Prime Time #126: Vandal Reaction Poll

[Rhekemi]

9 minutes ago, NN13 said:

Your whole argument depends on the fact that CBT was a once in a lifetime event and therefore those gifts should not return, right?

So, following your logic, since each anniversary is unique as well as once in a lifetime event, please explain to me as to why Dex Furis was released on 2nd Anninversary?

Since, you say that players who played at that time should be valued, why should I and others who were present during 1st anniversary not enjoy similar treatment a CBT players?

Excellent point, but isn't this the problem Steve explained he's agonized over?

I watched the video and he clearly stated his regrets, how he feels torn over not being able to give players a chance at CB and Founder exclusives, and he's expressed his feelings that he never wants to do them again.

The Dex Anniversary weapons seem to fall in line with that: they don't want to repeat the problems of the Vandal or the Founder packs.

That is the only logical explanation I have for why they're not exclusive.

Edited July 16, 2016 by Rhekemi

[CrudShuzKong]

1 minute ago, A1m3r said:

No, just no. Why do you want to make closed beta players to look like standard (draco) player? I mean, I'm early open beta player.. didn't even manage to earn Snipetron Vandal when there was an event, and I don't feel like it was right from you, DE, to put "marker" of being veteran to public within recent sortie.. So what will be next, all old emblems like Operation Sling-Stone? Last marker of being veteran? Why can't you, DE, highlight your old players in some way, instead you "steal" their veteran markers? Why can't they feel special? Bad things are happening right now...

I think that weapons and thus mastery was a "bad" kind of reward for veterans to be noticed by... Syandanas, armor or sigils would be much better imo.

I understand that you want to have your exclusive stuff, but the collector in me wants it too :)

[NN13]

1 minute ago, Rhekemi said:

Excellent point, but isn't this the problem Steve explained he's agonized over?

I watched the video and he clearly stated his regrets, how he feels torn over not being able to give players a chance at CB and Founder exclusives, and he's expressed his feelings that he never wants to do them again.

The Dex Anniversary weapons seem to fall in line with that: they don't want to repeat the problems of the Vandal or the Founder packs.

That is the only logical explanation I have for why they're not exclusive.

Then just make at least Branton Vandal available. Since it is somewhat similar to the anniversary situation. Simple fix.

I would be glad if they brought back Lato Vandal as well, but if they don't, I do not mind.

[Lanadra]

1 minute ago, Rhekemi said:

Excellent point, but isn't this the problem Steve explained he's agonized over?

I watched the video and he clearly stated his regrets, how he feels torn over not being able to give players a chance at CB and Founder exclusives, and he's expressed his feelings that he never wants to do them again.

The Dex Anniversary weapons seem to fall in line with that: they don't want to repeat the problems of the Vandal or the Founder packs.

That is the only logical explanation I have for why they're not exclusive.

While his revelation is good, it unfortunately doesn't make the existing exclusive problems go away, I think the DE staff knows damn well Founder exclusives will never, ever stop being brought up.

No amount of cosmetic or gear alternatives will make that go away.

[(XBOX)x Deathcraft x]

I'd like to see a Kohm Vandal.

[NN13]

Just now, Artorius-Alter said:

While his revelation is good, it unfortunately doesn't make the existing exclusive problems go away, I think the DE staff knows damn well Founder exclusives will never, ever stop being brought up.

No amount of cosmetic or gear alternatives will make that go away.

Where on earth did this argument turn to Founder's item?

Founder's items are totally on a whole different level. Founder's are the people who took a risk and used money on a game which did not even know if it would survive.

CBT players were just a few lucky people who wither knew about the game a bit earlier or were lucky enough to get CBT access.There are numerous of players who were not that lucky. In fact, there even might be players who are more dedicated to the game than many CBT players.

[IceColdHawk]

3 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

Because how dare I enjoy the feeling of having something unique, exclusive or limited in number.

