Performance Issues while on 1080X1920 no CPU bottleneck!!!

[BirrdofdatLife]

5 hours ago, qeuu said:

If you don't mind can you do the following and estimate your average and minimum FPS:

• Go to the simulacrum
• Summon 10 Juggernaut Behemoths(or regular ones) and  10 hyekka masters
• Stand on one of the pillars in the center and watch them fight.

Also CPU clock speed would also be helpful.

Another note to make this "test" is not GPU limited as i tested it at 1080p on both my normal (almost max) settings and the lowest i could put everything and there was no frame rate impact, except when looking into the empty space around the simulacrum.

I dont have the simulacrum unlocked. I want the scan hammer more lol I would. you can go to intel's ark site... my cpu is a 6 core/ 12 threads at 3.6ghz.

[qeuu]

1 hour ago, BirrdofdatLife said:

I dont have the simulacrum unlocked. I want the scan hammer more lol I would. you can go to intel's ark site... my cpu is a 6 core/ 12 threads at 3.6ghz.

fair enough, also i only asked for clock speed since that is an overclockable CPU so its not always clear at what speed it is running at (i have the same CPU but at 4.3ghz)

[BirrdofdatLife]

1 hour ago, qeuu said:

fair enough, also i only asked for clock speed since that is an overclockable CPU so its not always clear at what speed it is running at (i have the same CPU but at 4.3ghz)

yes, I haven't done much to really push and overclock yet.

[MillbrookWest]

On 8/8/2016 at 6:11 PM, Zenviscerator said:

The issue is in combat with high density fights with a crap ton of particle effects and having to render a lot enemies on screen. I think it mostly has to do with the CPU but I could be wrong. Like usually I'll get 300 fps uncapped but it will drop to around 50 in combat (though only in certain situations)

It's just really annoying and I would love to have this game not go under 90 fps since anything under is not really what I'm looking for with my high refresh rate monitor

Warframe is CPU limited. I'm pretty sure any dedicated mid-range (or higher) GPU will run Warframe with max settings, and little to worry about.

The CPU is in charge of everything in the scene. The aforementioned test being proposed by @qeuu, highlights this. When the Behemoths are just standing around, the impact to performance is moderate (at worst). But when each starts using their abilities, you'll notice the GPU load decrease. This is because the CPU isn't sending the GPU the data it needs to render frames fast enough (and i mean it can't). 

It can't send the data because the AOE effects likely bog down the engine, i don't know how Warframe handles their calculations, but to give an example, a single sludge bomb AOE from the behemoth is always looking for the frames. But what is the 'frame'? Nothing as far as the engine is concerned. So the engine is likely having to run calculations across everything in the scene to determine what the 'frame' is, and whether it can damage it. Are the polygons that make up the floor the 'frame'? No. Is the Adjacent Sludge Bomb AOE from the other behemoth a 'frame'? No. Is the behemoth a 'frame'? No. And consider this, this would just be for a single AOE from a single Behemoth. Once it has done all the calculation it needs for the next frame, can it then compile the data to send to the GPU for rendering.

I don't know how Warframe handles large crowds, and procs. But in a title like Skyrim (another CPU limited game), the engine runs a bunch of scripts on game entities(AI). These scripts are always looking for their trigger. Say for example you get a buff when you see a dragon. Just because the buff is inactive to you, doesn't mean the script is not running. It is always running, and always looking for a 'dragon'. So every single AI entity that gets loaded into memory, the game looks at this entity, and ask it if it's a Dragon, to which it says 'No'. If you have 100 NPC suddenly enter the game, the script then has to ask each entity in turn if it is a dragon, to which they will answer no, and you can continue playing. This example however, works on the assumption the engine knows what the AI entity is, if it does not, then it would be asking Tree's, dogs, cats, footpaths, barrels, arrows, swords etc. etc. as they too are also 'entities'. 

It's difficult to parallelise this logic also since you'd need to add in checks at each stage, so when a job was done (asking one NPC), another core doesn't pick up the job and ask the exact same NPC the question to which it had just answered. This is a crude example, but highlights the issues with cpu limits, and why (even on great multicore CPU's) Warframe has cpu troubles. 

[Nep_Blanc]

4 hours ago, MillbrookWest said:

-Snip_

U are totally focussing to expain the obvious mate I really thank you with your mile end story about how WF works but I just ask and Say WF optimize your stuff and don't pull back on quality for pc VS consoles.

It just does not make sense aside from the AI logic that can be parallelized pretty easily tho that is apparently not as great or well done.

