How to finish off the 2.0-ification

[Stratego89]

Opening note: My title at first might seem a bit clickbaity/off topic (and it's definitely not 100% accurate but it's the best I could do with my melted brain after typing all this). You'll understand it though once you read through. Originally I was going to go with something different but it was a bit... less refined. I would like to request to everyone to please try and remain civil in this thread- and if you plan on commenting at all to PLEASE read at least the majority, skimming through the entirety, not just seeing the parts you don't like to see that I am 100% sure some people will find to exist in this thread. The point of this is to improve the game for everyone- not ruin it for select invidivuals. If you don't understand that because you choose not to read, I kindly request you choose not to post and derail or flame the thread as well. Thank you.

Draco is dead. When I read those words when I woke up I could not have been happier to know something had FINALLY been done about that node.

But despite that I knew it was not over yet. The reason is- and I've said this MANY times in MANY places on these forums- Draco is not just a node. Draco WAS just a node, but it has become more of a mentality, movement, or... dare I say- plague.

You started it DE. You started the end of it- now you have to finish the job before it regenerates the piece you lobbed off. Only by destroying the entirety can you ever truly make it go away. It's like the Hydra. If you cut off a head- more grow back over time. You have to kill it completely.

Draco still lives- just in a different form. People have already started to try to abuse other areas of your game in it's stead- it's up to you guys to make sure that can't happen anymore until they finally give up. Until "Draco" finally keels over and dies.

 

Step 1: Remove interception or entirely replace/rework it from the ground up. Interception is the root of loot caves. 100% of them. Interception goes? Loot caves go. IDC if anyone believes me- it's the truth. Boosting spawns on interception was the worst thing you guys could have done to the mission- but that's what you did anyways. Take this opportunity. Make it go away. It is no longer necessary for ANYTHING in this game. It is an ancient relic. It's been bad since ages ago- and EVERYONE that doesn't abuse it agrees. It's exploited. It is boring. It lacks everything that makes warframe warframe from head to toe. Take it away- fast. Before people start abusing the other ones- so they don't have a chance to get another foothold.

 

Step 2: People do this for a reason. MOST of them (don't you dare try to deny it either because I've gotten it straight from your mouths countless times) do it for the HORRIBLE reason that they DO NOT enjoy the game and DO NOT want to PLAY the game- even after they level the gear, it's not to USE it it's to THROW IT AWAY, move to the next one, repeat the process until NOTHING is left- and then they just leave. They are cancer.

HOWEVER- there ARE some people out there that do it for LEGITIMATE reasons. The people who hate leveling stuff, don't have much time in a day to play the game or relax, and just want to be able to enjoy the higher level content with the weapons or other gear they like quickly. To them I have to say this- sorry, but that's just how it is. There aren't exceptions for people online in the world of business just because they have a life. If they make it easy for you- they make it easy for everyone, and that's bad. Both for the game, the community- the business. There's nothing that can be done- but if you have a life, you likely have a job, and you can afford to get the cheap boosters to help you progress MUCH faster- that's the exchange.

All that being said- stuff needs reworking (shocker right?). So it's time for step 3.

 

Step 3: It's time to focus on MR and Affinity (and to a lesser extent focus), DE (after war within hits). First thing's first. Stop making systems rely on each other. This is a very simple concept. MAJOR systems should NEVER rely on each other- it's bad game design. If they do- ONE thing fails and they all fail. This isn't just an important thing in game design- it's basically RULE #1 of coding. If ONE thing goes wrong- everything does, unless they don't rely on each other. Both systems on their own need major overhauls to adapt to all the other new stuff in the game- or rather to the new game, because at this point warframe is no longer the old warframe. It's warframe 2.0.

