The Stalker is Teshin and here's why - A theory with many a possible spoiler. Read at your own risk.

[xXx_mtv_xXx]

This is an interesting and amusing theory... which falls flat on its face because the Stalker didn't even know who was talking to him during the first cutscene of Second Dream. 

Stalker: "Who?"

Huehue: "me le destroya bla bla"

[ObviousLee]

4 minutes ago, xXx_mtv_xXx said:

This is an interesting and amusing theory... which falls flat on its face because the Stalker didn't even know who was talking to him during the first cutscene of Second Dream. 

Stalker: "Who?"

Huehue: "me le destroya bla bla"

faking ignorance is a common tactic in preserving ones possible secret identity.

Edited August 1, 2016 by ObviousLee

[xXx_mtv_xXx]

Just now, ObviousLee said:

the secret of the reservoir drove the stalker mad. not going there. he was already looney-tunes long before that. he has been, for a long time.

Don't get me wrong, you've got a great imagination and your writing skills are good too, but writing off a major incosistency like that to simple dillusion on the Stalker's behalf is sort of flying in the face of your entire theory. You claim that Teshin is a genius who managed to outsmart all the Tenno, and yet you're saying that the Stalker he controls is mad - so therefore Teshin is also a nutcase? Come on...

[ObviousLee]

Just now, xXx_mtv_xXx said:

Don't get me wrong, you've got a great imagination and your writing skills are good too, but writing off a major incosistency like that to simple dillusion on the Stalker's behalf is sort of flying in the face of your entire theory. You claim that Teshin is a genius who managed to outsmart all the Tenno, and yet you're saying that the Stalker he controls is mad - so therefore Teshin is also a nutcase? Come on...

i misread what you typed and edited my quoted post.

[xXx_mtv_xXx]

4 minutes ago, ObviousLee said:

i misread what you typed and edited my quoted post.

OK so if he's not mad then he's just pretending? :D 

Teshin is illuminati confirmed D:

[DeFragMe]

4 minutes ago, xXx_mtv_xXx said:

OK so if he's not mad then he's just pretending? :D 

Teshin is illuminati confirmed D:

and also, the "mad" part was told bei the Lotus. We dont know what a sentient actually would descrieb as "mad". Might be the case that he just went on a short rampage after getting aflicted with the truth and later on calmed down, cutting ties temporaly with the lotus, who knows.

 

in the end he could also be acting on what he belives is the right thing, like we believe in the fact that a sentient knows what is the best for the Sol System.

 

now wich of those would you really call mad?

Edited August 1, 2016 by DeFragMe
darn smartphone cutter , it did it twize D:

[xXx_mtv_xXx]

well he sure seemed mad when he had the chance to kill all the operators and just blew it for no apparent reason, but then again DE didn't even explain what happened to the other operators in the reservoir, so they're pretty mad too haha plus how the heck did the Moon even go back from the Void into Origin and open up to Sentients? I totally missed that part XD and those voices of random people talking about golems was creepy too, I'm sure someone wrote that when he was high XDDD

Edited August 1, 2016 by xXx_mtv_xXx

[PookieNumnums]

datamined picture of stalkers operator 

 

 

sarcasm pending

[DeFragMe]

2 hours ago, ObviousLee said:

considering i've seen no pod and only have the tenno pods to go off of and not the alleged guardian pods, i really can't argue that point lol.

well, there also is no fact given that the orokin never managed to make a portable variation...

 

PS: how the heck did i miss your post so far up...

[arch111]

Can you please clarify how Teshin can use a warframe as a grown man.

As far as we know, warframes were made to channel void. They can only be used by Tenno, as far as we know.

Yes, infested used Mesa and this in turn hints of Infestation=warframe=void but that's a different topic. Teshin is human though.

So how is he supposed to use a warframe?  We have no record or hints at Orokin transference of surrogates. The soldier in Mag Prime Codex makes that clear; Tenno were ghosts untill they were deployed in Tau.

 

[DeFragMe]

9 minutes ago, arch111 said:

Yes, infested used Mesa and this in turn hints of Infestation=warframe=void but that's a different topic. Teshin is human though

i dont really remember anywhere standing that he is "Human". Or i just missed it.