There are other games I own with a lot of AI but it does simply not Draw as much and well it does parallelize a lot of their calculations.
Even if the AI is Single Threaded, The Graphics rendering pipeline does't have to suffer because of that(Aside from CPU bogging situations when they are present).
Those 2 are bound in a way but rendering and AI should not be as dependent on each other, like I see none to little more usage when hosting or not on the CPU.

The Rendering Pipeline can be parallelized for like 2 to 4 threads or more it just depends on that is handled.
Parallelizing AI can also be off handled by all clients but this is a total other story.

Dedicated AI server hosting could help a lot, but this could get some issues for cost effectiveness.
I would Be glad to load off some Calculations to my server tho because the thing is a beast for calculations.

Anyways even if there are a lot of those calculations going on and if they are CPU single threaded bottlenecked they do not surface in the OS as a single threaded bottlenecked Process at all. Even funnier tho Warframe never even maxes your CPU on any of the Logical/Physical cores. It uses less when there is more going on in some situations.

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion

[Lord_of_Lords]

On 8/9/2016 at 9:28 AM, TheRoaringLion said:

The Rendering Pipeline can be parallelized for like 2 to 4 threads or more it just depends on that is handled.

It is parallelized and has been by default for quite some time.  You can enable/disable multi-threaded rendering in the launcher before the game starts.

If you haven't seen this option, then I suggest verifying and optimizing the cache (in that order) on the same settings panel before complaining about optimization.  It's possible that some form of cache corruption has occurred leaving you with a sub-par and non-reproducible (read undiagnoseable or undebugable) experience.

[aerosoul1337]

Do you have FPS issue even if play in solo?

I have serious fps drop for multi-player.

I used to have 200+ fps in a full squad Raid.

Now I have 50~70 fps in most multi-player missions (4 men).

 

But I still have 250~300 fps while soloing.

Edited August 24, 2016 by aerosoul1337

[Nep_Blanc]

On 8/24/2016 at 11:08 AM, aerosoul1337 said:

Do you have FPS issue even if play in solo?

I have serious fps drop for multi-player.

I used to have 200+ fps in a full squad Raid.

Now I have 50~70 fps in most multi-player missions (4 men).

 

But I still have 250~300 fps while soloing.

Yes it is more apparent while with a full squad, funny thing tho that if I play with a dual squad like 2 guys it happens too but not as worse.
It is not as worse when you go with 2 guys so yea, also solo it is making my game a lot more smooth and playable.
But even then why did the symalancrum framedrop my framerate to 45 and lower when having 10 juggernaut behemoth and hyekka masters?

Also what do you refer to solo? sitting in your ship and do nothing or a real Solo mission because well I can't say that the orbiter is a solo mission :P

On 8/24/2016 at 7:48 AM, Lord_of_Lords said:

It is parallelized and has been by default for quite some time.  You can enable/disable multi-threaded rendering in the launcher before the game starts.

If you haven't seen this option, then I suggest verifying and optimizing the cache (in that order) on the same settings panel before complaining about optimization.  It's possible that some form of cache corruption has occurred leaving you with a sub-par and non-reproducible (read undiagnoseable or undebugable) experience.

I did this all so no need for this but I want to see your findings that your PC gives you when we do these kinds of tests and also please do the thing below and up with the juggies.

Furthermore thank you for helping the thread out with your input and such, and will you please give us your PC specs in this thread also to see where the possible bottleneck can be.

 

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion

Edited August 26, 2016 by TheRoaringLion

[aerosoul1337]

2 hours ago, TheRoaringLion said:

Yes it is more apparent while with a full squad, funny thing tho that if I play with a dual squad like 2 guys it happens too but not as worse.
It is not as worse when you go with 2 guys so yea, also solo it is making my game a lot more smooth and playable.
But even then why did the symalancrum framedrop my framerate to 45 and lower when having 10 juggernaut behemoth and hyekka masters?

Also what do you refer to solo? sitting in your ship and do nothing or a real Solo mission because well I can't say that the orbiter is a solo mission :P

 

20 Juggernauts can cause fps drop even in the simulacrum, yes, from 300 to 45 even with top-end GPUs.

However, 20x drahk masters which summons 3 drahks in the simulacrum, this barely reduces any fps. (total 80 enemies in sight and are hitting me.)

I need to test if it's hyekka master's flamethrower causes problem, gotta disarm them.
EDIT: after disarming them, 20 hyekka masters barely reduces any fps either.
But juggernaut is still weird.
 

As for SOLO,
I mean "normal" solo play in a mission (or sortie with tons of enemies), not the simulacrum.

