Specters of the Rail Explained (Why it is not like the other updates)

[noveltyhero]

So I see many posts of people getting bored fast after this update or nobody really basically repeating that cycle that all the other updates did and pull you back into the game for a while. I'm going to explain why that is and how you should treat this update because even vets aren't really pulled back into this update the way we expected to be.

Note that I will ignore bugs and exploits because they are not meant to be there.

-I will also ignore in this post, other changes (i.e to AW)

 

Update is lackluster?

Well, yes in terms of new content, it most certainly is. In terms of cutting off a tumor that was the horrific keyshare and basically piggy backing on whatever good willed host will have you. The reason you may feel that this update is lackluster it is because of that, because there isn't any new content. Does it make it a bad update? No, but neither does it make it a good one, it is simply a necessary update.

This update would've came sooner or later and it is as simple as you feel gameplay changes, as in there are none. DE has worked hard to change what is behind the curtains,  you won't really notice the difference right now, but maybe when a new PA (or Nekros) comes out you will. You will notice how easy it is to find out where to get your stuff, how easy it is to know exactly what you're doing (get those relics charged up, full squad etc.).

 

But it's still RNG!

Yes, DE made that very clear before the update, it is still RNG but now you can affect, now you know your odds and you can change them. It is not only easier to get rarer stuff it is easier to get the exact component you want. The old void was terrible, it truly nullified other tilesets, just as beautiful. Now my personal favorite tilesets are the void but that doesn't mean I only want to play those. This update alleviated many issues the starchart and void farming was beginning to have rotting in its core.

This game lives and breathes by RNG, tilesets are made by RNG for crying out loud. I for one am very happy with the way they did it, sure its a rough diamond, but it is still a diamond that can and will be refined.

 

My endless modes, gone!

Again, DE made it very clear they will add in the endless modes and assassination will be coming later down the line right here:

"Please note that Void Fissures will not be available for Assassinate and endless mission types - excluding Survival - for Launch. Further mission support will be coming shortly."

So, I guess just wait, they aren't gotten rid of but they are probably thinking of how reward distribution goes and maybe, just maybe DE will make them better than before as well. They may make it so the chances of a rare drop increases the further along you go, which I expect to happen at this point.

 

TL;DR

This update did not kill the game, or playerbase. It simply did not provide new content, however in did improve foundations of the game which means that new content in the future will be even better in terms of acquisition, which was the problem 60-90% of the time. It simply provided the tools to the player to make void farming something you have more control over and make it less antagonizing to other content in the game. Endless modes will come in a future update, possibly better than before.

 

What do you guys think? I'm not really meta complaining, I understand some people find this update lacking but really it was a necessary step forward. Remember, bugs will get fixed and system will only improve.

[AEP8FlyBoy]

I agree. There wasn't alot of "new" content per-say in the SotR update. But you're right when you say it was just providing a foundation for future content additions and major reworks. They just had to get this stuff out first.

Huge reworks of systems are coming, and I think of few of them are how Damage works against enemies, the enemies and their scaling, and how endless missions are rewarded, or skewed with time in-mission, instead of a flat (A,A,B,C) drop rate that never changes.

I've seen quite a bit of negative feedback on this update, but people seem to forget that this is only the second out of three parts to U19, and I can't wait for The War Within. I just wish people would stop jumping to conclusions about what DE is thinking and just relish in the fact they are updating the game at all. They don't have to do anything for us, but they always look to us for feedback (whether it be positive or negative, as long as it's constructive.)

So... I think all in all, this update was great. It just didn't introduce a lot of new things to do. I myself blazed through the Junctions in the first few days after release. So there is basically nothing left for me to do. But I always find myself coming back, regardless of that fact. Because I love helping new players out, and I also love playing with friends.

Sure it can get monotonous, but playing with good friends relieves a lot of that feeling. No two runs are the same, when you play with someone with a great sense of humor. :D

[Cyborg-Rox]

I couldn't agree more. Every time I see another "This update killed the game" topic I just lose a bit more faith in this community, because so few of them can tell the difference between a genuinely necessary and understandable update and what they alone like and want. This applies to the Starchart, Relic system, and Archwing changes.

Also, people like to forget that this isn't Update 19. It's a third of it, and the biggest part is yet to come, which I can guarantee will refine a lot of SotR's additions.

