Dissatisfied with the update

[Xzorn]

#BringBacktheVoid

[DEATHLOK]

I totally forgot cores. I don't get them anymore. Or, if I do, the number is so minuscule that it would take years to collect enough to level something like Vitality.

And before, we had more "waste" we could sell for Ducats. It seems they don't want us getting those Ducats any more.

[Bradmor]

35 minutes ago, DEATHLOK said:

Anyone who claims that it's now "easy to get what you want" hasn't tried to get one of the new rare parts

Deathlok I agree with most of what you said, but this above is not true. The difficult part is to grind the right relic but that was previously the same with the key system, so no changes. Now since you have roughly 4 chances to get something new per mission, technically you get more chances to find what you are looking for, so it is easier and faster.

Another point that you are missing in the this "constructive" feedback (it is constructive even if it feels a bit tainted with rightful anger :P): The purpose of the void.

Previously the end game was the Void with the primes rewards. Now I don't see an end game and I am missing a goal. Why enduring this grind feast if there is no purpose anymore? Grinding is fun if it feels like you are progress toward something. the Raid is not accessible and fun enough to replace the void, and there is only 1 Raid.

Also could someone explain to me what void fissures in void maps means? if a fissure is a gate to the void used by corrupted void mobs then a Void fissure in the void should be the other way around and spawning Corpus or Grinners (meaning no void trace i guess). Unless this fissure is connecting 2 void places? Confusing... 

And finally Why void traces don't drop in regular void missions?

 

[-Sandman]

10 minutes ago, DEATHLOK said:

I totally forgot cores. I don't get them anymore. Or, if I do, the number is so minuscule that it would take years to collect enough to level something like Vitality.

And before, we had more "waste" we could sell for Ducats. It seems they don't want us getting those Ducats any more.

Yeah but now there are more R5 core alerts.

[DEATHLOK]

9 minutes ago, Bradmor said:

Deathlok I agree with most of what you said, but this above is not true. The difficult part is to grind the right relic but that was previously the same with the key system, so no changes. Now since you have roughly 4 chances to get something new per mission, technically you get more chances to find what you are looking for, so it is easier and faster.

Another point that you are missing in the this "constructive" feedback (it is constructive even if it feels a bit tainted with rightful anger :P): The purpose of the void.

No disrespect, but I think this presents opening Void Relics out of context. You have consider the grind leading up to opening a single Void Relic. You cannot discount what it takes to earn 100 Void Traces. Better have a Nekros! And I didn't even factor in the grind required to get the proper type of Void Relic! I propose that it seems easier right now, because people have all these Void Relics from the conversion process. Wait until those are gone, and the grind begins in earnest.

And I am angry. But I have every right to be. And I've done a great job staying civil and NOT showing exactly how angry I am.

[deothor]

I've read all posts and it saddens me..

 

 

Because no matter how valid and well made arguments player would use, I haven't seen any game company going "hmm duh you are right, we'll revert some of those changes that are obviously hurting you and us"

 

 

Which means, those changes are here to stay. Sigh.

[Bradmor]

18 minutes ago, DEATHLOK said:

No disrespect, but I think this presents opening Void Relics out of context. You have consider the grind leading up to opening a single Void Relic. You cannot discount what it takes to earn 100 Void Traces. Better have a Nekros! And I didn't even factor in the grind required to get the proper type of Void Relic! I propose that it seems easier right now, because people have all these Void Relics from the conversion process. Wait until those are gone, and the grind begins in earnest.

And I am angry. But I have every right to be. And I've done a great job staying civil and NOT showing exactly how angry I am.

No disrespect at all and yes you did a good job containing your anger  :)

This thread, and all other threads on the same subject, are good feedback for the Devs. I am pretty sure that someone is panicking at Digital Extremes, because with this "extreme" update (pun intended) they basically created a trauma in the community.... I don't want to be the guy in charge of fixing that.

About the chances of dropping rare items, and based on my own experience, I got about 6 rares in something like 20 missions without using this cumbersome void traces system. The 2 times I upgraded a relic to flawless or so, I got a format. Sounded like a joke, so I gave up upgrading relics. it doesn't worth the effort.

I might be lucky, but technically if we assume that the chances to get a rare prime item per relic are about the same than previously getting a rare from a single key, then technically again you get 4 chances to get a rare per mission now. So yes it is easier, unless they changed the drop rates and reduced them as well to encourage grinding void traces. It is possible, I haven't run the math since I don't know the % of the relics drop tables. We might need to wait for the data miners to do their thing before to get a final answer.

[-Sandman]

51 minutes ago, Bradmor said:

No disrespect at all and yes you did a good job containing your anger  :)

This thread, and all other threads on the same subject, are good feedback for the Devs. I am pretty sure that someone is panicking at Digital Extremes, because with this "extreme" update (pun intended) they basically created a trauma in the community.... I don't want to be the guy in charge of fixing that.

