Uselessness of relic refinement and DE's RNGesus laughing in my face

[-10no-MipMioPin]

So i refined an AXI n2 relic up to it's best, and i didn't see and drastical changes in the drop probabilities. Also, i don't see any reasons to refine anything in this new drop system, because rather often you are facing DE's RNG at it's full power. 

[NightBlitz]

you'll face rng no matter what as long as its a F2P game, dont complain, atleast you can influence it a bit

[Praxxor]

I maxed around 7 relics so far, got exactly what I wanted in 5 of them (the rarest tier) 3 of those were Vauban parts

If you look at statistics that people gathered (they are all on the wiki), the rare parts have a 2% chance to drop from unrefined relics, however, they get a 10% chance to drop from the maxed relics, if you compare that to old T3survival Rot C items that had 5.5% drop chance every 20 minutes (and T3Sur had the most sought-after items because of that) it's actually not bad in comparison IMO.

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

That is however still kind of ridiculous, considering with such low chances that even refining to a top tier relic will give you something like a Forma BP. While I'm all for the new system, not having given the drop % a look at makes me sad

[Airwolfen]

Well refining does not guarantee the reward in any way. It simply boosts the rare drop chance from 2 to 10%.

Still a respectable increase though.

[Apocalypsus69]

I always get better rewards from relics without refinement , that´s sad but true :(

[ZetraThorn]

If you are hoping that as soon as you refine a relic you would get exactly what you want then I'm not surprised.

Do you know how probability theory works? I refined around 9 relics to get the part I wanted.

Spoiler

Be carefull with dev bashing and overall saltiness. This will not yield any results and only ends up in locked thread.

 

[artemisfortune]

Don't forget that if you have a premade with 4 refined to max, you have a 40% chance of getting that drop.

[Soulden]

Enjoying the new system so far, even tho I have barely use it.

But I do have to agree on one thing.

Why in the world would a fully upgraded Relic still has any chance of Forma?...at that point, it closely defeats the purpose of the new system.

I'm fine with chance of Forma still being present up to Flawless, after all, there is still players that want their Forma, and will not invest too many Traces, if any, in order to secure Forma for themselves.

[artemisfortune]

1 hour ago, Souldend78 said:

Enjoying the new system so far, even tho I have barely use it.

But I do have to agree on one thing.

Why in the world would a fully upgraded Relic still has any chance of Forma?...at that point, it closely defeats the purpose of the new system.

I'm fine with chance of Forma still being present up to Flawless, after all, there is still players that want their Forma, and will not invest too many Traces, if any, in order to secure Forma for themselves.

Part of the point of the new system is to promote teamwork. Like I said, 40% chance to get the rarest part if you have a premade with 4 refined up to max.

Edit: When I say teamwork, I mean not soloing.

Edited July 19, 2016 by JSharpie

[Airwolfen]

3 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

Don't forget that if you have a premade with 4 refined to max, you have a 40% chance of getting that drop.

Far from how chance calculations work, but sure, lets go with it

[-10no-MipMioPin]

5 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

Don't forget that if you have a premade with 4 refined to max, you have a 40% chance of getting that drop.

not even close.  

[artemisfortune]

1 hour ago, Airwolfen said:

Far from how chance calculations work, but sure, lets go with it

Actually, not in this case.

10% chance per person with all the same max levels of the same Relic. I believe it's called compound percentages but it's been awhile since I was in high school. It's one of those rare cases where 10% + 10% + 10% + 10% = 40%. It's not 10% of 10%, so each person has a 10% chance, and if you have 4 people, it's a 40% chance.

Edit: I think, It makes sense in my head but I'm very tired and can't sleep.

Edit Edit: Right? It's 0.1 * 4 which equals 0.4.

Edited July 19, 2016 by JSharpie

[(PSN)CrispyNipill]

12 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

Actually, not in this case.

