Archwing Movement Overhaul Feedback [Megathread]

[NightmareT12]

My personal feedback, mostly on Archwing because I know some of the other things are getting touched upon when able (ie: Fissures and some minor Starmap issues like clarity -- although I'm pretty much okay with the map itself myself):

NOTE: I play with a controller, so... yeah. Keep it in mind when taking the feedback :P

Archwing camera and FoV: It's too close to the Warframe model now. Flying around with my Odonata Prime I was able to see the (empty) insides of my Archwing 8/10 times I moved the camera slightly. Basically I clip through the model. And I keep seeing it so close I can see the Archwing in lower resolution than expected -- because I'm too close to tyhe details. The FoV needs to be a tad larger too, but I guess this could be solved with its very own, separate from ground/regular play FoV, slider on the display menu. Medium to Far away targets are easy to hit, close targets are a mess for me (and when I melee, I have a hard time to see what's going on now).

Archwing movement, interaction (context): I have the same issue I had before: Precise movement. Warframe's ground controls are one of the most confortable I've ever played with, and Archwing seems to make me have a hard time. In space it's easy to go too far away or too close (I know better hitboxes are something else that would help here), specially with Hyperion Thursts on.
On open spaces it may have a pass (there's issues there, though, which I'll touch later) but on closed spaces it's too chaotic.

The other thing that becomes an issue, at least to me, is context actions -- mainly, reviving fallen players. I can't for the sake of my sanity get close enough to do so. I either get too far away from them or can't even trigger the context action even when I feel I should be prompted to. Maybe you guys want to do that for Archwing a bit more of a larger spherical eligible zone to revive someone.

Controls: I'll start on the non-controller specific request here: I know we're supposed to auto center somehow (I need to recheck Rebecca's explanation on Devstream) but I think we'd benefit greatly from a "center camera" button that repositions our Warframe in the correct position. Press once, recenter. I think binding for this could go to Crouch for PC and RS press on controllers.

Controller specific: Please, let us have a good binding specific menu for Archwing. I know Drew commented on the other Controller thread that it's something that had some numbers to happen, while not being a promise/confirmation, but I'd strongly consider it. Would make it 

--------------------------------

And I think those were my main points. Something more I'd like to say, is that playing the Jordas Golem mission I seemed really comfortable, but on the Corpus ship alerts or the Interception nodes I had issues described as a above.

Besides this, I feel we're going on the right track: I personally like more the reticle we have now and most of the improvements we've received. Hopefully you guys can take a look at some of this issues around the 19.0-19.2 or 3 timeframe and finally have Archwing basics solved -- only in need for more nodes and mission diversity :)

Edited July 16, 2016 by NightmareT12

[Caelward]

I had no problem with previous Archwing movement system. In the previous system I found flying around to be FUN. It was snappy and quick. I didn't care how realistic it was. I enjoyed it.

Now it just drags, It flips me around and disorients me. I can't tell where I'm going, partly because the camera is buried in my warframe, partly because the rest of me is buried in the wall. I can't control my frame well, and I drift and smash into obstacles in enclosed areas and lock track of direction in large areas.

The only change I've liked so far is the new targeting reticle. I'm happy to have that opened up so I can aim and lead shots more effectively. Too bad I'm too busy careening though space to actually aim at things.

The only fundamental problem I had with Archwing before was a lack of content and a noticable seperation of content between Archwing and regular mode. There was no reason for archwing beyond the occasional boss level and extra MR. Otherwise leveling archwing had no bearing on regular content, as such, no reason to play it.

 

Edited July 16, 2016 by Caelward

[YNinY]

I only want to say WTF .... it s nerly impossible to controle the archwing now ... what was in your mind???

Did you try it with mouse and keyboard??

The update is realy nice, but the archwingcontrol ....... ist now soooo BAD ...

Pls let uns change the up command! why is up and boost on the same key??

If you build a Map for Archwing missions with little small tunels, the Archwing must be controlable not that  (sorry) BULLS#&$... 

