Archwing Movement Overhaul Feedback [Megathread]

[AzureTerra]

I dont mind the new Movement system but the camera is way to close to the Warframe/wing and the map need to fixed to not go spastic when your upside down.

This is such a big change to drop into an otherwise functioning (if flawed) system that it drives home further the fact that there needs to be a test server or the like since the devs have little idea of what large changes actually are going to do till it hits the live game and breaks badly.

Edited July 20, 2016 by AzureTerra

[DaGhostDS]

On 2016-07-19 at 10:56 AM, Venom-Snake said:

 

The thing is: its as fast as it was before, the slow part comes from the turning speed, which feels floaty and slow compared to the 90º turns we could make before.

The FOV and the turning speed need to be increased.

Sorry but it's not, i could fly in between points on Caelus in less than 10 seconds, now it take twice as much, making Hyperion Thruster the most needed mod in Archwing but sadly it doesn't exist as drop, because someone decided "hey let's make something drop off of something can only be seen once or twice per game at 0.1% drop!"

Plus there is the whole Mastery Rank 20 test which cant be done at that speed, dont miss one ring, still wont make it with an Itzal.

[SpadaNgDios]

Firstly, I'm glad they have implemented 6 degrees of Freedom for Archwing, as well as the ability to shoot and sprint at the same time. This truly gives it a proper space flight feel to this game mode.
However it is not working the same way they first previewed it on the DevStream.
On the DevStream, the reticule moved around the screen just like most space shooters, instead it is fixed to the center of the screen. I hope they add this feature in the near future.

Other changes I wish to see - 

:-SEPERATE FOV OPTIONS FOR ARCHWING-:
Archwing should provide independant Field Of View options from the Normal game, and within it, there should be a separate slider option for normal FOV and zoomed FOV, for complete customizability.
I know there are some players who like to have the camera close, but there are others like myself who prefer to have it further back maximising the view of my surroundings.
The chosen FOV should also stay and not move back and forth if you are moving, sprinting, or attacking with your gun and melee weapon, or at least move slightly to give the illusion of speeding up. The way it currently is now makes moving through tight areas very difficult and many players have expressed their issues with this already.

:-THE ABILITY TO ROLL-:
Currently, moving your mouse horizontally changes the Yaw, but so does the A and D key on the keyboard. They should have the ability to roll using the A andD key when Sprinting, but revert to Strafing when not holding down Sprint. I believe this would translate as moving the Left Thumbstick left to right on a controller. This would allow you to correct your orientation manually, which is beneficial in tight Corpus Tile set maps, as well as dodge any incoming fire. 'Cause we want to "Try spinning. That's a good trick!"

:-QUICK BRAKES-:
There would also be better control if the Archwing slowed down drastically or come to a stop when engaged in a sprint. Similar to when the Itzal Archwing uses Penumbra whilst moving, it stops on the spot. I suggest having this feature on the Aim button(Right Mouse Button for PC), If the player hits it whilst in a sprint or boost, it would act kind of like Air Brakes, and then continue with the sprint when they let go of the button if they are still moving forward and holing down the sprint button(SHIFT key). This would allow precise movement for Corpus Tile sets and the ability to quickly speed up once again without being too complicated in the heat of battle or complicated Trench Runs. I know when Aiming in Archwing or the Back button(S key on PC) does slow down your speed just a tad, but not enough to be agile and precise, which is what I assume a true Space Ninja would be like when traversing in space.

:-WALL HOP-:
Parkour in Space
The Warframe should wall hop with the Archwing(Like in the normal game) when they get too close along the wall whilst Sprinting; which would make Archwing totally Space Ninja. The only time whey would bump and have the momentary stun is when they are using Turbo(Space Bar) and collide with an object, or if they flight straight into it. This would allow the smooth movements of Parkour 2.0 from the normal game to be implemented in Archwing as well as looking badass.

:-FASTER ORIENTATION CORRECTION-:
I understand Archwing is in space and there is no true Up or Down. However tilesets such as the Corpus Trench Run ships do have a fixed up and down.
The Archwing should constantly re-orient itself to the 3D maps X axis to allow better navigation through a close quarter tile, and do it in a quicker fashion.  The Archwing should also have the ability to correct it's orientation quickly when using a key or button, I suggest the USE or INTERACT key, since it is hardly used in this game mode(except when reviving a fallen ally).

