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Void Fissure 2.0 (Yes, already)


DrBorris
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Yes, the rework is still pretty fresh, but it has some massive issues.

  • Still extremely repetitious
  • Short missions are straight up better than extended (especially endless).
  • No reason to stay in an endless mission.

(There are some other issues like Nullifier spam and not enough Reactant but those are smaller issues, this post is about the more conceptual stuff.)

Why would you run the Survival when there is a Capture is open? And while the clusterfudge is fun at first, it eventually just gets repetitive.

 

------------------------Missions------------------------

So the basic concept is relatively simple, Fissures have different mechanics based on the mission type they spawn in. It is kind of counter intuitive how DE did this. Sure, we now get to wonder the Solar System while grinding prime parts, but no matter what mission we are doing the Fissure objective is always exactly the same. If we truly want to get rid of the monotony, you can’t have the same objective for every mission (duh).

 

Single Objective: As compared to an endless mission, you’ll get your prize faster. These are the runs you can just spam over and over to roll your RNG more times, at the cost of using more relics.

Exterminate

Spoiler

How it is now, but no reactants. The percentage goes up per enemy killed.

Mobile Defense

Spoiler

Activating the Fissure turns it into a point you need to defend from enemies (corrupted and whoever normally spawns there). Corrupted spawn between 15 and 25 meters away from the Fissure.

Capture

Spoiler

Spawns capture targets that try and run away (3-6 depending on level). Each drops Reactant that you bring back to the Fissure (percentage done is based on how many will spawn).      

On a side note, it is about time for a fancy Orokin capture target.

Spy

Spoiler

This one beats me, maybe just keep it the same as it is now. It is counterintuitive to make an intense Fissure and be stealth at the same time.

Rescue

Spoiler

This one has a similar problem as spy, suggestions would be great.

Sabotage

Spoiler

Exactly as it is now.

Hijack

Spoiler

This is a really good opportunity for something… different… but how to allow for integrate the movement of hijacking into the fissure is difficult.

Assassinate

Spoiler

Fight Corrupted Vor in addition to the regular boss. The Fissure spawns in the same room as the boss and is automatically opened when the boss fight starts.

 

Endless: These will offer a “bigger bang for your buck” in that you can use one relic and get multiple parts. However, it will generally take more time per part than a more basic objective mission.

How you pick rewards is similar as to how it is for single rewards. On the mission complete screen, you will have your standard rows of 1-4 rewards, but because you can get multiple parts there are now rows to the four columns (the reward you pick appears on the right side probably). You also get an additional five seconds per additional prime part to pick what parts you want.

Survival

Spoiler

A Void Fissure appears within the first three tiles of the spawn. In order to reap the rewards of the Fissure, you have to activate within the first five minutes.

Corrupted enemies will spawn out of the Fissure at a relatively low rate, probably around only 25% more troops than you would normally have being spawned in the mission. These troops DO NOT spawn LS.

During these “down times,” there is no need to maintain the Fissure (feed it with reactant).

Within each reward rotation (5 minutes) at a RNG time there will be a “storm” where the Fissure will act as they do now (massive clusterf**k). During this time, you will have to feed the Fissure with Reactants as well as make sure that you don’t run out of LS. Once you get it to 100% the Fissure will return to its low spawn rate. There will be a warning one minute preceding the “storm” so you know to go to the Fissure.

  • Reward: You will get a prime reward every 10 minutes.

Defense

Spoiler

You must activate the Fissure within the first wave, enemies will spawn out of the Fissure and attack the objective (25% more than a regular mission). Like Survival, no reactants during this time.

Every fifth wave the Fissure will have a “storm” where mass amunts of enemies will spawn and attack the objective. You DO NOT have to feed with reactant during this period.

  • Reward: Every 10 waves.

Interception

Spoiler

Activating the Fissure will turn it into its own Interception tower of sorts.

Unlike normal Interception towers, this one is “hacked” simply by enemies being within 5 meters of it.  As the Fissure is hacked it turns from gold/orange to blue/black. For every corrupted in that range it will hack at a rate of 5% (subject to change) per second (have a display of percentage under the normal interception bars). When no Corrupted are in range it loses percentage at 10% per second.

Enemies spawn between 20 and 30 meters away from the fissure and only attack that Fissure at the regular 25% spawn rate.

Not sure if there should be a “storm” period, having a fifth tower seems plenty hard enough.

  • Reward: Every other wave.

Excavation

Spoiler

Pretty much copy-paste from Survival except that no corrupted spawn during “down time” and there would probably need to be a 2-minute warning due to the large size of Excavation maps.

  • Reward: Every 4 extractors.

 

Archwing: Yes, this needs to happen, I understand that movement is a “bit” wonky after this update but Archwing needs more reasons to exist

 

------------------------Fissure Spawns------------------------

In addition to all of this the spawn rate of Fissures on the star chart needs to be give quite the buff, there should be at least two Fissures up per tier at a time (max of 4, average of 3). Also, every void mission should have a Fissure in it (this is included in the average of 3) where the tier of Fissure is based on the tier of the mission. Of course it is still optional to do this part, but this would make the Void the point of consistency where you know that you can go to.