 

sorry for my BAD englisch 

PLS HELP US TO CONTROL THE ARCHWING

 

 

[o-gibre]

I don't think the current movement is bad per se. It's just disconected with the level design, if you want to keep the current movement how it is now, you have to redesign the whole thing to play and feel more like a dogfight simulator, with big, expansive levels. But for that you have to remake the movement of enemies, and, well, just about everything regarding combat and orientation. If you want to keep the level and enemy design the way it is, and not keep pissing people off forever, movement has to be changed again, or set back to how it was.

 

[BlackCoMerc]

Got to admit it: New Archwing is really good. 

I know its not a popular opinion. I know. But I like it.

Could it be better? Sure. We still need real roll control. And completely separate controls for the two modes. And the auto roll needs to go, as it can be sickening to see it when sitting still. 

But the flight mode, free aim and ability to fire while flying at full speed are very nice additions. As is the new aiming reticle, which is much easier to see and use. 

So yeah...could be improved, and the auto roll needs to go, but all in all the new Archwing mode is pretty fantastic.

[Eating_Paste]

I ran through (crashed into every wall) an archwing mission last night, and by the end I felt completely sick. I was looking forward to finishing up my Elytron, as well as the new Amesha, but my stomach wont let me play archwing anymore. The minimap is awful, and the auto roll  off putting and disorienting. I cant play it anymore.

Edited August 6, 2016 by Ninothing

[MihariofMabinogi]

What really confuses me is that Uranus's archwing missions have the old camera and old controls, so me and the bf thought that they had actually fixed the dumb thing. Then we did an oxium alert on Uranus and proceeded to be in space with the new controls, and the motion sickness was so bad it made both of us throw up. Ten hotfixes since this update went live and they still haven't fixed the one thing many players have reported on making them physically ill.

 

I love when game devs give their players false hopes :^)

Edited July 17, 2016 by MihariofMabinogi

[rudman88]

If the camera distance same like normal warframe game will be fine. But this is too close.

Is like FPS and ocne it go melee wowzz >.<

straight ahead sickenning

[Duduminador]

Not a bug but something you guys might want to look into.

So, I was playing Caelus, Itzal Being a fast Archwing had Hyperion Thrusters on, By the end of the second round of interceptions I was thrusting my way into one of the towers.

Turns out during the mission progression screen I was stuck thrusting in a single direction for as long as the screen's countdown was on. Passed by the tower pretty fast... When the screen came off and controls were unlocked I was already pretty far away, got the warning message from Lotus saying I was about to be extracted. Dunno why but the game wouldn't let me Teleport back either through Itzal's warp ability and trying to thrust my way back into the mission's range wasn't fast enough to cancel the extraction.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Duduminador

[Kaotyke]

5 hours ago, MihariofMabinogi said:

What really confuses me is that Uranus's archwing missions have the old camera and old controls, so me and the bf thought that they had actually fixed the dumb thing. Then we did an oxium alert on Uranus and proceeded to be in space with the new controls, and the motion sickness was so bad it made both of us throw up. Ten hotfixes since this update went live and they still haven't fixed the one thing many players have reported on making them physically ill.

 

I love when game devs give their players false hopes :^)

 

Quote

 

Archwing Overhaul!

• Archwing has been upgraded to a full six degrees of freedom! Now, you’ll be able to pilot your Archwing like a true flight simulator with full 360 degree yaws and pitches. (Note: submersible missions will still use the old controls)

 

• Dont you just love when people dont read things and just throw accusations around? :^)

[nerfinator6]

I've got 2 complaints, which I think are completely justified.

The first one is not being able to reset the camera to it's original position, in a rush mission, I can't even find out where to go, because every corner i go around screws up my view and my minimap to the point where I have to stop moving completely to figure out which way is up, and then work out where to go next.

The second is about rush again, I get that it is meant to have you flying around really fast trying to destroy a few ships, but the stasis mines, the camera, the walls, the timer, EVERYTHING is against you, you cannot complete it unless you know the map back to front, upside down, which just really f**ks the entire experience for me.

[BlackCoMerc]

I've been enjoying the new Archwing (in space; I LOATHE Sharkwing completely, and even more so now that it depends on a different movement system than the in space mode; too confusing, and poison blooms simply are not fun). 

