that holding the w key and making use of the freedom of the mouse was way easier and smoother. Still movement is hard to control because of that momentum and I instinctively use the a and d keys to stablize. This makes it worse. The spacebar thrust became less used because your mouse has to keep adjusting as you travel and if you boost in a tight area, you will crash into walls. Movement is wonderful in open areas like the grinner exterminate. Really fun to circle/orbit around rocks in space. Corpus is a nightmare.

The camera is zoomed into much, which makes moving in the 6 axis confusing. 

For these reasons rush game mode is difficult to traverse.

Pursuit is ok but the convoy has a tendancy to "orbit" space rocks.