[SilvaDreams]

4 minutes ago, Cyborg-Rox said:

I couldn't agree more. Every time I see another "This update killed the game" topic I just lose a bit more faith in this community, because so few of them can tell the difference between a genuinely necessary and understandable update and what they alone like and want. This applies to the Starchart, Relic system, and Archwing changes.

Also, people like to forget that this isn't Update 19. It's a third of it, and the biggest part is yet to come, which I can guarantee will refine a lot of SotR's additions.

Honestly every time I see one of those I pray they do leave for good so we'll have one less potentially toxic person tainting the waters.

[Airwolfen]

Actually got quite hooked in again though. Getting the last of the prime gear I need. And that is extremely nice compared to how much I was against it with the void drop system.

I do believe that the void will become meaningful to run again in some way though. Tileset is so good looking and there needs to be something meaningful behind that level of content. Just a lot more accessible without the need for keys.

Both lunaro and SotR are basically the maintenance parts of U19 and to make sure the update downtime was not multiple months.

[BBOTAA]

I don't really agree with your opinions except 1 or 2 points..

 I like the starchart rework besides being a conglomerade off bugs when was released.

The new system intruduced still needs work, if it stays like this, i won't be really playing it that much, it motivates all kinds of situations to break team work, in terms of gameplay not really amazing,spawning system amazing to say the least.... And not really those many options on missions choice, like was stated before release,even after this hotfix not enough on my opinion.  No way to verify relics between players wich should be intruduced really soon. So lets say the system is still growing....to be soft on the matter.

About the Rng, it's the same altough now you burn trough chances much faster. Wich is a bad thing imo,because the difficulty or the time spent to get them its still the same.

And an endless mission, can't be timed like the survival fissures wich are 10 min if i'm not wrong, you can't call that endless besides even if you can stay it doesn't reward the time the players spends there.
Endless mission were a big part of the game that players could get a nice time of gameplay enjoying themselfs,and be rewarded for it. Now that is inexistent.

The void is lackluster as it is now, only thing exclusive to it is argon... Not really rewarding to play it. A shame after the undreds of hours spent there to not even touch it anymore..

In my opinion it didn't kill the game also, but it needs a lot of changes,improvements.

So again in my opinion i don't really agree with you and i think your opinions are very biased and that you are forcing positive points of view into your and others general opinion on the subjects.

 

[DeMonkey]

51 minutes ago, noveltyhero said:

But it's still RNG!

Yes, DE made that very clear before the update, it is still RNG but now you can affect, now you know your odds and you can change them. It is not only easier to get rarer stuff it is easier to get the exact component you want. The old void was terrible, it truly nullified other tilesets, just as beautiful. Now my personal favorite tilesets are the void but that doesn't mean I only want to play those. This update alleviated many issues the starchart and void farming was beginning to have rotting in its core.

This game lives and breathes by RNG, tilesets are made by RNG for crying out loud. I for one am very happy with the way they did it, sure its a rough diamond, but it is still a diamond that can and will be refined.

Just want to point something out, as I said in my own thread it is only easier to get rare parts if you're a long term player who had a hoard of keys. The grind has merely been shifted from part acquisition to relic acquisition, and it has been shifted too far.

Objectively I'm pretty certain there is more grind that there was before, so I'm sure you can understand why some are going to complain about the RNG.

I find this update lacking personally, perhaps the changes were necessary but I don't like how long it's taken to get them out and how little content there's been over the past few months.

[noveltyhero]

2 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Just want to point something out, as I said in my own thread it is only easier to get rare parts if you're a long term player who had a hoard of keys. The grind has merely been shifted from part acquisition to relic acquisition, and it has been shifted too far.

Objectively I'm pretty certain there is more grind that there was before, so I'm sure you can understand why some are going to complain about the RNG.

I find this update lacking personally, perhaps the changes were necessary but I don't like how long it's taken to get them out and how little content there's been over the past few months.

I'm not too sure,I guess we'll see how relic acquisition changes over the next few months hopefully.

On that last part, I do agree, it did in fact take way too long for not only this update but generally it has been far too long, maybe it is a one off though :/

I wish we had gotten some events or at least some tactical alerts.

[noveltyhero]

21 minutes ago, BBOTAA said:

-snip-

My favorite part of the void has been destroyed (sabotage), I agree with that. But as far as I can see this new relic system has been released prematurely, which I'm not sure what to think of.

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, noveltyhero said:

I'm not too sure,I guess we'll see how relic acquisition changes over the next few months hopefully.

To elaborate, we're using relics 4x faster than we used keys and there are more types of relics available (and thus more dilution in the drop tables).

Of course this may all change over time and Mag Primes revaulting looks like it will change some things, but at this point in time the grind has been increased for everyone who didn't already have keys.

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

I'm just having a hard time adjusting to DE's offer of better RNG in exchange for a timewall increase.

With every new prime access comes new relics to farm, traces to farm, and waiting for three friends to have similar maxed relics to push RNG to the ceiling.

I don't like it.  But it is what it is.

 

 

[noveltyhero]

4 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

To elaborate, we're using relics 4x faster than we used keys and there are more types of relics available (and thus more dilution in the drop tables).

Of course this may all change over time and Mag Primes revaulting looks like it will change some things, but at this point in time the grind has been increased for everyone who didn't already have keys.

Yeah but relic drops can be improved, as I've noticed sometimes I receive 3 relics in a row. Only problem right now with that is it seems that the rewards are not synced with the rest of the squad :/

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Magician_NG said:

I'm just having a hard time adjusting to DE's offer of better RNG in exchange for a timewall increase.

With every new prime access comes new relics to farm, traces to farm, and waiting for three friends to have similar maxed relics to push RNG to the ceiling.

I don't like it.  But it is what it is.

No, yeah only just recently noticed that, it is a serious step back. I don't really like the look of that. However they should delay it at the very least until the relic farm and usage evens out further, it is just too early (especially for PS4 and Xbone) to make changes like this IMO 

[Airwolfen]

2 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

To elaborate, we're using relics 4x faster than we used keys and there are more types of relics available (and thus more dilution in the drop tables).

Of course this may all change over time and Mag Primes revaulting looks like it will change some things, but at this point in time the grind has been increased for everyone who didn't already have keys.

While it is true that 4x more keys are used also note that there is less of a chance that all 4 rewards are useless. You can also gain loot from key types you don't even own. So I'd say the general quality of the loot has gone up. But sure, not 4x more quality.

Still Higher % rare drops even with unrefined though and no sitting 20+ minutes in survival for yet another mediocre drop.

[BBOTAA]

4 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

To elaborate, we're using relics 4x faster than we used keys and there are more types of relics available (and thus more dilution in the drop tables).

Of course this may all change over time and Mag Primes revaulting looks like it will change some things, but at this point in time the grind has been increased for everyone who didn't already have keys.

Other big problem is that you can recruit someone to lets say a axi s1, and you ask for that relic and max refinement level.
Theres no way for you to check neither, wich is really bad. At least before when you get in a mission group you would knew if someone selected the wrong key.

[noveltyhero]

1 minute ago, BBOTAA said:

Other big problem is that you can recruit someone to lets say a axi s1, and you ask for that relic and max refinement level.
Theres no way for you to check neither, wich is really bad. At least before when you get in a mission group you would knew if someone selected the wrong key.

I believe Steve addressed that in last week's prime time. He said it would function like Dragon Keys so you can see who has equipped what.

Once that change comes maybe we can let those without relics to claim rewards.

[Airwolfen]

2 minutes ago, noveltyhero said:

Only problem right now with that is it seems that the rewards are not synced with the rest of the squad :/

Have not had the chance to test but Fix 12 notes it as fixed.

Quote

Fixes: 

• Fixed players in the same mission not always given the same rewards at End of Mission, such as Spy, Derelict Vaults, choices in Void Fissure mission. 

 

[Ibro156]

I do agree with all your statements. This update was to refine and change a lot of issues we had with game. But third parts hasn't really came yet, and I would assume it will contain handful of new content while also *hopefully* changing some Archwing issues...

The Void change was really nice. I liked the Void tileset, it looked nice but seeing it all the time. It was starting to get to me and I quit farming for prime parts. Now with chnage of Void Fissures, I can play it more often and it's alot more fun. While I wish the Void Fissures were explained more the new players. I don't really have any issues except the endless missions problem that was mentioned.

[Bazools]

I can honestly say that i've never went so long a time without playing Warframe like now!

For me it wasn't this particular update or the previous one (Lunaro) but actually the abusive amount of time that they took to drop, that and the fact that the only thing that kept me playing and invested was the Second Dream quest i have to say that i will only be playin whenever a new quest drops because i just want to see where DE is going with the story.