Well, you know, i felt the same, until my precious event weapons got recycled. And since i can't consider those 2 vandals on founder levels, i don't see why you deserve to be more special than snipetron vandal or any other event gun owners. That's the problem here. I could agree with you if we were back in 2013-2014 though. But you said you won't get butthurt anyway if they get returned so i guess it's not too much of a deal for you, eh? I just hope DE will do the right decision.

10 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

Not only toxic and antagonizing, but also toxic and antagonizing to a Com Mod.

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Lanadra]

2 minutes ago, NN13 said:

Where on earth did this argument turn to Founder's item?

Founder's items are totally on a whole different level. Founder's are the people who took a risk and used money on a game which did not even know if it would survive.

CBT players were just a few lucky people who wither knew about the game a bit earlier or were lucky enough to get CBT access.There are numerous of players who were not that lucky. In fact, there even might be players who are more dedicated to the game than many CBT players.

Read the post I quoted, Steve said in the Prime Time episode that his regret concerns things like Vandal weapons -and- Founder items also, that is what my post is based on.

Cold hard reality of today is, the founders gifts should have been cosmetics, skins, and something tells me that they would have been that in the current time, instead they are game play influencing, MR giving, superior pieces of gear compared to their regular versions.

Edited July 16, 2016 by Artorius-Alter

[Rhekemi]

11 minutes ago, Artorius-Alter said:

While his revelation is good, it unfortunately doesn't make the existing exclusive problems go away, I think the DE staff knows damn well Founder exclusives will never, ever stop being brought up.

No amount of cosmetic or gear alternatives will make that go away.

They know this. We know this.

But what would you have them do?

In the video, Steve's not lying when he expresses how torn he is over wanting to give the players who have a solid record of contributions and gameplay, but started after CB and Founders' packs. Neither is he lying when he says he doesn't want to betray the people who are CBs and Founders.

They've even decided to give us an open topic, to listen to what we have to say about it. (But also said there is no promise or guarantee to re-release anything.)

I don't want, or need the Vandals, but I appreciate the chance to say how I felt about it.

I don't know what they should do, only what I'd do: I wouldn't re-release Vandals to the public, only CBs who missed their chance or passed. Founder packs? Never. The game cannot be re-founded, but if you played as a Closed Beta, you should get another chance because you played as a Closed Beta--you just didn't buy the weapon for the credits. This was actually expressed by an actual Closed Beta player in the chat in the video Rebecca linked (He didn't know he could have bought them).

DE would have gifted all CB players the weapon, but they didn't have a gifting or inbox system.

The Closed Beta players are entitled to the Vandals, in that light.

The rest of us are not--we didn't play Closed Beta. 

It doesn't make CB or Founders better than us, it's just the fairest, most fact-based way to look at the issue. 

After that, DE's only recourse is to make sure this never happens again.

Edited July 16, 2016 by Rhekemi

[SolaireTheSunWalker]

11 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Event weapons are rewards for actually doing work, unlike getting a gift for simply being there.

Yet event weapons returned, which 'kinda throws that reward away'.

If people who completed events didn't get anything when event weapons were returned, why should CB players?

CB wasn't an event though like other vandal weapons and those vandal weapons were said to come back at any time unlike the lato vandal being a gift for *only* CB testers from DE. Like I said I don't mind it coming back but if that gift is going to be given to all players now CB players should at least receive a cosmetic instead 

[CrudShuzKong]

3 minutes ago, NN13 said:

CBT players were just a few lucky people who wither knew about the game a bit earlier or were lucky enough to get CBT access.There are numerous of players who were not that lucky. In fact, there even might be players who are more dedicated to the game than many CBT players.

I would be in that category, but i dont mind the 2 vandals too much. yes they would complete my collection a bit more, but if i  cant have them then i cant have them.

I am a 1st day open beta player, so i really narrowly missed out on all this, but i did miss out. I am a very active community member for quite a while now and i dare say that i contributed more then some of the foudners did, but i'm not butthurt about it...

[Lanadra]

5 minutes ago, Rhekemi said:

They know this. We know this.

But what would you have them do?