[main_antagonist]

On 31/07/2016 at 4:29 PM, DeFragMe said:

But, DE said in the end that we will never see a warframe completly independend from a tenno.

chroma quest anybody? :O it was being controlled all along Illuminati confirmed

[DeFragMe]

1 minute ago, main_antagonist said:

chroma quest anybody? :O it was being controlled all along Illuminati confirmed

might be, might be.... or it was the infested using him...we are fighting the infested in the mission afterall.

[xXx_mtv_xXx]

20 minutes ago, arch111 said:

Can you please clarify how Teshin can use a warframe as a grown man.

As far as we know, warframes were made to channel void. They can only be used by Tenno, as far as we know.

Yes, infested used Mesa and this in turn hints of Infestation=warframe=void but that's a different topic. Teshin is human though.

So how is he supposed to use a warframe?  We have no record or hints at Orokin transference of surrogates. The soldier in Mag Prime Codex makes that clear; Tenno were ghosts untill they were deployed in Tau.

 

But what if he was one of those kids who was isolated and then mutated and grew up D: 

But what if Teshin is not kill? :D

[main_antagonist]

13 minutes ago, DeFragMe said:

might be, might be.... or it was the infested using him...we are fighting the infested in the mission afterall.

I wasn't so sure I got the feeling it was a sentient skull / artefact that we defended in the chroma quest I still want to know what that skull was it's too large to fit any of the sentients we have encountered in the game, yet the shape is similar :/ ...

[DeFragMe]

3 minutes ago, main_antagonist said:

I wasn't so sure I got the feeling it was a sentient skull / artefact that we defended in the chroma quest I still want to know what that skull was it's too large to fit any of the sentients we have encountered in the game, yet the shape is similar :/ ...

i more thought that the infested where it, simple because you saw chrome, trying to fight, but hardly even doing somethng. Like he was just looking around, trying to find out what is going on....

 

at least that what it looked to me the few months back when chrome was first released.... maybe they changed that, who knows?

[arch111]

Chroma was described by Lotus as a super warframe,  and that we should learn to use it in preparation for the new enemy.

I guess that was sentient adaptation? But do Chroma even have an edge against Sentients? 

[DeFragMe]

4 minutes ago, arch111 said:

Chroma was described by Lotus as a super warframe,  and that we should learn to use it in preparation for the new enemy.

I guess that was sentient adaptation? But do Chroma even have an edge against Sentients? 

well, the absoulte edge of Chroma against the sentient would be the fact that he can handle multiple elements on will.... sadly in WF game mechanic you cant do that and have to chose your element before hand.

Sentient would have a hard time to adapt to changing elements.

[main_antagonist]

5 minutes ago, arch111 said:

Chroma was described by Lotus as a super warframe,  and that we should learn to use it in preparation for the new enemy.

I guess that was sentient adaptation? But do Chroma even have an edge against Sentients? 

He sure does if you know how to build him right :D

[(PSN)CrispyNipill]

>says spoiler after revealing the spoiler in the title

[Kialandi]

15 hours ago, ObviousLee said:

rewatch both war within trailers. you'll see that they aren't the same room.

You should rewatch them. Or atleast you should look at the pictures I posted. 

It is the same room. Twin Queens are looking towards the point where Teshin is standing. When Nyx enters the room she is looking towards the Twin Queens.

1) SAME LIGHTS - exactly the same lights

2) SAME DOOR - metal thingy on both sides, shape of the door

3) TUBES (?)

[arch111]

14 minutes ago, xXx_mtv_xXx said:

But what if he was one of those kids who was isolated and then mutated and grew up D: 

But what if Teshin is not kill? :D

You mean that some of the Zariman crew grew up? That would mean some were not prone to "power outbursts" that scared and killed.

But in the years that the Zariman was in the Void, only children were spared. I have a hunch because of Technocyte modifications that allowed only the children to survive; the Technocyte adapted to the Void Energy Radiation and kept them alive and even used it wich gave the children their powers.

So no, I think no survivors on Zariman were normal. They were all failures and rejects.

[BornWithTeeth]

9 hours ago, ObviousLee said:

thank you for fishing this up. i do appreciate it very much. i'll address it now.