Edited August 26, 2016 by aerosoul1337

[Nep_Blanc]

1 hour ago, aerosoul1337 said:

20 Juggernauts can cause fps drop even in the simulacrum, yes, from 300 to 45 even with top-end GPUs.

However, 20x drahk masters which summons 3 drahks in the simulacrum, this barely reduces any fps. (total 80 enemies in sight and are hitting me.)

I need to test if it's hyekka master's flamethrower causes problem, gotta disarm them.
EDIT: after disarming them, 20 hyekka masters barely reduces any fps either.
But juggernaut is still weird.
 

As for SOLO,
I mean "normal" solo play in a mission (or sortie with tons of enemies), not the simulacrum.

well that is what I want you to do some enemies and I am sure more of them do drop your fps more then others but with some it is just more apparant.

Also please post your system specs!!! it is greatly appreciated that you will do this.

To mention GPU usage in Warframe seems not to matter a thing, Warframe depends on a rather strange rendering model. So I don't know why it begins to use less CPU and GPU when a lot of stuff happens.
 

Solo missions do Affect my gameplay positively so it seems that the Netcode makes it worse.
I know what Solo play is so please no lectures about this, as I already said I did try it and it makes the game much more smooth and like 200+ FPS.
Thing is tho that sometimes it does drop very low to +-60 and sometimes less while in certain maps(Uranus maps and some infested maps).

I would sincerely like a benchmarking tool for Warframe, that lets Warframe devs see that this game needs some polishing performance wise.

I know my rig is not the fastest ever but I can play games reasonably fast and stable to say that Warframe is definitely the culprit. 
Ashes of the singularity runs on 60 fps on my game but that game uses all of my CPU threads to the max and my GPU's to the max when it could and that is a real time strategy game. with loads more enemies on screen.
And yes I know that it is a DX12 game and such, I see Warframe could benefit from that a lot too.

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion

[aerosoul1337]

Your rig is good enough for any modern game.
But warframe used to have better performance before U19.
I used to have 200 fps in a full squad raid.
After TSG: Hotfix #4, my warframe team play got less fps than the Witcher 3 on max settings.

My rig:

Windows 7 64-bit SP1

Intel Core i7 4790K @ 4.00GHz

RAM 16.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 933MHz

EVGA GeForce GTX 980 SC ACX 2.0 4GB DDR5

(GPU@1266MHz / Memory@1753MHz / Boost@1367MHz)

Resolution: 1920x1080@60Hz

[[DE]Linkski]

5 hours ago, aerosoul1337 said:

20 Juggernauts can cause fps drop even in the simulacrum, yes, from 300 to 45 even with top-end GPUs.

While we absolutely encourage tests like these to help us determine potential performance issues, you might be better off trying to recreate some more reasonable scenarios. For example, under no circumstances should you ever see 20 Juggernauts in a mission. If there is something wrong when trying to play with just 1 Juggernaut then that is absolutely cause for concern, but Juggernauts were created to be used sparingly. 

Edited August 26, 2016 by [DE]Dmitri

[Marshall]

10 minutes ago, [DE]Dmitri said:

While we absolutely encourage tests like these to help us determine potential performance issues, you might be better off trying to recreate some more reasonable scenarios. For example, under no circumstances should you ever see 20 Juggernauts in a mission. If there is something wrong when trying to play with just 1 Juggernaut then that is absolutely cause for concern, but Juggernauts were created to be used sparingly. 

While having 200fps in my landing craft, I get only 15fps during infested missions with many eximus units running around. 

Is there a chance of seeing a benchmark tool in Warframe to have reproducible results? Perhaps some kind of diorama that plays the same scene back for anybody.

[[DE]Linkski]

2 hours ago, TRSS said:

While having 200fps in my landing craft, I get only 15fps during infested missions with many eximus units running around. 

Is there a chance of seeing a benchmark tool in Warframe to have reproducible results? Perhaps some kind of diorama that plays the same scene back for anybody.

Unfortunately I am not aware of any current plans to introduce a benchmark tool for Warframe, however your suggestion has been noted.