Affinity-

Spoiler

 

• First and foremost- you need to balance affinity gain amongst the mission types. There has to be some way to do it. Right now affinity is primarily based on enemies that you kill. Maybe that's what needs to change. I've been thinking for a while and I can't think of anything that sounds straight up better than the current system- and even if the current system is simply tweaked, there might be a way to balance the gain between missions with lots of enemies and missions with a few enemies still. I'll leave it up to the wizards at DE that always seem to find a solution to these hard problems, because sadly I cannot at this point in time. Good luck.
• Secondly- Preventing cheese. STRAIGHT UP loot caves cannot exist in this game anymore without interception or anything that mimics it. SIMILAR things however would remain still. You can squash out any "loot-cave-esque" things that remain after the primary problem causer interception is gone by simply giving reduced returns the same way you talked about abilities not affecting enemies as much after you repeatedly hit them with something. The more a player sits on a certain node/mission type- the less XP they get, until they play other stuff for a while. No more people sitting on one node or abusing one mission type. They can't. It's done. They can get a few runs out of it- but then even if it's unbalanced and something needs fixing- BAM- they can no longer abuse it nonstop forever. This is the #1 thing that needs to change with affinity.
• One final note: As made obvious by my comments about interception and loot caves, as well as difference in affinity gain being related to high and low concentrations of enemies in different mission types. It's important to balance affinity between those high and low enemy concentrations, but it's also important to get around to improving the older mission types as well. Those like capture that present absolutely no challenge (deception got removed for the same reasons I'm assuming) need to. If you're not working to complete a mission, you shouldn't get a reward like you had. That is a part of the problem just as much as enemy concentration differences is.

 

 

Mastery Rank-

Spoiler

 

• As said before- the most important thing here is that Mastery Rank is ENTIRELY de-linked from affinity. That means reworking it to operate on a new system that has absolutely nothing to do with leveling gear. Countless ideas and suggestions have been thrown around by both staff and community alike on how you guys could possibly go about this if you ever chose to- none have been perfect. If I had to suggest something that I think would be both the easiest to implement and LEAST LIKELY to break down somehow/fail, it would be the Junction tasks. Yes, Junction tasks. Those glorious (albeit a bit annoying) errands that we have to perform to get those junctions back online. I say they're annoying- but that's because as someone who had the starchart cleared it feels arbitrary to me. For a new player- it's a PERFECT, INTERESTING system. I have no complaints about it at the current time outside of "I am a bit lazy, so it kinda sucks, but oh well that's just a me thing I'll get over it". (moving onto a new block to keep things clean)
• (cont.) The mastery rank system could be something very similar to the Junctions. Each mastery rank has a set of tasks that must be completed in order to take the test to progress to the next rank. This was one of the more popular ideas discussed once on a devstream. There were both positive and negative reactions from chat. Positive reactions generally being something along the lines of "that sounds so much better than how it works now" or "ooo that would be fun, interesting". NEGATIVE reactions generally being something like "no MR is good now I have high MR because I cleared game I don't want to do it again". Which IMO can be ignored because there's no legitimate reasons there to not replace an old system with a much better one. One of the issues the team discussed was not knowing what kind of stuff they could set the "tasks" in this system to be so they could both note be cheesed, not be repetitive, and be fitting of "mastery". I also had issues at the time thinking of stuff, but after seeing some of these Junction tasks my eyes have opened to the possibilities.
• (cont.) Some of the potential task types could be:

1. complete X number of certain mission types/clear XX total minutes/waves of survival/interception
2. defeat a certain type of enemy- be it specific like scorpions or general like arid grineer or simply infested
3. achieve a certain number of waves/minutes in a single match of a certain area
4. clear a certain area within a certain time limit
5. do "this well" in a mission type (such as do not let pod take X% of it's health off in X waves)
6. obtain (this means craft SPECIFICALLY) a total of X weapons / weapon type (in career total if there are concerns about those who are not even willing to trade to get platinum for weapon slots. At once if that is not a concern. I personally do not find it a concern so long as players are ALWAYS able to get weapon slots without using REAL money)
7. kill XX number of enemies (specific enemies/types if desired) using XX method/weapon (killing lephantis solo with melee- anyone remember that devstream?- other examples would be "# of headshot kills using a sniper rifle" or "# of stealth finishers", but I see examples like those as something that is too easily cheesable, especially using certain gear).
8. Max out # of rank 5/10 mods.
9. Reveal % of section of codex (Giving it an actual use and encouraging players to explore and really look around at the game they're playing in, and encouraging them to look at the #1 source of information in this game CANNOT be a bad thing).
10. Clear X % of starchart (right now it gives MR xp, and it feels good and encourages exploration and progression. Since MR xp wouldn't be a thing anymore under this suggested system, it'd make sense to put starchart progression %s as requirements for occasional/every MR rank. Careful attention would need to be paid to ensure new MR locks on any areas/content do NOT prevent you from reaching the MR necessary for them if you have that area cleared, or keep players from getting "suitable gear to clear content necessary to achieve the MR they need for said gear". Basically make sure the %s are far below what is necessary in whatever areas the previous rank's players would be in to prevent internal conflicts within the system).