About the chances of dropping rare items, and based on my own experience, I got about 6 rares in something like 20 missions without using this cumbersome void traces system. The 2 times I upgraded a relic to flawless or so, I got a format. Sounded like a joke, so I gave up upgrading relics. it doesn't worth the effort.

I might be lucky, but technically if we assume that the chances to get a rare prime item per relic are about the same than previously getting a rare from a single key, then technically again you get 4 chances to get a rare per mission now. So yes it is easier, unless they changed the drop rates and reduced them as well to encourage grinding void traces. It is possible, I haven't run the math since I don't know the % of the relics drop tables. We might need to wait for the data miners to do their thing before to get a final answer.

Without the numbers, sounds spot on. I envisioned the new system to be same grind in a different format with pros and cons, and that's what it turns out to be. I get the impression they expected alot more buy in because technically the rng is better for farming specific items. The fallout from the collateral damage of the new system seems like something they thought would be more manageable. I suspect that there isn't much panicking at the moment wrt to void 2.0 as it is performing as intended, which is to provide less grind (or at least the impression of), while still providing an avenue to encourage sales (buying of platinum and PA). I am sure we will really start to see how grindy this system can be when Nekros PA comes out. They don't have enough data right now to show it's less profitable, only if that happens they may start to panic. 

The explanations given for the reassignment of the keys however seems to have torn a wider rift in the community though. For me personally, alot of trust has been eroded. 

Edited July 13, 2016 by -Sandman

[Nilgreed]

12 hours ago, TheDefenestrater said:

Void tears:  -snip-

Credits: -snip-

Spot on.

Im not concerned about the market, kavats, or the clumsy, but good looking Star Chart.
Thoose only require minor changes.

The void Fissures however - well you really said everything there is to say.
- id like to add that this new void does the same mistake as the old one (which kept me playing for 3 years - but fissures: 2 hours)
It excludes the rest of the Star Chart and regular Planet missions.
Switching the old challenging, RNG based "Prime acquisition place" with this new dull Nullifier Excavation "Prime acquisition place"
was a -horrible- decision.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Lazarus-Fox

[Awazx]

3 hours ago, DEATHLOK said:

Hey, I like new content. I like change. This is neither of those things. This is a sloppy, poorly-planned and executed mess of an update, released at the worst possible time.

 

[Dynastiew]

I can't agree more, i've been saying the same on reddit, here and on a French video game paper forum, i hope they will quickly change all that :).

[(XBOX)JACK BURT0N LSG]

I stopped playing this when I switched to PC, so I've been out of it for while. I'm trying to make sense of what I'm reading here, is OP saying they made the grind and game balance worse (again lol)? Is it really called void tears? Given the rewards and drop rates last time I played, its a surprisingly appropriate term.  I didn't think the grind and Plat push could get any worse.

[Nilgreed]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)JACK BURT0N LSG said:

I stopped playing this when I switched to PC, so I've been out of it for while. I'm trying to make sense of what I'm reading here, is OP saying they made the grind and game balance worse (again lol)? Is it really called void tears? Given the rewards and drop rates last time I played, its a surprisingly appropriate term.  I didn't think the grind and Plat push could get any worse.

The grind switched from the actual parts to the corresponding relics. A concerning amount of players hasnt realized this yet, due to the "free" relics we were given with the key conversion - which was also pretty sloppy.

So - if you already own the relics you need - you probably can get a complete set in ~1 - 2h. It is effective and fast "farming".
If you dont own the relics - prepare to do excavations for a couple of days.

Also - This whole "old void vs new void" war thats going on everywhere is just a stupid misunderstanding - and a clench of interests.

Some forget one thing: They like the RELIC system, not the FISSURE system.
Vets complain about the FISSURE system beeing dull. And IT IS dull.

Pro-Fissure: "I dont mind that fissure thing. Its fast and i get what i want - my reward > gameplay"
Pro-Old-Void: "I dont really need primes anymore, so - gameplay > my reward"

Edited July 13, 2016 by Lazarus-Fox

[Bradmor]

5 minutes ago, Lazarus-Fox said:

The grind switched from the actual parts to the corresponding relics. A concerning amount of players hasnt realized this yet, due to the "free" relics we were given with the key conversion - which was also pretty sloppy.

So - if you already own the relics you need - you probably can get a complete set in ~1 - 2h. It is effective and fast "farming".
If you dont own the relics - prepare to do excavations for a couple of days.

Not sure to follow you here. What difference do you make with acquiring Keys in the old system. That was the same issue and the same grind since you needed specific keys for specific rewards. No that part didn't change. 

What changed is that we now consume 4 relics/keys per mission, so we will need 4 times more relics to get what we want and so 4 times more grind to do so. But to understand that you need to see the relic system as a community system and not as a player system.