Hardware specs aside, our best chance of tracking down these issues would be to narrow down the potential culprits.
So for anyone who has noticed this sudden decrease in performance (and has already tried to Verify / Optimize their download cache through the launcher), if you could answer these questions below you'd be a great help:

• How is performance if you host a mission? How is it when you're playing as a client? Is there a noticeable difference?
• Which enemy types would you say result in the most significant decrease in performance? (Infested, Corpus, etc.) 
• Are there any mission types that are worse than others? (Excavation, Survival, Defense, etc.) 
• Do you still notice performance issues if you try playing a PVP mode such as Lunaro? (so we can rule out general connection issues)
• Does your loadout have any impact on performance? If you switch your Warframe or your primary weapon, is it any better?
• Does switching between DirectX 9, 10, or 11 in the launcher show any improvement? Or even enabling/disabling 64-bit mode? Multi-threaded Rendering?
• Does changing any of the in-game settings show any improvement? (Specifically: Display Mode, V-sync, Nvidia PhysX Effects, Texture Memory)
• Do you notice any improvement if you disable Reverb in the Audio Settings? Or change Region / Ping Limit in the Gameplay settings?
• What type of hard drive is Warframe installed on (HDD/SDD)? Have you tried installing the game to another drive? Was there any improvement?

With that said, you may also want to install some form of CPU / GPU monitoring software to keep an eye on your temperatures.
Something along the lines of HWMonitor should do the job, unless you have something else you prefer.

While a lot of the attention has been placed on the GPU, it would be good to know what kind of impact these framerate drops are having on your CPU, and whether or not temperature may have something to do with it.

If you can find a direct pattern that correlates with your CPU or your GPU, then please type something in the in-game chat along the lines of "cpuhigh" or "gpuhigh" and send us your EE.log in a support ticket. Even if you already have a ticket with us, this additional information could be very helpful.

Thanks everyone.

[iDEBz]

This also happens to me with an Intel i7 4790k @4.5Ghz and dual GTX 1070s clocked at ~2Ghz at full boost (which btw Warframe can't trigger due to the very low utilisation of the GPUs) all running of a Samsung 840 EVO SSD. This happens primarily in the Void/areas with a high amount of PBR and when there's a lot of entities i.e. enemies and drops of all sorts. As for hardware problems and bottlenecks i have yet to see any with my system. Any game from the last couple year that i run near fully utilises my GPUs and almost never get abrupt FPS drops, something that is quite common with Warframe. If i had to take a wild guess i'd say the optimisation/the way the Evolution engine renders objects is out of whack. I'm no expert but this seems to be the case with Warframe and with a system like mine this simply shouldn't be the case.

As for settings it doesn't seem to matter what settings i run, whether i'm on max or low settings my FPS seems to not change at all nor does changing the Direct X help either. I've literally tried every possible solution including messing around with NVIDIA control panel settings.

P.S. it seems the SLI scaling of Warframe in my experience is also not great unsurprisingly, i'm not seeing too much of an improvement if at all when running single vs SLI. So maybe Warframe is leveraging the CPU more than the GPU which would explain the GPU usage but hey that's just my thinking.

Edited August 27, 2016 by iDEBz
Additional info

[Teshin_Dax]

its time for some fixes and physX improvement..
Btw: i have a lot of "horsepower" on my System and warframe is NOT a new game like overwatch (which i can run on max without Problems at all) ..

BUT warframe crashed my graphic Driver soo often in the last weeks.. Im not sure if it fixed now .. just saying..
..not good for shadowplay users... (but i did not get a Crash for 3 days.. soo maybe it is fixed)

There is much wrong with warframe itself

Edited August 27, 2016 by WaRsHooTer666

[Nep_Blanc]

9 hours ago, iDEBz said:

This also happens to me with an Intel i7 4790k @4.5Ghz and dual GTX 1070s clocked at ~2Ghz at full boost (which btw Warframe can't trigger due to the very low utilisation of the GPUs) all running of a Samsung 840 EVO SSD. This happens primarily in the Void/areas with a high amount of PBR and when there's a lot of entities i.e. enemies and drops of all sorts. As for hardware problems and bottlenecks i have yet to see any with my system. Any game from the last couple year that i run near fully utilises my GPUs and almost never get abrupt FPS drops, something that is quite common with Warframe. If i had to take a wild guess i'd say the optimisation/the way the Evolution engine renders objects is out of whack. I'm no expert but this seems to be the case with Warframe and with a system like mine this simply shouldn't be the case.

As for settings it doesn't seem to matter what settings i run, whether i'm on max or low settings my FPS seems to not change at all nor does changing the Direct X help either. I've literally tried every possible solution including messing around with NVIDIA control panel settings.

P.S. it seems the SLI scaling of Warframe in my experience is also not great unsurprisingly, i'm not seeing too much of an improvement if at all when running single vs SLI. So maybe Warframe is leveraging the CPU more than the GPU which would explain the GPU usage but hey that's just my thinking.

Like I already noticed in  loads of tests and testing environments,

Warframe Rendering Engine is out of whack and needs a look into it is totally Broken ATM and is not performing as it suppost to.