However, despite how much I am enjoying it, there are some GLARING issues with Archwing right now:

-Separate Control Binds: NOT Working. Changing button configuration for Archwing still affects controls for the main game and vice versa. We need truly separate control bindings for each mode. And a button that specifically states it is roll control. Magically knowing we need to use Hold to Crouch (which no right minded person would ever rely on) does not work. Label the controls, and make them entirely separate from the main game.

-No More Auto Roll: That "corrective" roll you force on players when they hover in place...STOP IT. Its making people sick. 

-Real Radar: Look at the radar for Elite Dangerous. Then...just do that. Up, down, behind, in front...these are not uniform positions in space. Everything on my radar should be relative to my own position at all times, not to some imaginary up and down you have to barf roll me to achieve. 

-Better Weapons: Right now, there Fluctus, and there's...everything in their below that. Seriously. Weapons need a hard look. If you're struggling at Archwing, and its not control related, just buy a Fluctus and stop struggling. That pretty much fixes it.

[JHarlequin]

 I bounced off everything.  Got turned around twice.  Slid into everything.  Couldn't shoot for crap.  Also felt like I moved slower then a hobbled Rhino.

 One of the big things that bugs me and possibly other players quite a lot is when a game is played for them or when a game has no control.  I feel like I have no control in archwing.

 I would say you should make sure to add a level control button, but the drawbacks are that it is one more button for players to use as well as many players would pretty much mash that button constantly.  The truth of the issue is that six degrees of freedom is great when you can fly anywhere, but archwing has invisible boundaries and a singular target to go after.  Everything is straight forward, flying everywhere is actually completely unnecessary because there is only one place you need to go.  (Technically more in a few modes, but there is still no reason to reorient to get there)

 The movement took a major step backwards.  We had original archwing where everyone bounced off everything, and we had to discuss for months how it really sucked for control because we bounced off everything.  Then you adjusted it so that we would not bounce as much and the speeds were controllable and turning worked well.  Then you make this change and suddenly turning doesn't work well, and we slide everywhere and again bounce off everything.  Simply put, some of your features of full freedom of flight just reverted changes you put in to make sure people could control themselves in archwing.  Why is yet another change brought by de reverting things needed for player control.

 So a fix for some of the overly complicated movement is a braking button.  But just like a button for controlling rotation, people would be pushing the brake almost all the time so that they can make a turn that they actually want to make.

 As feedback goes, your six degrees of freedom does work.  Your physics seem to be very approachable and understandable for people.  It almost feels right in the way of flight and space.  But the archwing modes don't need full freedom.  It's a simple map. A beginning. An end.  An objective in the middle roughly.  We need up down, left right, and forward and back.  We really don't need full control.  If you change up, and really broaden what can be done in space, then you would have a totally different game and could ship Archwing on it's own.  Until then, you probably shouldn't shoehorn it into Warframe where it isn't fitting.

 No matter how much you might believe players will adapt, I feel that it isn't just adapting that will help, it's putting in controls that match the mission.

Edited July 18, 2016 by JHarlequin

[Brasten]

So in regards to things be too close. This is what the camera looks like when its bugged and gets even closer.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Which is very different from the normal "this is too close" camera that is currently in the game. Compare to the other examples of clipping with the "normal" camera distance.

 

[Ax0r]

I like the new system however that auto-rotation when you stop is something that have been making not only me but several other people sick. It would be nice if the calibration could be done manually through some kind of key(combo) instead of the game doing it automatically.

[Therys]

Doing a backflip in Archwing causes the camera to spin around too.

[Kaotyke]

2 hours ago, Therys said:

Doing a backflip in Archwing causes the camera to spin around too.

I believe this is intentional: You backflip, you are making a 180º

It reminded me of Drakengard 2, when I would do that with Legna to turn back around quickly.

[Athanaric]

It's been nearly two weeks and you guys still haven't fixed this. Why you people feel completely alright releasing an overhaul missing basic functionality is beyond me.

I need roll bindings. They are not there. Rectify it.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Athanaric

[TaylorsContraction]

I made a separate thread not realizing this existed so here goes.

There is an INPUT DELAY problem that causes wrong manuvers to be carried out. I will try to explain what I mean by this.

Normally you bost by holding shift and use afterburners by holding space while shifting. Space is also used to increase / decrease altitude. The problems arise in the following manner.

