Shouldn't the Gammacor be sold by Simaris too?

[Cyborg-Rox]

I know that the Gammacor came out before Symaris, and that you can get its blueprint in a Junction reward, but wouldn't it make more sense for Simaris to sell it instead? It would be perfect! Simaris has all the Cephalon weapons, and Suda has all the upgraded Cephalon weapons, perfect consistency! Because this now out-of-place Gammacor is really bothering me... 

I'm thinking the junction reward would have to be replaced by something else though.

What do you think, Tenno?

[Myscho]

I thought about it too, put Gammacor to Simaris offer and make him have it complete set primary/secondary/melee even Cephalon Suda offer upgraded versions (Synoid Heliocor SOON)

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Cyborg-Rox said:

Simaris has all the Cephalon weapons, and Suda has all the upgraded Cephalon weapons, perfect consistency! Because this now out-of-place Gammacor is really bothering me... 

What, so that Simaris can be garbage and other syndicates can be obsolete?

[Cyborg-Rox]

21 minutes ago, Madho said:

What, so that Simaris can be garbage and other syndicates can be obsolete?

...What? What do you even mean by that? How does one being garbage equal the others being obsolete? DOES NOT COMPUTE

Seriously though, Suda is one of 6 Syndicates you have to choose between, or one of 3 alliances, meaning a lot of people will be locked out of her content, which by the way, is tradeable.

Simaris on the other hand is available to everyone, has a much smaller amount of Standing required due to his lack of 'ranks', and has gotten these weapons before Suda's variants, making them initially standalone and unique.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Cyborg-Rox said:

Seriously though, Suda is one of 6 Syndicates you have to choose between, or one of 3 alliances, meaning a lot of people will be locked out of her content, which by the way, is tradeable.

Simaris on the other hand is available to everyone, has a much smaller amount of Standing required due to his lack of 'ranks', and has gotten these weapons before Suda's variants, making them initially standalone and unique.

Therefore many new players would choose Suda over everything else because they have weapons that are a direct upgrade to those that are already good, like the gammacor and simulor. Having synoid heliocor would simply make other syndicates lackluster because it's a direct upgrade of an ungodly powerful weapon. This favoritism with Suda has gone too far.

[djternan]

7 hours ago, Madho said:

Therefore many new players would choose Suda over everything else because they have weapons that are a direct upgrade to those that are already good, like the gammacor and simulor. Having synoid heliocor would simply make other syndicates lackluster because it's a direct upgrade of an ungodly powerful weapon. This favoritism with Suda has gone too far.

Suda isn't favored.  Regular Gammacor and Simulor aren't very good.  The Synoid Gammacor has a ton of drawbacks for its DPS that make it not worth using.  Synoid Simulor is awesome but balanced when you consider Vaykor Hek and Sancti Tigris.  Heliocor looks like it might be pretty good, though probably not as good as Fragor P.  It would probably be something like the Telos Boltor where it's a sidegrade at best.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, djternan said:

The Synoid Gammacor has a ton of drawbacks for its DPS that make it not worth using. 

More DPS than most secondaries nonetheless. Given the abundance of pistol ammo, this thing is basically a substitution when primary runs out of ammo.

1 hour ago, djternan said:

Synoid Simulor is awesome but balanced when you consider Vaykor Hek and Sancti Tigris.

Are you kidding me? You've got to be kidding me. Both VHek and Sancti Tigris are sidegrades (Hek and Tigris p which is coming soon). Synoid Simulor is a straight upgrade. Also, it's an elemental weapon instead of IPS.

1 hour ago, djternan said:

 Heliocor looks like it might be pretty good, though probably not as good as Fragor P.  It would probably be something like the Telos Boltor where it's a sidegrade at best.

It's a poor man's Fragor p. Given DE's track record, the synoid version would direcly outclass Fragor p.

[Snowbluff]

3 hours ago, Madho said:

Are you kidding me? You've got to be kidding me. Both VHek and Sancti Tigris are sidegrades (Hek and Tigris p which is coming soon). Synoid Simulor is a straight upgrade. Also, it's an elemental weapon instead of IPS.

Ok, first, SSimulor does slightly less damage than the original. It functions better because of a lot of number tweaks that make it usable.

Secondly, the Vek is significanty better than the Hek. Same damage per shot, more ammo capacity. The Tigris P isn't out yet, and the Strigris is a strict upgrade to the Tigris.

If you're going to post an argument, don't be empirically wrong.