I had similar performance figures with my laptop a while ago and there it is not playable anymore its just too low and too unstable.
Please note  that my laptop is a "decent" gaming laptop from 2015.

Specs of laptop:
Operating System
    Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
CPU
    Intel Core i7 @ 2.50GHz
    Haswell 22nm Technology
RAM
    16.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 798MHz (11-11-11-28)
Motherboard
    LENOVO Lenovo Y50-70 (U3E1)
Graphics
    Generic PnP Monitor (1920x1080@60Hz)
    Intel HD Graphics 4600 (Lenovo)
    2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 860M (Lenovo) 
    ForceWare version: 372.54
    SLI Disabled
Storage
    698GB Western Digital WDC WD7500BPKX-00HPJT0 (SATA)

 

it should play fine according to warframe reccommended specs but it does not. its just not doable with this laptop as same for my PC.

Going back at my main pc.

furthermore I experience a lot of framedropping and microstutter while playing warframe with and without SLI on.

I used DSR to force warframe to use more GPU but nope it just has same framerate and stunningly Good visuals(NOT).

Now answering the questions [DE]Dmitri asked.

Hosting does impact performance in a small margin it just makes it drop lower and make it lower for a steady rate when there are enemies.

Infested are the worst but other factions can do perfectly the same.

Excavation is apparently one of the buggers I notice it more but other missions are no unique change to the apparent problem.

PVP and lunaro are not my main focus but I second while trying that Framerate can dip too but not as much.

My loadout with nova is known to be visually intensive but it is not the main problem it also appears with other frames.

DX engine changing fom 9/10/11 makes a significant change going up in numbers the highest gives me the best performance(Pretty logical).

Reverb is standard off for me because it bugged me a lot, I did try to use it and it made the game doing the same so this is not the main culprit.

HDD raid 0 array with 4*1 Terabyte, 150Mbytes a sec each totalling out on a max of 600 Mbytes a sec max(Benchmarked).

So IDK about performance issues, I load levels like BF4 and other games like Warframe Faster then my SSD can sometimes so that is a thing to think about.

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion

 

*PS Look at this this is just funny and you see how to almost break the game: https://www.twitch.tv/theroaringlion/v/83459468

 

Edited August 27, 2016 by TheRoaringLion
PS

[SlayerWithin]

Yes. I need some GPU optimization here aswell. I got dual GTX 660's and it doesn't utilize my gpu's. 

PC Specifications
GTX 660 SLI
AMD FX 8320 4.0ghz
16GB RAM

[Nep_Blanc]

I second this I want warframe to get more GPU sided and less CPU bound as it is not at all but sure.

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion

[Kurnuttaja]

Here my performance stats with MSI afterburner in Warfarm:

Now almost 60 fps isnt terrible but I should be getting more, I even have 144hz monitor and 100+ framerate certainly wont hurt. Not to mention I frequently get drops to 50s and 40s especially in crowded void missions, so its really annoying. This needs a fix of some form

gtx 1070, 16gb RAM, i7 3770 3,4ghz

[Nep_Blanc]

7 hours ago, Kurnuttaja said:

Here my performance stats with MSI afterburner in Warfarm:

Now almost 60 fps isnt terrible but I should be getting more, I even have 144hz monitor and 100+ framerate certainly wont hurt. Not to mention I frequently get drops to 50s and 40s especially in crowded void missions, so its really annoying. This needs a fix of some form

gtx 1070, 16gb RAM, i7 3770 3,4ghz

Agree with this having 2 GTX 970ties with overclocking combined more performance as a 1070 is just 0-0 Why? Give me my frames back and lets roll man.
Not to mention that Battlefield 4 runs like 200 Frames + because it is capped at 200 and almost does not drop at all is just amazing.
This all at 1080*1920, and BF4 is a ways more demanding game then Warframe is, so just to consider.

Chao, The Roaring Lion

Edited September 5, 2016 by TheRoaringLion
added reasons 0.0

[Nep_Blanc]

After Last hotfix there is not a change aside from some Particle issues that were not really a problem tho.

I hope they will still fix this tho because it is still prelevant in the game and it needs to be fixed really fast because this annoys more then one type of user for this game.

Not only it affects low ends but also high end users so yea this is a problem.

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion

[Nep_Blanc]

Last hotfixes also not gave me better performance. but I made a video showing how bad it can be sometimes.

its a recorded stream so it is long but you can find the parts pretty fast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI2clWAYBG0

its uploading now but it will be on sooner or later.

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion