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Out Of Frame: The Everyday Lives Of The Tenno - Feedback & Discussion

Jordan_McBeast

By Jordan_McBeast,
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Doozy84

Doozy84

Posted
Posted

I don't like your portrayal of saryn.

Not because I disagree with the personality you've given her, but because it just feels like bad writing. IDK if you know the term metagaming.... but yeah. Your portrayal of her/her dialog is along the same lines of $&*&*#(%& as those people.

A critique you say? Very interesting. Who do you mean by those people?

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Stinker

Stinker

Posted
Posted (edited)

A critique you say? Very interesting. Who do you mean by those people?

Those people as in the the people who are the ones doing the metagaming.

I'm sure there is a proper term for what I am trying to point out, but alas I am neither a writer nor silver tongued devil. Hopefully you understand what I'm failing to say anyway.

Edited by Stinker
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Doozy84

Doozy84

Posted
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Okay maybe im a little confused because im reading the forums on my phone in the back of a vw bus on my way to a concert for my little brothers 21st birthday and beer and hotboxing may or may not have been involved...

But how is a fictional character's personality that i made up metagaming?

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SLI-fox

SLI-fox

Posted
Posted

By metagaming, I'm assuming you mean Role Playing and all that 'goodness' it entails.

 

I'm trying to think what other meaning you could have behind it, but I think 'metagaming' is a bit outta context for me to grasp what ya mean.

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Stinker

Stinker

Posted
Posted (edited)

By metagaming, I'm assuming you mean Role Playing and all that 'goodness' it entails.

 

I'm trying to think what other meaning you could have behind it, but I think 'metagaming' is a bit outta context for me to grasp what ya mean.

I'm not saying it's metagaming, I'm saying it's like metagaming and holy crap I just realized the word I was looking for is mary sue. I just get the idea from the writing that Doozy's saryn is very much a mary sue. Saw a picture of trehearne from gw2 and it reminded me of the term.

 

That's not to say I haven't been enjoying the rest of the sillyness. It's a highlight of my day.

Edited by Stinker
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fishworshipper

fishworshipper

Posted
Posted

I'm not saying it's metagaming, I'm saying it's like metagaming and holy crap I just realized the word I was looking for is mary sue. I just get the idea from the writing that Doozy's saryn is very much a mary sue. Saw a picture of trehearne from gw2 and it reminded me of the term.

I am unfamiliar with the term "Mary Sue".

Do explain?

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SLI-fox

SLI-fox

Posted
Posted

He's saying that Sayrn is being portrayed as an Ideal character, which in narrative terms means a 2-dimensional, always right character. And I can kinda see it, but whatever I'm more invested in the fact that Loki needs to continue his pranking.

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Stinker

Stinker

Posted
Posted (edited)

Bleh, then I still don't have the term to describe what it is I'm trying to spit out.

So, I'm thinking it's like metagaming/mary sue because the character just seems to have all the answers somehow feels like it's the center of attention even though it's not but like it's written in a perspective like it is and is stretched thin to connect the character to things it shouldn't be using descriptions that are just wrong.

e.x. saryn's glaiving off PDG's legs. How do you get chemical burns for a 'clean cut' when the ability is all about infection and dieing a horrible, slow, excruciatingly painful poisoned death that's aptly named CONTAGION. Then again, I know very little about disease/biochemistry or whatever to know if that could even be a thing so correct me if I'm wrong and I'll take back this entire last statement.

Just realized that example has NOTHING to do with what I was saying other than supporting the part where I said she just had bad writing overall.

 

also this :D I'm done kvetching and flailing about.

but whatever I'm more invested in the fact that Loki needs to continue his pranking.

Edited by Stinker
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fishworshipper

fishworshipper

Posted
Posted (edited)

e.x. saryn's glaiving off PDG's legs. How do you get chemical burns for a 'clean cut' when the ability is all about infection and dieing a horrible, slow, excruciatingly painful poisoned death that's aptly named CONTAGION. Then again, I know very little about disease/biochemistry or whatever to know if that could even be a thing so correct me if I'm wrong and I'll take back this entire last statement.

Just realized that example has NOTHING to do with what I was saying other than supporting the part where I said she just had bad writing overall.

 

also this :D I'm done kvetching and flailing about

All of Saryn's skills, bar Miasma, are terribly named. Molt is spelled wrong, Contagion uses a venom and Venom is a contagion. It's likely that TheSkillThatShouldBeCalledVenom uses chemical burns rather than any sort of actual disease. Diseases don't act like that at all. Edited by fishworshipper
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SLI-fox

SLI-fox

Posted
Posted

Here doozy, life made simpler

 

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SLI-fox

SLI-fox

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Posted (edited)

Black Hole Sue is something Saryn categorizes well as.

 

'black hole sue, won't you come

and wash away the plot~'

 

Buuuut that aside, I've perused TvTropes to call out just about everything.

Edited by SLI-fox
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Piranah1

Piranah1

Posted
Posted

Chimed in with some FPC over in that thread too. 

 

"...let the Lord of Chaos rule.."

 

 

Errr... Have i missed something here? To me that's WoT...

 

also, did anyone notice that at the bottom of the book civilization is spelled incorrectly with a s instead of a z?

 

Actually it is spelt correctly for any English speaking country rather than an American speaking country

 

Also, just how off-topic can this thread get? I love the work Doozy btw.

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Doozy84

Doozy84

Posted
Posted

1004092_10151754631841692_1413427239_n.j

First things first, that's my little brother with Guy Fierri in the House of Blues, Steel Panther rules. If you're in LA on a monday night, go see them, they're totally insane. Shame about that band that opened though, those A******s from new york were a tragedy. Second band that went up was pretty good though.