[Cyborg-Rox]

12 hours ago, Madho said:

Therefore many new players would choose Suda over everything else because they have weapons that are a direct upgrade to those that are already good, like the gammacor and simulor. Having synoid heliocor would simply make other syndicates lackluster because it's a direct upgrade of an ungodly powerful weapon. This favoritism with Suda has gone too far.

You really think the majority of new players pick Suda just because of their weapons? New players likely pick whatever Syndicate they think looks the coolest, without even looking at the offerings. Therefore, a good amount of them will end up with Suda eventually, as a lot of people start with Hexis.

Also, for new players to get their hands on the Synoid weapons, they would first have to get 500 Circuits, 2 Control Modules, an Orokin Catalyst, a Lex Prime Receiver, Nova Prime Neuropics, 240,000 standing, and 940,000 credits, just to reach the final rank. With Cephalon Simaris, you're already in the final rank! And getting Standing via Daily Synthesis Targets is something new players can do with ease regardless of what levels they play on.

Now, whether you (still) disagree with this or not doesn't really matter. Your issue is in regard to something that's already the case for 2/3 weapons, and Gammacor is arguably the closest to its Synoid counterpart in terms of overall usefulness. You're arguing that this shouldn't be done, even though it's already 66% done (well, it will be, when the inevitable Synoid Heliocor comes around).

Now just take one second and ignore the mechanics and stats for the weapons. Ignore that, it has nothing to do with this topic actually. Think about this one word: Consistency. That... is the point of this topic. These Cephalon weapons are so close to being perfectly consistent, but this one difference screws it all up. Can't you take your eyes off the stats for one moment and just try to see that? See the importance of that?

[Snowbluff]

5 minutes ago, Cyborg-Rox said:

Now just take one second and ignore the mechanics and stats for the weapons. Ignore that, it has nothing to do with this topic actually. Think about this one word: Consistency. That... is the point of this topic. These Cephalon weapons are so close to being perfectly consistent, but this one difference screws it all up. Can't you take your eyes off the stats for one moment and just try to see that? See the importance of that?

It's a good point, but doesn't a hammer just seem so... normal? o.0

[Cyborg-Rox]

Just now, Snowbluff said:

It's a good point, but doesn't a hammer just seem so... normal? o.0

It's a hammer that scans... a scammer :>

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Snowbluff said:

Ok, first, SSimulor does slightly less damage than the original. It functions better because of a lot of number tweaks that make it usable.

And now it's one of the most overused weapons in the entire game.

13 minutes ago, Snowbluff said:

Secondly, the Vek is significanty better than the Hek. Same damage per shot, more ammo capacity 

If you're going to post an argument, don't be empirically wrong.

I lol'd. 

Dump on an augment and the Hek deals more damage with multishot, a stat that most dps mods cannot compensate for.

Leaving Sancti Tigris alone because it deserves to be good. At least until the prime version drops in, and it'll probably end up like the Telos Boltor.

15 minutes ago, Cyborg-Rox said:

Also, for new players to get their hands on the Synoid weapons, they would first have to get 500 Circuits, 2 Control Modules, an Orokin Catalyst, a Lex Prime Receiver, Nova Prime Neuropics, 240,000 standing, and 940,000 credits, just to reach the final rank. With Cephalon Simaris, you're already in the final rank! And getting Standing via Daily Synthesis Targets is something new players can do with ease regardless of what levels they play on.

In a game that demands investment to get end game gear, new players are more likely to invest in Suda, passively gaining standing, rather than doing tedious scan runs.

19 minutes ago, Cyborg-Rox said:

Now just take one second and ignore the mechanics and stats for the weapons. Ignore that, it has nothing to do with this topic actually. Think about this one word: Consistency. That... is the point of this topic. These Cephalon weapons are so close to being perfectly consistent, but this one difference screws it all up. Can't you take your eyes off the stats for one moment and just try to see that? See the importance of that?

No.

This is precisely how you get powercreep, by demanding an upgraded version of what is already incredibly powerful. 

[Cyborg-Rox]

9 minutes ago, Madho said:

No.

This is precisely how you get powercreep, by demanding an upgraded version of what is already incredibly powerful. 

What... That's not what I said at all. The Gammacor is weaker than the Synoid Gammacor.

You know what, screw it, you're clearly not being very rational, and you've de-railed this topic long enough. 

If you go on for much longer I'm gonna request a comment sweep.