In the video, Steve's not lying when he expresses how torn he is over wanting to give the players who have a solid record of contributions and gameplay, but started after CB and Founders' packs. Neither is he lying when he says he doesn't want to betray the people who are CBs and Founders.

They've even decided to give us an open topic, to listen to what we have to say about it. (But also said there is no promise or guarantee to re-release anything.)

I don't want, or need the Vandals, but I appreciate the chance to say how I felt about it.

I don't know what they should do, only what I'd do: I wouldn't re-release Vandals to the public, only CBs who missed their chance or passed. Founder packs? Never. The game cannot be re-founded, but if you played as a Closed Beta, you should get another chance because you played as a Closed Beta--you just didn't buy the weapon for the credits. This was actually expressed by an actual Closed Beta player in the chat in the video Rebecca linked.

DE would have gifted all CB players the weapon, but they didn't have a gifting or inbox system.

The Closed Beta players are entitled to the Vandals, in that light.

The rest of us are not--we didn't play Closed Beta. 

It doesn't make CB or Founders better than us, it's just the fairest, most fact-based way to look at the issue. 

After that, DE's only recourse is to make sure this never happens again.

Personally I feel they could at the very least poll the Hunter and up Founders on whether or not they would find it acceptable to see these items re-released, a poll for -them- only, let democracy then take it's course, if the majority is comparable to this poll in not minding it, then re-release it, if the poll makes it very clear a large majority doesn't want it, show it to the rest of us and -then- state how they can't break their promise.

First poll if the situation may be different before stating with finality that they stand by their ''it'll never return'', it has been years now and I too have seen plenty of Master/Grand Masters state they wouldn't at all mind their items becoming available.

Edited July 16, 2016 by Artorius-Alter

[DeMonkey]

2 minutes ago, SolaireTheSunWalker said:

CB wasn't an event though like other vandal weapons and those vandal weapons were said to come back at any time unlike the lato vandal being a gift for *only* CB testers from DE. Like I said I don't mind it coming back but if that gift is going to be given to all players now CB players should at least receive a cosmetic instead 

Could you find a quote for me saying that Lato Vandal is *only* for CB testers? I'm sorry, but I see people saying that DE said Lato V and Braton V weren't coming back, but I have yet to see any proof.

And you're right, CB wasn't an event. It was a time period. Imo if anyone should be get compensation due to a returning item it's the people who put work into an event, rather than simply logging in at a certain point in time. Just my opinion of course.

[Rhekemi]

6 minutes ago, Artorius-Alter said:

Personally I feel they could at the very least poll the Hunter and up Founders on whether or not they would find it acceptable to see these items re-released, a poll for -them- only, let democracy then take it's course, if the majority is comparable to this poll in not minding it, then re-release it, if the poll makes it very clear a large majority doesn't want it, show it to the rest of us and -then- state how they can't break their promise.

First poll if the situation may be different before stating with finality that they stand by their ''it'll never return''.

As long as they poll just the Founders, I wouldn't mind. Then it wouldn't be anybody's business but y'all's.

That said, I still honestly think what you donated/paid at the time dictated your thank you reward. You still can't go back to re-found the game. That's tough, but it's true. (I do think everyone who bought a level of pack should be in the DC, though.)

I honestly hope DE never bends on the Founders' packs due to feedback, but time will tell.

I think DE's problem is they really do want to find a way to please everyone. Problem is, in life you can't do that. Life is tough. Not even being snarky or an a**. Life is tough, and we try to be as fair to each other as possible. I think DE has tried, and is trying, to be fair.

Edited July 16, 2016 by Rhekemi

[Lanadra]

2 minutes ago, Rhekemi said:

As long as they poll just the Founders, I wouldn't mind. Then it wouldn't be anybody's business but y'all's.

That said, I still honestly think what you donated/paid at the time dictated your thank you reward. You still can't go back to re-found the game. That's tough, but it's true.

I honestly hope DE never bends on the Founders' packs due to feedback, but time will tell.