• (cont.) Obviously many more task types could be implemented. These are just some very rough, general concepts- most of which could be implemented in various different ways. As players moved up the ranks- the tasks to complete for the next rank would become greater in number, difficulty, complexity, and variety. Basically the higher you got- the longer it would take to get the next rank. Just like it is now. An important thing to note. If you completed EG a 60 minute survival while at MR 2 and it was a task for MR 5- it WOULD NOT COUNT. This is to make sure the challenges can remain a bit similar without accidentally clearing future ones while clearing current ones- so people would just waltz right through them.
• Another big issue with MR atm is mastery locks. I think mastery locks are a good concept that- as the devs and players alike have said MANY times- are simply not implemented well. Part of that issue is because frankly- MR locks mean nothing because MR itself means nothing due to the issues discussed previously. Therefore once MR is reworked and DOES mean something- they will finally serve a purpose and have good reason to be attended to and assigned properly. The core idea here is to add a sense of progression to gear and content- and to keep people from getting some gear that is CLEARLY better than others. One example is syndicate gear. Syndicates may or may not be MR locked (I wouldn't know since if they are I was already high enough MR at the time to just get straight into them) but if they are not, I suggest locking them somewhere around saturn-level MR. Before second dream but long after Vor's Prize. The Syndicate weapons themselves should be locked even higher. Likely somewhere around Uranus-level MR. JUST before second dream (because it might really help some players out when sentients and shadow stalker- properly "difficult" enemies- show up to murderize them). Raids and sorties need to be locked higher. They're supposed to be "end-game"-ish content according to DE themselves. Lock it like it's supposed to be once MR is fixed up. I do not believe any planets or junctions should be MR locked, but that's a personal opinion that has no actual basis or reasoning as to why- so it's up to DE once again. Quest MR locks are important for obvious reasons. I think that's about it for this section, though I feel I may be missing something. If I remember anything else I'll come back to edit it.
• Locked content being unlocked is not a reward so much as it just is limitations being taken off. It doesn't feel "rewarding" as much as actual rewards. Each Mastery Rank should give you something. I think it already currently does but again I've been high MR for so long now that I wouldn't even know what we'd get. It has to have some oomph to it. A set of potatos at lower ranks. A pack of forma at medium ranks. An exilus adapter or focus lens pack at higher ranks. Stuff like that. Choices between stuff could be kinda nice and let it feel more personalized as well. After all it's YOUR personal mastery of stuff. The stuff you get should suit you well at the time.

 

 

I think that's just about it now. I've been typing for a while here- unlike most of my big threads I didn't prepare this one beforehand because I felt a need to be quick about it. If I think about any MAJOR things I missed I'll come back and add a section for it right away, and for minor mistakes and leave-outs I've done I'll find some time to come back and edit them if I manage to find them.

 

To those who read- ESPECIALLY DE- thank you for your time, and I hope this thread makes some sort of a difference. The more of DE that sees it- the more likely it does. If you agree with the points I've made, don't (just) give it a +1 or a comment. Tell your friends too, talk about it.

Saying that it makes it sound like this might belong more in general discussion but in the end it's feedback about changes that were made and that I feel should be made to the game as a whole following those changes, so I put it in feedback. If a mod/admin decides it should belong in general, please feel free to move it. It'd probably get better visability there anyways.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Stratego89

[rockscl]

instead of clearing the modes that allow more massacre, they should work on allowing us to stomp on tons of enemies without that breaking affinity gains, because essentially, big hordes are also big fun imo

[Stratego89]

Just now, rockscl said:

instead of clearing the modes that allow more massacre, they should work on allowing us to stomp on tons of enemies without that breaking affinity gains, because essentially, big hordes are also big fun imo

That was one of my points...

