Okina need to be changed.....

[Block_sendo]

The okina are "suppose" to be the first sai based weapon in warframe, they are not, they are just another pair of knives and ill tell you why. sai's are their own type of weapon, its okay that in warframe they are the duel dagger class but sai's dont count as daggers or as any kind of knife, to be a knive you have to have a blade for somthing to hhave a blade it has to have an edge which cuts things, Sai's cannot cut things they can only puncture its like trying to cut yourself with the side of a pencil you cant do it, now you could stab said pencil through the guy who said "oh hey! lets make a weapon that can only stab things do slash damage when we put them into the game."  i do not yet rest my case. someone could say you can use them like the sai weapon could be used but you cannot do that either. The sai had somthing that made it stand out, in which you could grab the crossguard of the weapon to use punching like motions to more effectivly cause damage to your enemy, PROBLEM, when you use this crossguard tactic your fingers are resting near the spike of the weapon, if this weapon where to have a blade you couldint grab the crossguards unless you want to cut your fingers off.

 

so basicly the okina are just fancy looking knives not sai, because sai can only stab and they where able to be used in ways you cannot use a knife for. DE PLEASAE FIX THIS. The Okina are just another pair of knives if you leave them how they are, make them do only puncture damage ONLY PUNCTURE DAMAGE cause thats all they are able to do.

 

i will post another one of these every week { if i can remember} because this is just sad, it would have taken one google search to see a picture of a sai and say "hey these can only stab things" ive always been told you guys dont reasearch things before doing them or think about logic or none of that, but now i can see its true! i mean come on. please fix the okina

[TrickshotMcGee]

The Okina are currently the strongest dual daggers, as well as the only ones that deal multiple types of damage in any meaningful way. If the Okina were to lose their slash damage, the only thing they'd be is a semi-better sidegrade (but huge visual downgrade) to Fang Prime, which is likely what DE was trying to avoid by giving them multiple damage types. 

Also, if they were to take away the slash of the Okina based on looks, they'd have to give that slash to Fang Prime because those are quite distinctly knives, and you can't apply logic to one while not applying it to another. 

It is what it is, and making multiple threads on the same topic regularly simply clogs the forums more than necessary. Also, I very highly doubt DE will directly nerf the only good weapon in a whole weapon class on purpose. Especially when they intentionally made it "strong" (passable) to begin with. 

[Revenant0713]

Actually, if you've used sai at all, you know they can cut. Just the very tip, but they CAN cut. Or scratch. I wouldn't worry about numbers too much if it's a pet peeve. I mean Dark Split-Sword has no slash damage, but I love it... so...

And impact damage is fine as well, since puncturing a surface is technically dependent on the PSI behind the blow.

You have a point regarding the crossguard and the type of weapon though... The sai is not a dagger. They were nice enough to differentiate the Katana from the Greatsword and the Rapier from the standard one-handed sword design. It makes me wonder why they didn't do so for this.

But let's face it. They won't care. And honestly, the numbers and matching stance look fine so I can live with it.

[Block_sendo]

1 minute ago, Revenant0713 said:

Actually, if you've used sai at all, you know they can cut. Just the very tip, but they CAN cut. Or scratch. I wouldn't worry about numbers too much if it's a pet peeve. I mean Dark Split-Sword has no slash damage, but I love it... so...

And impact damage is fine as well, since puncturing a surface is technically dependent on the PSI behind the blow.

You have a point regarding the crossguard and the type of weapon though... The sai is not a dagger. They were nice enough to differentiate the Katana from the Greatsword and the Rapier from the standard one-handed sword design. It makes me wonder why they didn't do so for this.

But let's face it. They won't care. And honestly, the numbers and matching stance look fine so I can live with it.

logically yeah they can scratch things with the tip of the spike but come one, thats not somthing anyone would take into account for basing their damage type, ever, never. but it is true they can cut in that respect but so can anything in that respect.

[ashrah]

dual daggers need in general big buff...