And Finally, please address the floatyness of the movement. It is probably a combination of things such as the reticule being in the center and momentum, but it is too much and there isn't really anything currently useful to counter it. The suggestions I proposed such as Quick Brakes and a moving reticule should help mitigate that.

If you want to experience a great example of a high speed flight game with very good trench run mechanics, check out Strike Vector, its F2P, or just look at the PC gameplays on YouTube. Strike Vector ships have the ability to move accurately at high speeds, even between the tightest gaps whilst engaged in combat. Here is a LINK  of a Strike Vector battle that covers what I am talking about. The movements are very precise even when flying and battling in areas tighter than any current Archwing map.
This is the kind of thing I am hoping for Archwing.

Edited July 21, 2016 by SpadaNgDios
the Awesome Tenno

[SpadaNgDios]

9 minutes ago, DaGhostDS said:

Plus there is the whole Mastery Rank 20 test which cant be done at that speed, dont miss one ring, still wont make it with an Itzal.

I actually made the same mistake with the MR20 test (Took me around 6 goes to realise). You don't actually have to go through every ring. They are just there to provide more time. You just need to get to the end platform as fast as possible.

[TaylorsContraction]

Just going to add this here, I came across two new sets of moves by accident I didn't even know existed. Archwing controls are a trial and error, or lady luck kind of thing as there isn't a manual.

hold rise (space) or descend (control) and tap boost (shift) to do a quick rise or quick descend. These can be handy when handling jordas' spore balls.

 

[WindKitsune]

So happy this exists. Came here to complain about the new archwing movements and like many other people here, I say it has huge issues.

Already said: Camera zoomed in too much, can't see anything, disorientation and motion sickness.

If you're going to keep that new movement, at least, at the very least, zoom the camera out and PLEASE keep it from swiveling! I'm a person who already has problems with disorientation and this made me want to avoid archwing completely.

Edited July 21, 2016 by WindKitsune

[inkwhiz]

I like that i can now rotate the camera properly and not get stuck look up or down which is more realistic and some thing i have wanted for ages so thank you very much for that.

one thing that i find not just odd however but physically impossible, is that regardless of which way the warframe itself is facing during an arch-wing mission (which at the moment is the same way that ranged weapons are pointing), the projectiles fired by these ranged weapon are always flying dead ahead, when each projectile should going the same way the guns are pointing when the weapon is fired.

I really think given the nature of this game that for believable space combat it is crucial that the direction the warframe faces be to locked to the camera, at the very least when firing weapons.

the current movement system is great for flying and swinging a melee weapon but that is only when guaranteed one or two hit kills any thing more that and your a sitting duck when facing waves of enemies.

Having heard mention of (eventually) exploring beyond the solar system, I can't help but wonder if their is a possibility of deep space battles being fought in the Liset, that way archwing mission can take place in areas the liset wont fit into.

Edited July 21, 2016 by inkwhiz
grammatical, left a word out, sorry

[felixsylvaris]

AW feels better. But it could be ralated with better xp, more mods drop, and being able to build some other weapons.

Movment seems ok, it seems to have some dead weight or is it pendulum in starbase trench tileset. Managable.

There is a problem if i fight in melee camera i weird and generally shows view from inside target.Camera in melee fight is too close.

Edited July 21, 2016 by felixsylvaris

[DaGhostDS]

13 hours ago, SpadaNgDios said:

I actually made the same mistake with the MR20 test (Took me around 6 goes to realise). You don't actually have to go through every ring. They are just there to provide more time. You just need to get to the end platform as fast as possible.

Post a video of you doing it post-patch without an hyperion thruster mod, im really curious to see anyone complete that one.

After redoing a practice, you can barely do it if you dont miss a ring with an Itzal now imagine if someone doesn't have access to that one yet? (added to the increase in mats cost bug but to that was acknowledged around hotfix 4)

Edited July 21, 2016 by DaGhostDS

[SpadaNgDios]

1 hour ago, DaGhostDS said:

Post a video of you doing it post-patch without an hyperion thruster mod, im really curious to see anyone complete that one.