 

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Just now, Magnulast said:

Endless missions should use as many relics as many rewards they get. Why? Because why do a capture or objective based mission, when you clearly have a advantage to use a radiant relic again and again without penalty?

Because quick missions are, well, quicker. You are not getting your rewards ever 5 min/5waves, you gotta do 10 to get your first rotation. This as compared to a Capture or Exterminate is much longer.

So yes, if you are frugal you will generally run endless, but if want that prime part faster you would do the non-endless.

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Just now, DrBorris said:

Because quick missions are, well, quicker. You are not getting your rewards ever 5 min/5waves, you gotta do 10 to get your first rotation. This as compared to a Capture or Exterminate is much longer.

So yes, if you are frugal you will generally run endless, but if want that prime part faster you would do the non-endless.

That wasn't exactly my point, my point was survival or and endless mission become the most "optimized" solution for costly relics.

Farming void traces takes time, and any endless mission suggested literally removed the point of farming them.

Warframe is about grinding, and grinding the most optimized way yields the most profit.

The system that we have is fun because non-endless missions are optimal.

What's fun if you only get a extremely small amount of profit doing something fun and getting a insanely higher amount of ease and profit to a endless mission?

It's not fun.

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I wante to fulfill the "20 minutes in Draco" requirement today for one of the Ceres Junctions. As it happened there was also a fissure in the mission so I figured I would hit 2 birds with one stone.

I closed the fissure with my relic, then at the 10 minutes mark the timer vanished and life support capsules stopped appearing. Just like in Survival Alerts.

"Fissures" aren't an addition to existing mission types. They are a mission type in and of themselves. you can't "stay" in an endless fissure mission. They are not endless. They are alerts.

Edited by LordPreda
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4 minutes ago, Magnulast said:

That wasn't exactly my point, my point was survival or and endless mission become the most "optimized" solution for costly relics.

Farming void traces takes time, and any endless mission suggested literally removed the point of farming them.

Warframe is about grinding, and grinding the most optimized way yields the most profit.

The system that we have is fun because non-endless missions are optimal.

What's fun if you only get a extremely small amount of profit doing something fun and getting a insanely higher amount of ease and profit to a endless mission?

It's not fun.

You do have a point with the "Radiant" Fissures. However, let's think of it this way, it takes you 20 min to get just two rewards. 20 min, that is a long time to just make doing an endless mission worthwhile. That... is a long time. It is not 10 min and it is better, it is 20 min and it is better. But, as you said, this isn't the only thing to consider, we also have to make sure it is not too good.

Now the average survival run when you want to stay for "awhile" is 40 min. As an avid Star Chart survival player, I can defend that after that magical 40 min mark stuff gets... interesting (because of exponential enemy level scaling). When you combine this with 25% more spawns and a clusterfudge every 5 min running an extended survival will not be for the faint of heart. Sure this is only Survival, but these concepts apply to all of the mission types. The more I think about it, Endless Fissures are going to be pretty hard. Just imagine Grineer+Nullifiers or Corpus Nullifiers+Corrupted Nullifiers+Bombards sounds like hell. If you are going through hell, you better get rewarded.

 

All of this said, I think this leaves plenty of room for people to make a decision on what to do. It is not just "I get more rewards."

 

And I personally vastly prefer running random star chart survivals over pretty much any non-endless mission, "not fun" is subjective.  

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Just now, DrBorris said:

Spy

  Hide contents

This one beats me, maybe just keep it the same as it is now. It is counterintuitive to make an intense Fissure and be stealth at the same time.

The Fissure is actually a portal (like the time warping portals in Moon Spy missions) that takes you to a special Void Spy vault. Lots of enemies in the vault, but they won't erase the data - they'll just distract you while you solve the puzzle and reach the computer panel.

There!

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27 minutes ago, Shifted said:

Yes for new fissure types, no to binding it to a specific gamemode (would rather have it randomized for an element of surprise), and definitely no to buffing Endless again.

Buffing endless again? Last I checked endless is now pointless so I think a "buff" is in order. Don't forget that there is a large part of the community that ENJOYS endless missions. And I have said earlier, endless missions are not a better version of non-endless, they are different.

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2 hours ago, DrBorris said:

You do have a point with the "Radiant" Fissures. However, let's think of it this way, it takes you 20 min to get just two rewards. 20 min, that is a long time to just make doing an endless mission worthwhile. That... is a long time. It is not 10 min and it is better, it is 20 min and it is better. But, as you said, this isn't the only thing to consider, we also have to make sure it is not too good.

Now the average survival run when you want to stay for "awhile" is 40 min. As an avid Star Chart survival player, I can defend that after that magical 40 min mark stuff gets... interesting (because of exponential enemy level scaling). When you combine this with 25% more spawns and a clusterfudge every 5 min running an extended survival will not be for the faint of heart. Sure this is only Survival, but these concepts apply to all of the mission types. The more I think about it, Endless Fissures are going to be pretty hard. Just imagine Grineer+Nullifiers or Corpus Nullifiers+Corrupted Nullifiers+Bombards sounds like hell. If you are going through hell, you better get rewarded.