[Block_sendo]

10 minutes ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

The Okina are currently the strongest dual daggers, as well as the only ones that deal multiple types of damage in any meaningful way. If the Okina were to lose their slash damage, the only thing they'd be is a semi-better sidegrade (but huge visual downgrade) to Fang Prime, which is likely what DE was trying to avoid by giving them multiple damage types. 

Also, if they were to take away the slash of the Okina based on looks, they'd have to give that slash to Fang Prime because those are quite distinctly knives, and you can't apply logic to one while not applying it to another. 

It is what it is, and making multiple threads on the same topic regularly simply clogs the forums more than necessary. Also, I very highly doubt DE will directly nerf the only good weapon in a whole weapon class on purpose. Especially when they intentionally made it "strong" (passable) to begin with. 

i kinda lost myself while typing this :) so ill summarize it.

 

if you want nice duel daggers okay, the problem is Sai's are not daggers

your right if they change the okina they need to propperly change the other daggers to puncture and slash {fang do slash damage fang prime does 100% no slash damage} 

 

DE should be ashamed of themselves they have messed up alot anyone who plays this game knows that as the true-est fact that will ever exist about warframe, you should be ashamed for covering for them. sure they wont fix it i get that but it should atleast be known. DE messes up often in alot of aspects, i saw a while ago someone saying a mod shouldint exist because it gives more aim while aim gliding, thats one simple thing DE messed up on its usless that should be in the settings menu. the fact they kill the warframes ninjas is a failure ninjas dont do any of the things we do. though nobody is perfect and thats somthing that cant be fixed, though a human can learn, from past mistakes and its about time DE learned to actually research things

 

in closing....... the okina should be changed, it shouldint be stoped because its the only good duel dagger it should be stoped because they dont want to, it needs to happen if DE wishs to correct one of the most horrible mistakes i will ever see them do. sure its a small issue that nobody cares about, but every time i watch the DEV streams i dont see 5 people sitting talking about a game. i see 5 stupid people who cant care enough to reasearch things sit on a couch and make people be disapointed in them more. 

[Vohim]

Okina are a Tsai weapon Variant  their Design  is mostly designed around slashing and stabbing , edges and pointy tip.

the weapon damage matches its design

 

how about you stop bashing Okina and demand for an actual   average Sai with Puncture  damage instead

I'm a martial arts practitioner myself  but i can tell you even without said knowledge that Sharp edge=Slash=Cut 

please get educated before making accusations 

Edited July 27, 2016 by Retepzednem

[Prophet]

The game needs to have more clarity on their weapons. For example shotguns have puncture, impact, slash damage, but the weapons all look like they deal the same kind of damage. Weapon damage types needs to have more clarity. Yes i know this is on melee weapons, but the same problem exists with guns

 

[TrickshotMcGee]

10 hours ago, Block_sendo said:

in closing....... the okina should be changed, it shouldint be stoped because its the only good duel dagger it should be stoped because they dont want to, it needs to happen if DE wishs to correct one of the most horrible mistakes i will ever see them do. sure its a small issue that nobody cares about, but every time i watch the DEV streams i dont see 5 people sitting talking about a game. i see 5 stupid people who cant care enough to reasearch things sit on a couch and make people be disapointed in them more. 

Imma go ahead and fixate on this individual paragraph because I can't be bothered enough to hold a real conversation at the moment. The Okina don't need a change. It's a video game. If you think this is the "most horrible mistake you will ever see them make", then you either haven't been playing long or are 100% oblivious to the entire rest of the game. If you don't see them as developers, and only as morons who can't research, then you really shouldn't even play the game, THB. If that's your opinion, then how do you even derive enjoyment from playing? If something so trivial sets you off, then how the hell do you overlook things like armor scaling or the broken affinity system? 

Incidentally, there are variants of sai that have blades as well as a point, which would account for the design of the Okina. In fact, they're very similar to the kris in terms of how they were used, which does include cutting instead of simply stabbing. Do a bit of research yourself before you start complaining about things you only think you know based on hearsay from the internet and entertainment. 

[Kai_Shiba]

11 hours ago, Block_sendo said:

i see 5 stupid people who cant care enough to reasearch things sit on a couch and make people be disapointed in them more. 

