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Heliocor Scanning Mechanic / Rightfully Speculated Synoid Heliocor


Shawn_Carter
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(Mistakenly posted in General Discussion) 

Okay, after the release of the Heliocor today, I think all of us Tenno have come to the conclusion that there will be a synoid version coming within the next 1-3 weeks..(coming with syndicate melees, synoid simulor came out after the simulor was released as well)

So..

I've come up with an incentive to use the simaris version rather than the synoid version. 

Make it so that the synoid version does not come with the mechanic of scanning enemies. Simaris' whole "thing" is knowledge, and yes I know Cephalon Suda is very similar in that sense, but we all know by now that Simaris is very much more involved in obtaining knowledge.. We haven't seen ANY involvement with Cephalon Suda and knowledge other than the syndicate description. And OBVIOUSLY the incentive to use the synoid version of the Heliocor would be the differed / increased stats and of course (this alone is an incentive) the syndicate proc. I'd hate to get this weapon, and have the synoid version come out weeks after, and it never sees the light of day again. I like the mechanic, it makes me want to finish my codex. Please let's reduce power creep little by little. 

User by the name of Praxxor suggested this in the original post:

"OR make the Synoid version a status weapon with Magnetic damage and let it have the scanning mechanic, giving you a choice of a crit impact weapon or a status elemental. No power creep, just variety."

TL;DR: Make it so the Synoid Heliocor does not have the scanning mechanic, as it is incentive to use the base version from simaris.

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so would you guys like to see a synoid version of the helicor synoid helicor because when the normal simulor came out they made it into a synoid version so would you guys like to see the helicor be the melee weapon for cephalon suda?

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I think what would truly influence others to use both the Heliocor in tandem with the proposed Synoid version would be if all targets that have been successfully scanned and are completed in a players codex, would grant the "Synoid Heliocor" a buff towards that specific target/enemy.  Possibly a flat damage percentage increase.

Bringing this type of synergy would be something that would give many players the drive to earn these two weapons and complete as much of their codex as possible to simply inflict the most damage per swing to their adversary.

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2 minutes ago, DoomzDayDan said:

I think what would truly influence others to use both the Heliocor in tandem with the proposed Synoid version would be if all targets that have been successfully scanned and are completed in a players codex, would grant the "Synoid Heliocor" a buff towards that specific target/enemy.  Possibly a flat damage percentage increase.

Bringing this type of synergy would be something that would give many players the drive to earn these two weapons and complete as much of their codex as possible to simply inflict the most damage per swing to their adversary.

As if the Heliocor needed a damage bonus with redcrit power and 1k normal hits.

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2 minutes ago, DoomzDayDan said:

I think what would truly influence others to use both the Heliocor in tandem with the proposed Synoid version would be if all targets that have been successfully scanned and are completed in a players codex, would grant the "Synoid Heliocor" a buff towards that specific target/enemy.  Possibly a flat damage percentage increase.

Bringing this type of synergy would be something that would give many players the drive to earn these two weapons and complete as much of their codex as possible to simply inflict the most damage per swing to their adversary.

From what I'm understanding, from what you're saying, you use the base Heliocor to gather scans for enemies, and the enemies you scan with the Heliocor will then grant a percentage based damage increase for the Synoid variant?

If this is what you're saying, then it wouldn't really solve the problem of going BACK to the base version as you would essentially render it useless compared to the Synoid variant, (in fact.. you would probably render all hammers useless in terms of flat damage numbers as the damage would be insane on the Synoid variant) and I would like to see the Heliocor have a use, like the one I proposed in the original post. It's an interesting idea though, which I would not have thought of, (again, if that's what you meant from what I interpreted). Thank you for your feedback.

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I simply think it would be an interesting game mechanic.  The original could be less than stellar, but once you have unlocked the hammer's true potential through the codex of course; it would be one of the most powerful melee weapons in the game, and rightfully so!  

The reasoning is simply this: TIME.

You would/will/have spent an incredible amount of time unlocking all the various enemy threats.  Why shouldn't you be able to deal the most damage by knowing their weak points?

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Well they could always just tear the dmg down to 135, the speed to 0.8, boost the crit chance to 30% and status to 5% to be somewhere close to the fragor prime. The point of the syndicate weapons is to make them better than the original and loosing the scanning mechanic would just be the worst thing you could do since it is the only thing that makes this weapon special. DE probably knows how that this weapon is somewhat of a power creep but I think that the intention of it was to make a melee weapon that can be tied to the cephalons since there was no before and to make it clear that there are enough weapons to make syndicate melees appear. And don't forget that it is much harder to get syndicate weapons than Simaris weapons. And for the lore part, both of the cephalons are all about knowlage one more than the other but Simaris is supposed to be the beginner and Suda are supposed to be the ones that continue the job (something like this). If The War Within brings syndicate melee weapons it would make sense why DE made this weapon. As I said before, this weapon is made to be upgraded, it is made to have is know that something big is coming. 