 

All of this said, I think this leaves plenty of room for people to make a decision on what to do. It is not just "I get more rewards."

 

And I personally vastly prefer running random star chart survivals over pretty much any non-endless mission, "not fun" is subjective.  

...That won't work. Why? Because people will complain and change to meta. 

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of fighting a clusterfudge, but....honestly, if it's going to be unavoidable combat, it's clearly not fun to some people.

But imagine this, if a ancient healer spawned, imagine what would happen.

Instead of being...well, a challenge to take out enemies, you need a mass murder weapon instead to complete the fissure.

You'll need a higher level cap instead, possible 15+ levels higher of current enemies in mission?

Do keep in mind 2 rewards is not as valuable as 4 CHOICES AT THE END.....do you know HOW MANY CHANCE THERE TRULY ARE?

10% max radiant buff for RARE items, then 8X CHANCES TO GET THAT ONE ITEM JUST FOR 20 MINUTES if everyone has radiant keys***

Not to mention, there are people who go for hours in survival, and to them, it's not even hard.

I do agree though, not fun is subjective....but you shouldn't make ideas subjective to the player.

-----------

Not saying your idea of providing concepts for both players previous and newer like is bad in general.

But the quality of the work of the idea...is not good at all....Too subjective to profit.

---------------

Meta removes "Hard" because "Nullfier" Complaints creates issues.

You forgot Meta needs to be counteracted in this idea....there needs to be a cap onto this.

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2 hours ago, DrBorris said:

Buffing endless again? Last I checked endless is now pointless so I think a "buff" is in order. Don't forget that there is a large part of the community that ENJOYS endless missions. And I have said earlier, endless missions are not a better version of non-endless, they are different.

You enjoy Endless? Great for you, go farm some relics on it then. Fun and profit.
But don't force me to afk-4-spam through void defence again to get the prime parts I want.
And no, using one relic to get multiple rewards is bullship and we'd be back to pre-sotr state.
You want multiple rewards? Cool, but let it eat your relics.
You've got plenty of them anyway, since you've been farming them in your endless missions - the MOST EFFICIENT way of farming them right now, haven't you?

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1 minute ago, Shifted said:

You enjoy Endless? Great for you, go farm some relics on it then. Fun and profit.
But don't force me to afk-4-spam through void defence again to get the prime parts I want.
And no, using one relic to get multiple rewards is bullship and we'd be back to pre-sotr state.
You want multiple rewards? Cool, but let it eat your relics.
You've got plenty of them anyway, since you've been farming them in your endless missions - the MOST EFFICIENT way of farming them right now, haven't you?

Yeah, I do enjoy my endless missions more, but why would I endure do a longer, harder mission when I can just spam Exterminates and Captures? This brings us right back to pre-SotR where you play the same mission over and over (except now it is mission type rather than faction). That brings me back to square one where I do pub survivals for just sh!ts and giggles.

 

How the hay is this concept forcing you to do anything? I'll just quote myself...

3 hours ago, DrBorris said:

You do have a point with the "Radiant" Fissures. However, let's think of it this way, it takes you 20 min to get just two rewards. 20 min, that is a long time to just make doing an endless mission worthwhile. That... is a long time. It is not 10 min and it is better, it is 20 min and it is better. But, as you said, this isn't the only thing to consider, we also have to make sure it is not too good.

Now the average survival run when you want to stay for "awhile" is 40 min. As an avid Star Chart survival player, I can defend that after that magical 40 min mark stuff gets... interesting (because of exponential enemy level scaling). When you combine this with 25% more spawns and a clusterfudge every 5 min running an extended survival will not be for the faint of heart. Sure this is only Survival, but these concepts apply to all of the mission types. The more I think about it, Endless Fissures are going to be pretty hard. Just imagine Grineer+Nullifiers or Corpus Nullifiers+Corrupted Nullifiers+Bombards sounds like hell. If you are going through hell, you better get rewarded.

Most non-endless missions can be finished in 5-7 min, when you compare that to have to waiting 20 min to get any benefit from doing a endless IN ADDITION TO escalating difficulty, there are plenty of reasons to not run endless.

 

YOU decide to afk 4-spam, not the game. You could play the game as if it were a game or you can make it a chore, it's up to you.

And is Survival the best? I ran a few Spy for leveling and got quite a few relics, but I only ran a few so I may have just gotten good RNG.

 

I'm gonna stop now, I can see this devolving into use yelling at each other.

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15 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

-snip-


Why would I run endless instead of "spamming exterminates"?
Because with your idea it takes one relic to roll 4 rewards in endless, in 40 minutes.
Now true, running through an exterminate might take 5, but how long does finding extra 3 copies of the CORRECT relic take? 
I'm willing to bet more than 40 minutes.
Thus Endless is king again, and that's on top of insane XP gain and noticably better loot.

And no, Spy is a joke for relic farming. You have to successfully hack at least TWO vaults to get ONE relic roll, and that's also not 100% guaranteed afaik.
Compare that to Excavation where you can easily get a relic, two if you're lucky, within 3 extractors. 

Edited by Shifted
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