I never understood why people have to dev bash because they're mad about how the Okina/Sai are designed in a video game.

The Okina deals 20 slash and 18 puncture with no impact at all. Plus, if you look at the model of the Okina, it's bladed. There are many different types of Sais, and DE went with the bladed one.

Also, it is technically a dagger, which is used for thrusting or slashing, which the Okina fall into. So please, cut the childish bashing. It's not healthy.

 

Edited July 27, 2016 by KJRenz

[Revenant0713]

23 hours ago, KJRenz said:

I never understood why people have to dev bash because they're mad about how the Okina/Sai are designed in a video game.

The Okina deals 20 slash and 18 puncture with no impact at all. Plus, if you look at the model of the Okina, it's bladed. There are many different types of Sais, and DE went with the bladed one.

Also, it is technically a dagger, which is used for thrusting or slashing, which the Okina fall into. So please, cut the childish bashing. It's not healthy.

 

To be fair, a bladed sai is a dagger. The more traditional design is considered a baton, or truncheon. With the exception of a few asymmetrical styles, most sais fall under "trident."

But I feel it should have impact damage. You need pounds per square inch to deal damage with a sai, and they typically aren't as pointed as - say for example - rapiers.

But again... I'm happy with the way the Okina works as long as the Spinning Needle stance is equipped. It could be better, but I'll take it as it is. They DID do some research, which should be obvious by the weapon's namesake: Okinawa, where the weapon  arrived in Japan. Its history worldwide is much older, and I would have preferred they gave tribute to its Hindu origins instead. I agree with you... this is a shallow reason to bash devs.

[Desperado14]

There are very few things that are scientifically accurate in warframe. About the only thing is names of planets and moons in our solar system. Why are there arguments about what specific kinds of damage a certain weapon should do?  You are going to stack elemental damage on this weapon and every other physical damage weapon anyway! Those damage types make far less sense than impact and slash on a "puncture" weapon.  

If you think that weapon damage types have to be scientifically or historically correct, you should automatically mod for the kind of damage it should be.  Then everybody is happy.  

[13QZXXTTX]

Be-careful what you asked for, because people who get involved don't understand you.

Reminder to you, the Okina is Clan Tech dojo weapon, it should not be competing against level 100 enemies nor it should be useless against level 50 enemies. 

I can't state my reason but to remind you of what the Sai could have been, and what I don't think it should be.

Either way, would love to see more attention to weapon like the Okina (specifically older weapon) get deserved attention.

[kingcreeper296]

Aren't sais used as baton kind of things in Okinawa? I think they were used to smack people rather than poke and (in DE's case) slash people.

Edited August 2, 2016 by kingcreeper296
Sais autocorrected to said Rip

[Icymountain]

It's space magic. We have bladed axes that deal purely fire, toxic whips that don't deal an iota of toxin damage innately, and heavy machetes that deal less damage with a faster attack speed than a thin metal blade. 

[xS0nico]

For me, they should only tweak the crafting request for Okina. 
I don't really mind Polymer or Tellerium, but 1800 Oxium, expeccialy after the Cerberus nerf, it's pretty BS. 

[Inarticulate]

Not sure why it's so hard to accept that the Okina is a sai-shaped pair of daggers.

[Revenant0713]

On 8/2/2016 at 3:21 PM, DesFrSpace said:

Be-careful what you asked for, because people who get involved don't understand you.

Reminder to you, the Okina is Clan Tech dojo weapon, it should not be competing against level 100 enemies nor it should be useless against level 50 enemies. 

I can't state my reason but to remind you of what the Sai could have been, and what I don't think it should be.

Either way, would love to see more attention to weapon like the Okina (specifically older weapon) get deserved attention.

But the Okina isn't an old weapon.

[Revenant0713]

On 8/2/2016 at 5:52 PM, kingcreeper296 said:

Aren't sais used as baton kind of things in Okinawa? I think they were used to smack people rather than poke and (in DE's case) slash people.