[Snowbluff]

17 minutes ago, Madho said:

Dump on an augment and the Hek deals more damage with multishot, a stat that most dps mods cannot compensate for.

http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Vaykor_Hek/t_30_42202200_165-4-3-167-3-3-168-6-5-171-0-5-178-1-5-186-7-5-480-5-10-482-2-10_171-6-178-8-482-7-167-9-165-5-480-7-168-9-186-9/en/2-0-81/88048/0

http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Hek/t_30_03302200_165-3-3-167-0-3-170-2-5-178-4-5-186-7-5-365-6-3-453-1-4-482-5-10_167-9-453-5-170-6-165-9-178-8-482-7-365-7-186-9/en/2-0-31/102497/0

That is too say, the Vek has a good critical stat, an untapped multiplier on the Hek. This is without Arcane Avenge or a Kavak giving more crit giving an even huger advantage.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Snowbluff

[Epicagemo]

If I were a dev, id make all the gammacor and simulor have a scan mechanic as well as being sold from simaris 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Cyborg-Rox said:

What... That's not what I said at all. The Gammacor is weaker than the Synoid Gammacor .

I mean, we probably should not establish a connection between Simaris and Suda in such an obvious way. The powercreep I was pointing to would be the Synoid Heliocor. If we were to have a consistency, then Suda's weapons will have to be sidegrades or less of an upgrade because it would directly outclass the Simaris version. I could care less about the Gammacor being an offering, it's just that we should not give new players the impression of Simaris weapons being inferior to Suda weapons.

10 hours ago, Snowbluff said:

 

 

I feel honored that you have to use a 4 second video to shout an insult at me. So original. 

In case you haven't noticed, both builds are remotely different, with the Hek loading less on pure dps mods and one mod unmaxed. More pellets would mean a better chance to proc crit and status with more projectiles, which in turn results in more damage. Build the Hek up for crit and it can proc enough for a crit or status proc. Do not underestimate crit on weapons that can fire vast amounts of projectiles at once. It gives a second chance for crits to happen.

http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Hek/t_30_22222223_165-6-3-167-0-3-178-1-5-186-4-5-190-3-5-365-5-3-453-7-5-482-2-10_167-5-178-8-482-7-190-5-186-5-365-4-165-5-453-6/en/2-0-31

Balanced build with 70% status chance.

Edited July 30, 2016 by Guest

[Snowbluff]

3 hours ago, Madho said:

I feel honored that you have to use a 4 second video to shout an insult at me. So original. 

In case you haven't noticed, both builds are remotely different, with the Hek loading less on pure dps mods and one mod unmaxed. More pellets would mean a better chance to proc crit and status with more projectiles, which in turn results in more damage. Build the Hek up for crit and it can proc enough for a crit or status proc. Do not underestimate crit on weapons that can fire vast amounts of projectiles at once. It gives a second chance for crits to happen.

http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Hek/t_30_22222223_165-6-3-167-0-3-178-1-5-186-4-5-190-3-5-365-5-3-453-7-5-482-2-10_167-5-178-8-482-7-190-5-186-5-365-4-165-5-453-6/en/2-0-31

Balanced build with 70% status chance.

Didn't need the video to insult you; it made me feel better about engaging in this already long over debate.

Crit is already calculated in the damage. It can only be expressed as a mathematical multiplier. It's higher on the Vek, allowing for an additional multiplier to the damage. Shotguns already have a good multishot mod (120%), so stacking it with the 200% from the syndicate mod actually doesn't triple the damage, just doubles it. If you look at the number of the side, you get more damage per shot than your build pretty easily with the Vek. Faster fire rate builds with the higher magazine capacity of the Vek also can do status, which is basically a waste on status chances <100% on shotguns. Your build doesn't have punchtrough, which is just painful for a slow firing weapon like the Hek against a crowd.

Sorry about the builds not being close. I tried to load up builds with identical mods aside from critical mods on the Vek, but the site apparently didn't link them correctly.  The result is the same, with the damage per shot being the same but with the Vek having substantially better DPS. 

Edited July 30, 2016 by Snowbluff

[Tesseract7777]

Gammacor should be sold by Simaris and should, as others have said, scan as should the Simulor you get from him. 

And Gammacor shouldn't be necessary to build Heliocor. 

Simaris should get his own proc. 

Maybe a utility proc. The aoe stuns any daily synthesis target within range for a while -- kind of like an extended kinetic siphon trap. And the buff would be like having enemy sense in the mini map and "scanner vision" like you had a codex or synthesis scanner, for the duration of the procs buff.