[tongdaddy]

4 hours ago, Stratego89 said:

 

 

 

 

HOWEVER- there ARE some people out there that do it for LEGITIMATE reasons. The people who hate leveling stuff, don't have much time in a day to play the game or relax, and just want to be able to enjoy the higher level content with the weapons or other gear they like quickly. To them I have to say this- sorry, but that's just how it is. 

 

10

I enjoy leveling gear and working on builds, I am not a cancer, and I could care less about Mastery rank.   Working on builds, changing builds and working on them more is what I enjoy in the game.   Not linear progression, not being called names or made to feel like I'm some sort of scrub because I don't want to run 'spy' missions.   Removing a quick efficient way to level gear so that I may build it, and run mission (typically solo, typically void) is game breaking to myself, and I would assume other like me.   

Sorry, that's just how it is.

 

I'm unsure how I negatively impacted anyone else game by doing these thing, but that seems to be the inference in all of the 'horray no more draco' posts.

[Stratego89]

5 minutes ago, tongdaddy said:

I enjoy leveling gear and working on builds, I am not a cancer, and I could care less about Mastery rank.   Working on builds, changing builds and working on them more is what I enjoy in the game.   Not linear progression, not being called names or made to feel like I'm some sort of scrub because I don't want to run 'spy' missions.   Removing a quick efficient way to level gear so that I may build it, and run mission (typically solo, typically void) is game breaking to myself, and I would assume other like me.   

Sorry, that's just how it is.

 

I'm unsure how I negatively impacted anyone else game by doing these thing, but that seems to be the inference in all of the 'horray no more draco' posts.

You are not part of the problem. You are not abusing Draco, you are using it. You are playing on it.

This is why I said SO MANY TIMES in this thread and in all my posts- DRACO is not the problem. LOOT CAVES are not the problem. The things they CREATE are. You are not one of the many bad things it creates. I'll say it again- YOU are not part of the problem. I'm sorry if you read this and for some reason took it as some great insult to all who use Draco- but I stated various times it is not and it's not my fault if you didn't see those parts because you didn't choose to read that far.

EDIT: And if you want to see how the people who DO abuse it affect everyone else negatively despite their best attempts to deny that there are any affects on others- you can actually go ahead and read more than the first few lines like I kindly requested people to do at the start of the thread.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Stratego89

[tongdaddy]

I am for real. 

 

I skipped over you calling the node that allowed me to do what I enjoy a plauge, I believe it was, and impugning people who used it.   Why did it bother you so?    Why shoul I now 'buy boosters'?  why is that "Just the way it is"?  because it pleases your sensibilities and your playstyle?

 

I made a further case for my playstyle and why I was personlly bothers.... you took it at some assult on you, again I ask, why?

Edited July 9, 2016 by tongdaddy
addendum

[Stratego89]

Just now, tongdaddy said:

I am for real. 

 

I skipped over you calling the node that allowed me to do what I enjoy a plauge, I believe it was, and impugning people who used it.   Why did it other you so?    Why shoul I now 'buy boosters'?  why is that "Just the way it is"?  because it pleases your sensibilities and your playstyle?

 

 

Please reread the previous response. I misread what you had said and was retyping while you read and responded. Apologies.

[tongdaddy]

It just seems that it was a love it or hate thing, and I want to be clear I dont think I bothered a single person doing what I liked in warframe.   And these changes have left me staring at the star chart saying "what now"   its actually depressing to me

[Stratego89]

4 minutes ago, tongdaddy said:

It just seems that it was a love it or hate thing, and I want to be clear I dont think I bothered a single person doing what I liked in warframe.   And these changes have left me staring at the star chart saying "what now"   its actually depressing to me

Again, as I said before- this had nothing to do with you. if you're honest about what you said- you're not part of the problem playerbase this was meant to deal with.

I admit this new star chart almost feels like it's punishing everyone- but that's just because it's DAMN hard to navigate because there's a major lack of clear MAJOR path. It all looks the same. There's no one path that's extra bright or a thicker line to show the way THROUGH it- and it needs that desperately.