I think DE's problem is they really do want to find a way to please everyone. Problem is, in life you can't do that. Life is tough. Not even being snarky or an a**. Life is tough, and we try to be as fair to each other as possible. I think DE has tried, and is trying, to be fair.

Personally I don't see it as ''re-founding'', when I say re-release, I don't mean having another round of people being able to become founders, I generally mean finally releasing Excalibur Prime and the two weapons into the general drop tables.

They've been exclusive for years and as I said, it's still meaningful, superior gear, upgrades that should be available, that too was a mistake, a problem they created, they very consciously buffed these items while knowing they'd never be available again, they opened another can of worms with that, they made previously just swag items into actually viable upgrades to their non-prime versions, I objected to that back when they did it and still do now.

[markus230]

10 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Could you find a quote for me saying that Lato Vandal is *only* for CB testers? I'm sorry, but I see people saying that DE said Lato V and Braton V weren't coming back, but I have yet to see any proof.

And you're right, CB wasn't an event. It was a time period. Imo if anyone should be get compensation due to a returning item it's the people who put work into an event, rather than simply logging in at a certain point in time. Just my opinion of course.

Im on mobile so its quite hard to navigate forums but someone posted DE's promise few pages back I think

[DeMonkey]

Just now, markus230 said:

Im on mobile so its quite hard to navigate forums but someone posted DE's promise few pages back I think

Ah, I'm sure you can understand why I may not be too enthused about trawling through all the comments. I'll have a look though.

[SolaireTheSunWalker]

15 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Could you find a quote for me saying that Lato Vandal is *only* for CB testers? I'm sorry, but I see people saying that DE said Lato V and Braton V weren't coming back, but I have yet to see any proof.

And you're right, CB wasn't an event. It was a time period. Imo if anyone should be get compensation due to a returning item it's the people who put work into an event, rather than simply logging in at a certain point in time. Just my opinion of course.

it's on the wiki page lol. I believe on dev streams they have said braton and snipertron weren't ever coming back but destroyed that promise. It's why I said at the very least if the lato vandal was a gift for CB testers but has the chance to come out for everyone CB testers should get a really cool looking cosmetic, this whole topic about them coming back is because mastery it's win-win 

[-FV-Metheria]

Yes, IF you give the beta peeps some new cosmetic reward such as a special Syandana. 

[Cicero409]

Honestly i think the solution to the problem is for DE to make a weapon that was a favorite of the players in warframe and just make an event version of it. that way people would actually use the weapon after leveling it up and remember it and use it from time to time. Like Furax wraith, Vulkar wraith(almost forgot about it), latron wraith, machete wraith, quanta vandal AND Prova vandal are mostly forgotten. Most people didn't use the original version of these weapons and if they did at most they did it for the mastery points. While i hate to say for these weapons to have an event version, they would be popular to the mass, for example: soma and dare i say...the boltor. both were extremely popular weapons and even more popular with the prime counterparts. Braton Vandal and Lato vandal are popular among the veterans as trophies because the base version of those weapons are what the players started with in the beginning of the game before the tutorial got redesigned. Anyways my point is if you haven't gotten it is, DE should make an event weapon of a existing weapon that is favorited by the mass since it is memorable and they have attachment to that one weapon.

[Rhekemi]

7 minutes ago, Artorius-Alter said:

Personally I don't see it as ''re-founding'', when I say re-release, I don't mean having another round of people being able to become founders, I generally mean finally releasing Excalibur Prime and the two weapons into the general drop tables.

They've been exclusive for years and as I said, it's still meaningful, superior gear, upgrades that should be available, that too was a mistake, a problem they created, they very consciously buffed these items while knowing they'd never be available again, they opened another can of worms with that, they made previously just swag items into actually viable upgrades to their non-prime versions, I objected to that back when they did it and still do now.

Add it to the drop tables for whom? Disciples and Hunters? Or ... everyone? 

I'm against it either way. 

Everyone is not a Founder.

Disciples and Hunters received the rewards outlined when they paid/donated.

A poll among you (founders) could happen, though.