No, they were used to poke more than bash. Also, they came from India, but were more extensively used in Okinawa. Kill shots were meant to land between the ribs. But the weapon was not meant as an offensive piece in the first place. Its design was meant to defend against melee weapons, particularly swords. The reason they weren't typically bladed was because the lack of surface area on the blade would have made it more difficult to lock your opponent. But even if it were blunt on the sides, any fighter would realize the greatest amount of damage they could deal was with the tip.

It is a baton, but it does have a... point.

[13QZXXTTX]

10 hours ago, Revenant0713 said:

But the Okina isn't an old weapon.

Well yeah, new and release weapon in general don't always come out legendary perfected, and I have come to accept that fact, even with your knowledge on the origin use of the "Okinawa-Sai" it still need fix until it is properly up to par. Otherwise, the Okinawa might be seen just as a dual sword. 

Time, the Okinawa is within our timeline, but ancient to the current WarFrame's timeline. Neverthless the weapon might not be game breaking, but a "decent/good" contender with the majority of weapons in the Tenno Lab/Dojo Labs.

Up to DE if they want to fix this weapon or leave it, though we might not see much. Still you have other things to worry about, including bugs, melee, and Quest, including Frames.

[Vohim]

On 7/27/2016 at 11:59 AM, KJRenz said:

I never understood why people have to dev bash because they're mad about how the Okina/Sai are designed in a video game.

The Okina deals 20 slash and 18 puncture with no impact at all. Plus, if you look at the model of the Okina, it's bladed. There are many different types of Sais, and DE went with the bladed one.

Also, it is technically a dagger, which is used for thrusting or slashing, which the Okina fall into. So please, cut the childish bashing. It's not healthy.

 

pretty much this

[Greenshockclaw]

On 7/26/2016 at 11:29 PM, Block_sendo said:

The okina are "suppose" to be the first sai based weapon in warframe, they are not, they are just another pair of knives and ill tell you why. sai's are their own type of weapon, its okay that in warframe they are the duel dagger class but sai's dont count as daggers or as any kind of knife, to be a knive you have to have a blade for somthing to hhave a blade it has to have an edge which cuts things, Sai's cannot cut things they can only puncture its like trying to cut yourself with the side of a pencil you cant do it, now you could stab said pencil through the guy who said "oh hey! lets make a weapon that can only stab things do slash damage when we put them into the game."  i do not yet rest my case. someone could say you can use them like the sai weapon could be used but you cannot do that either. The sai had somthing that made it stand out, in which you could grab the crossguard of the weapon to use punching like motions to more effectivly cause damage to your enemy, PROBLEM, when you use this crossguard tactic your fingers are resting near the spike of the weapon, if this weapon where to have a blade you couldint grab the crossguards unless you want to cut your fingers off.

 

so basicly the okina are just fancy looking knives not sai, because sai can only stab and they where able to be used in ways you cannot use a knife for. DE PLEASAE FIX THIS. The Okina are just another pair of knives if you leave them how they are, make them do only puncture damage ONLY PUNCTURE DAMAGE cause thats all they are able to do.

 

i will post another one of these every week { if i can remember} because this is just sad, it would have taken one google search to see a picture of a sai and say "hey these can only stab things" ive always been told you guys dont reasearch things before doing them or think about logic or none of that, but now i can see its true! i mean come on. please fix the okina

the okina have sharp edges, and a guard lower on the blade so you can still hold the crossguard. that way it can deal slash without messing up the purpose of the weapon

 

[Sahxta]

On 8/2/2016 at 2:10 PM, Icymountain said:

It's space magic. We have bladed axes that deal purely fire, toxic whips that don't deal an iota of toxin damage innately, and heavy machetes that deal less damage with a faster attack speed than a thin metal blade. 

best comment so far

[Gwevare]

I would like to see them simply switch Fang Prime and Okina for base damage type.  Since, Fang Prime has a blade, but for some reason is primarily Puncture damage.  Having both is fine, but as far as the primary damage, the damage that the weapons are designed mainly to do.  A bladed dagger is designed to slash AND stab, but mainly slash.  While Sai are mainly designed to, stab.  Stab.  Stab.  Parry.  Stab.

[Kainosh]

The only thing i would add to them is ability to disarm.

Because that is exactly why sai have such shape.