If you mean "what now" as in "what do I do now that Draco is gone"; then as I said in my post and this time it DOES apply to you- that's just how it is, sorry. We're not meant to just plow through stuff quickly. Be it the first go for MR or forma to fit more mods on. That's the point. If you don't like it- that's not their fault and it's just not going to change. That's how a F2P model works. You're by far not the only person to complain about it- but no matter how many people do it will not change. They need it to run as a business. You either accept it, or leave. That's how F2P works. But I GUARANTEE YOU you will not find a better one out there. ANY other game you play is going to burn you 100x worse with work or even force you to pay to progress.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Stratego89

[tongdaddy]

So the answer is 'fall in line' and 'we are meant to play a certain way'  

 

Warframe isnt the game I thought it was, and Ill find something else.  That's not me freaking out, or ragequitting, or whatnot.   Linear progression games arent my thing, I liked that I could play different things in different environments. Its funny though, that the things I dont like I just must accept, The thigs you dont like were 'plagues'

Well, thanks for all your interesting input

[Stratego89]

4 minutes ago, tongdaddy said:

So the answer is 'fall in line' and 'we are meant to play a certain way'  

 

Warframe isnt the game I thought it was, and Ill find something else.  That's not me freaking out, or ragequitting, or whatnot.   Linear progression games arent my thing, I liked that I could play different things in different environments. Its funny though, that the things I dont like I just must accept, The thigs you dont like were 'plagues'

Well, thanks for all your interesting input

Warframe is as far from a linear progression game as it gets, dude. Where the hell are you getting that from?

The things that I don't like aren't plagues- the things that are killing something are. There's a difference.

[Kappatalist]

What is this "Draco" monster you speak of? I've not heard of it, but from how you describe it, it sounds a lot like the legendary beast called "Xini". You may have heard of it, although some folks refer to it as "Kappa".

[-CdG-Zilchy]

People have trouble reading between the lines it seems. OP is not calling people cancer for using Draco to multi forma weaponry, explore new builds etc. He's talking about all the new players who get taxi'd, level up weaponry without ever trying it out once, throw it away, gain MR ranks each day, make whiney posts that MR ranks are too hard(cos they've never used the movement keys before), whine about having to wait for progression, get to MR 12 inside of a few weeks, multi forma a valkyr and an excalibur plus theit faithful tonkor, then get bored and leave the game having rushed all the content within a month and are too lazy to do anything else in the game.

[tongdaddy]

So if i leave game because they got rid of the thing to stop people rushing thru the game and leaving the game is gone, that's ok?

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Unfortunately, @Stratego89, 3/4 of the commenters won't make it past step 2, and they'll misinterpret half of what's before that.

On topic, there's two Interception tilesets I like, one of which really can't be Draco spammed. Both are/were on Earth, which is still the only planet (to my knowledge) that has unique interception tilesets. Defense tilesets do not work for interception. So that's part of the problem. Another thing is affinity gains on Interception already made no sense: there was no affinity boost or passive affinity gain for controlling all four objectives, only for capturing all four. That meant it was better affinity-wise to lose an objective and then take it back, than it would be to just hold it. Moreover, affinity gains for completing objectives needs to rise. A third thing, enemy spawning on Interception is badly designed. If enemies came out in a steady stream from many places, rather than twenty at once from one place, that would help.

I would caution you with your first paragraph in step 2. I agree that the reasoning behind why what those people do is awful, but I think there is some sense to it; those people are so into the concept of ranking and gaining power, something that is supposed to drive player motivations, that they don't stop to think about playing. Which is actually more of why I like your suggestion for Mastery: those people will actually have to play the game to get that motivation they want.

On affinity gain:

Each mission should have more objective-based affinity gain. I suggest significantly nerfing XP gain from killing trash mobs (maybe 1/4 of original). Then the following will make affinity easier to get. The below is not scaled based on level, so the static affinity values are from a mid-level planet like Saturn.

Exterminate: 1.5x original XP gain per kill, plus 5K affinity upon killing all the enemies. Since this mode is about killing everything, affinity should reflect that.

Capture: This mode needs a rework, but until then, 20K if you get him in the original room, 10K if you get the target before the halfway point, and 5K if you get him after that.

Rescue: 5K for rescue, 10K for clean rescue if no alarms are sounded, and 20K if target doesn't get hit.

Defense: This mode also needs a rework IMO, but barring that, 2K per wave defended. 3K if target never sank below shield gate.