[ChaoSoldier1986]

38 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

Yes. Because how dare I enjoy the feeling of having something unique, exclusive or limited in number.

How dare I enjoy still having the original Pokemon Red and Blue games with a still working gray-brick gameboy. You can't get them anymore, but how dare I enjoy having them when others who never had the chance to get them don't have them.

How dare I enjoy having some of the limited run Warframe collectors statues that were sold on the website. There weren't enough made for everyone in the world to get one, so how dare I enjoy having one. 

 

I should just leave because how dare I enjoy having something limited or exclusive.

 

No, I think I'll stay. Thanks.

 

_{This post is brought to you by Sardonic™}

Wow talk about a Strawman comparsion, you know since we are on PC you ever heard of Emulators? It lets you play games from ages past on your PC. Also Lugging around the Old Brick Gameboy will get you laughed out of the room, I know I still have mine back when I was a child, still works too after the hundreds of drops it endure versus the DS that snapped in two after one.

Also I love how only my posts were deleted cementing the fact that I will never be a valued customer compared to the people that got here year 1. Whats that saying goes? I think it was a Game of Thrones quote: Never Cut off a Liar's Tongue, it only proves you're afraid of what they have to say. So unless you call up someone with DE Admin in their name, I'm not gonna hush up. DE caused this Bloodbath and they have nobody to blame but themselves.

[Ikusias]

I've skimmed a good portion of the discussion and honestly, i'd like:

- to see a rerelease of the Braton Vandal as it was an open beta weapon altough it was buyable only for a limited window of time;

- that the lato vandal remains a "Closed Beta Only" memento as it was a present to those, founders and not, that pioneered the game in its infancy and contended with its early bugs and problems, as a player I can respect that and believe it should mantain it's meaning;

- I'd love to see a repeat of the original events that marked the lore of the game, maibe rewamped to be in line with current gameplay.

[DeMonkey]

5 minutes ago, SolaireTheSunWalker said:

it's on the wiki page lol. I believe on dev streams they have said braton and snipertron weren't ever coming back but destroyed that promise. It's why I said at the very least if the lato vandal was a gift for CB testers but has the chance to come out for everyone CB testers should get a really cool looking cosmetic, this whole topic about them coming back is because mastery it's win-win 

Dude. The Wikia... The thing anyone can edit. That's not proof.

I did however find the comment from Rebecca stating that they are exclusive, so there's that.

I personally still disagree that CB players should get a cosmetic when no one got anything when event weapons were returned despite requiring effort to get, however since it doesn't effect me in the slightest I am going to drop it.

[MagPrime]

9 minutes ago, SolaireTheSunWalker said:

it's on the wiki page lol. I believe on dev streams they have said braton and snipertron weren't ever coming back but destroyed that promise. It's why I said at the very least if the lato vandal was a gift for CB testers but has the chance to come out for everyone CB testers should get a really cool looking cosmetic, this whole topic about them coming back is because mastery it's win-win 

Ehhh, due to the nature of wiki's as a whole, I'm not 100% confident in the validity of such a statement.

anything on there is open to interpretation from the person making the post and the information can be edited by just about any one with an account.

1 minute ago, ChaoSoldier1986 said:

Wow talk about a Strawman comparsion, you know since we are on PC you ever heard of Emulators? It lets you play games from ages past on your PC. Also Lugging around the Old Brick Gameboy will get you laughed out of the room, I know I still have mine back when I was a child, still works too after the hundreds of drops it endure versus the DS that snapped in two after one.

Also I love how only my posts were deleted cementing the fact that I will never be a valued customer compared to the people that got here year 1. Whats that saying goes? I think it was a Game of Thrones quote: Never Cut off a Liar's Tongue, it only proves you're afraid of what they have to say. So unless you call up someone with DE Admin in their name, I'm not gonna hush up. DE caused this Bloodbath and they have nobody to blame but themselves.

• Devbashing
• Toxicity
• Clearly stating they wont stop aforementioned behaviour

Yeah, this'll end well for you.