10% chance per person with all the same max levels of the same Relic. I believe it's called compound percentages but it's been awhile since I was in high school. It's one of those rare cases where 10% + 10% + 10% + 10% = 40%. It's not 10% of 10%, so each person has a 10% chance, and if you have 4 people, it's a 40% chance.

Edit: I think, It makes sense in my head but I'm very tired and can't sleep.

Edit Edit: Right? It's 0.1 * 4 which equals 0.4.

umm, its 40% / 400%, which is still 10%, L2math pls

[artemisfortune]

58 minutes ago, (PS4)CrispyNipill said:

umm, its 40% / 400%, which is still 10%, L2math pls

But they're independent events, right? So it's 10% of 100% four times.

[Redeye]

Just now, JSharpie said:

But they're independent events, right? So it's 10% of 100% four times.

Following that logic, if I have 4 coins and launch them in the air, there's a 200% chance that I'll get one to land on one particular side. .5*4 = 2. Which doesn't make sense in terms of probabilities.

[CrudShuzKong]

so you increased 1 relic to radiant tier and expected a drop to happen?

thats.... not likely.

[EyeLaikCheez]

1 hour ago, Praxxor said:

I maxed around 7 relics so far, got exactly what I wanted in 5 of them (the rarest tier) 3 of those were Vauban parts

If you look at statistics that people gathered (they are all on the wiki), the rare parts have a 2% chance to drop from unrefined relics, however, they get a 10% chance to drop from the maxed relics, if you compare that to old T3survival Rot C items that had 5.5% drop chance every 20 minutes (and T3Sur had the most sought-after items because of that) it's actually not bad in comparison IMO.

Before: 5.5% chance without "refining" Now: 2% chance without "refining"

So... this update reduced the grind...?

[CrudShuzKong]

1 minute ago, EyeLaikCheez said:

Before: 5.5% chance without "refining" Now: 2% chance without "refining"

So... this update reduced the grind...?

yes because you get 4 chances of the drop per run and refinement lifts it (supposedly) to 10%

[Praxxor]

1 minute ago, EyeLaikCheez said:

Before: 5.5% chance without "refining" Now: 2% chance without "refining"

So... this update reduced the grind...?

5.5% chance in 20 minutes vs 2% chance in 2 minutes

[Azrael]

24 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

Actually, not in this case.

10% chance per person with all the same max levels of the same Relic. I believe it's called compound percentages but it's been awhile since I was in high school. It's one of those rare cases where 10% + 10% + 10% + 10% = 40%. It's not 10% of 10%, so each person has a 10% chance, and if you have 4 people, it's a 40% chance.

No. This is how it works. One refined relic gives a 10% chance of a rare part, which means a 90% chance of not getting one. The chance of not getting a rare part with 4 radiant relics is .9*.9*.9*.9 = .9^4 = 65.61%, so the chance of getting at least one rare part with 4 radiant relics is 1 - 0.6561 = 0.3439 or 34.39%

So with 4 radiant relics you have a 34.39% chance of getting at least one rare part.

[Airwolfen]

9 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

But they're independent events, right? So it's 10% of 100% four times.

Look at it from the common drop side.at max refinement the chance is 50%. so that 4 times... 200% chance for common drops :O

or 360% chance for everything but rare :O

I get what you mean but it is not 40% over 100% because the other rewards scale the same way.

[CrudShuzKong]

Guys please quit torturing mathematics, i'll provide a detailed explanation if you want, but it will take some time (its not that straightforward)

[Airwolfen]

1 minute ago, CrudShuzKong said:

Guys please quit torturing mathematics, i'll provide a detailed explanation if you want, but it will take some time (its not that straightforward)

But torturing math is fun :(

[Azrael]

2 minutes ago, CrudShuzKong said:

Guys please quit torturing mathematics, i'll provide a detailed explanation if you want, but it will take some time (its not that straightforward)

Not really. What I posted is exactly correct. It might not be the most clear explanation, but at least it's not wrong...   :)