After redoing a practice, you can barely do it if you dont miss a ring with an Itzal now imagine if someone doesn't have access to that one yet? (added to the increase in mats cost bug but to that was acknowledged around hotfix 4)

Here you go. I used the original Odonata and No Hyperion Thrusters as requested.
Just move up to the first ring to get a head start and fly straight with your Boost on(Space Bar). You should be able to get a couple of rings on the way. I'm sure it would be much easier with the Itzal but it is possible without it.

 

Edited July 21, 2016 by SpadaNgDios

[Morblodplez]

ELYTRON: just tried it today since patch. When hovering, the left wing is in the sight. I'm literally shooting at the red triangles coming at me. It's so bulky it'll have to drop down more on hover

[Kaotyke]

22 minutes ago, SpadaNgDios said:

Here you go. I used the original Odonata and No Hyperion Thrusters as requested.
Just move up to the first ring to get a head start and fly straight with your Boost on(Space Bar). You should be able to get a couple of rings on the way. I'm sure it would be much easier with the Itzal but it is possible without it.

 

"The fastest path from A to B is a straight line" ~ Florence, my Math teacher of Highschool.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Venom-Snake

[Brasten]

13 hours ago, SpadaNgDios said:

:-WALL HOP-:
Parkour in Space
The Warframe should wall hop with the Archwing(Like in the normal game) when they get too close along the wall whilst Sprinting; which would make Archwing totally Space Ninja. The only time whey would bump and have the momentary stun is when they are using Turbo(Space Bar) and collide with an object, or if they flight straight into it. This would allow the smooth movements of Parkour 2.0 from the normal game to be implemented in Archwing as well as looking badass.

This is an interesting point, and one that leads past "Flight Sim Space Controls" and into Warframe specific design options. And it goes back to a much earlier point that Archwing are "Jetpacks", not space ships, and can do things you wouldn't expect from a ridged body air/space vehicle.

Let's take a moment an look at various in-universe aspects that also come into play. Mainly gravity control and manipulation. Even the Grineer have artificial gravity in their ships and habitats. It's established technology. Warframes themselves have limited artificial gravity systems we call "Advanced Movement" (Aim Glide, Wall Latch, Bullet Jump), which can generate close to 9.8 m/s^2 of acceleration, to counter act gravity on Aim Glides. More if you count Bullet Jumps (off a single jump). Granted Warframes have a limited capacitor, that takes a few seconds to recharge. 

There is no reason to assume Archwings are lacking this system. It's almost required to swinging melee weapons in space.

So what are the acceleration characteristics of Archwings? 

A non-Hyperion Thruster Amesha has a capped Velocity (not acceleration) of about 150 m/s, while boosting. It takes roughly 1.5 seconds to break (2 for totally full stop) without reverse thrust, giving it a deceleration of 100 m/s^2 . This is done without moving the the Wing Thursters into place to slow the Archwing (animation issue?), which gives the Amesha a non-thruster acceleration of 100 m/s^2. If you hold down Back (S key) this time gets cut to about 0.5 to 0.75 seconds, call it 300 m/s^2 with thruster assist.

A guesstimate of the linear velocity of the Roll rotation (thank you  @TaylorsContraction for pointing out that the hot keys are Crouch + A or D) is likely close to 3.5 to 4 m/s. ~2.5 seconds for a full revolution.

A Warframe can take an impact of at least 53 m/s (human skydiver terminal velocity) with no damage, likely more.

Now a big problem is it takes 1.5 to 2 seconds to stop regardless of boosting, spiriting, or just from holding down a direction (like W). For people chomping at the bit of "realism" this is inconstant as an Archwing has a demonstrated non-thurster based omni-directional max acceleration of 100 m/s^2 (unless DE wants to animate the Wings swinging into position to kill momentum). If you hold and let go of any direction button, you should move and stop almost instantly. We also shouldn't have to hold S to break faster (which causes this funny butt wiggle animation, instead of just bring the wings forward), which also causes issues in starting to send us backward if we hold it for too long.

Which is part of the problem of Archwing 2.0 not having actual Flight Sim style controls, and being a nasty hybrid of a Hack'n'Slash and Flight Sim without being either.