[Nilgreed]

18 minutes ago, Bradmor said:

Not sure to follow you here. What difference do you make with acquiring Keys in the old system. That was the same issue and the same grind since you needed specific keys for specific rewards. No that part didn't change. 

What changed is that we now consume 4 relics/keys per mission, so we will need 4 times more relics to get what we want and so 4 times more grind to do so. But to understand that you need to see the relic system as a community system and not as a player system.

Yes, my bad - this is a more accurate description.
Kinda - we dont need as much keys/relics as before to get what we want - per player (but per squad)

I was originally implying that primes arent the actual grind anymore, since you can farm pretty effective and fast for a specific part.
- IF everyone has the corresponding relic. - ranked up in the best case. Which adds another layer of grind.
 

Edited July 13, 2016 by Lazarus-Fox

[SaucyTuckermax]

16 hours ago, TheDefenestrater said:

-snip-

honestly only read about half of what you said but I agree with all of it. this update was bad and void changes probably the worst of it.

[xProdergy]

The thing's that have vexed me about this update are... Void 2.0, New star map (Just a recreate of the much older star map), buff of nullifier's which were already annoying enough and fissures aka cabbages.

The thing's i found decent about the update are... The new market looks decent, and erm that's it.

[DEATHLOK]

Now, I feel even more betrayed, agonizing over how badly they've hurt the community with this new nerf to Credit awards in U18.

The other day, I gave most of my credits to support research at our Dojo. Figured I'd earn it back quickly enough. I didn't know about the nerf.

Played a bit, including all the Syndicate missions available to me, only to find I'm earning almost nothing. They've nerfed Credits so hard I'm broke again after crafting a couple resources.

What are Credits to DE? Why isn't the sale of Platinum enough? How much money do they need?

Seriously, Digital Extremes, HOW MUCH MONEY DO YOU REALLY NEED?

Edited July 14, 2016 by DEATHLOK

[VOZ.LucasRamos]

Credits :(

[Clowee]

I read the wall of text.

OP for President plz.

[Voltage]

On July 13, 2016 at 10:53 AM, LuckyCharm said:

@DEATHLOK I agree with pretty much all of it. Would also like to add that the diversity of mission choices seem to be way down since there doesn't currently seem to be a way to turn off Syndicate missions, or Nightmare mode etc. Makes things feel rather rushed

That and the current void fissure system forces groups to use a relic each or get no drops for anyone who didn't use one. So it's 4 relics : 1 item in most cases so you're wasting 3 keys out of every 4 and receiving nothing for the trouble of collecting them. 

(and as for the old void vs new void.. I used to get 10-15 fusion cores per defence run on top of all the ducat material when I ran those.. currently you get no cores so you have to do sorties or a whole lot of excavation grind to make up what you used to have)

in my opinion, cores are never an issue. I have maxed all my primed mods solely from sortie cores. BUT credits. o lord credits. we won't go there with this update :(

[tongdaddy]

On 7/13/2016 at 10:36 AM, DEATHLOK said:

U18 doesn't come across as they had a good idea, but rushed it. It comes across as they had some really bad ideas and rushed them.

My exact words describing the update to a friend was "Bad ideas, poorly implemented" and told them I can not currently recommend Warframe.

Edited July 16, 2016 by tongdaddy

[Necrius]

@DEATHLOKI agree with everything you said, but... I got so much desired Carrier Carapace on first try with new relic system, so I'm enjoying general idea of relics, but hate current whack-a-mole implementation.

Edited July 16, 2016 by Necrius

[----Fenrir----]

On 13.7.2016 at 8:38 PM, Bradmor said:

Not sure to follow you here. What difference do you make with acquiring Keys in the old system. That was the same issue and the same grind since you needed specific keys for specific rewards. No that part didn't change.

In the old systems only a single key was required to run a Void mission. For most longer missions (excluding T3 Survival) as well as for all T1 or T2 mission you could basically always find a squad in the recruitment chat without needing to have a key. That is gone now. The option to do a keyshare to get 4 runs out of a single key is gone as well.

Now everyone needs a relic, and every relic gives only a single item. No more 1 hour+ survival or interception runs and getting multiple rewards with only a single key. For most non-solo player that probably translates into spending around 5 times more time farming for relics compared to the old Void system and farming for keys.

[-HitZ-]

The ones saying that credit nerf is ok and there is nothing to complain about are casuals or veteran players sitting on a pile of milions credits. The change doesn't affect you, however if the system doesn't change, sooner or later it will bleed you dry, because you wont be able to sustain your credits. Ofcourse unless you are sleeping in hieracon. If I am just starting the game at the moment, I will be disgusted and probably quit, it doesn't make any sense to put the players behind so many grind walls. 

Edited July 16, 2016 by -HitZ-