You know what kind of weapons ninjas like the most. Hammers. It is space so it works, don't doubt space 

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4 minutes ago, DoomzDayDan said:

I simply think it would be an interesting game mechanic.  The original could be less than stellar, but once you have unlocked the hammer's true potential through the codex of course; it would be one of the most powerful melee weapons in the game, and rightfully so!  

The reasoning is simply this: TIME.

You would/will/have spent an incredible amount of time unlocking all the various enemy threats.  Why shouldn't you be able to deal the most damage by knowing their weak points?

True with all points you've made here, but you've got to think about the community outrage when everyone screams "power-creep" (they're already going to do that when the Synoid Heliocor gets released which is why im trying to suggest to mitigate that). With your proposal you're essentially making ONE weapon everyone strives for, making ONE weapon out of the 200 or 300 something weapons available. This ONE weapon (the Synoid Heliocor) would become the old Synoid gammacor doing insane amounts of damage. It's just anticlimactic as well as there isn't crazy mind-blowing lore tied behind gaining the most powerful melee (maybe even all weapons, again, judging by the proposal you made) in the game.

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I mean, the Gammacor came out right alongside the syndicate secondaries, and when the Simulor came out, it was barely two months before the syndicate primaries. I think the argument of whether we want Synoid Heliocor or not is moot next to the idea that we might actually be getting syndicate melee in the near future.

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1 minute ago, Shawn_Carter said:

True with all points you've made here, but you've got to think about the community outrage when everyone screams "power-creep" (they're already going to do that when the Synoid Heliocor gets released which is why im trying to suggest to mitigate that). With your proposal you're essentially making ONE weapon everyone strives for, making ONE weapon out of the 200 or 300 something weapons available. This ONE weapon (the Synoid Heliocor) would become the old Synoid gammacor doing insane amounts of damage. It's just anticlimactic as well as there isn't crazy mind-blowing lore tied behind gaining the most powerful melee (maybe even all weapons, again, judging by the proposal you made) in the game.

Was just an idea I had when I initially heard about the Heliocor scanning capability and then your post regarding its Syndicate Brother.  Also, I was responding to bubbaneli's reply whilst yours was incoming.  

I believe that time spent in this game should provide you with winning/superior combinations of Warframes, weapons etc.  I also think it would all tie in nicely with the codex being used for something more than gleaning fragments of lore from a hidden spot on a picture.

You are absolutely correct in thinking that it would be THE most damaging weapon per swing.  However there are always ways to balance things like this.  

As far as I'm concerned a weapon of THIS variety would feel much more like it was EARNED as opposed to having RNGesus smile upon you and being granted that Nikana P BP or the Stalker showing up and bowing before you granting you War.

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1 hour ago, Shawn_Carter said:

Make it so the Synoid Heliocor does not have the scanning mechanic, as it is incentive to use the base version from simaris.

Also, I am agreeing with you in that the Synoid version should NOT possess the scanning ability so like I previously said, they would work in tandem until the base Heliocor simply outlives its usefulness until a new enemy is introduced of course.  

I mean the Syndicate versions literally are upgraded versions of the originals, right?

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2 hours ago, Teloch said:

Nah. 

The regular heliocor is powercreeped enough (same conditional tier as fragor p and war). The syndicate version would probably become the new melee meta

Wouldn't be so sure about that one.

Steel Meridian has had the strongest weapon every time Syndicate weapons have been given out. Given their other entries they're probably looking at Vaykor Jat Kittag, and a crit/status upgrade on that thing is going to make it a monster.

A Synoid Heliocor also has to compete with the ungodly might of the Telos Boltace.*

*Statement may contain traces of sarcasm.

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1 hour ago, LuckyCharm said:

>.> Change the heliocor to scan for simaris affinity scans, and the synoid to scan for codex. Problem fixed

That won't fix the problem, since scans with the synthesis scanner count as codex scans, by they give simeris rep instead of affinity. And the problem being discussed is the damage of the heloicor and the anticipated damage of the synoid version.

Edited by Elevator9
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Wishful thinking can be dangerous, because you are part right on your suspicion, but some time everyone of our own opinion will not agree.

Spoiler

Logic regular Heliocor < Synoid Helicor. If DE do what they want or plan accordingly, then yes the weapons should be good. But if you REALLY want to see "variety", it might happen with that DE will have to remold the stats of the majority of Syndicate weapons, and I HOPE it a buff on the Secondary.

Seem like quite the work, but when will you get there? I don't think everyone of us will be satisfy 100% that easily.

Proof, I don't use Sancti Tigris, it a great if not good decent weapon for high game, reason being, I'm not rolling with New Loka at this time.

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