At low velocities Archwing's should be flying like momentum doesn't matter. These are Far Future Space Jet Packs, coming from an era that clearly has artificial gravity technology. They can easily accelerate and decelerate at non-boosting velocities to move in ways that look like humming bird does in air. Even at their capped "safe" boosting velocity they're stay within a very quick deceleration point.

Also on the topic of swinging Wings around. Without some kind of omni-directional acceleration (be it tiny thrusters or gravity manipulation) just moving those Wing thursters around should be causing the Archwing to spin all over the place as its angular moment changes with the position of the mass.  Throw in the over large guns (like Fluctus), and melee weapons, and the Archwing should have almost no control over its orientation while shifting those around. Unless there is non-Wing thruster acceleration with enough force to counter balance all the random limb movements the Warframe itself is making.

It's things like this that make me continue to advocate for a Two Mode system. Archwing 1.0 with a toggle to (a more refined) Archwing 2.0 movement. Archwing 1.0 is "Safe" velocities flying like a UFO, where momentum is told to take a back seat to Far Future Gravity powers. Archwing 2.0 is "Unsafe" velocities while playing at being an X-wing. Hack'n'Slash mode toggle over to Flight Sim mode. 

[DaGhostDS]

6 hours ago, SpadaNgDios said:

 fly straight with your Boost on(Space Bar).

 

See that's the part i was missing i guess that was new with the patch, "Move Up" should be changed to include the mention of boosters, because at the current time it's really confusing, same for the rotate button which is just "move down".

I'm just used to just pressing my sprint button and attaining max speed.

[Ronyn]

The additional inertia is bad one very front.

[AhkNemet]

I know I probably wont contribute anything new to the thread, but I think if people don't stay anything, then it wont be considered a problem "only affects a few players" and likely ignored.

- Nausea.. my whole clan is complaining about it, me included and I've tried really hard to avoid it. The constant twitch corrections of the axis are causing these I believe, because our "fixed" point of reference, which is usually middle distance, is constantly moving on us. I can't stand playing for more than one mission at a time and then I have to log out and do something else until it passes. Contributing to this is how much of the archwing you can see while slowly moving, and the sound of it being only in one ear.

- Loot.. easily spent 15 minutes trying to control my wings and the map long enough to pick up a mod.. why? Because the map can't realistically tell you where you should be to collect items.. the moment I got into the right place, I was apparently on the wrong angle, going the wrong way. Why do we even have drops in archwing? It doesn't seem like a mode that lends itself to such things. I've seen items flying off into space at high velocity never to be seen again!
It also encourages more melee use and less gunplay to ensure you actually pick up things (or using Itzal only for that blackhole thing it does), cos shooting them means you have a lot of ground to cover to try and find the drops.. if you lose your bearing (even in the old system) it's never going to be found.

- I do like the new crosshairs though, its much easier to aim, and I manage to hit what I shoot at, most of the time now.

- FOV.. lots of complaints about this, the reduced vision is also contributing to the nausea. Not only that, but if you equip a scanner to codex up on the new enemies (or heck, even the old ones) your archwing covers almost the entire screen.

- Lastly, missions feel slow, cos especially in trench runs, you have to use burst thrusters to maneuver rather than sprint anywhere.. it feels like doing repairs on one of the space shuttles where you don't want to go too fast or too hard in case you are left adrift in space.

 

 

[gingetsuryuu]

Few quick notes:

• Nausea: This is new for me, I've never felt nausea playing a game before, but I def get the feels whenever things try and right themselves.
• Boost and up is not the same: And I have often fumbled the keys to get boost but instead just flew into the roof (or floor, or walls with the new degree, lol)
• I have started hating doorframes. The hard stop if I glance a wall tends to break the experience, maybe just a bounce effect? Or automatically dodge if it is close enough?
• Roll would be nice as a button: But that's just coz I play a ton of space sims.
• As a side suggestion: Corpus ships in undamaged sections have an up, maybe keep the old system there and the new one in the "damaged" sections? It may help navigation

[FritzdaCat]

The problem is the camera,is too much close and when you play a mission like intercpetion you don't undestand what are you doing.

If DE want push archwing ,they need to do some kind of mission and drop for it.