Mobile Defense: 3K per terminal defended, with 2K extra if enemies never break shield gate.

Survival: Passive affinity gain every second player survives.

Spy: is good as-is.

Sabotage: type dependent, but I think you get the point.

[Stratego89]

49 minutes ago, tongdaddy said:

So if i leave game because they got rid of the thing to stop people rushing thru the game and leaving the game is gone, that's ok?

Hate to say it this way like it's nothing- but yes. One guy doesn't make a difference, no matter who they are. DE doesn't look at us as numbers- but even though they don't, we still are. To a company- what matters first and foremost is that things keep bringing in money. And if people are going to quit over something THIS minor that makes FAR more improvements to make A LOT of people happy- they were likely ready to quit as it was anyways.

[Stratego89]

38 minutes ago, (PS4)WiiConquered said:

Unfortunately, @Stratego89, 3/4 of the commenters won't make it past step 2, and they'll misinterpret half of what's before that.

On topic, there's two Interception tilesets I like, one of which really can't be Draco spammed. Both are/were on Earth, which is still the only planet (to my knowledge) that has unique interception tilesets. Defense tilesets do not work for interception. So that's part of the problem. Another thing is affinity gains on Interception already made no sense: there was no affinity boost or passive affinity gain for controlling all four objectives, only for capturing all four. That meant it was better affinity-wise to lose an objective and then take it back, than it would be to just hold it. Moreover, affinity gains for completing objectives needs to rise. A third thing, enemy spawning on Interception is badly designed. If enemies came out in a steady stream from many places, rather than twenty at once from one place, that would help.

I would caution you with your first paragraph in step 2. I agree that the reasoning behind why what those people do is awful, but I think there is some sense to it; those people are so into the concept of ranking and gaining power, something that is supposed to drive player motivations, that they don't stop to think about playing. Which is actually more of why I like your suggestion for Mastery: those people will actually have to play the game to get that motivation they want.

On affinity gain:

Each mission should have more objective-based affinity gain.

-snip-

I went into this expecting that. I don't have faith in humanity anymore- but there's at least some good ones out there still, and DE is part of that small special bunch so it still makes a difference to speak up.

There is only ONE interception tile (there COULD be more but I don't play interception because I hate it so very much) that I consider decent- that one is Cerberus. Why? Because it FORCES your team to split up completely- and people can't (as easily) abuse powerspam mob clear like they can on Draco. Unfortunately- Interception as a whole is still bad since it's like a switch. It's either "this is so boring I feel like I'm going to die" or "OMG THIS IS SO HECTIC IM ABOUT TO DIE!!". There's no in between- and that's bad for the same reason scaling is currently so complained about. Most missions have a very small "this is the right level to play at" timeframe and go straight to being insane shortly after. Interception doesn't even have that much- but it's not because of scaling, it's because of how the game mode works. Also I disagree with you. A steady stream would not help- that would only make things more efficient for the people that DE is trying to stop. The game mode simply has to change. I have a rework concept for it- that TOTALLY changes it but keeps the general idea of "interception"- but I'm not sure if I've posted it or not in the past. If I haven't it's laying around somewhere- as I said in this thread's OP I tend to usually type stuff up, organize, proof read, make edits, and check my logic/look for issues for quite some time before posting stuff.

I don't see any sense in that, speaking frankly. I have always tended to be a completionist- but what is the point in completing something if you're not enjoying it? Regardless- even if they do enjoy it, I just see too many of them turn into THAT kind of player that has no place in this community and causes nothing but grief for everyone else. I don't like to stigmatize- but when LITERALLY everything I see goes in one end of something and comes out the other looking like a specific thing- it's hard not to.

Agreed with the general idea of affinity gain. One of the simpler ways to stabilize/ balance it out would in fact be to set most of it to mission types. That being said- people will eventually find which one gives slightly more and do nothing that that. The problem here isn't just abuse- it's how people always swarm to one thing. You can't fix the mentality, but there's gotta be a way to stop them. It's a moving train. Yes it has a ton of momentum. Maybe you can't stop it with any wall... but if you take away it's tracks and derail it- it's going to stop on it's own eventually.