1. Allow me to clarify, as it'll likely be the first time it's mentioned in this thread, but teshin being the stalker, was the end result in my research, not the intended person i wished to assign. he was literally an afterthought while i was researching on if there was a fundamental difference between the stalker who referred to himself as a guardian as well as others, and the tenno, as the tenno are the only known operators of warframes, and yet stalker is operating one. Teshin only occurred to me when i remembered his presence in the trailer and went to watch it again and noticed the orokin tech in a spot that the operator clearly expected to by grineer, with that void pool in the center of it which is identical to the one in the reservoir. that is what lead me to the conclusion that he is the stalker, after taking his role in the conclave into account with his ability to freely interact with his intended targets. if he's hijacking somatic link frequencies to track them and hunt them, then the relay where, lore-wise, lots of tenno come and go to interact with teshin as well as other people who run stations in the relay. but remember, teshin is not always in the relay, he like others, logically go to quarters of their own, or other places.

remember, teshin was "with you" when you raided hunhows tomb. Teshin was not at his station in the relay, he was in an orokin tech filled room that was inside grineer control zones, hence why the tenno was expecting the interior to be grineer.

I am willing to concede that i may very well be incorrect about his desired targets being weak and it just being a general consensus that he attacks weakened players.

2. you say that the stalker is less of a threat and yes, mechanically he is in relation to actual play. Lore wise, that isn't the case. you're forgetting/haven't refreshed the details by watching the quest recently but i'll lay it out for you. you track the stalker to the moon, fight against him and make it to the reservoir, where he has you dead to rights and should kill you.    watch at 25:10. The stalker makes the hand motion first, and the operator imitates it, not the other way around. So, in this moment, the stalker has a moment of doubt, and vanishes.;

fast forward to 29:57-31:35 shows the interaction between the stalker and your operator upon him fighting you tooth and nail to keep you from that chair and kill you. which, he starts doing so. in this scene, the stalker has won. you are in the process of being choked to death. that means, hunhows augmentation, worked. the stalker was able to do what he'd ben unable to for so very very long, which is kill the tenno which is exactly what he was doing. what stopped him, was your warframe operating of its own accord, and breaking hunhow's vessel for his mind, which was empowering the stalker. again, had your warframe not acted on it's own, you would have died. stalker would have won, thats literally the only thing that kept you from dying in that moment, as you were ultimately helpless. 

 

i feel i answered all points adequately with these bits. so, feel free to read and observe and respond.

 

 

I'm sorry, but I don't agree that you have addressed all of those points.

 

Like I said, the whole train of logic which goes like this:

- Guardians are a class of weaker 'Tenno'.

--> Stalker is a Guardian and is therefore weaker than Tenno. He must attack them only when they are weak.

----> Stalker went to Hunhow to get upgrades so he could fight Tenno more effectively.

------> This was masterminded by Teshin, who is secretly the Stalker.

 

That entire chain of assumptions is largely unsupported.

- 'Guardians' as a thing are mentioned once and once only in the entire game and its entire lore. They are not mentioned at all in the Second Dream, by anyone. (We have a hell of a lot more information about the Dax, from all sources.) There is precisely no evidence in the lore to support the assertion that what this term 'Guardian' means is an entire class of Void warriors with broader but weaker powers.

- Stalker identifies himself as a Guardian, and says that he is 'low' compared to the Tenno. That is a fact from his Codex, but it remains in isolation, as quite literally nothing else in the game, from any source, connects to this piece of information about 'Guardians'. We simply do not have enough information to make any kind of hard, informed guess as to what the 'Guardians' are other than some branch of the Orokin military/armed forces.

- Stalker does not only attack weaker Warframes, he brought a Warframe's head as a gift for Hunhow, and nothing in that scene suggests that Stalker has trouble defeating Warframes. What Hunhow points out is that killing Warframes is not achieving the goal of killing Tenno. Additionally, the upgrades given to the Stalker do not make him more effective at defeating Warframes. They slow him down and make him a tank, at the cost of taking away his deadly ninja-assassin status. There's actually a different theory about that, to be honest. I'll stick that in a spoiler box at the bottom of the post, look for it.

 

 

Right. Also, I keep mentioning how the scene at The Reservoir makes no sense if Teshin is the Stalker, and you keep responding by changing the subject to the confrontation in The Orbiter. Let's keep strictly to the topic of the events at the Reservoir, without saying "Yes, but the Stalker was startled by the Warframe moving on its own." That happened in the Orbiter. I am very, very much talking about the fact that Stalker's response to seeing the Operator was to sheathe his weapon and go into a contemplative fugue, making the 'Transference is happening' gesture. 