[Guest GorgonTheHeroine]

1. With the unforgiving, unruly new archwing movements, Corpus ships are a nightmare. Taking Phobos as an example, I spent most of my time crashing into everything and becoming stuck soundly into objects.  

2. Whatever the reason, I now experience motion sickness. Open space is not too bad. It's within confined areas.

3. I disagree with the comments made on the previous movement system. You moved as you would in space.

Edited July 22, 2016 by DownTheSpine

[NightmareT12]

I'm surprised no one's mentioning Steve's comment from last night's Prime Time, where he states they'll be changing the camera so it's closer to the old one and probably tweak some more stuff.

Just wanted to leave the note on this. At around the 14-15 min mark:

 

[Kaotyke]

10 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

I'm surprised no one's mentioning Steve's comment from last night's Prime Time, where he states they'll be changing the camera so it's closer to the old one and probably tweak some more stuff.

Just wanted to leave the note on this. At around the 14-15 min mark:

 

Well, everyone watches Prime Time (TFS Plays Pokemon Soul Silver Nuzlock comes first), but now that you pointed it out we will pipe down about it and now focus in the inertia in Corpus map and being able to shot targets behind us when sprinting twards the camera or when the gun is pointing anywhere except where your crosshair is.

So, thank you for showing us that one of the issues is going to be fixed.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Venom-Snake

[Brasten]

Excellent, glad the feedback got escalated all the way up. The camera & FoV really is a usability issue, regardless of any wrangling over control setups or other more mechanical "play issues" like momentum. 

3 hours ago, NightmareT12 said:

I'm surprised no one's mentioning Steve's comment from last night's Prime Time, where he states they'll be changing the camera so it's closer to the old one and probably tweak some more stuff.

Just wanted to leave the note on this. At around the 14-15 min mark:

Spoiler

 

 

(moved video into an Spoiler block)

3 hours ago, Venom-Snake said:

now that you pointed it out we will pipe down about it and now focus in the inertia in Corpus map

And we can start with relative breaking speeds I think. People are free to double check me, but going over a self recorded video it takes 1.5 seconds to 'stop' regardless of movement type (sprint, boost, basic)... 2 seconds if you're waiting for absolute 100% momentum kill and animation return to idle.

Spoiler

 

(Yes roll works with Crouch + A or D, for the momment. Still need fully bind-able controls for Archwing. It is fairly fast and if you just spin its likely going to make you even more ill. I suggest holding crouch and tap A or D until you're in the right orientation.)

I've even started playing chicken with asteroids trying to practice breaking and slowing by holding S to break... and it isn't going so well. It still takes 1.5 seconds regardless of what maneuvers I'm trying, including backwards (S key) breaking. It's almost better to just let go of all controls because anything else you do may cause you to go skew off at an angle and ram into a wall anyways.

Spoiler

And then there is useless butt wiggle (by hold backward "S" ), which is completely visual and really does nothing to stop you faster.

Spoiler

Stopping from a full Boost needs a good 100 meters to slow down to a "safe" speed where you don't smash into the surface and bounce, even if you're still moving a bit and not fully stopped. And you cover that in just about a second, which means you need to have some of the best twitch reflex response in gaming, and a very good judge of distance in this mode. Which in the Corpus Trench Run Tileset this becomes a noticeable issue as one inadvertently slides into walls and projections.

[EnderDDT]

Dear DE, You are not creators of a true flight simulator and even if you were, people did not come here to play a flight simulator. The more Archwing tries to become something drastically different from the rest of the game, the more unpopular it will be with fans of the normal game. Furthermore the controls are not designed for the needs of a flight simulator and, even if they were, that would require forcing players to learn an entirely new set of controls. If you want Archwing to be popular than play to your strengths shown with the rest of the game, don't throw out the good for something unproven. More on that later.

-----------------------------------------

So I'm an old Descent and Descent II player and have no problem with normal vertigo, so understand the gravity of what I'm about to say: The new Archwing controls make me physically sick. The multiple axis of unintended movement from the drift while I'm turning/boosting while the (insert swear word of your choice) auto righting starts spinning you around is just way too much. The auto righting system has no place in this game. No, up and down in space is not realistic, but neither are Emo Cyborg Space Ninja with Psyonic Elemental powers. What is important is not realism but fun, and this is just not fun.