I care not for more grindin', RNG or more weapons (3 years of that was more than enough).

P.S. Is War Within still this month!? ;)

 

[BBOTAA]

7 minutes ago, noveltyhero said:

I believe Steve addressed that in last week's prime time. He said it would function like Dragon Keys so you can see who has equipped what.

Once that change comes maybe we can let those without relics to claim rewards.

Yeh the problem is that it will come after mag being vaulted again. I would bet that with you.. And its not like a major change.. and you already have the same system for dragon keys, it's just making some new entries. Besides it should have been implemented when this system was released.

[noveltyhero]

12 minutes ago, Airwolfen said:

Have not had the chance to test but Fix 12 notes it as fixed.

 

I missed that, thanks :D

[Schregger]

My problem with the new system is the whole infusing process for relics. Say im going for the Nikana Prime blade for my third Nikana Prime (because what else do I have to do?) So I take the relic its from Meso N2 I believe, and infuse it with 100 void traces. Now I have a far better chance at the blade showing up, but the drop chances of everything else for the relic have also increased, and the first three items that drop already have a high drop chance, so they're still likely to show up instead of the Nikana Prime blade I actually want. 

It really seems like the whole infusion deal is pointless...

[Bizzaro21]

glad to see someone who sees it like I did, +1 OP and i like your thinking

[Airwolfen]

3 minutes ago, Bazools said:

I can honestly say that i've never went so long a time without playing Warframe like now!

For me it wasn't this particular update or the previous one (Lunaro) but actually the abusive amount of time that they took to drop, that and the fact that the only thing that kept me playing and invested was the Second Dream quest i have to say that i will only be playin whenever a new quest drops because i just want to see where DE is going with the story.

I care not for more grindin', RNG or more weapons (3 years of that was more than enough).

P.S. Is War Within still this month!? ;)

 

Think it is fair to say that war within is not going to be in this month. I hope it even.

A lot of people have already stated that they rather have a more polished patch then another SotR. So I hope that they set a less harsh deadline so they can actually ship all needed features and have the time to test said features.

[Airwolfen]

4 minutes ago, Schregger said:

My problem with the new system is the whole infusing process for relics. Say im going for the Nikana Prime blade for my third Nikana Prime (because what else do I have to do?) So I take the relic its from Meso N2 I believe, and infuse it with 100 void traces. Now I have a far better chance at the blade showing up, but the drop chances of everything else for the relic have also increased, and the first three items that drop already have a high drop chance, so they're still likely to show up instead of the Nikana Prime blade I actually want. 

It really seems like the whole infusion deal is pointless...

You decrease the commons from 78 to 50 % and increase the rare drops from 2 to 10 %. (compare that to the old 5.5% after 20 minutes of survival) The real statistical advantages are from group play though ~7.8% to have at least one rare when all are unrefined up to ~34% with a full team of fully refined relics.

So it may feel unrewarding (Know the feeling) but statistically the new system is superior in drop chance even at a unrefined level.

Extra note: while you can't get a reward you CAN get traces without using a relic but you do need someone with a relic to open the tear.

[Rioma]

As a MR 22 player i used to void grind for fun, and I could make platinum while I'm doing it. My favorite thing to do was Void Sab, and Capture runs with a fast frame like Nezha and Volt. I might do a interception or defense every once in a while when I wanted to play a certain frame. Now what am I supposed to do? Am i supposed to just do starchart missions that provide me no means of acquiring platinum besides maybe a mod drop? Or I can farm a void fissure for some fresh exciting gameplay. Oh wait every void fissure is the same. Find fissure, have bombards and nullifiers dropped directly on your head, seal it, repeat? 

We heard you guys didn't like grinding the same mission over and over again. Well we made a new system where the mission type doesn't really matter because the real objective (sealing the fissure) is the same thing every time. :D 

At least I don't know make Void Traces drop from. . .The void????????? Right now there is no reason to even go into the void besides argon crystals. In the Dev stream prior to SotR Steve said if there aren't any void drops you want at the moment to go farm the Void Traces so when something new comes out you can be ready to grind for it. But you can only hold 100 traces. And we don't know what relics the drops are tied to. So am I just supposed to prepare 1 relic? 

Hopefully this next dev stream will give me some hope. I understand this update was the just the brand new, unpolished, unrefined skeleton of Warframe going forward. But man it is pretty hard to look at.