NOW, WHILE I'M STILL BUZZED AND I CAN'T HEAR ANYTHING BECAUSE I'VE SPENT THE LAST TWO HOURS HEADBANGING TO 80s METAL SONGS ABOUT TRASHY SEX MOVES, let's talk turkey.

Gather round children, its time I taught you a little something. There are 2 important lessons here about Saryn.

 

 

LESSON NUMBER 1-

 

You're all giving me too much credit. This is my weekend forum trolling project. If you think there's actually an outline, or a plot, or that I'm ever actually aiming before I pull the trigger, you are totally off the island. And not just my island, your island too.


do_i_really_look_like_a_guy_with_a_plan.

LESSON NUMBER 2-

 

You're all accusing Saryn of being a Sue because again, you are assuming I actually have a plan. Let me tell you exactly how far the rabbit hole actually goes- I'm trying to figure out whether or not I'm going to forma this sobek, and if I do, how many times. That's about as far as we've gotten. And maybe I've got an interview at this gym on thursday. I'll worry about that on wednesday. The point is, if I had any idea what the hell I was doing, i'd be dangerous. Dangerous and sober.

But that's not actually lesson number 2.

The real lesson number 2 is that just because something has a name, doesn't mean its a character. There are lots of objects that have names, but aren't actually characters. Most of them are Bella Swan and Anastasia Steele, but just because a person is in a story, doesn't mean they're a character.

Case in point...

 

There are 14 frames in the game and in the story, and then there's PDG. that makes 15. How many characters do you think this story actually has?

The correct answer is 4.

There are currently 4 characters in the story.

Ember, Saryn, Rhino, and PDG.

 

Go back and read through the last 29 pages and examine the dialog line by line.

 

Or don't I'll just tell you so its easier- All the other frames are plot devices. They're completely interchangeable, they have no unique dialog, if I changed the color of their text or their name of their frames, you would never be able to discern who was who. You could describe literally every warframe's personality in this story in one sentence.

The only ones who are actually characters, who actually have a set role, are Rhino, Ember, Saryn, and PDG.

And by the way, Saryn is the new girl on the block- Up until 2 pages ago, she was another plot device. Her entire purpose up until PDG subplot was to be the trampoline that Ember bounced her ego off of. Go ahead, read all of her dialog- its a formula.

Ember- Something catty.

Saryn- Something catty back.
Ember- Wednesday Addams line.

Saryn- something catty back.

But this is part of the game of writing. You're allowed to make people into props, and you're allowed to bring them forward or push them backwards as you need them. We simply haven't gotten that far yet. I CAN ONLY SHIP 1 COUPLE AT A TIME, PEOPLE. That's why Volt and Nyx got out of the way first.

 

Let's take an example from Game of Thrones, because that's popular, and even if you didn't read it, you probably still watch the show. Which I will spoiler like crazy because I did read it, and you should too.

 

Sansa- Character or plot device?

 

The answer is plot device. Up until around Storm of Swords, Sansa is nobody. Not just because we all hate Sansa because she's a naive brat and nobody likes her, but because her job is not to be a character. Sansa's job in GoT is to be the window that allows us to see other important characters who don't get their own chapters, like Varys, Littlefinger, Geoffrey, and Margaery. Sansa is the window through which we see Kings Landing, because the only other character that has chapters in Kings Landing is Tyrion. Sansa isn't a character, she's a mouthpiece. Her entire purpose is to be a mirror for more important characters to be reflected upon.

 

there are tiers of characters, primary, secondary, and tertiary, and then you have goons that just show up, like bartenders and baristas and all the people who are there, but only function as part of a scenario that a character is involved in. If you go to a concert and stand in the crowd, the band up on stage are characters. Do the people in the crowd have names? Probably, but realistically, no they don't. The crowd is a plot device.


So what you're seeing in the story here isn't that Saryn is a sue, its that she's actually having her character developed. Her dialog doesn't revolve completely around arguing with Ember anymore, and because she's getting more screen time and her star is shining and she seems to know some answers, you're assuming that she's a sue because you're assuming I actually have a plan.

 

THERE IS NO PLAN. I might decide tomorrow that Rhino is actually a molecular physicist and starts dating Nova after they meet at a TED talks presentation. Or maybe Loki will just get hit by a bus. Driven by Banshee.


Oh also, I'm totally open to critique. If I thought Saryn was actually a Sue, I'd come out and admit it. Another thing about Sues is that they're sociopaths- Any emotion they express towards another person is just a mirror for their own vanity, like a hot girl hanging out with her fat friend so she looks better by comparison. Saryn can't be a Sue because she actually feels authentic guilt and sympathy over what she did to PDG, and wants to make a genuine effort to become a positive force in her life, in a way that's hilariously convenient given her developed background.

She was a little dramatic when she explained that her abilities were humane though and that using chemical agents to kill people was totally BETTER than burning or freezing or zapping them to death, but that's just her rationalizing her own ego. I'm actually pretty sure that collapsing into a pile of soylent green is one of the worst ways to die in this game, so yea, she actually does have a flaw- The queen of mean is lying to herself.

Also, somebody please tell me that they've figured out that Ember is a complete narcissist.

But now the cat's out of the bag and you all know too much.

 

So I'm going to have to tie up a few loose ends...

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Kalenath

Kalenath

Posted
Posted (edited)

Well for starters, right now Loki doesn’t know where you live. That can change.

EMBER: WE’LL BEHAVE.

Get back on the other side of the 4th wall where you belong

 

Smart girl...

Edited by Kalenath
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