So I used to rush through certain parts of the Archwing missions. I had fun boosting through narrow passageways and navigating the tight corridors at ludicrous speeds. The drift mechanic changed that. Drift may be realistic, but it runs directly contrary to tight controls which is part of the basis of the "ninja" draw of this game. If anything drift should have been lessened, not increased. Boosting is now actively dangerous in the vast majority of circumstances, which just should not be. I've had to switch back and forth from toggle run to press run to even try to make it work, which just should not be required.

Aiming while "running" (not boosting) in Archwing is botched. Yes, yes; "realism". Please remember that I'm playing "cyborg space ninjas" (also known as "Warframe"), strict adherence to reality is not a goal this game should be shooting for. If I want to shoot while moving fast, than that should be encouraged. That is what makes the game fun, and this game mode is definitely not the kind of thing I came here to play.

The map is borderline useless now. It had been sometimes helpful, but all that disappeared with the auto-righting feture. Is up above you and is down below you? Almost certainly not, so trying to find things by the map is futile. Get rid of the auto righting and the map will instantly become somewhat helpful again.

Not something that has been changed, but very much worth mentioning. Archwings need a bit of a "gravity well" to pull in items when they move past or near them. The degree of precision necessary to pick up items is just unsuited for the fast paced gameplay, especially when you add in the extra space of Archwing.

The view change has very much hurt the precision of Archwing. I don't know why it was changed, it doesn't make anything better, all it does is block out your viewpoint from seeing more of what is going on in the spread out battlefield.

I was very much excited for the "Rush" gamemode. I would often do that exact thing myself in normal missions and would have fun leaving my friends far behind me as I took out enemies and reached the end with full minutes to spare. Unfortunately drift increases were added at the same time as the game mode was introduced. Rushing through NORMAL missions is now no longer fun, and I never felt any desire to retry the "Rush" game mode after my first attempt because it was just that bad.

In Pursuit, if that's the one where you are chasing after the giant craft as it goes through the minefield. There is not enough indication of what you are supposed to be attacking and attacking the wrong thing really should do something (even if it isn't a lot). The engines are able to be found but there is no clear indication that you are supposed to be attacking them if you miss the Lotus's instructions. The shield generators, however, even if you do hear the instructions are difficult to find and not clearly indicated. This needs to be fixed.

As for the other game modes, I haven't played them. Archwing is just that bad right now.

----------------------------------------------------

Lets talk about how to fix things.

First, start by acknowledging that Archwing will not be realistic and aim for fun instead. Also recognize that if archwing does not fit in with the rest of Warframe, than it will always be "that unpopular secondary mode that nobody plays". Players are here to play Warframe, not a flight simulator, and this game mode will fly or fail on how well it delivers a new take on "Warframe" or how much it decides to leave that behind to pursue something that it is not.

Start by putting everything back how it was before and making changes from that state. If nothing else, people have gotten used to it and so it is a less jarring change to start there than at the current iteration. The viewpoint, for instance, could be made into an option (old, new, or maybe even a slider), but forcing that change is too much for everything else that needs to be done (even if it eventually ends up being an ok thing, which is debatable). If the gamemode alienates players than it doesn't matter how good the changes were that led to that alienation. Also if too many changes are made at once it becomes a nightmare to pick out which ones were actually good and which ones were disasters.

As for the zoom, try to understand the functionality of the different options. First person works a bit better in First-Person-Shooters because you get a better view down your line of fire for a more accurate and quick understanding of where you will hit. When dealing with mele or any other circumstance where enemies will be right next to you, however, you will need the spacial awareness of proximity that simply is not afforded by the First-Person viewpoint. That was a really complicated way of saying that you need to be able to see around you when going into mele, and that the First-Person viewpoint doesn't do that. The Third-Person viewpoint works well in this respect and the Behind-the-Shoulder-Cam allows a good mix of what you might get from a Top-Down viewpoint while still preserving some of the advantages of a First-Person view. All this to say, move the camera farther back, the new viewpoint makes mele too difficult.