 

I can be holding shift to boost, but then need to adjust my altitude, I will let go of shift and press spacebar to gain altitude but instead because of some delay in recognizing that I already let go of shift, it will boost instead. This is VERY VERY bad, because I just tried to go over an obstruction and instead I just boosted right into it.

 

This problem works in reverse too! If I press shift to boost and then press space right after the game hasn't recognized that I am boosting yet and instead of turning on the afterburners which is something I'd want to do if I know I have a clear path it would instead make me gain altitude grrr, completely taking me off course.

 

These same movement input delay plague the entire system, I will perform dodge rolls (something I NEVER WANT TO PERFORM) accidentally etc...

 

Additionally while going forward and left/right is very quick in terms of speed, it is the complete opposite when using space to rise and control to descend. Rise / descend speeds are creepingly slow and need to be increased. There is also further a delay before these actions occur which exasperates this issue. For example while moving around I need to make a short altitude adjustment relative to some obstruction, but there is a 1 second delay before I even BEGIN to make my adjustment and as a result I've already crashed into whatever it was I wanted to avoid.

 

Bottom line, the controls are completely unresponsive and as a result we have to compensate a lot for this and while yeah we can and have adjusted, I'd much prefer a responsive movement set than the feeling like I'm a megaton submarine. Right now the intertia is extremely high for seemingly a warframe that has negligeable mass, and just its archwing.

[Zoig]

yeah im gonna say it, even if we do have proper rolling controls sorta, we still have auto leveling as a non option when it should be, no dedicated roll button, a shoddy camera, and no options for separate bindings for archwing. the worst part is all of those things are pretty closely related and would belong in a archwing options menu.

the way archwing is built right now its more like a proper separate thing from warframe, so it needs properly separated controls. ya cant control a space fighter with controls meant for on foot combat, it doesn't work usually. Plus this idea only emphasizes the biggest issues with archwing, which is a lack of reward transferrence, things that i get in archwing should have some use for a warframe, and vice versa.otherwise we end up right back where we stared before this, with people playing it for a little when its fixed followed up with everyone moving on from it to go back to playing on foot because there is barely any archwing content to play anyways.

[Feuershark]

I just felt space-sick rushing through a corpus ship. And I bumped everywhere.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Feuershark

[Kaotyke]

21 minutes ago, Feuershark said:

I just felt space-sick rushing through a corpus ship. And I bumped everywhere.

I found a... band aid... yeah, it IS a band aid at this point: NEVER use Boost, Sprint if you must, but NEVER Boost.

Also: no Hyperion Thrusters

Edited July 18, 2016 by Venom-Snake

[Feuershark]

3 minutes ago, Venom-Snake said:

I found a... band aid... yeah, it IS a band aid at this point: NEVER use Boost, Sprint if you must, but NEVER Boost.

Also: no Hyperion Thrusters

I don't think I have Hyperion thrusters anymore (this mod is useless) but I used to rush through Corpus ship with the boost, it felt so amazing ... Now I just go BLOARGH

But even without the boost the maneurvability is just horrible compared to before

Edited July 18, 2016 by Feuershark

[Supernoobian]

I find the new FoV, combined with the new movement system, to be literally nauseating. I don't mean "I think it's bad," I literally mean that, because of motion sickness issues (never a problem with the old system), I literally become sick when playing archwing missions, and I have seen this complaint echoed around a few places. 

When doing an archwing alert (Mobile Defense, Grineer, on a rather open tileset), I had to excuse myself from the group after completing it to go puke a bit. (Fortunately, I was playing with friends willing to wait for me to come back afterwards). Even people in the group without motion sickness felt uncomfortable after the mission.

Long story short: This change to archwing, which was intended to increase the number of people playing archwing missions, just seems to be highly successful in driving people away. I'm pretty surprised the DE has come out and said that archwing is working as intended, and they have no interest in changing the FoV. See the first post on the 15th page.

So, I guess nausea is a feature, not a bug?

[t045ter]

Just had exactly the same thing happen to me sprinting to get a mod just before the end of mission timer, when the timer appears the arch wing carried on flying causing me to be out of bounds when restarting the second wave. I was also forced to extract as a mission fail. 

I am sure this is a bug before and was previously fixed.