[tongdaddy]

 

/10char

Edited July 9, 2016 by tongdaddy
obvious thing is obvious

[Stratego89]

6 minutes ago, tongdaddy said:

 

/10char

... wut?

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

33 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

I went into this expecting that. I don't have faith in humanity anymore- but there's at least some good ones out there still, and DE is part of that small special bunch so it still makes a difference to speak up.

There is only ONE interception tile (there COULD be more but I don't play interception because I hate it so very much) that I consider decent- that one is Cerberus. Why? Because it FORCES your team to split up completely- and people can't (as easily) abuse powerspam mob clear like they can on Draco. Unfortunately- Interception as a whole is still bad since it's like a switch. It's either "this is so boring I feel like I'm going to die" or "OMG THIS IS SO HECTIC IM ABOUT TO DIE!!". There's no in between- and that's bad for the same reason scaling is currently so complained about. Most missions have a very small "this is the right level to play at" timeframe and go straight to being insane shortly after. Interception doesn't even have that much- but it's not because of scaling, it's because of how the game mode works. Also I disagree with you. A steady stream would not help- that would only make things more efficient for the people that DE is trying to stop. The game mode simply has to change. I have a rework concept for it- that TOTALLY changes it but keeps the general idea of "interception"- but I'm not sure if I've posted it or not in the past. If I haven't it's laying around somewhere- as I said in this thread's OP I tend to usually type stuff up, organize, proof read, make edits, and check my logic/look for issues for quite some time before posting stuff.

Interception could use a complete rework, as could many game modes.

That being said, a steady stream would work better than the current spawn system, which (from my understanding) Draco was reliant upon. Because enemies all spawned at once, wiping enemies all at once would cause the next wave to spawn, all at once. This is how players could kill thousands of enemies in little time. Moreover, it's why playing Interception normally has periods where, because one enemy from a spawn group is still alive, nothing's spawning and attacking. It's also why the periods where a player can get mobbed uncontrollably happen, because group-spawns happen at two or more spawn zones near each other. Steady stream would make it impossible to speed up the spawn rate by killing enemies faster, while also making it impossible to take a nap because nothing's happening.

Also, even that wouldn't be a problem, if Interception had more maps built for the mode, and none built for Defence which is designed to concentrate enemies and players in one spot.

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I don't see any sense in that, speaking frankly. I have always tended to be a completionist- but what is the point in completing something if you're not enjoying it? Regardless- even if they do enjoy it, I just see too many of them turn into THAT kind of player that has no place in this community and causes nothing but grief for everyone else. I don't like to stigmatize- but when LITERALLY everything I see goes in one end of something and comes out the other looking like a specific thing- it's hard not to.

Because it isn't "sensible", if by that you mean logical, but progression games are inherently not logical. Such systems use people's inherent desire to better themselves and applies it to a situation where that's not really happening. Draco runners are the early adopters of the wheel--they are increasing efficiency to make growth happen faster. Of course, there's no real-world value, which is why it makes no logical sense, but that's the case for progression in this game in general, especially considering until recently there was no story, no endgame, and yet we were still trying to unlock stuff.

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Agreed with the general idea of affinity gain. One of the simpler ways to stabilize/ balance it out would in fact be to set most of it to mission types. That being said- people will eventually find which one gives slightly more and do nothing that that. The problem here isn't just abuse- it's how people always swarm to one thing. You can't fix the mentality, but there's gotta be a way to stop them. It's a moving train. Yes it has a ton of momentum. Maybe you can't stop it with any wall... but if you take away it's tracks and derail it- it's going to stop on it's own eventually.

But that's not the case when it comes to key farming, it wasn't the case with pre-Viver affinity farming, it's not the case with core farming... There will always be a mathematically fastest way to complete a task. It's like balancing weapons; not about removing a fastest option, but instead about making the difference between the fastest and slowest small enough that player preferences can become more important than mathematical speed.

Ex: let's say Survival has the fastest XP gains if it's played with 4 different conditions. Rescue has the slowest XP gains, if it's played normally. But Survival XP gains, with the different conditions, are only 10%-20% higher than Rescue. Someone who prefers not to use those conditions, and likes Rescue more, will decide Rescue is a better choice.

Edited July 9, 2016 by (PS4)WiiConquered