Remove the spin and give all archwing missions an acknowledged "up" and "down" direction, then adjust missions to match. It is best to be flying above or through things, and ok to be flying beside or below things, but disorienting to be flying at an angle to them; so adjust the missions rather than trying to force the gameplay to adjust. Remember, the gameplay is "Warframe in 3D", not "flight simulator".  Yes, this will suck on the programming and especially the level design end, but it is the only way to keep this mode similar enough to regular play so that skills built in Warframe can be used in Archwing. Again, if Archwing is a separate game than only a small percentage of players will be intereted in both, but if it is an extension of the current game than everyone who likes Warframe will likely have some level of interest. Also, the current way of doing it after the change makes some people (myself included) physically sick.

Next, eliminate ALL drift. Use the excuse that archwings have super advanced stabilizers and maneuvering thrusters or whatnot, but make sure the controls are TIGHT and extremely RESPONSIVE. This is at the core of what it means to be a ninja, and if the players loose that in space than most players will also loose a lot of interest.

Finally, acknowledge the difference in rewards. It takes 3-10 times as long to take out the most basic of archwing enemies compared to normal warframe ones and there is almost no way to blow away entire groups the way you can in normal Warframe. The rewards should reflect this. Furthermore it is much more difficult to find and pick up those drops in archwing, even if you don't count carrier's vaccum, so that is another thing to be fixed. Units for abilities are higher, so increasing the distance for pickup could easily be done in a similar way. If you can't reliably get rewards that are worth getting than why not go somewhere else?

After that you can look at other improvements that can be made. The introduction of new mission types that specifically take advantage of the open and speedy nature of that mode was a really good idea (if other changes hadn't ruined it). Good job on that. Just remember to look at what works as the basis for what to improve and be clear of what is a problem and how it is a problem and why it is a problem before trying to fix it.

 

[carnalKaiser]

It is just fantastically bad, isn't it? Granted, the previous Archwing movement wasn't exactly perfect, but to allow such a monumental downgrade in gameplay shows that DE are completely uninterested in quality assurance. To me it seems as if they just fiddle around and experiment, then toss it out as an "update" without bothering to test it first.
In fact, let me expand upon that point for just a bit. Many, many gameplay issues that have come up over the days, weeks, months and years of Warframe have been sorted only through the sheer amount of people getting frustrated with them and voicing their complaints into the Void (the forums) until DE take notice.
Couldn't you have subverted a lot of anger, damage control, "hotfixes", rollbacks and disappointment by simply testing out your new concepts and ideas before rolling them out?
Don't get some in-house chumps to do it, thorough and unbiased testing is the key to salvaging this nightmare of a downgrade. Apply yourselves.

[KaraFang]

Hi all.

 

Just played my first "new flight controls" archwing mission... oh god. (feels sick)

As a rule, I do not suffer from Motion sickness, but Archwing, along with Batman Arkham Knight Ridler racetrack missions, has managed to make me go green and find some "quiet" time in the lavatory studying the U bend while I fight the dry heaves. 

1/ I don't understand the sixaxis idea at all. I've never been too fond of it on space fighter sims, and when I found Freespace 1 and 2 offered mouse control (like the original Archwing control) I was happy. The original worked really well, I didn't need an improvement (dubious) to this. Put it back to the original, before I stop playing the Archwing missions due to physical illness beyond my control. (God, even thinking about it makes me wanna chuck).

2/ Add holographic floating arrows to the map to tell you where to go on your Archwing mission. This is needed due to the nature of archwing movement, whichever control you use. 

3/ The map is still useless. Rework or (if you go for the "holo" arrows, remove.

4/ Threat warnings. Do what FS and FS2 did, have an "eightball" for threat detection and red "angle and distance" markers around the hud for ease of orientation.

5/ Rush - remove the mines, they're just pointless and annoying. The rush was supposed to be Star Wars 4 trench run. I don't recall Luke hitting or avoiding "stasis" mines all the time. If you wanna make it a challenge, create a proper damn map with actual Environmental Hazards that you have to drive around.

6/ Even with the original Archwing controls, the map tunnels are far too small and cluttered with crap. To improve gameplay experience (this is a game, not reality) remove and make tunnels larger. It'll stop us smacking into everything all the time. 

Just... yeah. Really bad and not an improvement at all. I dunno if you expect people to move to a controller or joypad for archwing only or... I dunno. I can't play it in its current state, I just can't... blurgh thinking about it.