 

I say again, nice and clear: Nothing stopped the Stalker from attacking at the Reservoir other than his own actions. The Warframe did not intervene. The Operator did not fight him off. The Lotus did not ask him nicely to stop. The Stalker saw the Operator, stopped attacking, and went into a brief trance making a gesture which we've seen [described] before, while the Operator did the same.

 

I describe that gesture (looking one's hands, turning them over, going silent and inactive) as the symbol for 'Transference is taking effect' because of a clue from the Rhino Prime Codex. That Codex entry describes the first recorded instance of Transference, where a rampaging warbeast enters the chamber where the Tenno are kept. The beast stops attacking, goes silent, and looks at its hands.

The Operator and Stalker share that same moment of "I am dreaming and awake" at the Reservoir. It's a moment which makes perfect sense if the Stalker is either an Operator in denial, or a dead Operator permanently uploaded into a Warframe.
               However...."Teshin is the Stalker, and is a cool, careful psychopath with a long term plan to kill the Tenno using the Stalker 'frame," and "The Stalker's response to seeing the Operator emerge from the Transference pod was to sheathe his weapon and go into a fugue making the waking dream gesture."
                              These two things cannot be easily reconciled. We know for a fact that one of them is true. We saw the Stalker stop attacking, put away the sword, and share the momentary trance with the Operator. Therefore, it is the first statement (that Teshin is the Stalker) which must be made to account for the events of the second statement (that the Stalker stopped attacking and shared the gesture and trance with the Operator), and not the other way around. Speculation must account for observed fact. Observed fact must not be disregarded in favour of speculation.

 

 

That scene at the Reservoir is not easily reconciled with the idea that Teshin is a cold and rational murderer who knows what he's doing and has a plan. It just is not. The only way to reconcile it is to modify the initial statement: "Teshin is the Stalker and he doesn't consciously know it. Seeing the Operator made him realise that he was dreaming."

 

 

So, that kinda leaves two major holes in your theory:

1. The whole 'Guardians' thing is unsupported, and potentially not relevant at all. It's not about Stalker's ability to fight Warframes effectively, and it never was.

2. If Teshin/the Stalker is a cool mastermind with a long plan who knows exact who he is and what he's doing, then the scene at the Reservoir makes absolutely no sense whatsoever at all. That may be the most significant thing that we have ever seen the Stalker do, in terms of character information. The Stalker stopped attacking, put away his weapon, and had a moment at the Reservoir which could effectively be subtitled [Steve Sinclair breaks the fourth wall and punches the player in the face, yells "The Stalker is in denial! He's more like you than he has ever admitted!"]

 

The first point removes the argument that Teshin/Stalker needed Hunhow's upgrades to make him better able to fight Warframes. Then, in order for the theory (Teshin is the Stalker and has a long term plan to kill us) to make sense, it is necessary to disregard that scene at the Reservoir and say that it is not an insight into who and what the Stalker is.

 

So, your theory is neat, but it has several gaping holes in it, and I cannot agree that it all somehow makes perfect sense. 

 

The remaining bits of evidence are individually solid, but hard to convincingly stitch together, at least in my eyes.

 

 

Also, a personal speculation. Note! 'Speculation'. Not hard theory.

I suspect that Hunhow's gift, the War sword and the Pakal armour, is a nice neat bundle which unfolds into a trap. The Stalker willingly accepted Sentient modifications, and carried a communications link/avatar of Hunhow. If you rewatch the Second Dream cinematics and compare the confrontation with Stalker at the Reservoir to the later confrontation with Stalker inside the Orbiter, there's a minor detail which might be either a visual glitch, or a subtle clue to something.

At the Reservoir, Stalker stops attacking, puts away the sword, etc. Hunhow mocks his lack of resolve. The energy pattern in the Pakal armour is blue.
In the Orbiter, the Stalker attacks without hesitation of his own, while Hunhow goads him onward. The energy pattern in the Pakal armour is red-orange.

Now, I dunno. Maybe it's a visual glitch in the cinematic. Maybe it's mood armour, and displays the Stalker's intentions!

I think it might also be a hint that Hunhow can now exert influence over the Stalker, through the armour which he foolishly accepted.

 

Just a thought, and one which I'm not going to push for until we have more information.

[Czygen]

Too much tinfoil I say >.<

[DeFragMe]

6 minutes ago, Czygen said:

Too much tinfoil I say >.<

there never is enough D: